good for you A+...you came to your own conclusions, pretty much like me.....you have a right to look at religion in any way you see fit...its your choice.....but some people feel if you dont read the bible or follow it like they do...all of a sudden you are an outcast.you find them throwing insults and hate.....those people to me are nothing but bigots...

Bolt...you cant get it into your lil head that not everyone needs to believe in the bible to follow god....you wont be able to understand it...yet you sit here day after day yapping and BASHING anyone that is a non christian...and at the same time you claim to be an AGONSTIC...that actually cracked me up when i read what you had told Mythra LOL...you are confused..BIG TIME!!!so run along...and go find yourself a real faith to follow....when you have done that...then get back to me...other than that Bolt (and I am sure you have heard this before) you are a complete and utter waste of time

Bolt the AGNOSTIC LOL that is the funniest thing I have ever heard


Ohh and Bolt...if I where so dead against the christian faith..umm why would I have my lil girl baptized as a christian??? people on here KNEW of this long before you entered these boards

A+ certified, I have my own reasons for believing in God, I don't take the belief just because I was told too, I've had my share of getting kicked in the nuts plenty of times to know something else is out there, I use my observation from what I see the world, people who buy the world like a ticket are in a world of trouble, there are some doors that just shouldn't be opened, I'm afraid if I told you my reasons and my own personal evidence, it would be nothing more than just words on your own behalf.

AC why can't you just have faith? You're just like the rest of us, no different. You say you need "cold hard evidence". WHY? I mean don't get me wrong, cold hard evidence would be great, but haven't you ever thought that maybe it's another one of Gods tests? Maybe he doesn't want to give you cold hard evidence, to see if you're able to have faith. My religion is called the BAHAI FAITH. Houston, we have a faith. What about the many prophets who have come and gone, isn't that enough evidence, or do you need some pictures of jesus?



Why would you even say something like that?

BW, Buddy, If you believe in God (no matter which one) you are not an agnostic - A Deist, maybe, a Christian probably (based on other comments) but definitely not an Agnostic. An Agnostic is not certain if God exists or not. I say this as a friend, not to belittle you. Mako

Hmmm intresting Bolt...you made a choice, so because you made a choice OF YOUR OWN...that makes it ok for you to bash others who ALSO like you made a choice of their own??


And you are sooooooo good at throwing fits at me claiming I hate chrsitianity...really...is that so...well you dont seem to read much do you?? becasue Irish and PA will tell you that BM right here has taken a stand for chrsitianity in her time here on UM...ohh yes..I have defended it to the back bone...recently........... BM DEFENDS THE CHURCH!!

And that aint the 1st time I took at stand for christianity...I had my lil girl baptized in a good christian church Bolt..over 5 months ago..long before I knew you....everyone that posts here a lot ..know of this..I made a thread on it once...

Just because I dont believe in the bible (MY CHOICE) does not mean I am going to make my lil girl be the same (MY CHOICE) she will follow her own path...I'll make sure of it

Put your brain into action before you talk to me again

see but exe11er, there is no proof that the prophets were real, except for the bible and other religious book which are not reliable. I mean dont get me wrong they could have been real im not sure, but there is no proof of them actually speaking with god

So you're telling me all these prophets, were just created from stories, or somehow made-up. Thankfully, there is photographic evidence that my prophet really existed. But that doesn't mean I doubt the existence of the other prophets. I'm pretty sure that over half of the world isn't believing in a lie.

exeller...that is something we all wont know untill the day we pop our clogs

Uh not true, it's the way you've expressed yourself, you bring down everything they believe in, and as far as getting on all of the "non-believers" that's a load of garbage, like I said, I search out the morality and manner of remarks being said, allot of which about 85% atheists around here have said things knowing they hold no remorse, and as I understand personally from scripture, all I can do is this:



Much in the universe is obscured BM, and I can't provide answers for everything knowing I'm human, there are certain things I abide by and some of my characteristics are agnosticism, perhaps I'm not fully 100% agnostic, because I know for myself what's out there and I don't need any other answers, I've gone through and read the "nonsense" (nonsense meaning from scripture) that atheists post here day after day after day and I'm probably one of the few here that can understand most of what it means, but I don't have all the answers, for the mostpart, I am an agnostic, and therefore I define myself as is.




No, those are the words I have been telling YOU I on the other hand have personally never been told so, nice try though.



You've already said that, why is it neccessary to always repeat yourself twice?



Hehehe, I already know this, do you want some type of merrit badge now? To me that means very little to what you say and how you say it, if I can recall, I remember that you found someway to crticize Christians while telling the story of how your daughter got baptized! It's a masked cover up is what your doing, but you can't seep past my perception, so please don't even try.

Thank you Mako, no offense taken.

I KNOW my religion is real, and that's good enoguh for ME

Again I never read your hate...its people like you bolt is why families break up....when they act and carry on just like you do...say what you like about me..but i'll tell you one thing...I KNOW what I want from my OWN choice of faith...I am happy for it...I get bashed by bigots like yourself...that includes my sister and my own father...you all use a realigious faith to BASH..thats all you are good for...whats funny is you didnt even understand what an AGONSTIC was untill Mako told you..heck I even told you in the other thread a few days ago...

In general though..what is up with Bigots???

All because I had my lil girl baptized in a christian church..I found out that my sister and dad are bigots...WHY??? this is something I dont think ANYONE can answer....I can hold my head up and say..I AM NOT A BIGOT..

You believe its real lol and hey GOOD FOR YOU...you should be proud and I am serious

I BELIEVE? What's that supposed to mean? Are you saying that I can never be sure

You quoted the word "Uh" your not paraphrasing again are you?



No I'm not, I get angry at things that man is doing to society! I'm ashamed to see the whole world in a blunder, if Jesus was real and really is the son of God, then I'm getting angry for a good purpose, you probably didn't read the part where Jesus went into the temple and trashed the place because they were marketing in the church did you?



Oh, alright then, here's your public speaking merrit badge:

YOU BELIEVE in your faith dont you??? nuff said

Ok now if Boltwave and BM dont stop argueing i say we get Irish to come in here and take away their Captain Crunch

but seriously stop argueing its getting really annoying

To tell you the truth, there is a big reason for why I believe in God so strongly :
( Keep in mind this story takes place about 100 years ago, also keep in mind that I'm a Bahai)

My great great grandfather was a Muslim. He was about 20 when Bahaullah declared himself a prophet. My g.g. grandfather's brother, who was also a Muslim, had just heard the news of Bahaullah arrival. He wanted to go see Bahaullah. He asked permission from his mother to go see Bahaullah. His mother was a skeptic, but gave him permission to go visit Bahaullah, and told him that if Bahaullah was the a real prophet, then he should become a Bahai and never look back. So my g.g.g. gets together with his 2 best friends who also want to go see Bahaullah. So they buy a camel (remember this was more that 100 years ago ), and start their long journey accross the desert. Half way accross the desert, my g.g.g. gets very sick, and dies. So my g.g.g.'s best friends continue accross the desert. After days, they finally reach their destination, which was the location of Bahaulla. When my g.g.g's companions met Bahaullah, the first thing Bahaullah spoke of was the death of my g.g.g. Bahaullah had known about my g.g.g's death before the 2 companions had even told him about it. Bahaullah was so knowing that he even knew my g.g.g's name, and the reason for why he came, before being told of them.

This is a demonstration of a prophets knowledge. I don't have to listen to just listen to someone who said they were a prophet. I have a reason.

What DP said.

Actually I did years ago...you seem to forget I was raised catholic...and when i posted you the link to where I defended the church..you ignored it..only out of your own ignorance..but I will always defend my old faith(i dont have to agree with something to defend it))...thing is when you find that your own sister and father act the bigot, because you turned your kid to a different church...thats when you stop and think...thank god I am not a bigot..

Bolt religion is a choice..one that everyone has a right to make...but because you are hungup on yours..you seem to show arrogance to those that dont act and think like you...do you think that is fair?...

So tell me..if you made a choice (remember IF) to be an athiest...would you act the same towards those who are religious??

I like to sit here and read up on other faiths..its good to know...some christains such as Irish, ragus, kaleson, PA, ramster, science101...are good decent people....if they where the main ones posting their faith on this very board...I would consider the faith myself..after all everyone changes their mind ...right??...my problem is, I let too many ignorant people put me off christianity...you would be one that would put me off it..no offence bolt..but ranting and throwing abuse would put anyone off..but as I said...its my fault for paying attention to those that do show ignorance....when I KNOW there are decent loving kind hearted christians on this board...ONES that I respect..and I will ALWAYS read what they have to say...I admire these people....what I dont admire is those that rant and show hate...

I could very well change my mind on the bible..who the heck knows?? I mean look at the amount of people today, have changed their minds?? some where once priests, ministers ect..and turned faith..some where athiests..and turned christian...that is a choice bolt..and for all I know I just might take a stand and do the same....

AWSOME and thank you so much for shedding some light on your faith..I think you should write some more...and I am serious...that was lovely to read

That's the only peep you're going to hear out of me for this week

aww shucks LOL well I hope you do talk more on your beliefs...so far they are intresting

That's why I was asking you that question.



That's your family's problem, that is none of my buisness, personally I don't care what type of Christian you are, as long as you know the history of it and understand it's meanings correctly.



I don't know, you should tell me, what about the idea as Christianity is looked upon as false? The prophecies are becoming more and more truthful! Things are heading for the worst, but people put their head in the sand like ostriches.



And why do you think that I have told the things I have to the non-believers? It's for this very reason.



So why do you always talk about the extremists if you hate them so much? I still remember that one thread about priests raping children and stuff and you talked as if they're supposed to be god-like or something, I learned just from attending a night session at a Catholic church (trying to convert) that priests are people like you and I, and they have problems, I'm not the type of person who would bash at them until they turn to dust, I would still show compassion for them, I still stand by "forgive and forget" apparently that's not a priority on these boards at all.



Your talking to me of no importance, "religion and spirituality is a choice" DUH! It is called FREE WILL.

OMG you two are never gonna let this go huh? A christian and a free-thinker. This is going to go on forever.......

Hey I'll be more than happy to drop this mindless debate, unfourtanetly when BM says she'll do something to change it only lasts for about a day or so (and BM if you'd like to prove your side of the point you don't have to reply to this at all.)

Its only mindless because I havent backed down


I didn't say I was a christian...!!!!!!!!!!! what made you think I was??


I LIKE christains..but I HATE DETEST extremists with a passion...in fact...your avarage christian dont like extremists..and if you paid FULL ATTENTION to a number of these threads ..then you would have noticed a few thread on extremists...and you would have read other christians thoughts on these extremists....a lot of christians are ashamed of extremists...I can understand as to WHY they are...especially when they make claims that God sent the Tsunami that killed all of those innocent children and their families...to put a stop to gay pride WTF?? And they make other evil claims that God sent AIDS to get rid of gays!!!!!!!!!! and I am suppoosed to respect people that do that...showing hate and making it look as if GOD has done this crap???? If you dont believe me..look them up and read them yourself..

There is a HUGE difference between a noramal christian..and a extremist...BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!!! and I dont care if you dont believe me...thats fine LOL but before you rant yet again...go check it out for yourself..google it if you like..you will see what I mean..but NEVER EVER class a good christian with an extremist...thats insulting christians


Hmm I think you have confused free will with personal choice...and a lot will tell you there is no such thing as free will...

PS I am glad not everyone see's your avarage christian as an extremist...because there are good kind christians here that are far from being an extremist...

Bolt, I gotta say, I have dealt with people like you many times before... People who defend christianity to the backbone... Just to set the record straight, if you want to beleive that god exists, fine... i don't have a problem with that, and noone should... But when you come on here blatantly bashing other people's beleifs, that's what gets me... Please have respect for others!

Whether God exists or not, I don't know... I'm keeping my mind open... But i don't see how pointing to a blue sky is proof that God exists, because it can all be attributed to science and logic. If I saw God with my own eyes; i'd admit he existed, but there is no way i'd worship him... I'm not like that... IMO if you are comfortable with what you beleive, that's all that matters... There is no 'right' or 'wrong' beleifs!

Amen to that

I see your --> and rais you a --

That makes sense.



I was talking about your family, not you, it was my input in that situation you were telling me of.



Oh my dear, I didn't think it would have to come to this, but I'm afraid I will have to let it out anyways.

Did you know who I lived with before I went off and moved in with my sister and brother in law? My radical Catholic Christian stepmother, and let me tell you something, to put it lightly, she was the beast himself, she would always hold me back and never give me a chance at anything, and after my parent's divorce she would say everything nasty about my biological mother when she was no Mother Teresa herself. Occasionally she would get so angry that she would grab me by the throat or smack me down till I hit ground floor, it was her digusting and psychotic words about the Christian God and her disease-like antics that made me become an atheist, or have great regret in God, and you want to know something else? She drove me so much to the end, that after 11 years, I finally went down into the kitchen room and grabbed a knife, put it under my pillow, and the next time she thought of getting too me, I was planning on stabbing her.

Because of this, I had a deep regret despite my hate for that woman, so I told my school about and got some of it out of my system, I wish my dad saw what a rude disgusting piece of deluted trash she was (and can be at times) instead my sister had to take me in otherwise I would have been sent to an insane asylum, pretty nifty huh?


But you know, it's not healthy whining about it either, I'm gone from her control that's all that matters, and now I'm a free person, hopefully now I will be able to develope the relationship with God whatever purpose may be laid out for me.



That's what you've been doing, why are you giving the advice I gave to you over to me?



Now that makes no sense, free will is choice, I don't see what in your right mind made you think different, if there was no free will, we'd be robots.

And think of it this way: God is of multiple dimensions yes? Free will can still exist, because whether if it's right or wrong, it still works out for it's own purposes.



That's what I've been telling you, when your remarks haven't specified, I pick up some very broad sweeping generalizations, just saying.

AHA I see it now...the whole time I have gave off about extremists...I have written christians...when I should have written extremists...hmmm I see it now..I see as to WHY you where annoyed..you thought I was insulting the christians..when I was really insulting the extremists...sorry for the mix up..I must admit..that was my fault...because I should have said extremists..and NOT christians...a lot of people tend to make that mistake

But I will go on record in saying...an extremists is not the same as a good christian...


UMM BOLT you are again confused...I never said there was no free will...if you read the end of my last post...you would see I actually wrote..that OTHERS will say there is no free will..

I believe in free will...but I know the difference between free will and a simple choice..but heck I have been down that road too many times and I dont care to discuss it again...the last person that told me free will did not exist wass PA LOL but thats history....

WOW I am sorry you went through that..honestly...to do that to a child is wrong..I am assuming you where just a child when she did this to you..this has hurt you..gee...im stuck for words bolty...other than I am sorry you went through that

Bolt, as much as it seems i like to argue with you, i gotta say... I had no idea... Please accept my humble apologies...

Yea..I agree no child should have to go through that torment...its sad...but maybe it has made bolty stronger??? *shrugs*

Well, i have a lot of respect for people who have gone through that sorta thing... i'll keep an open mind next time i read your posts Bolt.

Yea Bolt...now that you have released some things off your chest...it should be easier now to release more...we arent going to bash you...you need to unload at lot of it...that helps in the long run...cuz you are not the only one that has gone through something like this..you are brave to have put up with it..and you are brave to post about it...think about it Bolt..you have come a long way...its high time you released a lot of your feelings...no one will mock you for it..we will just listen...for some reason..I went back and read your post..I dont normally do that..but something told me to go back and read...I am glad I did....

and peace doth prevail...

You guys are surprised? This is the real world, and there's alot of people out there who go through this stuff as if it were a daily routine.

Anyway, boltwave dude, that's when you gotta get some help. My dad used to abuse my mother and me almost weekly. Now he's changed and I have forgiven him. Hell, where I used to live, I was even taking sh*t from the F*cking school teacher.

if my dad ever abused my mom or me.... i woulda kicked his ass. You gotta stand up for yourself in this world

Yeah, I'd make my fist into something smaller than a peanut, pull up my tidey whiteys, and kick my dads ass at 4 or 6 years old? My dad would kill. Anyway, it's good to get a smackin once in a while, it really teaches you some manners. I really think parrents should be able to hit their kids I'd never fight my dad back even if I was twice his size. They're your parents, you gotta accept their decisions.

well, not really me but if he ever hit my mom id kick his ass. i hate my dad..... i could kick his ass too. there was one time i thought he was gunna hit my mom and i got him in a full nelson and he started screamin at me lol good times

You and boltwae need to get together and do some yoga or somethin, ya both need help

i dont need help, its just the fact that i love my mom very much and i hate my dad.
and if he ever hurt her i would beat the living **** outa him. See i dont have issues im perfectly normal

Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is not a religion.

Atheism is a disbelief.

I don't believe in the Loch Ness monster.

That doesn't mean my disbelief is some kind of religion.

It just doesn't figure in. It's off topic, as it were.

If you really want to find out what atheists believe, and why they believe it, go here http://www.infidels.org/ and post your question.

Your dad's weak too?

Decide for yourself

Atheism is created by religion. You don't want to disbelieve in God but religion can make you feel you do.


But you must transcend religion and look toward real spiritual truth. God cares not for religion, God cares for you.

Hes not weak, i just work out a lot so i am stronger than him

It amazes me from reading these posts how utterly intolerant people are regarding ech others faiths how each persons little slice of god is the correct and most pious slice.

It is mentioned that atheists need explanation id like to comment on this first
Atheists don’t need explanations it just happens that a lot of things can be explained and are infact a lot more complicated than the simple answer as suggested

To attribute mechanisms and processes to god is the cop out I don’t have to think answer that lacks understanding and depth. and usually stems from not really understanding science or how it is applied to everyday mechanisms why is the sky blue why plants are green ect Now that’s not to say god doesn’t exists who knows I just think we as human beings a sophisticated animal attribute to many things to this ethereal concept a rock can be a rock without purpose or meaning it can be just a" rock"

It amuses me to see this blind capitulation that is so contrary to fact or observable evidence but hay Christian truth is a personal perspective and totally removed from fact but that cool with me

I really cant see why some see science and religion as opposing polls when in reality they can co exists perfectly its only the literal interpretation of the bible that hinders an otherwise harmonious unity I personally don’t know either way as to the validity of god but I can honestly say that nothing in science can disprove it in the same way nothing out side of the heads of believers can prove it

Another thing IV noticed from these forums is how people find there god in times of personal threat or trauma not all but quite a few. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that this could be part of a coping mechanism im not saying it is but it’s a possibility is it not?

And to me possibility needs to be explored before being dismissed something I don’t see happening very often when the Christian faith is concerned