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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Metaphysics, Psychology & Psychic Phenomena
JayMark
Have you seen the movie? I have it on my PC it's not very hard to find (I used limewire).

Either this man has supernatural powers or it's a special effect edited from what they really filmed. Or maby he's having a trick of some sort that I don't see.

What about the crowd on the Wall? Were they witness or just part of the "scene"? If they were witness it means it couldn't have been video editing but that's exactly the question.

What do you think about it?
Kazuma
He's a magician, and magic doesn't exist. Therefore, it's just a trick.
JayMark
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 28 2006, 12:21 AM) [snapback]1249309[/snapback]

He's a magician, and magic doesn't exist. Therefore, it's just a trick.


Ok but that dosen't anwser the question. How did he do it? If you think it's a trick then it means you have a theory no?
Kazuma
QUOTE(JayMark @ Jun 27 2006, 11:27 PM) [snapback]1249316[/snapback]

Ok but that dosen't anwser the question. How did he do it? If you think it's a trick then it means you have a theory no?


No, I don't, but I know that he's a magician, and I honestly don't believe magic, magick, mayrflogncjuemfckaie, any of that, being real.

What did he even do?
kariudo115
david copperfield is a magician, dont put more into his tricks than there is, its like chris angel...
JayMark
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 28 2006, 01:15 AM) [snapback]1249357[/snapback]


What did he even do?


He walked through the Great Wall of China.

I saw the video. I first want to know if the video is edited. If not then how can he do this trick? How can he make such an illusion?
muddyfrog
I don't know, but he is really good at illusion.

All based on your perception, or lack there of.
Kazuma
If he could really phase through things, he'd do it without that stupid curtain box thingy and then he'd be the most famous person in the world.
Pagan_2k
He also made the statue of liberty disappear, a b-52 surrounded by army guys, done teleportation etc,etc.
Now while I can understand that most illusionists use tricks and fakery to achieve their "magic", there must be an upper limit to what can be done.
If copperfield is a wires and mirrors type of guy, it must be pretty big mirrors to make something like the statue of liberty disappear.

The other solution is that he uses editing, the easiest way is just to watch the crowd in slo-mo. If you see things jumping or disappearing, the video is edited.

Personally, I believe that magic exists, and if ,for example, copperfield could really do these things magically, it would be logical that he would say its a trick and use the curtains and smoke, etc. instead of just doing it.
Kazuma
As I said, if it was some kind of psychic powers, or even magic, I'm sure he'd just do them in plain view and become incredibly famous.
Bio-Mage
Mr David Copperfield is a rather outdated illusionist that did quite a few tricks like the wall. He was also the one that made the statue of Liberty allegedly dissapear and the greatest achievement of his carreer was his own banishment of the public eye quite a few years back.
IceStorm
QUOTE(Bio-Mage @ Jun 28 2006, 02:39 AM) [snapback]1249469[/snapback]

Mr David Copperfield is a rather outdated illusionist that did quite a few tricks like the wall. He was also the one that made the statue of Liberty allegedly dissapear and the greatest achievement of his carreer was his own banishment of the public eye quite a few years back.

im going to have to agree with everyone here, magic isnt real, david copperfield does ilusions that are not real... although the statue of liberty dissapearing was real good, thats besides the point. like biomage said he was banished from the public eye quite a few years ago and since then there have been others like criss angel that have taken his place. by the way, what do you all think about criss angel, i have watched alot of his videos and cant find how he does anything. any ideas?
JayMark
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 28 2006, 03:11 AM) [snapback]1249442[/snapback]

As I said, if it was some kind of psychic powers, or even magic, I'm sure he'd just do them in plain view and become incredibly famous.


He's already incredibly famous. Don't you think that maby his goal is to be known as the greatest magician of all times and not a psychic that can phase through solid walls?

Anyhow, I just want to know how he did that. You're all saying it's just an illusion and than magic isn't real, I got it already, but nobody gives any kind of theory of how could such illusion have taken place in front of a crowd the sort.

How could we see the wall, then some staff guys put a thin tissue membrane in front of the wall and we see David's arms pulling out of the wall pushing the fabrics and then going back into solid matter before they take the membrane off? I know it's just an illusion but just tell me how...
Celumnaz
I didn't see the trick, but sounds like something you'd need a hidden assistant for.
Kazuma
QUOTE(JayMark @ Jun 28 2006, 01:58 PM) [snapback]1250009[/snapback]

just tell me how...


We don't know and we're not meant to know, but do some research, you might find something. original.gif
JayMark
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 28 2006, 03:05 PM) [snapback]1250026[/snapback]

We don't know and we're not meant to know, but do some research, you might find something. original.gif


"We're not meant to know."

Nicely said. I don't think we're meant to know either.

But the thing is I've done quite some research now and can't find anything else than comments like posted above ("it's not magic, magic dosen't exist, it's just an illusion etc.").

Seems like nobody here has the slightest idea neither.

If you think it's really just an opinion I want to know why. If your reason is "because magic dosen't exist" I want you to tell me how you know it dosen't exist. How can you be 100% sure that such phenomenons can't be.

So far you just expose your concept but have nothing to support it.

If you want to make me beleive for an example that it's just a trick of illusion you'll have to expose some evidence or facts that at least try to explain the thing. I am not saying I think it's true but the way I see it I have more evidences pointing towards the fact that it might be true rather than the opposite.

I don't know if you get my drift?
Kazuma
I get it all right, and I can say with absolute, pure, 100% confidence... that I got nothing.

I have no proof, no data, no experiments, no anything.

I don't think it's real, and that's good enough for me. You are, however, free to whatever you want. There's no way I can stop you. original.gif
IceStorm
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 28 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]1250112[/snapback]

I get it all right, and I can say with absolute, pure, 100% confidence... that I got nothing.

I have no proof, no data, no experiments, no anything.

I don't think it's real, and that's good enough for me. You are, however, free to whatever you want. There's no way I can stop you. original.gif

exactly, everyone here is free to think what they want to and if thats what you believe then im not gunna try and be like all the skeptics on this site that try and convince you otherwise, im just going to let you think what you will. but if you do find anything new about this subject than post it, im sure lots of people here would like to hear the updates that you find. thumbsup.gif
kariudo115
i just mostly belive that its an illusion because... hes a magician, their PAID to make really good illusions, like chris angel,,, paid... hudini,,,, paid... ect.... its a job, and one that their really good at, your not supposed to figure it out, thats why their FAMOUS magicians, because its hard to figure out...
Roxie
Yep, theres no proof. But that's why it's a good trick. thumbsup.gif
Kazuma
QUOTE(IceStorm @ Jun 29 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]1251141[/snapback]

exactly, everyone here is free to think what they want to and if thats what you believe then im not gunna try and be like all the skeptics on this site that try and convince you otherwise, im just going to let you think what you will. but if you do find anything new about this subject than post it, im sure lots of people here would like to hear the updates that you find. thumbsup.gif


Thank you so much for your intelligent post. grin2.gif
IceStorm
QUOTE(Kazuma @ Jun 29 2006, 04:12 PM) [snapback]1251528[/snapback]

Thank you so much for your intelligent post. grin2.gif

no problem... wait i couldnt tell if you were tryin to be sarcastic there or if u was bein serious... wacko.gif
smithwes629
Hi, I'm new to the boards so bare with me here.

It's been a long time since I saw the Copperfield special where he walked through the Great Wall, but he did so by placing a shadow box on each side of the wall. Basicaly a paper walled box that lit from inside let you see his shadow as he walked into the wall itself Then his shadow appeared coming out of the wall in a duplicate shadow box on the other side. To rule out anyone claiming it was editied, he did this in front of a live audience The entire illusion was done with one shot, on a camera set on a large boom that let it travel over the wall to the other side in one take. You could see the crowd of people on each side of the wall, and there were people on top of the wall, and the camera moved very quickly from one side to the other, and there were no cuts during the entire illusion.

What I think happened is just my theory, but I think it's the most reasonable course and in line with other illusions he's performed. While the camera moved very quickly across the wall, it took him forever for his shadow to theatricaly walk into the wall before it moved, and it took an equaly long time for his shadow to come out the other side. I think the shadow was a diversion and that as soon as he entered the box the shadow being cast was a fake.

There are any number of ways for a magician to get out of an enclosed space in full view of an audience. Posibilities ncluding a trap door or false bottom, and sometimes a quick change into a costume looking just like the assistants who helped secure him or her into the box and slipping off stage with them. Any one of these could have been used. The real kicker for me was how did he get himself to the other side of the wall. It was shown that there was no tunnel under or through the wall, and no way to climb across the wall without ninja skills, also no breaks in the wall anywhere nearbye.

Ruling out a secrect identical twin, paying off the entire audience, or Copperfield actualy having ninja skills, I realised there still was one way to quickly cross over the wall and slip into the box on the other side. After slipping out of the box, he simply got onto the camera boom and rode it over, using the same diversion to get himself back into the box once he was across.

Again this is just a theory, and I wish I could see a video fo the trick again so I could do a head count of assistants before each shadow box, and get a better look at the box itself, but it seems that the taking a ride with the camera operator was the easiest way of doing it since it was right there next to everything the whole time.

What does everyone else think of this theory?

bug2fix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtG6t6LcNAU

here's the video. Now check out what happens. The key to this trick is in the stairs that lead to the stage/cage. These are hollow and david goes into these stairs when het enters the cage.

What they do, they remove the stairs (which makes no sense) and move it over to the other side of the wall or at least, out of sight for the audience.

anyway, look into the enclosed document, its described pretty good.

nb: watch when he comes out of the wall, just when the first assistant is down the stairs, the stairs move out of itself a few cm's.... funny!
bug2fix
x double post
smithwes629
You're probably right, though I think hiding in the platform iteself would be easier and both are shuffled off stage very rapidly. Which calls into question my "riding the camera boom theory" because they push the other platform up to the wall on the other side before the camera comes down. Also as the camera comes down on the other side you can see it's shadow on the wall so if htat were the case he would have had to drop himself off the camera very early. Ah well there could have been plenty of other ways of getting across. Once the platform and stairs were off screen. One thing with copperfield's illusions, brilliant simplicity is generaly their hallmark. Even though it's been leaked prety widely, the way he made the statue of liberty disapear is still remarkable.
roveberg
QUOTE (JayMark @ Jun 29 2006, 04:58 AM) *
He's already incredibly famous. Don't you think that maby his goal is to be known as the greatest magician of all times and not a psychic that can phase through solid walls?

Anyhow, I just want to know how he did that. You're all saying it's just an illusion and than magic isn't real, I got it already, but nobody gives any kind of theory of how could such illusion have taken place in front of a crowd the sort.

How could we see the wall, then some staff guys put a thin tissue membrane in front of the wall and we see David's arms pulling out of the wall pushing the fabrics and then going back into solid matter before they take the membrane off? I know it's just an illusion but just tell me how...


The tissue membrane thing was done by the assistants HOLDING the white membrane. They put their hands behind it and just pushed on it themselves. Simple and almost a little insulting to everyone's intelligence. But funny too... like you'd laugh at some lame 4th grade play where they're trying SO HARD...
roveberg
QUOTE (Pagan_2k @ Jun 28 2006, 05:06 PM) *
He also made the statue of liberty disappear, a b-52 surrounded by army guys, done teleportation etc,etc.
Now while I can understand that most illusionists use tricks and fakery to achieve their "magic", there must be an upper limit to what can be done.
If copperfield is a wires and mirrors type of guy, it must be pretty big mirrors to make something like the statue of liberty disappear.

The other solution is that he uses editing, the easiest way is just to watch the crowd in slo-mo. If you see things jumping or disappearing, the video is edited.

Personally, I believe that magic exists, and if ,for example, copperfield could really do these things magically, it would be logical that he would say its a trick and use the curtains and smoke, etc. instead of just doing it.

There are no scientifically verified examples of "magic". Magic is just a thing people believe in to give them a reason to live, just like sport, religion, or any other mindless obsession.
Derac Smi
QUOTE (IceStorm @ Jun 28 2006, 09:09 AM) *
im going to have to agree with everyone here, magic isnt real, david copperfield does ilusions that are not real... although the statue of liberty dissapearing was real good, thats besides the point. like biomage said he was banished from the public eye quite a few years ago and since then there have been others like criss angel that have taken his place. by the way, what do you all think about criss angel, i have watched alot of his videos and cant find how he does anything. any ideas?



I agree with you about many a great illusionists devised great feats similar to the paranormal, such as Eusapia Paladino of Naples. But what will be your take on the so-called flying saints? Many of whom were accounted by a multitude of witnesses and history itself? About Chris Angel, his director did most of the tricks. Mr. Angel is nothing more than a talented actor being directed like the rest. More power!
Deadmaker
QUOTE (smithwes629 @ Jul 8 2006, 10:49 PM) *
Hi, I'm new to the boards so bare with me here.

It's been a long time since I saw the Copperfield special where he walked through the Great Wall, but he did so by placing a shadow box on each side of the wall. Basicaly a paper walled box that lit from inside let you see his shadow as he walked into the wall itself Then his shadow appeared coming out of the wall in a duplicate shadow box on the other side. To rule out anyone claiming it was editied, he did this in front of a live audience The entire illusion was done with one shot, on a camera set on a large boom that let it travel over the wall to the other side in one take. You could see the crowd of people on each side of the wall, and there were people on top of the wall, and the camera moved very quickly from one side to the other, and there were no cuts during the entire illusion.

What I think happened is just my theory, but I think it's the most reasonable course and in line with other illusions he's performed. While the camera moved very quickly across the wall, it took him forever for his shadow to theatricaly walk into the wall before it moved, and it took an equaly long time for his shadow to come out the other side. I think the shadow was a diversion and that as soon as he entered the box the shadow being cast was a fake.

There are any number of ways for a magician to get out of an enclosed space in full view of an audience. Posibilities ncluding a trap door or false bottom, and sometimes a quick change into a costume looking just like the assistants who helped secure him or her into the box and slipping off stage with them. Any one of these could have been used. The real kicker for me was how did he get himself to the other side of the wall. It was shown that there was no tunnel under or through the wall, and no way to climb across the wall without ninja skills, also no breaks in the wall anywhere nearbye.

Ruling out a secrect identical twin, paying off the entire audience, or Copperfield actualy having ninja skills, I realised there still was one way to quickly cross over the wall and slip into the box on the other side. After slipping out of the box, he simply got onto the camera boom and rode it over, using the same diversion to get himself back into the box once he was across.

Again this is just a theory, and I wish I could see a video fo the trick again so I could do a head count of assistants before each shadow box, and get a better look at the box itself, but it seems that the taking a ride with the camera operator was the easiest way of doing it since it was right there next to everything the whole time.

What does everyone else think of this theory?



This theory seems to have a lot of validity. After reading and rewatching the video I now believe that you have stated the secret behind this trick. We all know that he didn't walk through the wall.

Watch the video at 2:10. You will see the assistant place his left hand into the box and appear to grab the towel from the shadow of Copperfield. What I didn't notice until I just watched it was that with his right hand he reaches down towards the stairs where he grabs the towel from where Copperfield really is and then he brings it back up to his left hand and makes it appear that he took it from the shadow. The screen is obviously some sort of projection screen and is not see through as they want you to believe.

The other thing that I noticed that seems to support the riding the camera boom over is at 3:45 in the video. If you look closely in the lower right part of the video you will see someone in a black outfit cowered down in a hiding position. You might have to watch it a couple of times to pick it up, but I believe that it is Copperfield. The video then goes in real close to the box, which allows Copperfield to sneak up to the stairs and hide within without being caught on camera.

In the beginning of the video it shows the actual camera boom. I believe that they did this so that they could say that there is no way that he could ride it over without being noticed because there is no where to hide on it. I believe that the boom that you see in the beginning of the video is not what the one looked like that he rode over. They had to have added onto it somehow, allowing him to hide from the audience. Although, they did do it in the middle of the night and he was wearing all black so it would be very difficult to see him on the boom unless you were specifically looking for him, which I doubt any of the audience was.

I doubt that I would have noticed these things if I hadn't read the previous theory.
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