There was a TV prog on tonight called 'Transplanting Memories' it was interesting in suggesting that our hearts could act as emotional memory centres as some people who had recieved transplants had experienced new ways of thinking/skills/info/memories and even dreams about there recipent which turned out to be right..... There was a study done where they wired up peoples brains and hearts and found the heart was infact the first one to respond to emotional information, triggering of memories before the brain did. I did a search looking for more info and found a webpage writen by someone inspired by this prog. The article does touch on paranormal and spirituality which is why i posted it in this section, any mod can feel free to move it if it's in the wrong section

I think the concept opens up quite a can of worms. It does lend support to the theory of cellur memory - ie when someone has lost a limb but still experinces the sensations of having that limb and the theory that scent cells contain memory in each cell. There is some impressive case studies about halfway down the page if you don't have time to read the entire article.


http://ellisctaylor.homestead.com/cellularmemory.html

I was sitting here watching it also it was damn good and i think that it is right. There is a thread somewhere on here where i described watching a programme about a woman who had a hollow skull she had no brain yet she lived a normal life with problems like any normal healthy human being so the brain acting as a type of heart would seem the only solution to her unique situation. I think the heart acts as a type of brain also. It gives a new meaning to people saying dont think with your brain but think with your heart.

The reason one feels sensation in a phantom limb is because of embryological development. During the first days of development we form somites. Not to get into too much detail but while the limb buds grow the nerves travel with them. This is why when you cut a limb the sensation remains, not because of 'cellular memory' but because you have not removed the origin of those nerves just the synapses between nerve and muscle.

The heart is a very interesting organ, however, I have to disagree that is contains any form of emotion. The idea that the brain would not register stimuli first since it is what is responsible for autonomic reactions is just silly. There are accelerating and decelerating centres in the medulla that control all homeostatic reactions of the heart.

You have got to be kidding me. You are having us on. No human being can live without a brain. None. End of discussion.

They have found that the hearts EMF is 100 times more powerful than the brain.

I find the possible implications of this huge, if the heart acts as somesort of emotional memory centre, maybe the heart holds the key in treating emotional disorders/illness?

Even sleep/dream disorders ?

wow, lol, this is all absurd.
in order to have storage of feeling or memory,you need synaptic nerves, which are not in the heart. as for the "brainless woman" she prolly had a PART of her brain missing. there is no way to live without most of the brain

I think our emotions are stored within the water that makes up 90% of our bodies. Maybe the water within our blood has something to do with it as well.

I also was wondering if crying has to do with the brain contracting, transfering negative water accumulated or sponged up in our brain and then pushed out tear glands.

That may be why my girlfriend feels hundover and dehydrated after a night of crying.

there is also a practice called lachrymony(completlyspelledwrong) that practices realease of emotional tension by controlled crying. like self purification.

but these are unresearched personal theories.. they may be relavent, or not.

The heart beats using actin potentials which are a form of electrochemical transfer using charged molecules. This is what is measured when you have an EKG/ECG. You are completely misinformed as the heart does not produce EMF. You show me a legitimate site concerning the production of EMF and I will eat my hat. No disrespect but I must bow out of this one, I am a scientist and right now this is giving me aneurysm.


Cheers

No joke this woman had no brain yet she was fine i though it was a hoax but they did scan after scan after scan and it showed the same thing a hollow skull. Yet she was fine. If her heart acted as a brain it could explain it.

ok ok ok maybe its not called the EMF somesort of magnetic field is what they talked about and it can be picked up by equipment up to 27 foot away or something. I'm only repeating what this documentry found

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...p;hl=brain+stem

Probably not completely true, but oh well.

As for the documentary, I watched it briefly, I'll see in the morning if I recorded it or not and if I did I'll double check what was said. It definetely did say the heart produces an electric something, though.

That what we have a brain for...The heart is a muscle.


Its what measure by ECG machines..Its made by the contractions of the muscles. It's not EMF.

My mom is a cardiologist and my dad is a neurogenecist. I think I know what I am talking about...

Your memory is in your brain

She had to have a brain...Maybe not as much as others, but she had one


That is just ridiculous.

http://www.alternativescience.com/no_brainer.htm

they have VERY LITTLE brain matter, but they still have brains.

THE HEART IS A MUSCLE, its simple as that, there is no argument to make.
and as for the water one, water doesnt even contain cells, just molecules.

Sorry for all those sceptics but the neuroscience is being turned on its head, lol, every decade, what was nonsense ten years ago is proven factual practiced art this year…

The programme stated that within the design of the muscular framework there also is a nuero-framework.

Those in the know, the heart regulates itself, fact yeah, in that it contains a synaptic system that enables it to store motor memories and it seems also emotional content as well.

pond life (frogfish) get your mom or dad to come on here and verify your claims as I would love to wrestle with their magnificent intellects, lol….

The brain and heart both produce electromagnetic energy yet, this got me as well, the heart is between ten and a hundred times that of the brain, I know sounds ridiculous but I have had a look at the effects of magnetic charge on the brain a while back and there is some rational in what the programme suggests….

The biomechanics of the heart are not replicated anywhere else within the dynamics of the human body but some animals are. The human heart apparently contains a synaptic construct which enables it to uphold a motor response unique to the individual and when a heart transplant takes place the heart remains that of the predecessors regulatory system and it takes a minimum of six weeks to retune itself with its new host.

The programme was shown on a uk channel, channel 4 so go and check it out for yourselves….

Next thing they’ll be telling us our DNA holds a genetic memory of sorts, lol….

Ciao….

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/zoo00/zoo00158.htm

there is no "memory" cells in the heart, the beat is sent from the brain stem

I'll try and remember what I can, I wasn't paying much attention so I'll probably get some things wrong.

They took loads of regular people to do an experiment on, which involved hooking them up to different machines so that their heart could be monitored (I can't remember what they were monitoring for, but I'm almost sure it wasn't for the heart rate), and they also monitored brain activity. Then they placed the people in a seat and showed them images on a large screen, which were meant to make them feel happy, sad, angry etc.

They found that when these people were shown the images, their hearts showed a reaction before the brain did, and then it explained that the heart and brain communicate using electrical signals sent via the bloodsteam (?); so when some people got a new heart, the new one sent slightly different signals compared to their old one, resulting in the brain having a different response.

It didn't say that the heart was a second brain, or literally contained the memories of other people at all; I think the claim that these people soon became similar to the people who's heart they received is quite a stretch, but I don't doubt that it had some effect on their brain.

Thanks for expanding this a little more JC2

What is interesting in seeing peoples various reactions and opinions on this is of course for the good old spiritual Versus science debate. For the experts and those who can't see how this claim is possible from the physical mechincal working of the heart and brain, then I suppose one explaination could be spiritually based. Something has to explain why these transplant people took on new memories/info/skills/likes/dislikes and in all cases had managed to track the donors family down by just 'knowing' namse and personal details of their donor. Those that got feedback from their donors families were amazed to find out that there new aquired 'tastes, skills & interests' were those of the donor. Identity wise these people felt they had aquired a new part to them and some going as far as 2 personalities sharing one body. The old them and the new them.

Thanks Raptor, I wish I could watch the documentry again, I think you put it a little better than I did in explaining what they said about the eletrical circut/EMF thing and how it is 'talking to the brain'. But they did find with these people who had new hearts experiencing new skills, memories, likes, dislikes, even taste of music. They also knew personal details and info about the donor, explained as 'just knowing'....

Could it be if the heart to brain circut isn't functioning in the right rythm then this could cause changes in personality/emotional behaviour in non transplant people, in anyone ??

What I find interesting from a spiritual point of view is that practicing things like medititation, yoga, chi ti, chakra and light meditations, energy cleansing, reki, opening of third eye, all these kind of spirtual things all act as ways to natrually retune and rebalance the the body and mind. Alot can be focused on the relationship between the mind, heart and soul, frequancy, vibration, lowering and heighting 'ones' to reach other levels of conciounus. Maybe these things are good at keeping the 'heart - brain circut' rythm cycling normally and correcting it if it slips off balance.

That's because it's a muscle, while the brain is not. Muscles generate electrical pulses. Ever hear of electric eels? Same principle.


That's because people are different/ We have different blood supplies, different size aortic valves, even different metabolism. That's why sometimes transplants fail.


To control muscles. The neuro-muscular synapse is different than any other synapse in the body. Synapse as in the gap between axon and exon of 2 neurons where the signal is transmitted via neurotransmitters.

Do you have any proof. I would like to see references, or maybe you should just take a college biology course.


Nope, it's regulated by the brain, and the only thing it 'stores' is blood Epithelial cells are not glial cells


If you can't handle my points, what makes you think you can argue with a M.D. Ph.D ?

This thread might be of relevent interest

It's just a coincedence. I pointed out that the heart has no glial cells. If you think you can transplant 'souls', then go ahead...

frogfish, do you totally refute the theory posted in the link above?

Do you think you honestly know exactly how this reality works and can therefore make these bold statements as if fact?

Out of curiosity.

Hey no need to get so sarcastic

This documentry is saying it's MORE than just a coincedence, the examples/case studies they know of are just to complex to be coincedence. The Docu is called 'transplanting memories' It's one of those they play on the discovery channels, look out for it and see what you think.

The heart CANNOT STORE memories like the brain. Unless you believe the 'soul' can be transplanted, this nothing more than a mere coincedence.

Did you read the holographic universe theory I posted?

Do you totally refute it?

Do you think you fully understand how this reality works beyond any question of doubt?

But not everything was necessarily true, things are often exaggerated to make them look more interesting.




What has that got to do with this thread?



For all practical purposes, science can.

Maybe if you'd read it, you would find out!

Maybe. But it would be easier if you just told me.

actually the heart can regulate itself frog, theres a patch of cells on the heart called the "pacemaker" and that CAN regulate itself, BUT the brain does command the pacemaker when something is wrong, or different.

and as for "the heart had a reaction first" that is a huge lie, becuase just seeing the picture requires the brain to put the picture together. there is no way the heart had a reaction before the brain even put the picture together, and recognized it. UNLESS you can provide a link

I think that it said the heart had a reaction before the image came up so it could 'prepare itself'.

I'll try and watch it again if it repeats, then I'll be able to understand everything properly.

so you are saying that the brain told the heart the picture was going to come up? then the brain acted first. unless your telling me that the heart somehow "knew" that a pic was going to be shown even though it couldnt see it, and had no warning from the brain? and even if it did try to "prepare itself", for what? how can my heart "prepare" when my brain hasnt told it there is something to prepare for? am i going to have a heart attack if im startled, and have not "prepared" my heart? it just doesnt fit.

dr. emoto.

its not so ridiculous.

water is magical. it holds vibrational energy paterns. Who is to say the brain can't translate them. water is affected by emotions. check out the name above he does alot of research concerning water.

maybe water is the the spirit or substance that exists within the material world that our souls can bind to. its something to think about.

i thought about it, and i respect what you think, but i viamently disagree. water is (to me) a fluid that helps cells make ATP, and a medium for transporting chemicals, thats it. maybe water can transport sumthing that can alter emotions, but i dont see water being anyhitng like you say

oh, and water isnt some mystery, its hydrogen and oxygen, simple as that. i dont know what "vibration" you refer to, water must be acted upon to vibrate. (a law of motion)

If I remember right, what Dr. Emoto is that emotions could change the formation of ice crystals, and he demonstrated that by having someone listen to music and have them in some way interact with the water, the water is then examined and the shape of the crystals formed is recorded. It seems logical that the only real effect the music had on the water, were the vibrations being sent through the person which could have directly effected the crystal formation.



Apart from the obvious fact that the brain was in communication with the rest of the body; I'm talking about a direct response to the images.

its that too. and i think there is further mystery, apart from what already defines water.


Yep. emoto would project emotions, and music, to hundreds of samples of water. Positive emotions and harmonic music would produce organised and astheticly(sp) pleasing ice crystals, while the negatice emotions and sporatic music would produce chaotic ice crystals. Thereby, possibly (if his research is right), proving that non material things such as emotion has effects on something material, water. Nearly everything is composed of water.

But it could be that it isnt just water that is responsive to emotions, its something common in everything that holds these specific energy patterns. Water just was our way of figuring it out. But if it is just water, then every drop that we sponge into our body holds onto the nonmaterial energies that we experience throughout our life.

If that is so, then the purity of our water isnt just based on its physical contents, but the energy it holds. So water with positive vibes might make you emotionaly or spiritualy healthier... at least until you attach negative energys of your own into it. Then the water could capture those energies/emotions until they pass out your system.

for example. if i farted into the air, and then mysted the air with a spray bottle, the water might collect the stinky methane in an attempt to purify the air.

i dunno. i just think these are relavent rants.

sometimes i like to call water the holy spirit. doesnt make it true though.

intake toxins= dehydrations. smoke= dehydrate. drink = dehydrate. cry dehydrate.

but do you dehydrate when you get angry or excited or anything else emotional?

That can be easily explained using science. The music we consider to be harmonic is that produced by light, rhythmic soundwaves (which will only have a small effect), whereas the music which is 'angry' is made up of erratic soundwaves with a high amplitude (which will have a much great effect on the particles).

That can be easily explained using science. The music we consider to be harmonic is that produced by light, rhythmic soundwaves (which will only have a small effect), whereas the music which is 'angry' is made up of erratic soundwaves with a high amplitude (which will have a much great effect on the particles).

Without the brain, the heart cannot survive. It cannot send impulses to itself.

That's because cells lyse, and the water is expelled. Learn about Osmosis.

Dr. Emoto is more of a pseudoscientist. When ask to duplicate his project, he can't. He has no credibility.

Water, like A+ said, is just needed to make energy. There is nothing magical about it.

our emotions come from our mind, and our brain triggers are blood rate to go faster when we 'think' or 'feel' love, thus making our heart go faster, which makes our heart seem it but its just our mind, no matter what

Frogfish?

JC2 what do you think the implications of the heart doing this would be?

Do you think it's possible the key to really understanding emotional and personality disorders could lie in the hearts relationship with the brain?

Are you truly that incompetent to either not be able to read the holographic universe post, or understand the relation to this thread that it has?

Oh dear

I have deleted several posts. Using profanities, insults and flaming situations is not tolerated on UM. PM's will be sent along with warnings to the offenders. You know who you are.

Or are you truly incompetent that you can't prove this idea without the help of another fantasical and outrageous claim?

Use facts. Not ideas.

By the looks of it frogfish, your ego will not allow you to answer these questions.

The one I can answer for you is the third one, in which case your arguments are not solid - not fact - and not 100% correct. Unfortunately you seem to think otherwise.

A friendly debate is great, but you speak as if only what you say is 100% correct, which is to be fair quite rediculous

Not really, I personally feel that the hearts part of the process but as it has been stated there are more things within the dynamics of personal problems such as personality and emotional issues.

Its not as simple as some of the simple minded people would like to suggest……

I have some whopping issues that have taken a great punch out of my life per sae, issues that have enabled me to do some remarkable things as well so for every problem there is a solution it just takes time to gather up all the possibilities and see which things balance out what conflicts….

I would love to be able to say that the heart plays a major factor in the process of imagination but and that’s a big but, time is the issue.

A creative mind is definitely full of passion and a heart beats a mighty beat when full of that stuff so something is definitely at play….

Just have to wait for the science to prove/disprove the theories currently at play…

All this talk of its just a muscle is science from the middle ages type of thinking, I like the ideas that surround the current emf philosophies but again science is a little slow and technology IS being adapted to study the effects on may levels so fingers crossed a lot of answer will be coming in the none to distant future….

Adjure…

this thread may as well be closed now. all it will turn into is a bully trying to get attention by making fun of people. JC2, i think you know that your just another bully.

this is the only proffesor i could find in a google search of your name:
http://www.cox.smu.edu/academic/professor.do/rmargeri

if that is you, dont you think your a little old for this kind of behaivor?
the only other links were for a guy who invented some tea performance thing, and i dont think thats you

Another couple of posts have been deleted from here. Guys be civil with eachother otherwise further warnings will be issued.