You would think that someone with an I.Q. of 155 would have better grammer and sentance structure. But we aren't here to discuss that, or the kids that went to private school with off the chart I.Q. levels. I went to public school and have an average I.Q. of 140.

my favorite channel!!


i see your point with the whole mind thing now, i have a question though, what about the tibetan monks and such that could hold their breath to the point where they killed themselfs, theoretically, gaining more controll over their body than you just mentioned? or their similar ability to raise their body temperature considerably?

and just for the record, i dont know wether i belive in PK, it seems farfetched to me, the subtler "abilities" yeah, but not PK

I see now lol
muddy wishes he didn't sound like an ass on that last post

my IQ is 140, but why the heck are we talking about that?

-Muddy

yeah, thats the place that i score the worst..... my grammar expecially, i kno it makes me sound like a dumbass alot of the time, but sorry, try to look at the content, not at the presentation... thats the other thing ive found, there are people on these things with really high IQs, and some really dumb people..... whats dissapointing is that most of the people with the higher IQs are on the skeptics side of things (and rightly so, PK is mostly BS)

nd megalomania, id be great to have that video, not only for soemthing to compare to, but also to show the belivers how easy it is to make something that seems real

Yes, I am a skeptic, although i'm sure you figured that out already. I work with what I have at hand. I need proof that can be tested, retested and then tested ten more times, each time producing the same end result. If, and only if the evidence that was provided, produces the same end result everytime, will be considered proof to me. If at anytime I have reasonable doubt, I will throw away the evidence that was provided. That is why I personally have a problem with "video proof". There was a member here that made a couple of videos, that he admitted were fake, but looked real. So for me, I wont accept videos as proof.

very smart position to take, and i agree with you, PK is clearly not passing any tests... but what would you say about things like telepathy, empathy, astral projection ect... the more subtle uses of energies

id also like to thank you guies for the humane conversation

Please do. I did it for hydrokinesis.

In the words of a blues great: "Get off your big fat rusty dusty".

Okay... *wanders off to find camera*...

EDIT: Actually, I'll wait until the weather is colder.

Not only is it a smart position, it's a safe one.




Honestly, I can guess numbers very well. I say guess, only because I feel it's more or less reading the person, rather then knowing the number. I have about a 75-90% success rate in guessing numbers. Obviously the higher the number count goes, the more my success rate declines. As for empathy, again I feel it's more or less reading the eyes or facial features of a person. Reading people is something I can do fairly well. Astral projection is something I have never experienced, although from the sounds of it, if it is real, it would be something I would enjoy to experience. That brings me back to, I need to experience it to believe it.



No problem.

Just watched the video again, more critically. Here are my questions.

On top of the lid of the jar is what seems to be a sticker. If that's all it is, then fine. but on the other hand, it'd make excellent camouflage for something.

Why is the psiwheel so "tall"? It goes right down to the bottom of the jar, effectively concealing anything beneath it.

Speaking of which:



Why is it that when tilted at that angle, the psiwheel doesn't appear to move signifigantly? If it's resting on an ordinary pin, as psiwheels usually do, it would slip off.

The practitioner, or magician as the case may be, does not show the environment. Additionally, he (or a she with very hairy arms) moves his hands slightly to change the direction of the wheel. Nothing big, but suspicious.

Why is there a book anyways?

Lastly, it seems as though there may be some misdirection involved, i.e. the magnet and rifling through the book. Could potentially be trying to lead the viewer in the wrong direction. another thing that makes me think this is the fact that we don't get to see behind the book, nor is the jar opened. I know that if I was doing something that would prove psi, I would show EVERYTHING involved in the experiment. If I truly did it with my mind, I'd have nothing to hide.

My conclusion is either a device outside of the field of view, such as a heater, or something under the wheel, such as a small motor or a small exothermic chemical reaction beneath.

probably to show that a magnet is not under the table?


yes I agree.

KK he flipped through the book, he put a magnet up to the side to show you that is wasn't magnified, he put something to the side i didn't spin, the psi wheel was hanging by a thread because it was pulled through the top of the jar and taped (you can see the white), it is pulled through the psi wheel and knotted wat more do you want

I've done my homework, thanks.



Demonstration


(Showing two heat sources and the direction the induced current would take, as well as the direction it would rotate the psiwheel)

Convection currents follow a path, they don't move randomly. By heating up the air around the jar only a single current should be made, and for that to cause the psiwheel to spin as fast as it did and then to stop and change direction so quickly is extremely doubtful. If there were two distinct heat sources which could make two currents, that would make a lot more sense, but because there is a fairly thick layer between the jar and any apparent heat sources I don't think that would be the case either, because the heat would be spread over a larger area and would probably just make one single current.

I'm not saying you're wrong, that it isn't done by a convection current. Just pointing out that there's most likely another factor as well.

Ah, very well.
Sorry for doubting you.

However, while doing my science experiment, my wheel did this often, so I'll have to look into it, and probably do a few more tests...

When the weather is colder... (for winter.. it's suprisingly warm :hmm ... )

A billion jews huh. You are way off more like 7 million. Thats how psychics like to exaggerate.

^Semantics. How irrelevant.

you do know that it is extremely possible he put a piece of metal up. It wasn't even shown clearly to show that it was a magnet. Also your wrong cameras can film whats there and whats not. Anyone w/ experience with computer graphics or video editing for that matter can produce an illusion. I sure hope in movies you don't actually think that they are flying or driving or falling or anything since that would prove why you think like this.

darn straight

overall, this video seems to have quite a few "flaws" in it, wether they are all due to carelessness, or wether they are signs of tampering, it causes issues. the point with the metal not necesarily being magnetized is a very good one, but ill have to go check if tin foil is magnetic, cause ive never tried it...

and this is what I mean about people looking for holes! I can there can be tons of ways that I can disprove him or prove him. I might as well say he used the powder of unicorn horns and pixie dust before the shooting so that it would move. Or, I can say that the earth was in a certain position that the gravity of neighboring planets slightly threw off the balance and made the psi wheel spin. it's endless! (don't comment on how farfetched these ideas are, I'm simply making a point)

lol, the fact that the whole world is dumb. Could it be you seeking attention or tricking us to think we're dumb so you can have fame and glory? Maybe you are just saying you are so smart you can out trick a trickster. This can go both ways my friend



I never said you should believe the video to it's full extent, that was the feeling you got from my post. My original point was disproving everyone's thought not telling them they should indeed believe it.

Of course you think it's silly. But, there are some people out there who believe that the holocaust didn't exist.

There are always holes in the proof because there are people who make the holes.



why would he be hiding anything? and what do you want him/her to do? go around the world and video tape it so we all know there isn't a huge pulley system using fishing line to make it move?




it's not psychics who exaggerate it's overall people who exaggerate. this is what you call
a hyperbole. this is used to create more emotion in order to further convey a point out to people. look in literature, propaganda, magazines etc. I'm sure you'll find some.

He would be hiding the way in which he is faking the experiment. The fact that the book remained placed on the table at all times, and the jar remained unopened, indicates that there is something amiss, especially considering he is so thorough in otherwise dismissing fraud, for instance, the magnet test and flipping through the book. By doing these things to seemingly "dispel" any chance of fraud, he comes across to us as a (more) honest fellow, also conveniently trying to blind us to the other weaknesses in the demonstration.

Additionally, don't you think a larger field of view would be helpful? Look at it this way.

A video is put on the Internet. It shows the screen of a TV, and only the screen of the TV. This means, no buttons below it, just the picture-bearing area. The TV, at the beginning of the video, is off. Suddenly it turns on. We are given three options of belief then. 1), The TV was turned on with a certain variety of kinesis, say, TK. 2) Somebody pushed the power button which we could not see. 3) A remote control is used.

Further, let's suppose that the goal of the video is not to prove that TK is real. Let us assume that the video is a challenge to the viewer, to determine how it was turned on. The viewer has no idea whatsoever of course, because the end result of each is the same, and nothing can be seen except the screen.

So in this way, we see that a branch of options may be narrowed down to a single end result, the TV turning on. Since that is all we see, we cannot make a judgment as to how it happened.

Now let's change the video. Suppose it zooms out to the back of the room, so that we can not only see the TV, but anyone standing in the room containing the TV. There is absolutely no possibility that there is an unseen person hiding in the room with a remote. So, suppose we see the person in the room step forward and hit the power button on the TV. The TV turns on, and we know that they turned on the TV by using the buttons. Same principle appleis to someone who turned on the TV with a remote. So too, if the person neither manually turned on the TV, nor used a remote, and there is NO possibility for a second person concealing a remote, can we assume that the TV is turned on by the person's mind.

Expanding the field of view, and thus the field of knowledge, improves our understanding of the video. Just like the TV analogy, in this video we only see the end result, not the methods leading up to it. Even a quick show around the room would have been better than this field of view of perhaps 12 inches.

hahahha, i say look at last 4 seconds of the video, dont look at the book, keep your eye on the JAR

only last 4 secconds, look carefully hahahhaha hallerious

I understand your point. But my point is that even if he did do that skeptics would still think of ways it can be done outside the viewing screen. Even if the whole area was shown it would still be disproven one way or another.

The same way you will believe even when it is shown fake.

if there was a video was made to show that it was fake and shown that it indeed was fake then of course it wouldn't be believed. If people did believe it, he/she really is an idiot. .

so who's a skeptic and who's not..

Y'know, it's kind of obvious who's skeptic and who's not...

Just saying.

i just got on here,OK?!

then figure it out, and educate yourself, and yes, this is targeted towards you hermagesty, learn something, and then come back to these forums

As we can see here folks *puts on safari hat* the dangerous psychics and the fearsome skeptics are worst enemies. however, these two species join alliance as they attack another loathed species... the n00bs...

yommi what r u talkin about??
whatever psychics exist and skeptics need to open their minds...OK?!

there are two types of noobs, those that come here trying to learn, and those that think they already know it all... unfortunatly, the first breed is almost extinct, and all sorts of neophytes come here saying they know electrokineses after one week, not even bothering to learn that there is no such thing as electrokinesis(its telekinesis on electrisity), and they think that because a cell phone will turn on with no battery left means theyr on their way to mastery...

u know what get educated fo real and come back with what u learnd, OK? and electrokinesis is a sub-category of psychokinesis!

Cool! Go tell the person who made this vid to go collect $1,000,000 from James Randi.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

that shows how much you dont know, ive been doing this for a lot longer than you have, belive me, you dont know crap... when your willing to be reasonable, and are willing to learn something, talk to me, but untill then... dont talk...

EDIT: beautiful quote red hen
have you ever read a candle in the dark(i think that was the title) by carl sagan, its a great book about that very quote

[quote name='kariudo115' date='Jun 27 2006, 10:40 PM' post='1249161']
that shows how much you dont know, ive been doing this for a lot longer than you have, belive me, you dont know crap... when your willing to be reasonable, and are willing to learn something, talk to me, but untill then... dont talk...

that proves BS, did u even try to look up if electrokinesis is a sub-category of PSYCHOKINESIS(not telekinesis)? no, so when u do write back.OK?!

I'm sorry, but you've turned into a rogue n00b. most types of electrokinesis have been disproven.

Apparently you didn't get my little safari input. I was referring how even tho skeptics and believers have different views, they still attacked you aka: the n00b.

Interesting video, but very easy trick to perform.

I, too, saw this done in a science class. The wheel inside is made of very thin film (ultra-thin aluminum, I think). The 'wings' of the wheel react when something generating heat of over 85 degrees fahrnenheit is held close to it. Human hands are at least 98.6 degrees F, so just holding them nearby and how you position them can turn the wheel inside. It's the same principle as holding a closed vial of pure alcohol in your hand - hold it for a coulpe of minutes and the liquid (usually colored red) will begin to boil.

Another way to fake this sort of thing would be to drill a hole through the bottom of the jar, through the book and through the table, and an unseen rod fed through all three turns the fan from beneath the table. Since we can't see what's underneath the table, this could also be a likely explanantion for the fan changing direction, etc.

I do believe in psi abilities, but it would take a lot more visible scientific controls than this for me to call it 'hard proof' of the paranormal. Put something that doesn't react to heat inside the jar, suspend the jar in the air & spin the item inside - something like that would not be totally unexplainable, but it would be a step in the right direction.

ok, hermagesty, the internet doesnt prove crap, anybody will put anything in the internet, go read a book, such as initation into hermetics by franz bardon, or psycic self defence by dion fortune, then YOU get back to me

sci wheel talk:OVER!!! anyway do u have any abilities??? let me see...

yes, in fact i do, and wtf do u mean see, WERE ON THE INTERNET
i astral project, can raise my body temperature, and can break big sticks on my neck

likewise, it's possible that there can be a scientific explination. would the movements of a person't hand and heat actually change the psi wheel's direction that quickly and efficiently?

the rod idea sounds odd. can a rod truely push the psi wheel that many turns and change direction that quickly? also, if there were a rod I think it would take a little more time to move the jar off the rest of the abstract.



sorry but you can't just jump in and change the whole topic of a thread. PM a person if you would like to see proof or create another thread. going against the title of the thread is kinda, well, just not done.

Yep, read it a few years back. The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034540946...ce&n=283155

He does a good job of explaining why people fall for this stuff, even in the 20th century.
I would recommend this book for anyone trying to sort out what's real and what's not.

i read another book, fallacy:the counterfit of argument that was all about finding the flaws in arguments, and seeing through BS, it was another good one, that applys alot on these forums

I read it was a Bible, sorry sue me.

I won't put myself up for testing, it's a waste of my time.



Skeptics piss me off when they say "it's impossble" and sh** like that. Why can't they be intelligent and just say "I don't believe it's possible."?

Don't be angry. If you don't want submit yourself to the test and collect $1,000,000 that's cool.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I just haven't seen any reproducible proof for this "psi wheel" thingy in a controlled enviroment.

As Yommi has said, this is a psi wheel thread. It's about psiwheels. That's all it's about.



You know what's a waste of my time?

Drove after drove of psikids coming in here, spouting off about their magical abilities, and then refusing to give proof.

That is a waste of time.

@redhen:

No, no, no, not you. I've read several times in this topic alone where skeptics have said "it's impossible, get over it", and crap like that. That sets me off.

...I say as I use the mellow smiley.

This most be one of the worst videos, that attempt to be true, i mean the quality sucks, the coordination of the hands with the psiwheel is absolute BS, just think...WHY DO YOU NEED YOUR HANDS TO MOVE SOMETHING, IF YOU ARE USING YOUR MIND OVER MATTER???...

Most likely for the same reason that women make their mouths into an "O" when applying mascara.

Or, for the same reason I do that too when I am putting in my contacts.

LOL yeah right...nice try!