It says in the bible evolution exists , but wasnt how the earth along with generall elements like hydrogen and water carbon , and the existance of life came to be . I dont see why the Pope wouldn't believe in evolution unless that is not included in catholic bible .

Speaking of which ... I told you to SCREW THE POPE !!!!

Indeed .


Maybe the pope is an alien trying to mess with his followers minds after teaching them catholisism ? Could the pope have been posesed ?

Ah well - even if someone can answer this question my answer will still be HECK NO I did not come from an ape.....if we came from apes - how come they (apes) still exist?

*Irrelavent to topic*

Seraphina why do you use the smily so much ? I have never seen anyone just seem to love a particular so much

Thanks Moe - that makes a bit more sense always kind wondered....but I still don't buy it

Serphina - I know thats what they theorize - thats what they tell me....but again I don't buy into it.

Perhaps I'm wrong - in the great scheme of things I think this is gonna be one of those tiny things that doesn't really matter.....however God did it - he created man - be it evolution or otherwise....I jsut can't imagine Adam and Eve as apes

oh come on. don't tell me you believe in adam and eve?!?!?!
it's just beyond me how in these modern times people still
believe in so incredibly stupid ideas. i suppose some people
actually believe that black people are that way becouse eve
"hid" them from god or something. oh man... how sad:))))

Codiac, you put it bluntly, but oh so well...the Old Testamant is a metaphor in any case. I might be willing to accept that some of the events in the new testamant (the actual life of Jesus, though not the miracles, appearance of angels and so forth) actually occured...

However, Adam and Eve? No, somehow I doubt it very much Most christians nowadays do actually accept the old testament as metaphor in any event. Anyway...you can refuse to see Adam and Eve as apes all you like, we've got fossils of primitive humanids that shows that real first man and woman (or the closest term you could really apply) were...

One more thing...

The story of Adam and Eve is not about evolution. Its meant to teach us about free will and human choice of sin. Both Adam and eves names are a play of words. Adam is hebrew for "earth (adama) and eve (chavvah) means the mother of all living.
Its funny how people think that the opening chapters of the bible are a scientific account of creation. I think its more theological. The story of Adam and Eve attempts to explain the age old mystery of why we experience evil. Nothing more. Just look at the symbolism.
If anyone were to take genesis word by word, wouldnt you start to ask questions? I mean cmon now. If Adam and Eve only had 2 sons, but cain killed his brother abel, Where did Cain's wife come from? Did Cain marry his sister? Or did Scotty from the star ship Enterprise beam her down?

I present evidence of evolution. Having been a dinosaur buff since before I can remember my first rational thought, I have learned many excellent examples of evolution. Especially on those "missing" transitional forms, that actually really are not missing.

Sinornithosaurus
Below at the bottom of that page also exist links to other related species such as velociraptor, dromaeosaurus, etc, etc...

Archaeopteryx
Sure this primitive bird has been indispute for ages, but that doesn't mean it wasn't one of the first birds.
Avialae

Prehistoric Chicken Well not really, the skeleton just reminds me of one, but this is actually Yandangornis.

Here are some more links:
Avimimus

Aquatic dinosaurs/bird type critters

Evolution. A scientific matter that seems logically logic. Think of evolution as a form of adaption--well that's how i see it.

However, my question to that would be: how does evolution work. Scientists have found species of animals that existed in the pre-historic era, so why haven't they evolved and changed?

Pickeld*Tacos I will quote my dear brother

"If you believe in Creation then why don't you believe in Aliens?"

There I think I made my point. I don't think that we came from apes, or anything like that.

Happy Holidays!

How can people find a supernatural reason for our existence more likely than a purely natural reason?

You've got fossils of bones of Australopithecus, a mostly bipedal ape; Homo Habilis, one step more advanced found with crude stone tools: Homo Erectus (ape face and basically human body with proof of use of fire and hunting tools), Neanderthals with all kinds of tools and crude art, cromagnons with beautiful art, advanced tools, these were humans with skulls twice as thick as modern humans. Genetically there's only 1% difference between us and chimpanzees. I really don't understand where is the "Missing link". Before Australopithecus you've got Ramapithecus and the other Moe mentioned, These apes did not have the arms as extended as they are in apes today in comparison to the length of the legs. Apes developed long arms for brachiation, or to swing through trees. Most animals that survive today that haven't changed for millions of years most likely did not need to change, those who couldn't adapt went extinct. A great example of evolution is the elephant, The tusks have changed in so many ways from diggers to tree strippers as well as there size. Their body size has changed dramatically as well as the Mammoths shaggy coat to no hair at all, yet you can tell by their basic shape they are still elephants, except before they appeared in our fossil evidence, and there's the catch. Plenty of animals before, for millions of years.

As far as I know Genesis was written by Moses by compiling previous stories and records from Joshua (I believe that was his name, the guy he ran into while on the run for murdering the Egyptian guard) and the visions he experienced while fasting for forty days. I know people who've fasted for forty days and I can tell you there's a lot of vision that happens very quickly and is difficult to put in words. Man being created out of clay may have been Moses witnessing evolution in fast forward, but a lot of the numbers of years that are quoted in Genisis don't fit. I don't really trust the words of someone who ordered the massacre of every man, woman, and child because of "God's will". Great point about where did other races come from, such as the Native Americans? This has plagued Christianity since the Americas were discovered, and given rise to many new religions and offensive ideas. People were at one time tried for heresy for teaching that the earth orbitted the sun, not the other way around (Galileo) and other things we accept as fact today.

Having said that, I do believe in Creator, I've experienced the spirit world first hand. I do not take offense that people do not believe, or argue with me about it, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. When you know an orange is an orange because you see it, taste it, why listen to somebody that says it isn't? You really can only feel sorry for them.

The more you watch Apes the more you'll see similarities between them and humans. If you open your mind you might even see their beauty and be proud to be part of their family.

I think that evolution is the case.People argue "if we evolved from monkeys,then why arent monkeys still evolving?"

Why? Because they don't have the habitat and evironment they did BEFORE humans existed.Like Darwin said,survival of the fittest,animals have to evolve to meet their survival needs.

Remember the giraffe? It never had a long neck and it had to get the leaves from the tree.After time if eventually evolved into a giraffe with a long neck.

Survival of the fittest.

Since I have been staying away from debates, this is the first time I have even looked at this thread. I agree with Sabrina in that people shouldn't criticize others for their beliefs. Many people take religion/spiritualism very seriously, and although you may disagree, it's wrong to criticize.

That being said, I believe in creation and evolution. I believe in God and that God created the universe and the things in the universe. I also believe that God set in motion the evolutionary process. If you look at the whole observable universe, all things change all the time. I do not believe humans evolved from apes, however. I believe there are humans and apes, although characteristically close, each are seperate creatures created by God.

Excuse me I was referring to the postings on this site. I do not attack other religions I respect theirs and I expect that MINE SHOULD BE RESPECTED AS WELL.

That plain and simple is all I am asking - I should be allowed to post my thoughts on this site without being attacked, ridiculed and made fun of.

Blue-Scorpion,
You missed the point Sabrina was making. We don't need links to other websites showing who criticizes who. We don't need finger pointing or any 'us' against 'them' type attitudes. We all have our beliefs and they should be respected equally. Sabrina said the things she said because on this site, christianity has been criticized a lot. That is why she said "on here". The only thing you added to this discussion with your post is one more reason for people to chose sides and defend their personal beliefs.

we are the recomposition of beings
that were here but given a dose of extraterrestrial DNA....... OK

Maybe i should've clarified my point on this matter between religious disputes.

Not every religion is as perfect as the other, each has their own flaws and mishaps.

i dont know if this has come up, or even if its true cos i cant remember where i heard it, but apes go through a human-like stage when they are still in the womb but humans dont go through an ape like stage. whoever told me this (probably a teacher (and you know how much crap they throw out) suggested that apes evolved from us. personally i dont believe that cos surely children would be becoming more ape like over generations. anyway, thats my contribution of mindless crap to this thread.

I suppose you could believe seraphina that the "greater apes" are neanderthal's descendants that just didn't die out like is universally believed.

No I couldn't, for the very same reason I posted above...to say that the greater apes were decendants of neanderthals would be like saying Pong is the decendant of Final Fantasy X-2....natural selection doesn't work in reverse, as its very purpose is designed to improve a species' chances of survival.

Chimps, gorrillas and so forth have far more in common with the various species of apes that came before neanderthals than anything that has been recorded after.

*points and laughs*

Now kids, lets all talk to brickwalls. They would be more interested in crediting our opinions.
Moe credits everyones opinions. Is moe a brick wall?


GOOD OPINIONS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This "arguement" has taken the wrong turn, you were first angry at Codiac and now it seems like your turning this on me. Iunno, this was not supposed become what it has become now (don't quote me on this now).

Thanks for totally disregarding what you have said - I was and am annoyed at Codiac yes that is true. However, I believe you wern't far behind when you started in with your little quotes totally disregarding what I had to say - you know what - that pissed me off. Imagine that - someone ignores what you say and you take offence - I'd never guessed that!

When I said the part about hypocrites I was referring to the site in general - not necessarily to you. I say they are hypocrites because the moment I start trying to witness or say anything about God or my religion or beliefs I am attacked ie Codiac. And it's not only him. I have seen others. It makes me mad. I have had it and I refuse to sit idly by and let it happen anymore just to keep the peace.

Codiac on the other hand is no where to be found - I even sent the butt licker a private message.

I accept your truce I feel like I am going in circles - you are making me dizzy

Finally and somewhat on a tangent......I would like to add that I really don't care if we came from apes - I don't believe we came from apes- but if we did then God created it. I believe in the story of Adam and Eve - call me crazy call me a backwoods hick.....if you don't believe in God that is your option I respect your opinion. But mark my word if you are not a child of God, if you do not believe that his son Jesus Christ died for your sins, was resurected on the third day, and is now preparing heaven for all those who are willing to repent for their sins and follow him I will wave as you pass me to go into the portals of hell and I to the golroious reward of heaven.

Ok. I wanted to stay out of this one, but it seems that the bashing is getting one sided; and not a little bit ugly. I think that by now most of the people on this site now that I am a Christian,that I do not hold to any denomination, and that I don't believe in evolution. But please when we disuss religion can we try to all remember to detach ourselfs as much as possible from the emotion of the thread and just reason?(And yes, I am speaking for myself as well) This insulting over religion is only destructive; it hurts in such a way that it becomes almost impossible for the person that it is directed at to stay calm. We know we all will probably disagree on many things, lets just try to keep it civilized; lest we lose more members.
But if you really feel the need to just be sadistic and purposelessly bash people because it makes your pitiful ego feel better. Then bring it on; we will see if you can take on someone who will not curl into a ball, and whimper because of hurt feelings.

Dude - we've called a truce....kissed and made up - aint no one gonna be drivin me away from this place unless they literally take my account away from me - I'm gonna be driving people crazy til the day I stop doin the net!

Good. That soap-box has just been festering inside me since I read Phantoms post.

why would it take time for an omniscient omnipotent being to create our universe? especially if as i've been told numerous times when he exists outside of time...

Nah seraphina what I meant is that seen as though we haven't yet discovered any actual evidence of the existence of the likes of bigfoot then it could be possible that the neanderthal did survive in some form and is in hiding. We also know for a fact neanderthal was taller and stronger than homosapien just not as smart,common beief also states that though the neanderthal did have some homosapien traits socially, it was still very primate like and that could explain the descriptions given when sightings occurred .
I don;t actually believe it though and my theory is based on no scientific evidence.
Im just trying to point them all in the right direction as i am of course a genious.

I cant believe this topic isnt dead yet .

As far as I can see , the atheists constantly ask questions and when the christians respond the atheists call it superstition despite any reasoning given , repeat . Since the bible has 66 books averaging 100 pages long I'd say your in a long run if you desire to continue .

Yeah but you've said yourself that this can be kinda fun.

Ok, far too many quotes here, so I'll answer it all at once. As far as being nowhere to be seen, my last post remained up unanswered for what, two or three days? I'm sorry, but I have better things to do than monitor this board 24 hours a day.

As several of you posted in response to my post, this then is addressed to you.

If people don't believe in God, you've given them plenty of reasons not to. The leader of your religion practiced exceptional understanding, tolerance, and forgiveness. The forgiveness part is more of self-analysis. "Let he (or she) without sin throw the first stone." Are you perfect? Am I? Certainly not. Therefore I have no right to judge someone else, no matter their beliefs. I don't judge your beliefs, but the actions you chose to take against others compels me to question your beliefs.

But with the comment of believing that only by Jesus will someone be able to be saved from burning in hell, you not only alienate yourself from atheists you also impede on the beliefs of other religions. Other religions have had a concept of heaven long before Christianity, even before Judaism. If you believe that other religions' believers can not enter heaven, I challenge you to find where the Bible supports this. I'm sure you may find a verse that may be interpreted several different ways, but I'd still like to see it. Even more important, I'd like to see you actually examine your heart, or pray. This may take a lot of time, however, as there appears to be a lot of angry layers you'll have to dig through before you reach the part of tolerance, understanding, and forgiveness Jesus was able to attain. But I know you'll find the process much more rewarding in the long run, I know I have.

As far as comparing the belief in evolution or even atheism (which do not go hand in hand) to preventing a forest fire, you've picked the right person to address this to. My father is the head of Fire Districting for the Department of Natural Resources of Washington State. Before that he was the head of fighting the fires. He still coordinates fire-fighting, as it is a huge job. I've worked with him before on fire prevention programs. Education is the tool to reaching people about fire prevention, not accusation. The same applies to religion. People will not listen to you if you tell them they are going to hell, and when you try to squash the spiritual beliefs they do have, which may parrallel your own, you will be faced with a brick wall, as good ole' Moe said.

In reference to my comment on the inquisition and the plight of the Native Americans, I was showing how this hatred and intolerance of other beliefs can get totally out of hand. I do not blame you for the past, but I saw the same attitude in your post.

I only heard one person insult your beliefs, Sabrina. The rest have only provided info or opinions on evolution, or even their own religion. The belief that we came from apes, or hominids, does not harm you or your religion. It does not specify in the Bible wether we did or did not evolve from apes. "Let us make man in our own image". What exactly does God look like? Or, to be more precise "Us"? But to the point, you take that one person's insulting remark and lash out at everyone who has different beliefs than your own.

As far as God writing your post, than I must say that the god who is possessing your body is very different from the god I or Jesus has come to know.

It can only be fun when the atheists ask a question that is worthy of response , now it seems they are restating their points and going nowhere with them . Its as if they dont know anything about christianity and then attack it for something that doesnt exist in the bible in any way shape or form .

Their are only a few people on here who actually know what both atheism and christianity are actually about , plenty of people here THINK they know what christianity is about but after reading their posts which often reflect an entirely different sect they obviously do not .

As for what doink said , . One reason people dont go with christianity is because they walk into one of those extremist baptist or catholic churches that preach crap like