So mostly everyone here is trying their hardest to learn how to do stuff like telekinesis and whatnot.

Let me put this in a metaphor.

(I'm not sure if this is a good metaphor, but its all that i can think of right now)

Say you want to grow a flower. Instructions tell you to plant seed in soil, water, let it stand in the sun, and poof, there should be a flower . What happens when the flower dosen't poof? You keep trying and trying but their is still no results. So what do you do? You get a better understanding of it and everything around it. (well, maybe not exactly my point)

But my point is, It would be easier to understand how energy works before you try and do something like bend the spoon. I am not much of a skeptic anymore. I believe we can do these kinds of things.

And I have a question-
Why does everyone say that whole 10% brain thing? I remember that from an episode of bill cosby when Theo thought he was psychic. I don't think that the brain has that big of a role in psychic phenomena.

And the poll thing came from Adventures Beyond the Body by William Buhlman (Its a great read )

Just so you know all the reading and quoting in the world will not bring you any closer to the truth!

There will always be someone to wake you up and tell you that reality is over here!

Are you gonna be that "someone"?

I've read your recent posts, none of them really contributed to the topic...

What do you believe anyway?

Words will end soon

Please move this to the unfortunate comedy section....

INTELEGENCIA

en espanol porvafor

creo que, me gusta este topic, pero, los personas que no me gusta destruian todos los cosas.....


nd no, im not mexcan...

but really, ive never herd anybody elce say that, nd ur right on...

WTF.

We don't really have souls. Souls are just used to describe the mind, personality, etc.. The mind is an electrochemical phenomenon in your brain, produced as the result of physical input, there is nothing miraculous or supernatural about it.

Epter, your post doesn't really make much sense, especailly since supernatural powers don't exist.

epter, i think i get what your saying, like you should try to understand everything that goes ino bending a spoon instead of just staring at the spoon when you really dont know what you're doing! about the 10% thing ppl.maybe saying that if you use more of your brain u can make things happen, but i giess your view is to use your sub-concious(dont know?)

Ha Human souls would never look the same, Starting where ever yourself is, will make and super balance everything.

Don't you dream when you go to sleep? What electrochemical phenomenon allows you to remember why the physics in dreams are soo twisted? From your point of view, You're saying that once we die, We discontinue to exist.

Are you referring to parallel universes?

the other thing is,,, we really dont know sh** about the human brain and how it works... were barly scratching the surface

What the hell are you talking about? Dreams have nothing to do with the soul, mainly just memories. Read this.

And where did I say we continue to exist once we die? The electrochemical activity in our brain requires our body to be living in order to function.

That made no sense.

Can you just shut up for once?

Every living thing is as smart, and probly has thoughts, to achieve or follow.

Where do you get these stupid ideas? Really. It has nothing to do with the topic, and it is totally and fundamentally wrong to the core. All your posts are like that. Do you really believe in the grotesquely flawed garbage that you write, or are you just pushing the number of posts?

Post Whore...

Nothing you write makes sense

I read a scientific study about memory. The scientists were cutting off different peices of rat's brains. The rats had certain training before hand and the scientists wanted to know if they still had that training after they had lost pieces of their brain. They cut off a different piece for each rat. They wanted to find out where exactly is memory stored in the brain. The answer was shocking...

Anyway after the "surgery" on the rats all of them still remembered their training.

What does that mean?

It means:

1)that memory is not stored in any physical location in the brain
or
2)that any one part equals the whole, like a hologram. (Which doesn't really make sense, unless each neuron had every memory you ever had stored inside of it)

The main reason people say the mind is in the brain is because we see our consiousness as coming from the point of view of our eyes.

Huxley calls the brain a reducing valve. As in we would all go crazy if all the outside and inside stimuli were to reach our consious selves. The brain only interprets what is the most useful info and throws the rest out.

and epter's post makes perfect sense. Epter is saying that we should fully understand how something happens before trying to make it happen. As in learn that you have to put the key into the car and turn it before the engine will start. If you go in "blind," and try and start the car by shifting gears and letting go of parking breaks you will not have a desireable result, especially if you are on a hill.

or going on a recent experience you won't fire your M-16A2 rifle if you just pull the trigger. With more knolwedge you would know to:
1) "lock and load one 20 round magazine and assume the prone supported fireing position."
and
2) "rotate the selector lever from safe to semi, and watch your lanes." which means fire when ready

without 1 and 2 you will get 0 of 40 targets and fail BRM.

anyway that is long enough.
hope you guys understand.

EDIT: DO NOT RESPOND TO AVIUS you will only encourage him

-Muddy

What you are saying, muddyfrog, is that memory is stored electrically and wholistically, so non locally, not in a set location of the brain. See Shufflebrain as one example. A warning to those who disapprove of animal experimentation. I'm one of them, but now it's done it turns out to be repugnantly fascinating.

I think Epter is saying that if you concentrate your thoughts enough, you may be able to swing reality in your favour. On the standard level, if you talk to plants you are feeding them your own carbon dioxide exhalations which they use as fuel and recycle into oxygen. Think carbon dioxide into the plants. Disbelieve and you accept mental limitations that someone else taught you?

It may be that the brain is little more than an interface to physical reality. Memory, intelligence, and consciousness don't seem to be directly dependent upon the brain.

If you liked the rat experiment you might also like:
Is your brain really necessary?

Yes, your brain is nessesary

yes that is what I was saying. And without memory what are we? what is left after memory? Without memory I don't think we would function above the level of a 1 year old, would we?

Memory and mind are definately linked strongly. So is mind stored in any set place? I only ask people to think...

Thank you for the link explorer. I apreciate it!


are you sure? and what is it nessesary for?

From Imone's link:

From Imone's link


Imone said:


I would agree with that statement.
And thank you for the link.




-Muddy

Muddy frog, the rat experiment was interesting, yet I doubt that the results obtained from it were useful.

My grandfather suffered a stroke a few years ago, damaging his brain in some way. He lost all his mememory of the prior 10 or so years, and he lost some short term memory (e.g.: sometimes he can't remember where he put some stuff). He remebers everything that happened before that 10 year "hole" and everything after.

I guess that cutting a small portion of the rat's brain will not have an effect on it's whole memory, but maby it will on a small part of it.

However you look at it, you cannot ignore the fact that brain damage affects memory.

Also, I wonder what kind of memories rats have?

And the brain is absolutely vital. It controls everything that happens in your body. Why do you think that brain damage can be so crippling/lethal?

Mmmm, I dunno.... living?

For living...Hell, if you think you don't need your brain...I'll gladly take it out for you My dad is a neurologist anyways, he could do it also

I know you need it. I guess what I meant was an exact use for it. As in everything it does, and nothing it doesn't. I do realize that we do infact need it, atleast during our physical life.

you would not gladly remove my brain, please keep it serious, and confront me on a serious level; I would greatly apreciate that, thank you.

hey wombat I am sorry to hear that. My great grandfather died of a stroke a few years ago. He was 86 or around there. My great grandma (on the other side) also died of a stroke she lived 5 years after it, but we couldn't understand her slured speach. That was the hardest part.

I think the rat study atleast shows that the brain is not static,but dynamic in where it stores info or that life itself is highly adaptable. One thing you should consider is that brain damage affects everyone differently. Some people who lost one whole hemisphere of there brain obviously can't see very well, but they still have there whole memory/personality.

Some results support that the brain has certain "sectors" for certain purpouses. Some results show that all areas of the brain can do any part, but are less "intuned" to do it. I think a lot of it has to do with your life experience, rather than what you are born with.

There were different tests (on humans) where they put to sleep only certain parts of the brain while keeping the test subject consious. They would then have the participents sing, and do arithmetic and other "area" specific things. Some involved sight. By putting the left side "asleep" the right eye would be "blind" and they put up words that crossed both left and right and the people were supposed to read them. They read only the half that was on the same side as the "asleep" part of there brain.

At the same time they were able to remember everything that had gone on in there lives (long term memory) and were able to remember frases and number sequences shortly after being told them (short term memory)


the rats memory was of a maze. The way to get through it to the cheese or whatever. their speed at getting through the maze was proportionate to the size of the brain matter left intact. It did not, however, matter where in the brain they took it from. What this suggests to me is that the whole brain is used for memory in a very dynamic style unlike computers. That the more brain tissue you have the better.

However, they took the peices from different parts of each rat so the part that gets left out would inevitably(sp?) be the part that knows the maze in some rats. They had control rats too. Those rats had there head cut open with no parts removed, so that all rats would have that same trauma, or atleast as close as possible.

yes, i agree, but sometimes the effect can be negligable, sometimes where lots of damage is present. It's rare, but it happens. most cases you are absolutely right.



I don't want to say anything in certainty. Let me make that clear. I just want to point out that the brain is less understood the more we study it. The human brain is said to be the most complex thing in the universe. not based on hard facts of course.

anyway interesting topic, and thank you for the replies.

-Muddy

Muddyfrog

If not already you might be interested to read about one of the most remarkable brain injury cases recorded.

The Story of Phineas Gage

This thread reminded me of his story and arguments about non localisation in the brain.
From the 'Damage' link. "That Gage had no motor impairment or aphasia was prime evidence for Dupuy's anti-localisation arguments."

Another alert for the squeamish is in order, but no gory pictures.

How do you know I am not serious..

Also, I can;t believe this flaw hasn't been pointed out yet..If they removed the rat's brain, how could it run it's maze? Memory is tied to the brain
It's basic neuroscience...Just as cancer is tied to myc and ras expression..

I have read this story before. That guy became extremely ill-tempered among other things as a result of his accident. Also, it does not explain how so many brain damage cases are fatal or crippling.

you are not serious unless you are a murderer. Don't even try and say that you are serious again, about removing my brain.

read silly, you are the only one to make that mistake so far.

I said "cut pieces out of their brains."

And do not use circular logic please. As in... I am saying these results negate that belief(memory is stored in certain parts of the brain), and you come in and say the results can't be real because that belief has to be real.

Or the earth can't be round galileo, because it is flat.

What you may fail to realize is that this was not published in some tabloid or something. It was published in a scientific journal.

The fact is the rats could still run the mazes and yes memory IS tied to the brain, but which part?

Each rat had a different part taken out so that the whole brain was taken out if you add up the different sections taken out of the different rats. Yet each rat still remembered the maze. The size of the piece taken out was the only factor in determining the speed the rats made it through.


wombat:


I agree. I think it shows some people are insanely lucky

-Muddy

That makes more sense to me than most else I've read on that. Damage to the interface would create perception/projection/translation problems causing the symptoms we categorize in medicine and science.

Edit: sorry, forgot to say I voted "true". I think we're spiritual beings in a physical "shell".

I'm glad some people understand what I was trying to present.

WHAT I THINK is that the brain is only used as a transfer-and-storage device for our conciousness. Its not the base of our mind nor the origin of our personality or soul. It is used to interpret what we see in the physical world, and store it into our councioussness. If it was, I do not see how anyone would be able to make choices.

People that are mentally handicapped shouldn't be looked at any less than the average joe. Their transfer-and-storage device is just impaired. They still dream and remember things if they are capable of it. Soo I guess this ends the thread

Now that our Thetans are accounted for, we can all become "clear" again and start auditing with our E-Meters with ease. End of Topic.

Hahaha.

Scientology is so f*cked up.

This is not the case. The brain generates our thaughts, feelings and stores our memory. The soul does not exist. It is the origin of our personality, as it gives info on how to react to different situations. Our conciousness is our interpretation of the physical world. Why do you think that people would not be able to make choises?

I don't get this, what is your point?

Well, it was not published in Nature, to which I subscribe...What journal WAS it published too?

Also, why don't they remove the other parts of the brain to see if THOSE parts store memory? It's a faulty experiment, not deserving of scientific praise...

I would like to know the name of the journal, so I can actually READ the paper on PubMed.