So, people like rambo (thank you bringing this to my attention) think that religion has been the cause of death. I'd just like to remind people of hiroshima (200,000 people dead). I'd also live to remind you that religion is a cover for what wars are really fought
over....money, power...Not to mention that ww3 with be a nuclear war. So, which has
killed more, science or religion?

First of all, science has braught us the methodes. You might as well say religion isnt responsible for the deaths during the crusades, it was the swords.



If ww3 happens at all.



You want to compare the past thousands of years to Hiroshima? Do you really want to know the answer?

WW3 hasnt happened yet, and may never happen si stop talking about it. just because you believe and have a strong faith that it will diesnt mean it will. And what about hitler? all the jews he killed that was about religion and many more were killed there than in hiroshima

dude, omfg, your totally incapable of research arent you?

you are the poster-child for "science is the devil"

how about taking a look at the GOOD science has done. you would still be living in huts if it werent for science. no wait, the concept of huts is SCIENCE, in fact life is a concept of science

science isnt "chemicals and small stuff", its theory, its COMPREHENSION. its study, its research, its having an OPEN mind, its drawing YOUR own conclusions, its observation, its exploration, its everything, and its everywhere. you act like science is some separate part of thinking. thinking it self is science in action.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time, wasn't Jerusalem the gateway of trade with africa? So losing control over it meant losing control over all trade with the africa. That is the real reason for why the crusades were happened. It wasn't over religion. It was over wealth and power. The christians were lied to.



Same way athiests assume that religion is slowing us down.

ever heard of the straight of gibralter(sp?)? or the entire med. sea?
one could swim across the sraight or gib.

and even if it were for jeruselum(sp), they still used religion as a cover


what exactly is the point in that sentance? that we havent been slowed down? thats becuase the objective, rational people have separated from the religions

The Holocaust caused millions of deaths due to conflicting religious beliefs...

Oh and I suppose the could drap their cargo along with them while they were swimming. You wourself admit that religion was a cover. So you are admitting that man was doing the evil, and using religion. So please explain to me, how has religion killed anyone?

Oh, so what do we have here. Thiests are being killed for their beliefs. So tell me, how has religion killed anyone, when it is man doing all the killing.

Oh, well one group believes one thing, another believes another so they kill each other to make them convert or to get rid of them. Its not that difficult child. How is there any other way for religion to cause pain without man doing it. Shouldn't your allmighty God step in and save everyone? Whats the deal?

theres this awesome contraption that some guy invented a long time ago....i thinks called a boot...no...a baat...no......a BOAT, thats it! its pretty nifty, you should check it out.


and why did they want jerusalem? for money? and why did they want money? for RELIGION. even if they used it as a cover, it was still going to religion

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, that is quite possibly the WORST argument youve made all night, yeah, the theists were killed...........BY OTHER THEISTS!!!!!!!! if religion werent around the attacking theists wouldnt have have killed them. roflmao, that was your bad

Well...by that logic Science hasn't killed anyone either.

1) Navigation

2) Not everyone can afford a boat

3) Why the f*ck would anyone take a boat when they could get around from a trail leading right to africa?

Please explain why religion would need money?



Weren't thiests killing because they were being told to by pope whats his name? So you're saying that in the course of history, religion has been the only source of war? you're going to have to make that last part a little clearer. I didn't understand.

I would also appreciate it if you would stop insulting me. I'm trying to argue here. Not insult you.

Actually, religion has become corrupt. Can you explain how science has become corrupt?

I don't know, maybe by the prophets actually telling us to kill. Because if he didn't, he would know who the bad people are.

you tell me? churches are tax exempt, yet you continue to put money in that little basket that they carry at church.



1) wow, a half mile gap to navigate, that must be tough

2) were not talking about everyone, were talking about the church, which had more money and man power than they knew what to do with

3)becuase the boat route is a half mile, and the trail is thousands of miles



im talking about the holocaust, in which no popes were involved.



your insults are implied, and mine are more sarcastic jabs, than insults. i would also like to let you know that i still respect you as a person and a debater. "no hard feelings" kinda thing (i will stop my sarcasm though)

religion hasnt become corrupt, the catholics have become corrupt. sometimes i wish i was the pope, i would be the most powerful man in the world. just be like " Hey God told me that Poland is evil go take it over for me!" ( no offence to polish people, just the first country i thought of)

The money goes to jesus? I didn't realize that. It goes to corrupt religious leaders. Yes it does. Even though they'll probably use alot of money to build more churches or something.

2) Actually, I was, including the church.

3)Depends on where you're going. And how does a half a mile turn to "thoudands of miles"?

HMMM...the holocaust. Here we have another case of man corrupting religion, and turning it into a source of pain. Not the opposite.

and so the entire church system is corrupt, back then, and today. i suppose it isnt religion as a whole. good show, you got me there (not sarcasm, lol)


then you prove your original question wrong. you said "Not everyone can afford a boat" i said the church had all the money they needed.


the half mile refers to the crossing of the straight, and the thousands do indeed depend on where your going, and where your leaving from.

religion is what made him do it, if he werent raised religious, it wouldnt have happened. i admit thats a shakey argument, but still...

Perhaps so, but that would have been at the higher levels. So you admit that the christians were lied to... what were these lies, hmm? What did the christians do as a result of these lies? I think we both know the answer, and it involves a lot of bloodshed...



Navigation wasnt much of a problem.



Those who could start a war certainly could afford a boat...



Perhaps to avoid a needless war...?

if you belive in god/jusus than you would never post tread such as this, because jusus himself was told that "PEOPLE WILL KILL IN HIS NAME" sooo *COUGH*

Don't like science, get off the computer join the Amish. (Hope you like horses. You haven't lived until you've been kicked by a horse.) There is a lot of science in a computer. Science is a tool it doesn't kill anyone until a person uses it to kill for whatever reason. When you really look at numbers Science has saved more people than any religion. How many of us would have died in childhood if it wasn't for science. I know I would have. If you live in a developed country everything you touch or do has science as it base. Personally science is what gives me hope that they will cure this d*mn MS.

I would like to correct one thing. The debate isn't religion vs science it is christianity vs science. My religion gets along very well with science, thank you.

Wait a minute...aren't you the same one that posted the picture that had to do with the Bahai girls being killed because of their faith? And, on a different thread you stated that where you grew up, you would be stoned or hanged if you didn't believe in god? Weren't you blaming another religious group for these killings? I think that was also the same thread where you stated this:

QUOTE(exe11er @ Jun 25 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]1245602[/snapback]

Uh uh uh, why must science and religion always be at war:

And in a different thread you had this to say:

QUOTE(exe11er @ Jun 22 2006, 09:56 PM) [snapback]1242466[/snapback]

Why do science and religion always have to be at war. Science should end where faith begins. They are two seperate things.

And yet, you start another science vs. religion thread.

NEITHER....MAN is responcible...if man kills in the name of religion...he is using religion as a feeble excuse to kill..

Religion does not kill...it never has, as far as I am concerned...its MAN...always remember MAN is the most hateful deadliest living thing on the face of this earth....lol not your science or religion

What I notice constantly in discussions such as this is that when one brings up the evils committed under science (A-bomb, nuclear weapons), the natural response from people is that science was just a tool. it is neither good nor evil, and it is those who use it that determine its effects.

To this point, I agree. Totally and wholeheartedly.

Then in a case of what (imo) is extreme double standards, often the followup response is that religion is evil (look at all the wars fought in its name, all the people killed, witches burned, cultures lost), when my natural response is that religion is also just a tool, neither good nor evil. it is those who use it that determine its effects.

Though I will say that in most cases, religion is used as an excuse for war, when the real purpose is something else entirely - wealth, power or land.

Regards, PA

LOL PA I just said that ...religion is only used as an excuse to kill.....but religion is not really responcible for killing...MAN is...not religion...MAN...not science..MAN...man has used both religion and science to kill and destroy...that is a fact

haha, you're right BM I guess I was in the middle of composing my reply when you jumped in

For those that believe science is innocent, check out this book;
In the Name of Science: A History of Secret Programs, Medical Research, and Human Experimentation
by Andrew Goliszek
Link



Often I see that the word religion is singled out as the great evil and plight of mankind. Wars murder and whatever all started because of religions, is far too simple of an explanation. Remember that religion by definition is only a structured form of belief and actions that is shared and practiced by others. Bearing that in mind then politics’ and philosophy are also forms of religious/belief as well as our government structures that are the foundation of civilization. Our believes, encompass all religions, politics, philosophy and art and if you lay blame on only one part of human belief systems while ignoring the others your are simply using it as an excuse to hide your personal biases. And as such you are denying the very core of human civilization.
Irish

Actually, that's another way of saying Everyone can't efford a boat.



Yeah, they were told to by pope what's his name. Even though they were exactly what they were told they shouldn't do. So tell me, did religion tell them to kill, or the pope. Big diff there. Those who don't want to can walk.



Like I said, science, just like religion, can do bad or good. I love science, and I love religion. But on this forum, it seems there are people that seem to think religion can only do bad. Actually, my religion gets along with science very well. When did it become christianity vs. science.

You're wrong there pal. Science can save you physicaly, but not spiritualy. If it wasn't for religion, we would have never known about the true God.



Well let me tell ya. During the iranian revolution, alot changed. People got brainwashed, and the new president was like a modern day hitler. He turned the country into a muslim crazy nation. Anyway, getting to my point. Yeah you're right. I thought islam was a blood-hungry religion, but that guy pm'd me a whole bunch of stuff on islam, and i read it, and I'm glad to say I'm now more informed and see islam as a less blood hungry religion. Anyway, one of things he told me is that, muhammed has said that everyone should have their own beliefs, no matter how absurd they are. So anyway. If the muslims kill Bahais
becuase of their religion, then that means they are denying muhammed. The real reason for why they kill so much, is to keep the population under control, and keep them scared. So that they never think of protesting. When they protest, things get ugly, I've seen videos.

I started this thread because people always say that religion kills, well just wanted to point out who science has killed. but yes you're right. My religion is on sciences side.



So women don't kill?




Yup

The major difference is that no one has ever killed in the name of science, but literally millions have been killed in the name of religion, especially in the name of the God of Abraham's three bloody children! The Israelites supposed wiped out whole cities in the name of Jehovah, Christianity has killed millions over the last 2000 years and Islam has kill millions also in th last 1400-1500 years! Yet no one has claimed that they killed in the name of Physics, Mathematics, Biology, Anthropology or any other science! That is the difference and there is no way religion can get around it!

Funny how they killed in the name of someone that never actually told them to kill
Anyway. Moving on.....science can be used to kill more people in one day than religion in its whole history, correct? After ww3 is over, because of science, over 1/3 of the worlds population will be wiped out.

stop talking about ww3!!!! it hasnt even happened and possibly never will!!!

And it will probably be in the name of Jesus or Allah!

lol, another science is the devil thread. this is not even worth arguing about but i shall be reading for laughs at work. if you christian nut-jobs really think about it, science is responsible for every death of every living being that ever lived. that doesn't matter though, saying science kills makes no sense and you are dumb.

Why is that? Well, I'll admit there are some people out there who will use religion as an excuse for war.......



This isn't a science vs. religion thread. Nor is it a "science is the devil mama" thread. There are alot of people who think religion has killed. I'm just sayin, hey look at science. But like I said earlier, my religion gets along with science very well, there's just some people who don't get along with religion.

Science can be described as the canvas of war. Just ask the people of Hiroshima or Nagasaki if they benefited from the art of science.
Irish

Just as they benefited from Medical Science afterwards, or the death toll would have been much much higher. Also, the bombing was not done in the name of science, instead in the name of freedom and yes, in the name of vengence (which Jehovah says is his).

ok, how abou we settle this. how about we agree that science and religion have both killed a whole lot of people and just move on with life

I thought you would have known that when one says MAN...like MANKIND...it means both male and female...and yea women do kill...the only reason why a lot of them are unheard of, is because women are more devious and can cover their tracks...thats a fact, but name me one woman that is responcible for creating a nuclear bomb? Name me a woman that invented the gun?...Name me a woman that invented other weapons...and for every last female you can name, i'll bet you anything, a male has done a lot worse....but hey thats a whole different topic altogether


MAN as in all of MANKIND... = male and female...are responcible for killings...NOT religion and NOT science....get it now???

Women do not need weapons of mass destruction they just have “The Look”

LOL too true

Oh is it really? Anything to back up that claim?

wars are fought with weapons, not psychic powers. science does not cause anything, science is a way of understanding our reality based on physical evidence/facts.

Well, if Jesus is ever going to return, then ww3 is going to happen, along with a whole lota dumb sh*t.



Yeah like people are ever going to agree on one thing.



LOL I know, I was just pushing your buttons, that's why I had this face after my comment.



So what about fat ugly girls?

Are you trying to say that women dont kill??? that only men do it?? we only ever hear of men killing, becuase men get themselves caught...we dont hear of too many (please note that I am not saying they dont kill) women getting caught...now why is that kratos?? Why dont the women get caught as often as the men??..think carefully...on a wide scale from 0-100...90% of the time all I have ever heard of on the news is a man killing....I have heard of women killing...but nowhere near as much as men

Ohh and who was it that invented the nuclear bomb?? was it a woman?? Who was it that invented the gun...a woman??? Who was it that invented WAR?? a woman?? am I missing something here? Who runs the united states? a woman?? lol Was hitler really a woman?? hows about Saddam? or Bin ladden? where they drag queens?? LOL

Some of the most famous of serial killer we know of today are nearly all men...please note I said NEARLY...not meaning ALL...but I wonder how many males will twist my words...lets see.?..

We all know how women manipulate the judge, lol.

I am sick and tired of people saying that you can either have science or religion. You can have both, amazing, eh?

Religion does not kill. It is some people who follow the religion that kill. Disagreements in religion can kill. Disagreements in anything can kill.

Science does not kill. It developes new theorys, technologies and practices in medicines and a whole lot of other useful stuff. Some of these can be used to kill, some of them can help. It is the user of new technologies and advances that can kill.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -Albert Einstien

Yet some people think otherwise.....

if your refering to me, i know they can work side by side, and they do. however some religious people think "science is the devil" and whatnot, and i get pretty heated when they do