beautiful analogy

Yeah... Now I kind of agree.

Eh, don't worry about it. I'm not really interested.

demonic presence, your a satanist right? i gathered that by ur avatar dealy, but what type? LaVayen (is that spelled right) or pureblood? er sumthin elce?

Thanks for admiting that.

i am a LaVeyan satanist

No. Less believable then psychic powers.

be careful:psychics are among us....

Yes. On Montel Williams and she is nuts.lol

well ur right about her. i'll give u that!

Gentlemen, describing Radin study as you have is ludicrous, as explained, the odds of it being incorrect are well beyond any errror. The point being, the paranormal is a fact of life in no different a way, as the earth is not flat and planes can fly. Feel free though to continue to engage in efforts to sound like you know what your talking about, it reinforces the idea to those who know better, that you do not.

It is funny though, given where this meta-analisis was presented (which Physcis Journal agreed to publish it? ) as well, as the fact the mathematical data is all available in the link.

LOL, you did not read though the link.......

I have a better idea, as far as how and to who this information should be submited too

Thanks again

Any thoughts?

Well, like I said I'm still a skeptic, but that doesn't mean I'm closed minded.

Dean Radin actually responded to two of my e-mails last night, about the James Randi challenge. I told him I have an electronic engieering background and experience in the casino industry, so naturally I asked him about the ability to influence slot machines.

"As I understand it most slot machine RNGs are long-period pseudo-RNGs, reseeded based on when the customer hits the button to start the game, rather than a truly random circuit. If that is the case, then they may not be as susceptible to "influence" as the truly random RNGs used in the lab.

Best wishes,
Dean Radin"

Dean is correct in his description on how the RNG works in slots machines. The RNG can be reseeded due to variables or of course when the machines are shut off for maintenance then powered back on again.

His pk experiments using RNG show results that cannot be explained by statistical math.

http://www.deanradin.com/para2.html#ninea

Hmm, I think I need to work on developing some pk power then go back to the casinos, pseudo-rng or not.

Thanks for being a jerk.

What does that mean? I just admitted that I had a change of heart after reading Dr. Radin's letters and his experiment results, and I am now more open to the possibility of psi.

I would have thought you would have been pleased.

A true RNG does NOT use a "seed" and anything that requires a seed is not random.

A pseudo-RNG uses an algorithm to create a sequence of numbers from a seed. If you give it the same seed you will always get the same sequence of numbers everytime.

For PK to influence a pseudo-RNG it would literally have to change the computer program (software) that is the pseudo-RNG.

Redhen I do apreciate your candor.......

As far as what type of RNG PEAR uses in its experiments........

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/measurement.html

Any thoughts?

Wait, so I'm allowed to report this Radin guy to various people to spread the word, and eventually have the whole world believing in psi...
So then we can confirm that it's real....

Right?

Rest of Link

The Foundation of Physics Journal is one of the most respected scientific journals in the world.....

So the answer to your question Megalomania is yes.

Let’s be clear though and this being advise, print the data and take it someone you feel comfortable with. Ask them for an objective interpretation, or learn what you need to know about statistics to be certain for yourself.

Any thoughts?

From their site;

"The PEAR REG is based on Johnson noise, the extremely low-level fluctuations in electron flow in a resistor due to thermal influences. It has a built-in logic transformation (XOR) of every other bit from 1 to 0 or vice versa, to eliminate in principle any bias of the mean output of the device. The MICROREG uses a Field-Effect Transistor (FET) for the white noise, and also has an XOR stage, in this case with a table of all bytes with equal numbers of 1 and 0. The ORION uses two diodes, each independently producing a random bitstream and in this case the two output signals are XOR'ed against each other."

Well, it doesn't go into detail on how exactly the three components are connected.

For the REG, I would bet that the "low-level fluctuations in electron flow in a resistor due to thermal influences" is pretty damm random.

For the MICROREG, I would have to say that white noise is also pretty damm random.

For the ORION, it doesn't say where the input into the two diodes come from, so I'll have to pass.

This certainly looks like a true RNG to me, actually, at least two separate random number generators.

You can do with it what you want. His tests don't confirm the existance of psi, but that is his theory.

"A meta-analysis of the database, published in 1989, examined 800 experiments by more than 60 researchers over the preceding 30 years. The effect size was found to be very small, but remarkably consistent, resulting in an overall statistical deviation of approximately 15 standard errors from a chance effect. The probability that the observed effect was actually zero (i.e., no psi) was less than one part in a trillion, verifying that human consciousness can indeed affect the behavior of a random physical system. "

I hate stats, Statistics was the one class I loathed in college. There's lots of varying opinions on his experiments you can search for on the Internet.

Some scientists hold that meta-analysis is not useful. Be that as it may, I find it interesting.

Dean's credentials are solid. He even worked on the CIA Stargate program. http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/CIA-InitiatedRV.html

" For a neutral opinion, Radin says, you need only look at the findings of official scientific committees. Five US government panels assessed the findings of psychic research during the 1980s and 1990s. "All five decided that something was going on."

Even when the CIA decided to stop its Stargate paranormal research programme, it wasn’t because they’d failed to find effects but because it was felt that the practical intelligence applications for those effects were limited."

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/cur...r_parapsych.htm

Nonono, not you, I'm so sorry that you thought I was talking to you. I was replying to ericraven2003.

Sorry again!

Then why are we carrying on as if it has any releavance to the subject?

Okay Redhen I'll take your 1 million dollar offer. What I can do is that I can peek into the future. We don't need to set-up a controlled environment. Bio-Mage has it under control. Some addendum for the notary public is included. I'll send info within 3 days if my psychic proves to be true. Also, Megalomania, I'll take your 200 dollars. No video needed the details is in the link below. Give it 2 days for USA, ASIA, and European settings.

abrakadabra
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=73173

Read the rest of the topic, I lost my $200.
Sorry

I will say this one more time. WHy ON EARTH YOU COME TO FORUM TO PROVE IT AND NOT A RESEARCH FACILITY ???? Is it that hard to make the world a favour and enlighten them since you think you know better!!! w00t:

edited: Threats, humour implied or not, are not for this forum.

Haha a Research Facility? I'll tell you what they'll do to a sane human in a research facility. - They will turn your insides out.

0. they'll let you sign saying they'll have full control over you, if you die, they'll not answer for it.
1. they'll ask questions about your geneology, from the day you were born up to your current age. - you'll get bored to death for not only one person will ask you over and over.
2. give you all kinds of test, poke needles at you, take your blood, lots of blood.
3. scan your entire body with a cat scan and Mri.
4. gives you all kinds of medicine that you dont know what are its effects.
5. shaves your head and put electrodes in.
6. deny you your favorite foods.
7. put you in restraint.
8. deny you your needed sleep.
9. possibly kidnap your entire family for cloning.

No thank you.

Do you even have a million dollar, I doubt it maybe the physic's already know you don't have the money to back it up or did you mean from the profit of the video?

All I was going to do was act as a representative for the claimant and submit the application to the JREF, James Randi's organization for verification, and let Randi pay the $1,000,000.

However, in light of new information I have decided to cancel this offer.

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/ske...x.htm#randprize

Randi's challenge is nothing more than a publicity stunt of an aging stage magician.

You watch too many movies and cartoons. If you have a problem with scientists then go to Oprah or something....sheesh

Wow I did not know humour what that threatening...sorry...

Oh by the way mr Moderator...I know what did you did last summer....

How can you be so certain that some of these members have not contacted research facilities? I can't speak for others, but I made a handful of attempts to volunteer my time for medical research in the hope of broadening alternative medicine practice to include energy healing. In one case, I offered to spend 5 minutes with a nurse or physician and reimburse him/her for the time in order to demonstrate the ability.

I did receive one returned call from an HMO's alternative medicine dept. following a message that I'd left on their voice mail. The medical staff had no prior awareness of energy healing, and with hospitals' allegiance to the pharmaceutical industry, it's not in the best interest of either party to substantiate pain and inflammation treatments that are free of side effects.

Have you tried contacting the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland ?

http://nccam.nih.gov/

They have clinical tests and research grants available.

Thanks, Redhen. I hadn't ventured outside of my region of CA (Some notable names, nonetheless), but I'll see what Bethesda has to offer.

Regards,
Brian

Right...



... not actually too much, they wouldn't want you dead.
They'd take blood inside the limits, if they take any at all.



Like they do in the hospital?
Man. You'd better hope you never have cancer.



What would be the point in doing this.



Rightio....



But then you wouldn't able to use a psi-wheel or any abilities.



I don't think that really deserves an answer. That is just plain stupid.
What would be the point of cloning your family?

what??? where do i sign up?? lol

Making it relevant to the topic in every way, in other words, establishing that a human being can affect a computer, designed produce only pure random events and therefore, causing it to generate non random events using the power of the mind (i.e. Telekinesis)

It is that simple; now as far why it is possible, that aspect of the work is theoretical but the data as far as, that it is possible makes telekinesis a fact….bottom line.



Any thoughts?

Ah, so it's proof. Thank god.

Yes it is proof.

I don't know about definitive, but the results certainly were extraordinary.

" In a 1995 book saturated with piercing skepticism, the late Carl Sagan of Cornell University maintained his life-long mission of educating the public about science, in this case by debunking popular hysteria over alien abductions, channelers, faith-healers, the "face" on Mars, and practically everything else found in the New Age section of most bookstores. Then, in one paragraph amongst 450 pages, we find an astonishing admission:

At the time of writing there are three claims in the ESP field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study: (1) that by thought alone humans can (barely) affect random number generators in computers; (2) that people under mild sensory deprivation can receive thoughts or images "projected" at them; and (3) that young children sometimes report the details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation."

http://paraview.com/radin/radin_excerpt.htm

So this pk influenced RNG experiment would fall under the "extraordinary evidence" category. Not too many of those. I'm sure Carl Sagan would have liked to have lived long enough to see how this all turned out.

Redhen this in quotes taken from the link you presented in your most recent response.....

By Dean I. Radin



[u]From Merriam Websters Dictionary....[u]


My point being the proverbial rose of a different name, is still a rose and in disecting one words definition (proof), one clearly finds the other defined (evidence).



Any thoughts?

Then could you report it to the world, so we can all believe in it?
I couldn't figure out where to start...

Start with The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

o_o

... *doesn't get it*

To my mind Proof is something that is undeniable and indisputable. Evidence is something that can still be debated, such as Radin's experiments results.

First thing that comes to mind when someone asks me to define Proof is the stamp on a firearm or canon that tells you Smith & Wesson made this pistol. Next thing that pops in my head is the alcohol content on a bottle of rum. It doesn't say "Evidently there is 40% alcohol in this bottle", no, it says it is 40% Proof.

Cheers


Yeah I know, all kinds of wierd things pop into my head

There was nothing to get.

Unless you're implying that this is something to make a joke out of...

There's a few people I think could "Earn" that million.

However, it would require going to a dramatically different forum.

-MDH

In the first place the world, with exception of a few skeptics already accepts the existence of the paranormal.

This data has been around since 1989, it was presented in one of the most, if not the most, significant Scientific Journal in the world (Nobel Laureates abound in relation to published articles there). The Foundation of Physics Journal would not have published the data had it not been prepared to justify its being included, which means, the data was reviewed using the same standards it applies to all.

Anyone in the world can access this data, it can be found in any major library in respect to any country on the planet. In relation to the USA, Europe and Japan, the primary library of every major city has a copy. And if a person does not live in a major city and wants to see a copy, the local libraries, that do not have one, can order a copy and receive one within 24 hours. It is available on the Internet, at no charge, one can see the entire text without restriction and the search parameters, in order to locate the information are not hard to spell (even better, most search engines now have spell checking).

To be honest Megalomania, I do not understand what you are asking of me, a person, who presented the data at an internet forum whose membership, for the most part encompasses, Europe and the United States (in relation to access)??

Hey Redhen…..

Of course the data is debatable, primarily because no real conclusion is made in respect to cause. No "Theorem" exists and undeniably, a meta-analysis of this category clearly needs to be repeated in about 20 years and another in 20 more years (and so on...). What we have here is, for lack of a better term, is evidence and/or proof of a paradox. To be certain, one, which conflicts with accepted standards, by which physics is commonly understood (to an extent).


As such, the real condition which exists is akin to that of modern physics, before Bells Theorem was presented in relation to Einstein, Poldoulski, and Rosen Paradox (also referred to as EPR Bridge). In other words, a fact and/or phenomenon has been shown to exist, but only theory, hypothesis, religious orientation, philosophy, and conjecture, exists as what can be offered, so as to explain why it is possible.

The fact that it was presented in the Scientific Journal "The Foundation of Physics" is comparable to your "Smith and Wesson" analogy or the matter of 40 proof alcohol(keep in mind though, that 40 proof is actually 20% alcohol, as offered in the definition of "proof", in my last response, where 90 proof was used as an example). In truth, given the standards maintained by the Journal in question, the material would not have bee published, unless its voracity was well within the highest standards maintained, by the scientific community as a whole.


Any thoughts?

I agree. This is indeed extraordinary evidence. Hopefully in my lifetime scientists can figure out what exactly is causing these unexpected results. If it turns out to be some kind of natural force, then can we still say it is psychic?

As the term suggests (as defined), if it were found to be natural another word would have to be used. Though I think from the context of common or everyday language such a change would take substantial time. I feel that it is natural (even the term biological fits), this by virtue of the observation, in relation to development, which is similar in every way to the act of exercising in order to develop physical strength.

Any thoughts?

I'll do it. Provided the controlled test conditions are my conditions. Waht do you want? Spoon bending? Those irritating psi wheels? You name it i'll do it.


Just give me a couple of days to get hold of some fishing line Practise.