God created everything.

Not quite, you need to really look at the impact of that implication:

If demons are maquerading as aliens, they are conducting an extremely elaborate scheme on mankind.

If demons are masquerading as aliens whose messages seem to support any belief as long as it guides you away from Biblical truth, then that means Biblical truth is of paramount importance to humans.

If demons are masquerading as aliens then what you believe and accept will have eternal consequences for you and yours.

Don't dismiss this point lightly.

aND NO CHRISTIAN ON THIS SITE IS A PROPHET ...

Oh really? He did? I must have blinked when you presented the proof of this...

....are you sure about that?

when i refer to 'God creating everything' its the easiest way to for myself to describe "where we came from".I must have blinked when somebody cleared up the debate as to where we truly come from.Please steer me in the right direction stella.

Oh really? He did? I must have blinked when you presented the proof of this...

Hmmm.....let's see, what was I going to say on this matter, ah yes, can you prove it was sheer nothingness that made everything?

Atheists dismiss god to be a god, how very reliable.

If this is correct, then these fallen angles are the very same beings which theorists such as Sitchin and Icke believe are alien beings that created us.

Not just a quick conclusion I personally came to. Reading into this area has opened up areas of research that I had never heard of, such as these Sumerians.

Nope, but then again I never made the claim that sheer nothingness made everything...

You were saying...?

Of course, thats exactly the case.

I've asked this before, but what makes people so sure daemons even exist?

If you believe in God, then I'd say there's no reason to disbelieve in demons, try asking him perhaps?

Okay then, what's a better way of explaining how the universe started? It just "ignited" didn't it? By what? Something potential that was before that? What was before that? And before that? And before that?

You don't have to say those specific words, you being an atheist says it all.

Well, what would you call it? Atheists seem to think they know everything

then state "the universe is too big to fathom"

what a load of crike

it's just people dismissing the supernatural so their intellect can replace it and thus they can explain everything in their own superiority

but even that doesn't cut the cake from every angle, does it?

Alright, I will steer you in the right direction zirc... You have no proof that god created everything, and you have none that god even exist... so that statement which you affirmed as an absolute isnt infact an absolute, it is a belief, and you should identify it as such.

You have just done the same yourself.

You think that it is an absolute that,it is a belief

You have no proof god didn't create everything.

So maybe you should state that ,in your belief my statement is just a belief.

I didn't see any posts from you stating aliens can't be demons cause demons don't exist.

Stellar my point is you homed in a particular line i wrote yet you didn't take a step back and say anything about demons not existing.

You did state an absolute,"It is a belief"

you would be wrong if god is proven to exist.

when i stated god created everything,that only means god as i understand him.Talking

I have every right to speak in absolutes because of my own experiences,wether you like it or not.

If demons exsisted...how come they are not seen??? after all they are protrayed as evil right?? ones who disobey God ect right?? then wouldnt they let themselves been seen??? wouldnt they go around creating terror??
Me thinks demons are made up to scare people into following the bible IMO

Well from now on i will try to remember to put 'i believe' in front of all my posts.If stating an absolute is belittling and imposing then the world is in trouble.Personally i think your wrong about that one.Wouldn't you call the dismissal of religion as just a belief belittling when for some people it is very real,not just a belief.And don't you feel it is imposing on those people ,for whom it is very real to be told constantly,prove it.They don't have to prove anything,they are one step ahead they already have a reality.Not sitting on a fence.

i wasn't insulting you i was making my point

Sorry kahrie,that was directed at stellar i forgot to put his quotes in.

Wouldn't you call the dismissal of religion as just a belief belittling when for some people it is very real,not just a belief.

And don't you feel it is imposing on those people ,for whom it is very real to be told constantly,prove it.

They don't have to prove anything,they are one step ahead they already have a reality.Not sitting on a fence.

good point BM aparently demons hide in the shadows and do there evil work on humans or something like that lol demons are the devil's minions who work for him and help him spread evil around the world. you could be right they could be just taught to scare people into the faith and stop people straying from the 'truth'

Not really. I dont care if you believe in something, you're free to believe it, just as I'm free to disbelieve it. It is wrong to imply that your belief or my belief is fact though.
Not when they talk in absolutes about their beliefs... because if they talk in absolutes about their beliefs, it implies they have proof.
Oh please. Disbelieving in god is "sitting on a fence"?

you can talk in absolutes when you have proof.

While many people like yourself are sitting around saying" prove this and prove that and you can't say that".A large percentage of the the world has begun there journey and moved on leaving people like yourself at the starting point wondering what is going on,and asking age old unanswerable questions that cannot be answered in general conversation.

In my travels around the world this statement is well accepted.

I think you will find a statement like "prove it"is the one that will get you alienated.

Indeed. You can talk in absolutes when you have proof. If you dont have proof, dont talk in absolutes though, because it equates to lying.
I think your view of the religious situation is a bit skewed. Atheism is growing day by day. It would be more precise to say people have moved along leaving people like YOU at the starting point (remember... religion was the starting point in almost everything in terms of knowledge)
They are well accepted among religious people because it does not challenge their beliefs. Go to an atheist or agnostic and say that. It would be the same thing as going to a muslim nation and saying "Christianity is the true religion." or vice versa.
I've already told you what I've found.

calling people liars is the best thing so far because if you you havn't noticed by your standards you are calling every one on here a liar because at one point or another in these forums most people have claimed an absolute.

If you are an atheist you have no standing on religion yet you accept religion as the starting point of knowledge

don't be cowardice and put what you really think on the line and find out if you have any true support out there,or are you afraid to find out if YOUR faith is a bit skewed.

Your sounding a bit shaky by calling me a liar.
You have no basis for that, it is only a frustrated response.

My statement was only "god created everything"which is not alienating.

YOURS was" prove it "which is alienating,

I wasn't talking about making agnostics and the rest see my point ,just that when you are in the real world and there are people willing to kill you for there belief,saying god is great will get you home,saying "prove it" will put you in a position where you find the true meaning of" Alienated."

I think you misunderstand what this is about. Its not about never using absolutes, its about not using absolutes about such a diverse subject as religion.
Not the starting point of knowlegde, but the starting point in mans quest for knowledge. For a long time when something was unknown, religion was used to explain it... up until someone stood up to the religious explanation and challenged it with logic and facts. Religion was often counter productive in the search for such knowledge. The trend, which has been established thoughout thousands of years of history, is that knowledge tends to take man away from the religious explanations, because he is more adequately equipped to answer questions and not seek religious excuses.
Cowardice? My beliefs are not so feeble as to need any support from others. They can stand just fine on their own if need be. I understand why you wouldnt understand that though, if you need others to believe as you do and wave in the wind with you.
Quote where I've called you a liar.
Oh no? Have you visited any of the other threads in which absolutes were discussed?
Oh? How so? It was a natural response to your claim. If you claim something is fact, I'd very well like to see proof. Using absolutes is on par.
So would saying that your opposite belief is fact.

OK, so saying God created everything is an unprovable absolute based on belief.

Using the Scientific Method, saying the universe began when an infinitesimal kernel of energy exploded due to a quantum disturbance and out of this infinitesimal kernel of energy all the matter, dark matter, and energy in the universe burst forth and began heating and cooling until all the galactic clusters, galaxies, stars, and planets were formed is also an unprovable absolute based on belief.

So, whether Christian, Moslem, Jew, agnostic, or atheist, we are all starting from a point of belief, not proof. Let's move on.

The challenge is, based on the FACT that none of us can PROVE or claim that someone else has PROVED our pet belief, can we have a discussion which will lead to an intelligent conclusion regarding the belief that aliens seem to share many qualities with the entities identified as demons throughout history.

If Aliens where Demons...then shouldnt ET have been rated R (18) ???

aliens are not demons!! "aliens" are beings from another planet that is capable of holding life. demons are evil beings created by the devil that have no soul. there is a difference.

When you say that somthing that someone has said equates to lying you would have to forgive them for thinking you are calling them a liar ,no matter how much you dress it up.

As you get older you will find that waving in the wind (as you put it )is actually a unifying state of being when you meet others on there journey.

I think our difference here is simply experience.
There was a time when i was an atheist and had very similar views to you.

I always wanted proof and didn't realize that if i wanted it i would have to go and get it.

Using the Scientific Method, saying the universe began when an infinitesimal kernel of energy exploded due to a quantum disturbance and out of this infinitesimal kernel of energy all the matter, dark matter, and energy in the universe burst forth and began heating and cooling until all the galactic clusters, galaxies, stars, and planets were formed is also an unprovable absolute based on belief.

So, whether Christian, Moslem, Jew, agnostic, or atheist, we are all starting from a point of belief, not proof.

So, Stellar, as an atheist, if I was able to present you with a being who, for argument's sake looked like a grey, but was willing to admit to you that it was in reality a fallen angel, what would you make of that?

So, Stellar, as an atheist, if I was able to present you with a being who, for argument's sake looked like a grey, but was willing to admit to you that it was in reality a fallen angel, what would you make of that?

A liar is someone who knowingly tells false truths. I dont believe you realised that talking about a belief in absolutes is similar to lying, so I wouldnt call you a liar.
Changing beliefs to be in lign with the popular belief is a unifying state of being? Of course its unifying, because you're attempting to be like others!
And there was a time when I was christian and had similar views to you.
Then you didnt have similar views to me.
Indeed it is unprovable. Thats why its called a theory... science freely admits that.

(BTW, you kind of got the process wrong...)
Indeed, which is why its wrong for any of those to talk about the subject in absolutes.

Like i said no matter how you dress it up you are still calling people liars.

And only a minority would agree with you that talking in absolutes is similar to lying.

It is hard to talk to people like yourself because you don't commit to anything.

But in the end there is nothing to be gained from your posts.

when you have traveled the world a couple of times get back to me and see if you still think the same .

there was a time when i always thought i was right too.

Here is just something I found on the net that I would like to share

We have seen the belief in UFOs, aliens, and even alien abductions grow to a point that this country, no, the world now believes more in ET than God.
Between Star Trek, Star Wars, Aliens, ET, CE3K, and newer movies and t.v. shows like X-Files and dark Skies, we are getting programed more and more to believe the government is covering up the truth and aliens visit us and abduct us.

Not true. Not aliens, but demons. What better lie could Satan facilitate on us, than to get us out of our belief and into a fear? Away from faith in God, and fear of some little grey being abducting us.
When we know it is demons, this hurts Satan, because if there are demons, there are Angels. If there is Satan, there is God. So, Satan needed a vehicle to remove his idenity and those involved with him off center. What better lie than aliens?
30 years ago you would have been put away if you said you believed in UFOs, much less had been abducted. But today, it is accepted, the lie about aliens, and abductions, more people today believe in aliens and UFOs, than God. If it were not true, then more would be spent on God and His kingdom, than on aliens and UFOs. You do not see the movie Matthew done from the Gospel Matthew as a blockbuster. And t.v. series based on God, you don't see them getting the best time slots, or having spin offs of spin offs. Ok, Touched By An Angel, is the exception, but there is no mention of Jesus in any show. I am not knocking any of these shows, most of which I watch. But they are all, except Touch By An Angel, lies...to confuse us and program us.
You don't think you are programed by t.v.? Then turn it off, and see how long you can go. And if you can go for more than a week, notice what items you purchase or who you believe in. I bet you it is all based on what you have seen on t.v.. And the sad part is, people don't see this or believe it, and when they do, they say "Oh I can handle it". Do you really think advertisers would spend billions a year for such short spots (30-60 seconds), if the ads did not work and get you to buy their product?
And if a 30 - 60 second spot seen a few times will do this, what will 24 - 48 minutes series do to you.
Read what Jesus said;

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

"If [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect" you and I are the elect, and could He (Jesus) have meant a belief in aliens and abuctions. Isn't the belief in these things, based on great wonders and signs? Have you noticed how early drawings of demons look so much like aliens today? Maybe it is not abductions, but demonic possessions. I leave you with this to think about.

Are they aliens or demons that people are saying have abducted them?

Are they UFO's or gateways to another dimension?

Take into account that demons of the crusade period and earlier look similar to the aliens that are now being reported.

Remember Paul said

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Cor 12:2 (KJV)

The third heaven by this account is the heaven, and the first heaven is the sky we see with our eyes. It is supposed that the second heaven between our sky and the heaven, is the place where Satan is located.

In Revelation

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 12:10-12 (KJV)

Satan is cast down, not before Christ, not after Christ arose again, but after there were brethren Satan could accuse.

So the second heaven being another dimension and that being where Satan and the demons are, then when they travel from that dimension into ours from above could appear as light or imagine a door opening, the light shooting across the sky, stopping and then disappearing again. This could account for a lot of UFO's.

Now think about it, does Satan want man kind to know he really exist? No, of course not, because if people knew he was real they would also know God was real also. So the best thing is to use another way to mess with us than actual demons and demon possessions. And what better than alien abductions and alien experiments and torture. Think about what Satan is after, he is after our souls and to cut us off from God. If we are in fear we are cut off from God. And think about the abductions, they are tortured, experimented on and a lot of stories about reproduction. Now let's take the last first, reproduction.

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:1-2 (KJV)

We know that by the account in Job that the sons of God refer to angels, or in this case fallen angels.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 2:1 (KJV)

So if the sons of God (fallen angels) were marring daughters of man, then we would have a perversion and that is part of what Satan is about and is an offenses to God.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:3-6 (KJV)

Why else would God repent of man kind, what would of grieved Him more than the two marring and perverting what He made.

Think about it, alien abductions fit the total make up of Satan, torture, reproducing a perversion of man, and making people live in fear.

But there is another reason this fits Satan. The more we believe in some alien race that is powerful enough to come here from great distances and do what they are doing it causes a fear of them and a lack of believe of God.

And when rapture happens, and it will, the best excuse Satan's puppet the anti-christ will have is that we all were abducted. And this will fit with the need of having the number of the beast implanted in man. He will be able to convince those left behind that if they receive the implant then they could be tracked and found and not totally disappear as the first batch did. Then when the second rapture happens this will just push more to accept the Mark.

You do not believe in the rapture? Did you know there have been others already!

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Gen 5:24 (KJV)

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV)

And what about the many who were dead and arose again?

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

matt 27:52-53 (KJV)

Remember God did not have the Jews suffer under all the plaques Egypt suffer under. So why should we, tribulation is a time of getting right with God, it is the last call, the last chance.

First He removes those who are His own and then allows those left for the first 3.5 years to see what it is like with man ruling without God, so those who are on the fence will finally wake up and see that man without God is not the way. Then He removes them, and the last 3.5 years is the time where it is man with Satan in charge and not God, to see that Satan is not the way. And then a final rapture and then the wrath of God falls on those remaining.

29 Imediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

matt 24:29 (KJV)

Go and read Revelation and what all happens basically it is described in the above verse.

Think of tribulation as a time for God to get man's attention, like taking a 2 by 4 to a mule to get it to move.

But the point is that the whole believe in aliens, UFO's and abductions is serving Satan, the belief of this has grown in the past 40 years at such a rate that is shocking.

SOURCE: Part 1
Part 2

Here is a video about how aliens could be demons

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1565744367577847884

Maybe there simply wasnt anything before that... it just always existed... as you religious folk say...

Yes, ofcourse... I believe I'm god because I'm atheist.

Really? Where have I done so? I have not yet spoken about my beliefs without clearly marking that they are my beliefs and not absolutes. I've seen you and other religious people talk about their beliefs in absolutes...

As opposed to the valid "god works in mysterious ways"?

I can just as easily say that religion is just people dismissing the natural due to a lack of intellect so that they can feel special and superior... But I dont go around saying that, do I?

Nothing does. Not even religion.

What is the reason. If I believe in God, then I'd only see reasons to disbelieve in daemons.

But what was that Stellar? How does dust just "exist" there to begin with?

How many times must it be said that God is not an object or a being by limited bounds?

why do we even ask such a question as to where he came from?

He's the creator of creation!

I'm going to vote for intelligent blueprint designs rather than "it just existed as mere material."

I'm saying the nature of the atheist is superiority

it's elevating people to such a point where their intellect can explain the very fabric of the universe!

atheists say there was no god to begin with, and they want to explain everything by their own scientific means

thus the nature of the common atheist is to dismiss the supernatural and almighty for putting themselves in that position of knowledge, hopefully you see where I'm going with this.

Well, you just stated your perspective as an absolute right there.

unfourtanetly science seems to come up with an attempt to crudely do so!

It dismisses all else by explaining it in it's own elements

there isn't much difference from a Scientologist and an atheist you know.