It is sad to say that Religion brings war, and I really Im sad about that because Religion is a bug part in life people should always keep in mind, but when it goes bad its just depressing.
Israelis and Palestinians are killing each other by the hundreds in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Hindus and Muslims are slaughtering each other in India, herding neighbors into house or trains then setting them afire. Catholics and Protestants continue to kill each other in Northern Ireland. Sunnis and Shias have their arms wrapped around each other's throats throughout the Islamic world. And of course, on Sept. 11, 19 Muslims were so determined to murder helpless Christians and Jews that they were willing to die to shed the blood of other religions.

Not a terribly good reflection on faith, is it? If religion makes people want to murder each other, maybe religion is bad for the world.

Religion has certainly been bad for history. In recent decades alone, Hindus and Sikhs have been slaughtering each other, blowing up airliners and firing artillery shells into temples. In the fighting over Sri Lanka, Tamil Hindus have fired machine guns at school buses full of Sinhalese Buddhist children, and the Buddhists in turn have firebombed Hindu schools. Thousands of Chinese grew up as orphans because their Buddhist parents were murdered during World War II at the urging of Shinto priests.

Looking further back, huge numbers of Eastern Orthodox Armenians were murdered by Muslims at the turn of the century. Much of Europe's history has been a nightmare of Christian-on-Christian killing, including the 30 Years' War, in which an estimated 7.5 million people--one-third of the European population at the time--died owing to Catholic-versus-Protestant slaughter. England's history is full of Protestants murdering Catholics; France's history is full of Catholics murdering Protestants; Spain's history is full of Christians murdering Jews. Pretty much all of Europe is to blame for the Crusades, in which Christians murdered Muslims. This inventory could go on at considerable length. King Olaf Tryggvason's declaration from about the year 1000--"all Norway will be Christian or die!"--sums it up.

So is faith bad? The fact that religions preach love, but often generate violence, cannot be dismissed as a minor imperfection.
What are your thoughts?
To me either every religion is fighting to impose to the world as the best religion or to dominate all other religions. :s01

Even Jesus spoke against religion. My belief is that many religions teach peace and love and all that stuff, but don't do enough to emphasize tolerance and peace and love and harmony to those that don't share the same views.

I believe that religion would be better for the world if those principles were not only believed but actively preached. It's ok to think that your religion is the 'right' religion, but you must also be tolerant and peaceful to those that chose not to believe your faith. Again, tolerance and peace and love and to live in harmony with others that don't share your beliefs MUST be actively preached and drilled into you and not just to believe it as an afterthought for true peace to be achieved.

This is just my opinion.

i agree Homer with what u said about being tolerant and peaceful to those who chose not to believe your faith.
   
   As a Wiccan I talk about  my faith but i would not impose any of my beliefs on others. But I have been spat at, beaten up, and some other less pleasant things all because I have 'come clean' about my beliefs. It has now made me very wary as to who I tell.

It seems that most 'accepted' religions seem to want to make their follows fear the consequences of a failure to follow that religion.... going to hell, eternally dammed etc. It seems to me also that man as a whole are the ones to interpret thier religious teachings to mean that they have to try and anilhate all others.... Why????
If there is a logic to it I have yet to see it.
:s5

I can tell it to you:

A more peacefull place

Celticwitch_00,

Have you been beaten up because you where/are a wiccan? That is extremely pathetic... I hope that you used some "White Magic" to kick ass! (Turned them into nature loving people or soimething like that)

Odin S. :s9

Hmmm and wouldn't that be wonderful the news would have to find some thing else to report

Yes I was beaten up for bieng a Wiccan..... but I have had the last laugh on them. :-X

Note to self :-

do not upset Celtic

:s2

:s2 :s2 :s2 :s2 :s2 :s2 ;D

as if I'd do anything to u mad lot.....  :s03

There should be a law against it  :s08

well... I can see this topic will have many insights on it as religion always does....
For my self... I do not have a religion. I was not brought up to have one. I was told there is A god... and that was it.
I agree with most of you I think when I say that just being a moral person...and living your life morally, always trying to do the right thing (s) is the best religion out there.  Believing that, yes, there are higher powers above you.  
If everyone`s religion revolved around this... how could there be violence???  I mean if your relgion is always peace and you not only act upon it.... then there is no reason to fight.

In my opinion, anyone who says they practice any religion and does not act upon it, they create chaos, kill people or what ever... well these people I'm sure aren`t following there Religious beleifs at all.  

I`ve never ever heard of any religion that promotes death.

For Myself.... I know I am not perfect. I cetainly do not kill people, but may not always do things morally right... but most often try to. That is MY religion.

I'm like you Mystify, I don't kill anybody either anymore

        Homer,  
           :s2 You're so funny!  You kill me!  :s2

         Oops,  there goes your record!  :o

KC,
I may be funny, but looks aren't everything ;D

Besides, with so many people pissing me off:s08  my record was bound to be broken sooner rather than later.

I think that it is Organised Religion that is to blame. Personal faith is good but organised religion has caused more suffering than anything else. Your God/beliefs should be incharge of your faith, not a man, be he Pope, Ayotollah(sp?), Head of state, etc. Man wields organised religion as a political weapon/tool and thats not how it should be.

:st Yeap ORGANISED RELIGION does have a lot to blame for wars etc but it's man who wars in the name of it so in the end man again uses this for his own means

:'( saddening to think that really

you guys, have been reading too much Terry Pratchett again haven't you?  thats what he says.

Really? nope not lately anyway but I think that is how most people think these days.

But it's nice to know that you're not the only one that thinks like that ;D

the Pratchett book that deals with organised religion and the dangers of it is Small Gods.  If you have not read it yet, may i suggest you try to, its funny.  

I agree, Small Gods is funny


:s2

A? Ishould try to what?....... read ot read the book? :s2 :s2 :s2 sorry sense of humour is one warped mode today ;D

I like Vorbis, although Brother Brutha is fairly good as well

I find Death a very imposing figure.

I like Binky and my all time fav Rincewind :s01

Rincewind - now known as the Proifessor of Cruel nd Unusual Geography at UU

the city watch are some of my favourite characters.  with the likes of Colon, Vimes, Ironfoundersonn, Nobbs.  Lord Vetinari is a good one as well  

The witches are probaly my favourite characters

:)

:-* ahhh i like Granny Weatherwax I would like to get a little figure of her. ;D

here you are then Celtic.   ;)

http://www.area51b.freeserve.co.uk/dworld/dframe.htm

:-* :-* :-* thanx A.






Again A I have to pass a comment from the other half that he likes the quote (yet again!!!) ???

Hi guys, just a thought on this topic...and I know Magikman doesn't believe in UFOs or off-worlders, so he will undoubtedly have a "hay day" with my remarks...

However, has anyone ever looked deep, back into the history of religion--its lores, teachings and origins in relationship to the "gods" (not to be confused with GOD or the Law of One).  There is much in the history that reveals the practices, needs and origins of "worship" of the gods.

Okay, Magicman, I am back...wanna talk about this?   :sa :sk

I myself down believe in god.
In my opinion religion is ok, because it gives people security in knowing what happens when you die and allows people to be nice to each other and help each other out, but I hate it when the people who do believe in god act like they can tell me what not to do and say because it's against their belives.

Okay, so you have a different opinion about belief as oppose to the Christian/Catholic religion. Fine by anyone. Religious diversity is not only a beautiful thing, but something that has shaped and colored human history from beginning to the present point.

But until you have reached a significant mark of appreciation and apprehension towards the beauty of Christianity, it is not your place to critisize someone of another cult or faith simply because they choose to follow by the Holy Laws of their religion.

There are several major and minor differences between the Laws of God, and the laws of the government, but both are used to apply order and justice among people. If you abuse these laws, you are crossing some of  your greatest priorities.

Mistake me if I'm wrong, but never have I seen under any thread in this forum that a Catholic/Christian member has critisized the non-believers. This is the second incident this month in which someone has chosen to insignificantly point fingers at us. Why? Are you asking for a dispute?

And lastly, what in hell's name is a "down believer"?--as you claim to be... :s9 ???

I think that you always have to respect each others believes and leave them alone, unless those believes hurt someone, like the NAZI's for example. If we would just have respected their believes that all Jews where filth then ther would be no war in Israel, ok.. But then we wouldn't pay attention to the basic human rights..

Odin S. :s9

I think religion is good for the world.it gives people motivation and is a sensible guide as how to live.myself, I have no religion, but to me, anything that has good values and idea's is a plus for society.It's the individuals that preach that other religions are false that causes the trouble. If you take the best ideas from each of the people/religions, you'll be better for it, because you are broadening your mind and expanding your knowledge.And to me, there is no harm in that.You maybe are wondering why i have no religion.I was born atheist, but when or if i find a religion that appeals to me, i'll take it.I live my own religion, which is taking the best ideas of every person and combining them into one.

Anyone want to join my religion?  It will involve copious amounts of ....... free food, free money, free clothing, free housing, free family......... membership is free....  free benefits for you and your free family...free top class healthcare.. And what is this wonderful religion called? Bogusasylumseekerism!   :s2

religion doesnt cause war, it justifies it.  people will always seek a reason to kill other people if it will make their lives less complex.

i believe in jesus christ.  i believe he was as close to a saintly man as has walked the earth and i respect that aspect of his nature.  i dont necessarily buy all the claims of the bible, but i realize they may also just be metaphors that are intended to teach us the correct path.  

that being said, i also believe people have the right to believe whatever they choose to believe.  the problem with not practicing some type of a religion becomes apparent as you age and you realize you will eventually fail and die.  if you don't practice religion, its much the same as not exercising your body, your spirit is unable to cope with hard stresses and may collapse.  since your spirit becomes the only thing you can rely on, as the body fails, without spritual well-being you have nothing left.  i fear that more than anything.

if you have no religion, i would advise you to sit down and think one up.  then practice it often.  the day will come soon enough when that may save you from a serious threat to your life.  i have found myself in situations where my spirituality was the only thing that kept me from dying.  the last thing you need to find in a life threatening situation is that you haven't sorted out what you believe your life was meant to accomplish.  i often think about that girl who was murdered at Columbine High School by those two faithless dogs- they asked her if she believed in jesus and she replied that she did-  so they killed her.   would you have the balls to say something like that?  with a couple of killers pointing a gun at you?  that is why you need religion.  it gives you strength that is unattainable otherwise.  it gives you conviction that those without it lack.  it stabilizes your life and gives you a reason to smile in the worst situations.  religion exemplifies the best part of humanity.    

I cannot agree more with what you just said!!
I have been saying all along that people need not judge one by his religion of choice, b/c everyone needs something to beleive in.If it be Christians, Pagans, Wiccan, budhist or whatever. Even if we cannot prove it exists, we have faith that it does. I personally beleive if we did not have religion, the world would be 10X's worse than it is today. Simply b/c we have nothing to tell us what is right and what is wrong, as do our religions.   ;)

[blue] I agree totally with the above points Dschwartz made about Jesus and the Bible.

I think that we are an evolving species, and our intelligence is at its peak so far, but there is so much that we do not know. Our religions/beliefs help us to deal with the hazy void of the unknown that has not been explained yet.
[/blue]

Religion is a waste of time. It causes people to close their eyes and not think that there is something better out there... How would you like it if your best friend was Christian and you were...a jew and something happened and they turned their back to you when you came for help... Religion has some good percs but there is always a Horrible side to everything.

oh yes, Cat, because christians are also anti-semites.  i follow your logic :P

Sarcasm becomes you DSchwartz, and I do mean that as a compliment.


What I have noticed...is that those without some spiritual influence in their lives tend to be prone to really evil acts. Senseless acts of violence.

Anyone else notice this?

Dalia  :s3

people without religion can be nasty, evil and violent towards there fellow people, but then can so those with a religion to follow the only difference as has been said before is that those with a religion to follow tend to justify the violence and acts of evil on the religion. - the crusades - for instance.

[blue]
Yes, people without some kind of spiritual thought/awareness can perform evil acts, but remember that all world wars are either fought for the purpose of religion or territory. And what more evil an act than a war?
[/blue]

To add something to Loonboy's post, the territories people fight for are most of the time of religion interest. Look at Israel, there are some really important places for Christians, Jews and Muslims. See what happens...

Also the wars in the Dark Ages..

Odin

I dont think it would ever be possible to live in a world without religion. It is just a naturall part of who we are as a spieces even people who don't worship a spiritual god will find something to replace it with, for example sports , building things, or even playing on the computer. Really anything that people do religiosly and can worship on a sunday. ;)

A world without religion would be hard to imagine, as people willalways try to raise up something higher than themselves. (This referring to peoplke as a society, not as individuals).
I don't beleive religion brings about war persay. The reason thewars of the middle ages and whatnot were "religiously inspired" was because religion was the dominant social group. Living beings will clash with each other over goods and territory. You'll notice that for all the talk of "Reclaiming the holy land", the Christians were certainly encouraged to sack the place.
To quote Forrest Gump: "And that's all ah have to say about that."

Earlier in this thread I wrote:

QUOTE

If there is a logic to it I have yet to see it.

I still stand by that. :'(

Actually Celtic allthough not as frightening as pergatory or eternal damnation wiccans also have a punishment for ill favoured acts , with the law of three . That which you do comes back to you three fold which effectively punishes you for mistakes you make , just like mainstream religions do.
As for the wars of the dark ages on the surface they may have seemed to be fought for spiritual purposes but in reality where based on a wanten desire for power and control and of course money and territory.
In the same way the catholic church gained control over the celtic countries by making the practise of pagan rituals punishable by death. This gave them control over the people and the power over there country . It is the same technique used by Osama Bin Ladan he has attacked the religious symbols of the Budhists (at least i think thats the correct religion) in Afghanistan effectively taking away there faith and it has unfortunately worked.

On the 24th October 2002 Kismet wrote:

QUOTE

wiccans also have a punishment for ill favoured acts , with the law of three . That which you do comes back to you three fold which effectively punishes you for mistakes you make , just like mainstream religions do.

Ummm I don't mean to have a go, please don't think that I am, but since I am a practising Wiccan (Hence the name) I am fully aware of the rule of three and of it's consquences. :)
But I would also like to point out the the rule of three is something that we have to be aware of when we cast spells, do rituals, etc. It's not a punishment as such nor is it something that we are afraid of,(unlike orgainised religions who advocate eternal damnation etc for even the smallest misdemeanour)
Wiccans; in fact most so called 'Pagan'(ie: non orthodox) religions, realise that we as humans are flawed, and not perfect. So this is a guide, something we should be aware of; rather than a law, hence rule of three, not law.

Celtic I am not having a go at you , and I am sorry if you felt that way .
I am also very well versed in the arts of majik and have many freinds that practise and live the lifestyle . I even know of wiccans as young as 5 because the traditions are passed on by the familly .
I was mearly pointing out the fact that all religions have consequences for the actions that people choose to take.

Even before Christianity, Buddhism, Islam etc. people have worshipped something or other in the way of a God e.g. the sun, so if there wasn't religion as we know it there would always be someone, somewhere worshipping something and someone else who doesn't agree with it, therefore its not religion its the people who are the problem.