You ppl should watch this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1565744367577847884
It also explains about that the aliens are devils
Its worth watching it

It's usually for the best.



Well I couldn't tell that considering you're always right behind her clapping your hands at whatever she says. Still, how does her being your friend make it alright for her to post SPAM, huh?



You're not wrong. That's the whole point of this thread. Notice how in her very first thread she was nice and polite and she didn't get very far, so she comes in with guns a blazing to wake the dead and get something going on so she could mention her book. Doesn't take a genius to work it out.



Exactly. SPAM.

Well I don't care what most of you guys think, I agree with Sasa's hypothesis, to me it makes sense, allow me to bring a few relevant examples:

1) Recently I have debated the fact there where savior like figures before the time of Jesus Christ, BUT, these "saviors" are almost opposite in ways of Christ, most of them were born on the Winter Solstice, Jesus was not born during this time, he was born around the estimated time of the seasons of Spring and Summer, (I would assume that he could have been born on the Summer Solstice, my birthday of course. ) Another thing is that these saviors have animal-like companions, Jesus is not associated with any animals in the likeness as he "depended on them" he was metaphorically referred to as the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah, but these guys are a part of a sect actually involving holy rituals concerning their animal companions! And, another fact, is that these earlier figures contradict not what Jesus said only but what others have said otherwise! Mithra says wine is evil, Dionysus, the son of Zeus, is the god of whine! His symbol is the serpent (and we all know who that represents) it's all clear made deception!

2) We hardily have any evidence that Moses led the slaves out of Egypt, why is this relevant? Because after the slaves left, the Egyptians lacked construction, and the empire quickly died out hereafter, now, archealogists say that the pyramids could not have been built by such a small amount of slave workers, so excluding the story of Moses (remember that the scripture was written by crazy people ) some of them go the extreme claim stating that we built the pyramids with the help of extra-terrasterials.

The world is heading down a path of both stupidity, blindness, ignorance, and deception.

I didn't say bugger all about her hypothesis. I just think she's spamming.

The term alien (in this case) means extra-terrestrial. Humans are terrestrial, so no, humans aren't aliens.

The problem is not "Modern Christians". The problem is the attitude of those like you. As soon as someone presents a written part of the Book which "Modern Science" seems to be finding more factual every time they try to dispute it; you are too quick to even consider what it is trying to tell you. I would bother you and cynics like you to use some reason, and really take a look at this explanation. I presented a thread similar to this one,
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...mp;hl=unpopular
and like it or not, it is the most reasonable explanation for this phenomenon.

Are you referring to the Bible? If you are, how is modern science finding it to be 'more factual'? If anything, from what I've seen, science appears to be conflicting with more and more things in the bible. The creation of the universe, the Earth, evolution, the story of Noah and the flood and many more things in the bible could not be further from the currently accepted scientific theories.

Yes, I am referring to the Bible. How would you describe the "Dark Matter", which science cannot explain? That's just one question that is answered in the Bible. There are many, many more. How is science disproving Creation? I would have to say that the Big Bang backs up creation.

but the theory of evolution is disproving creation

That does not mean that the answer in the bible is the right one. As you've said, science can not explain it yet, so you can not establish whether the biblical answer is indeed true or not, can you?



It does neither.

Really? Read this:

Missing Origin: The big bang theory assumes an original concentration of energy. Where did this energy come from? Astronomers sometimes speak of an origin from a "quantum mechanical fluctuation within a vacuum." However, in the big bang theory, no vacuum existed before the explosion. Actually there is no consistent secular origin theory, since every idea is based on preexisting matter or energy.
Missing Fuse: What ignited the big bang? The mass concentration proposed in this theory would remain forever bound as a universal black hole. Gravity would prevent it from ever expanding outward.

Missing Star Formation: No natural way has been found to explain the formation of planets, stars, and galaxies. An explosion should produce, at best, an outward spray of gas and radiation. This gas should continue expanding, not form intricate planets, stars, and entire galaxies.

Missing Antimatter: Some versions of the big bang theory require the equal production of matter and antimatter. However, only small traces of antimatter-positrons and antiprotons, for example-are found in space.

Missing Time: Some experiments indicate that the universe may be young, on the order of 10,000 years old. If true, then there is not sufficient time for the consequences of the big bang theory to unfold. A short time span will not allow for the gradual evolution of the stars or life on Earth.

Missing Mass: Many scientists assume that the universe will eventually stop expanding and begin to collapse inward. Then it will again explode and repeat its oscillating type of perpetual motion. This idea is an effort to avoid an origin and destiny for the universe. For oscillation to occur, however, the universe must have a certain density or distribution of mass. So far, measurements of the mass density are 100 times smaller than expected. In fact there are indications that the universe is accelerating outward instead of slowing down. The universe does not appear to be oscillating. The necessary mass or "dark matter" is "missing."

Missing Life: In an evolving universe, life should have developed everywhere. Space should be filled with radio signals from intelligent life forms. Where is everybody?

Missing Neutrinos: These small particles should flood the earth from the sun's fusion process. The small number detected raises questions about the sun's energy source and man's overall understanding of the universe. How then can science speak about "origins" with any authority?

...as if to say that the big bang theory is wrong just because we can't trace back to the origins of energy. Well, there does not have to be an origin, it's known that energy can not be created or destroyed, it simply could have been forever.



Possibly a quantum event. As for the gravity issue: Click.



Is this for real? Gravity.



We haven't come close to seeing the whole of the universe yet, infact we can only see a ridiculously small amount...who's to say that there aren't other areas of the universe with plenty of antimatter?




And the other 99.5% of experiments that are done by real scientists show that the universe it 10+ billion years old.




It's becoming more commonly accepted that the universe will not fall in on it's own gravity, and there will be no 'big crunch'. I don't see what relevance that has to whether there was a big bang or not, but anyway. As far as I know, the dark matter is not 'missing', it just can't be detected. It's not called dark matter for nothing.




Does this author know something that no other biologists in the world do? Or is he just making things up...



Apart from the fact that they do flood the Earth, was point is trying to be made?


On a side note- 49ers, remember to post the link to your source, or other wise it's considered plagiarism. Your source.

Who says the energy has to come from anything?



Thats because the BBT doesnt deal with what existed before hand, it has to deal with the bang. To hear about what supposedly existed before that bang, you have to dive into the string theory.



What ignited the big bang? Im affraid this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the BBT. Time exists as part of the universe, not the other way around... meaning that before the BBT, there was no time and all these ideas on "igniting" it are pretty much void past talking in laymans terms.



Where did you get that from? When I empty a bucket of liquid nitrogen on the floor, what happens? The liquid nitrogen spreads outwards... but it does form round droplets...



Point being?



Oh really? And what experiments are these, hmm?



Why should it be "filled" with such? Hmm?



They do flood the Earth, and neutrinos are actually very hard to detect, perhaps that has to do with why there "should" be more, hmm?

So... when are you going to stop saying theres holes here and here, and start proving that the BBT supports god? You can not say "We dont know why this happens, therefore god exists", it is illogical.

Oh my! The typical "science can't explain it yet so it has to be explained through religion".

That's the entire reason why religion exists, because a long time ago, there was a point in time that science didn't explain anything, because there was either A. no science or B. very little people were around that actually tried to find other ways of explaining things (outside of religion). So obviously, in the year 2006, we have still not advanced far enough to know and explain EVERYTHING.

You see, science is an ongoing thing, it doesn't just end, there isn't just one book for it. If something's not answered yet, in time, it will be answered through science. Science is LEARNING, enlightening yourself.

^Thank you.

That's something many people seem to not be able to understand.

Look, I am not trying to push religion, all I am saying is I believe God built the Universe, but I also don't know why. I won't know until Judgement Day, or when He allows it. I simply see a lot of discrepencies in some theories, and aren't we encouraged to keep thinking? I do believe in science, and learning. I do not have a closed mind to ALL explanations like you. If you pantloads want to be so narrowed minded that you cannot recognise that there is truth to Intelligent Design, then you are not LEARNING, enlightening yourself. You simply cast it off because it has something to do with God.

While everything is a possibility, I choose to not recognize the weaker, less likely possibilities (such as religion) as major contenders in the "search for truth" competition.

Let's put it in terms of cars. There are tons of kids out there that think they have the hottest car in the world. I'm sure you've seen the kid driving around your town with the 80's Honda that thinks it's the best car ever made. He has the 6'' exhause tip, the "altezza" tail lights, and the chrome trim around his door sills that somehow makes it "faster". Since he owns this car and is loyal to Honda, he's going to think it can't get any better, even though in the back of his mind he knows the kid smoking his @$$ on the highway with the 2005 BMW has a much cooler car. He'll NEVER admit it, and he'll even run down the 2005 BMW just to make himself feel better about his car. He also tries to race it every chance he gets, even knowing that he'll lose because his car is outdated and it's just not sensable to put money into it to make it faster.

....you're "that" kid my friend.

WOW who ever posted this deserves an accademy award for this dramatic post.

on a side note the next post will be about "NOT ALL DEMONS DRIVE JETTAS!"

My question is: why does it have to be one or the other? I beleive the Universe was created by the BBT or some other "natural" way and I also believe in evolution. Because science has pretty much proven it. However, I also believe that humans were created by a higher intelligence like the Bible says.

Exactly. Thank you.

You are a moron. That comparison is truly adolescent at best. Thanks for making yourself and your ideas look "Superior".

wow, I first posted my thoughts in the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs section. And received comments from people saying they had never heard of this view before or that its simply bs. I come Extraterrestrial Life & The UFO Phenomenon for the first time and the 2 main topics are on the same subject that i was posting on. Sasa, i'd very much appriciate if you'd read over my post. Its a very long post but the information i posted there is due to a year and a half of research. It's a rareity to run into someone that has similar thoughts on this topic. The topics title is;

Alien Lineage Found Due to Coast to Coast?
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=72677

I just posted this comment on the Aliens are Demons thread but I meant to post it here so I will, Sorry for repetition.

Personally, I don't beleive in gods or demons. If you look at the roots of religion and go back as far as possible, you may find that what we describe as demons and what the people then were seeing were just non-human visitors.

I went back 32,000 years which was as far as archaeological evidence took me and found in Moravia, or mid- east Europe, simple ritual related to beleif in the earth mother.

Later religions had supernatural beings such as the Immortals of China or our own Odin. The Jehovah god was a local war deity related to a specific mountain region.

If you read Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision", there are still a few copies around, you'll find his theory of a comet which was captured into our solar system, causing widespread catastrophe such as tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, the ground on fire as hydrocarbons were deposited and maybe even the demise of existing civilisation. Hence the present day major religions which are mostly relics of eastern oral history warning of war among gods and vengeance of gods.

The Mayan calendar was to determine the passage of this comet which settled into regular orbit as the relatively young planet Venus.

It's the religious doctrine that inspires fear of a devil which is just a corruption of the nature god, the horned man and the horned man is one of our oldest types of visitors, whether from another planet or another plane.

Also Ive seen an unearthly flying craft, it altered shape and size as I watched and a friend I rang at the time saw it land and take off again 4 miles away.

Wow! I've seen a few VERY odd things over the last 18 years here in Oregon.. on our coast and over my city - and we know they were not man-made - hence why I visit this forum. But your sighting would have totally freaked me out.

I hope you and your friend reported this incident. When did this happen? How long did you observe this? Were you in the UK as well? Was this your only sighting?

I seriously feel in my "soul" that there is a God, or Higher Spirit (being with a dying loved one before they passed away and telling me what they saw really made me understand that) but I do believe there is something or "others" out there... and I don't think it has anything to do with Satan or his lil' demons riding around those odd things some of us have seen.

Of what I have seen, I do freak out a bit and sometimes I am in awe of what I had seen- and at other times, I get rather frustrated.. but thankfully I don't recall seeing any of the Aliens operating these things. That would probably do me in! lol

Also, sorry to interrupt but I don't exactly beleive in evolution and by the way it has never been proven, it's a theory, but neither do I beleive in a god sitting there bored and creating everything for amusement.
I personally beleive in spontaneous appearances, that is that if there is a possibility of something existing, then it probably does. The universe is pure energy, of most of which we are totally unaware.
I think as do quite a lot of other people, that the gate through which everything comes into existence, including time, is mind.
I don't think time is linear either, so if it's cyclic as everything else seems to be, then it's just a matter of seeing into infinity! An easy way is to place 2 mirrors so they reflect each other and put your head in the middle but take care, not if you're too stoned!
Even the modern god science is seeing the possibility of other dimensions than the one we blind ourselves into beleiving is the only place of existence.
One bonus is that we are immortal beings who have just forgotten the fact, only matter decays, life is a universal infinite thing and we are all just a part of it.

Frank Herbert, the best philosopher in the world in my opinion and a good sci-fi writer said, ""This is the awe-inspiring universe of magic: There are no atoms, only waves and motions all around. Here, you discard all all belief in barriers to understanding. You put aside understanding itself. This universe cannot be seen, cannot be heard, cannot be detected in any way by fixed perceptions. It is the ultimate void where no pre-ordained screens occur upon which forms may be projected. You have only one awareness here - the screen of the magi: Imagination! Here, you learn what it is to be human. You are a creator of order, of beautiful shapes and systems, an organiser of chaos" Frank Herbert Heretics of Dune


and

"At the quantum level our universe can be seen as an indeterminate place, predictable in a statistical way only when you employ large enough numbers. Between that universe and a relatively predictable one where the passage of a single planet can be timed to a picosecond, other forces come into play. For the in-between universe where we find our daily lives, "that which you believe" is a dominant force. Your beliefs order the unfolding of daily events. If enough of us believe, a new thing can be made to exist. Belief structure creates a filter through which chaos is sifted into order." Frank Herbert - Heretics of Dune

Oh really? Please, show us this "truth"... show us the evidence that there is something true in ID...

Sigh,

Why must you bring religion into this? Religion is the real ruse, The universe wasn't created by man, Religion was, and that is a fact no matter what you say.

How can you be so narrow to say that we are the only ones in an endless space? There's trillions upon trillions of stars, and planets, etc. How could we be the ONLY ones?

Only religion can create that kind of close-mindedness

Evolution is a fact, it has been proven.

Evolution by natural selection is a theory.




No one knows the prerequisites of life. So it is very possible that we are the only life forms in the entire universe.

I think the reason that religion comes into it is for a few reasons, here are some suggestions.

1/ It was people watching the movements of stars and planets who first noticed anomalies and to record them they had to get them into oral history in such a way that they would be remembered. The oral histories became beleif systems, then people who saw an opportunity to control large numbers of people such as Constantine, took it a step further.

2/ Anything that throws the slightest doubt about a beleif system causes paranoia in a religious person because religion rules by fear of punishment.

3/ There are some unscrupulous people trying the Constantine trick now with some of the new age ideas.

4/ The visitors (who aren't flying in stealth planes) may be from other dimensions of our own space, therefore may be developing alongside us - just imagine if they see a Boeing go past do they say wow, a UFO?! T
They may be the same beings who caused the original divine being syndrome, maybe the Jinn, or the Fairies, but modern religion doesn't allow anything except the supremecy of man and his God, so a UFO throws a spanner in the works and has to be explained away.
It means we aren't at the centre of or the purpose of the universe.

5/ If I meet a non-human intelligent being I'd say it was a non-human intelligent being, if a mainstream religious person meets one it's either an angel or a demon, if I was living in medieval Ireland I'd say it was fairy folk, if I lived in Persia at the same time period I'd say it was a Djinn.

I don't think you are correct in saying it has been proven. It's still called the theory of evolution.
It can be questioned by taking the simplest eye as an example. An eye is not functional unless all of it's component parts are present and operational. Evolution says that a creature develops something useful and because it's useful it is passed on by natural selection to it's offspring. A bit of an eye would not be useful at all, in fact there's no logical reason to develop any of it unless the eye is complete. I think that maybe an eye spontaneously appeared on a creature but that's not evolution is it?

Anyway I agree that creatures develop and change such as the numbers of long-legged hedgehogs, but I don't think they become something else entirely.


And as for us being the only life form in the universe, how many life forms are there on this planet? and how much do we know about them? what senses are they using that our meagre senses don't even detect? Why do we discount all other life forms on our planet as unimportant to the point of not even including them in our considerations? How can we expect to be treated any better by a more intelligent species?

You two arent talking about the same thing... he's talking about the process of evolution, which isnt really something to be "proven" as much as established. It is established that evolution is a valid process that does happen... for example, the evolution of computers... The theory of evolution pertains to whether life evolves aswell.



Thats a common misconception of evolution. The theory of evolution does not claim that an organ such as the eye begins as a bunch of junk until it has enough material/complexity to work as a certain organ...

I understand what you are saying. We are actually arguing the same thing in different ways, well perhaps. I don't think you can include computers though. The ancient chinese book IChing actually is based on the binary code, I put a photo of this on a webpage ages ago to show someone and it's still there at http://www.holisticfraternity.co.uk/links.html then scroll down to Ho Tu Movement and Binary in the IChing, about halfway down, . Computers have developed but the basics were there thousands of years ago, and given by strangely immortal beings too!!

I seriously don't know how evolution explains the appearance of eyes. Does it say that it's spontaneous then? You can say the same about feathers too, they just appear in the geological record, and so they say, oh yes then there were feathers....

Why is it daft to say that as all is energy, it all is mind, and things just are because they can? A bee can't fly. It's impossible because of its weight and the size of its wings. It flies because it thinks it can.

It doesnt matter how long ago the basics were developed, computers themselves have developped, they've become better and better... they've evolved. As for the last part, I wont even touch that subject here.



Well, eyes and feathers are different things. Eyes are more complex than feathers, theres plenty of conceivable ways for eyes to have evolved from a less complex organ. Feathers, on the other case, are different... they indeed could have simply appeared with a certain generation imo.



Where'd you hear that?

What you mean to say is micro-evolution is a proven fact, which is simply breeding and adapting. Macro-evolution has yet to be witnessed, which is the change from one species to another... Right? Because that would be true.
And macro-evolution is far from proven, the Miller Experiment was almost unanimously proven to have been a flawed settup for an early-earth enviroment due to the specific mix of chemicals, that is before you get into the idea of nature syphoning off electric currents within the mixture naturally through some unknown method. The famed Galagapos birds are a fantastic example of a species of birds that beaks change dynamically generation to generation, which is micro-evolution. Not Macro.
However I am not completely against such a theory, as in my opinion if God so wished, he could have created everything through Evolution, although it seems somewhat illogical.

Oh, to the previous post who said that extra-terrestials cannot be human, if a human was born on a planet that was not earth he would technically be extraterrestial. (although I think the possibility of a human extraterrestial is extremely unlikely)

However I do not really dissagree with the theory that aliens could possibly be demons. Its a very interesting idea. Just the way the first thread starter posted it made her sound like a raving lunatic. The key word there would be SOUND. (I hate it when people start saying I called them stupid)

Mad, in a good sense . I like this one and have thought about it myself.

One way of looking at it is everything is possibilities, probabilities and odds. Like Douglas Adam's infinite probability drive. On a high setting of probability 'things' could just appear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_Drive.

Perhaps the only known apparatus that could comprehend the vastness of the universe is the human imagination.
In our culture especially sci-fi culture, we have imagined what aliens might look like, perhaps they actually exist in the universe(s) almost exactly to how we imagined them to be and against the odds they are here.

Although... According to Decart the human imagination is somewhat limited... heh heh heh... As we can only imagine things which we have witnessed something vaguely similar, or opposite. (if you see a hole you can imagine a mountain)

Bring it to the spirtuality and skepticism forum, and maybe you'll learn that that's not ture.



Actually, beaks changing dynamically from one generation to another generation is a "macro" change...



Did you know that it wasnt even science that came up with the terms microevolution and macroevolution? Macroevolution is simply a series of microevolutionary steps (mutations) which together impact majorly on the physical traits of a species... such as, oh... say the beaks of birds... The terms were adopted by creationists and others who deny evolution in order to validate their beliefs. This way they can say that theres no necessary link betwee "micro"evolution and "macro"evolution, and they dont have to deny that mutations (microevolution) do happen.

What's adolescent is you calling me a moron. Besides, I would expect you to react the way you did to my comparison because I predicted your reaction IN my comparison before you ever responded muahahaha.

(In other words, you just gave my comparison more credibility )

For any of you who felt I was "Spamming" and this was a ploy to promote my book I suggest you go back and re-read the thread in it's entirety. I didn't even mention my book until I was needled for proof that would support my beliefs at which point I told them where they can find it. As I mentioned before, the website companion to the book will be available for FREE the same day the book comes out whether or not it makes any profit at all. Profit is not what I wrote it for. Revealing the TRUTH is.

If you still crave proof, you may also visit the following forum for FREE http://www.beyondthisworld.proboards38.com

You may also visit my MySpace page and blog. It too, is FREE
http://www.myspace.com/lightoflifeministries

I've also started a group on MySpace. Again, for FREE
http://groups.myspace.com/OpenYourHeart

A study on newts in California proved macro-evolution...plus, we have evidence. Mostly the fossil record and homologies.

and allele frequencies.

How is a book that YOU wrote PROOF? Of course a book YOU wrote is going to support whatever theories YOU have. That makes no sense. And free or not advertising is still SPAM.

Using cars and car ownership to make your point is moronic. Face it. And manipulating someone and using a muahahaha laugh is adolescent. PANTLOAD

Someone please close this thread,spamming and name calling is not allowed.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/rules.php

To get back to the subject of whether aliens exist, am I the only person here who has seen UFO's close up?
Also in the summer of 1992, with no stimulation of any kind, walking through the wood with a baby in a pram, I met a non-human intelligent life form that was nothing I've ever heard described in natural history documentaries. I've done loads of research to find out what I met and interacted with, with missing time and everything, and the nearest things I've found are Djinn, Odin and his hounds, or Erinyes,(except that the latter are usually described as female and what I saw was male). While in the company of this being I walked along a path with plants on either side that were like maize, except that it's an english oak woodland and there aren't any like that, and where the path was which I pushed my baby buggy along, there is a 15 foot deep quarry.
I don't know whether this was alien or earth bound, whether it was from another plane sharing our space but I know for certain that I'm not the first to meet one, there are so many accounts from so long ago that it is in our myths and legends everywhere in the world from long before we had these organised eastern religions. As for it being Nephilim, no it wasn't.
I surprised it as it was basking in a tree, and it took me along a path that isn't there with a baby and didn't hurt me, in fact the parting gift was for me to see the Green in everything, the life force and it was amazing, like pure love.

I've seen a UFO over my base in Vietnam in 1968 and that what made me a believer. The UFO was identical to the UFO that interfered with our Minuteman missiles at Malmstrom AFB in 1975 and NORAD's radar lost track of that UFO after it climbed above 200,000 feet. Two F-106 Delta Darts were scrambled to intercept the UFO in that incident but they failed. Some of my compatriots were at RAF Bentwaters during the UFO incidents there in 1980, one of them came along a few years later, and that is what made them UFO believers.

You know what? How about you get off my back and go find something productive to do aside from attacking someone you don't know on the internet? Is this how you get your jollies and make yourself feel better about your pitiful life? By trolling?

Plenty of people - thousands actually - have written books that support whatever theories they have. I didn't start this thread to discuss my book - it's simply the direction the discussion went in because I was needled for what "proof" I have. That is the ONLY reason I mentioned it because in the book. That is not ADVERTISING sweetheart, it's CONVERSATION.

I can understand your annoyance Sasa, this thread seems to have strayed from the original source to a battle about religious beliefs.
I am open minded and have been interested with your views, with anything supernatural you are going to come up against differences of opinion, and at the end of the day that is all it is, for people to accept your views as being a truth they themselves would have to experience what you have and vice versa.

I do believe in alien beings, for me it is just logical to do so, countless stories relating to abduction, crafts being photographed, not forgetting the expanse of the universe tells me it would be ignorant to believe that we are the only life forms.
I also believe in spirits, but i'm not sure about demons and angels i am not a religious person and i have always associated them both with religious beliefs, i do also believe we all have spirit guides to help us though life.

Please don't take personal offence at the use of the word ignorant, but these are my views and opinions.

Oh snap!