I'm not just picking out Scientology on its own. I've done this for Paganism/Wicca and Christianity before, so don't you dare act like I'm singling anyone out. If you look back in the board, you'll see those two threads.

This is NOT to flame a religion, it's to bring up real issues and let those issues be challenges.

So everyone who is able to make free and intelligent thought, come on down.

Please don't flame.

I have a nice little bit of grief with the Scientologists, and the fact that they feel they need to silence the messages of others. In fact, a recent attack on free speech by Scientology is what prompted me to include them in my What's Your Grief With ....? collection. Most of my reasons can be found at two sites, repectively.

A summary of why I have a problem with Scientology is that it acts like a corporation and claims to be a religion. We can never forget if we have heard them, the cases of people being taken down for exposing 'trade secrets'. Most of the practices seem rather silly too, and I find it quite disturbing that Scientologists have to give up all their money to their Church to raise up in levels. Somehow the religion seems a lot like a money scheme, but to each his/her own.

Late last month, Scientology tried to silence the message of one site, codebot.org. The story is here:

Scientology Can't Stop the Truth

The second link was removed. If you need to know about the less graphic information in it, just ask me through PM.

I hope to get intelligent replies and challenges, so please don't disappoint me.

To appease Becky's Mom, I took down the fair rules. I replaced it with "Please don't flame"

My grief goes back 10 years to the dawn of the web, when a former scientologist posted for the first time their "religious doctrines. They went after this person with a vengence, claiming in court that their doctrines were copyrighted and represented a "trade secret"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnie_Lerma

Gotta love it

1st of all you don't have he right to set the rules for...ANY THREAD...UM has mods to do that...you are not a mod..so kindly stop actuing like one..

2ndly.....what you have posted is freaky stuff...but you could have posted it in a better monner than what you have just done above, with the rules ect...if you want people to reply giving you the replies you so gladly asked for...do so without your rules...

It is much easier to post up a thread with info on it...WITHOUT throwing your weight around...posting up your rules is only encouraging others to be sarky with you...is that what you want?? If not edit now...becuse you are coming across too firm...this is friendly advice...take it any way you please

NOW... From watching the video you posted....it paints a big picture of Scientogogists...as nothing more than money grabbers...a couple of those pics in the video where in fact disturbing...and I cant see the forum mods allowing it...it is a family forum..you should know this

Scientology, IMO is the most annoying religion out there, at leat the ones i have met are worse that the Catholics about judging people, the whole religion is just a money grabber for the people running the churches.I cant really say much else because i dont know really anything about the religious beliefs, but i do know that all the people who are scientologists that i have met are really annoying and spent like 5 hours trying to get me to join scientology (it seems now adays everyone wants to convert everyone else.....)

Why have a grief with religion or scientology? It's all good.



They take money and give it to the church? WTF?

scientology was a way for L. ron hubbard to make money. he even said it himself.
if anyone wanted to get rich quick, they should create their own religion- L. ron hubbard (thats a paraphrase, lol)

because i like having grief with people

Do you think it is only to get those to join...as a way to get into their bank accounts???Crooks behind this religious cult??? If so..its a smart way to rob people blind...who'd of thought of such an idea...lets forum a religious cult...sugar coat it..and make sure we get everyones bank details

Me too. It's fun.

Reason #2: They just will not SHUT UP about the superiority of science.

I think you are right

It's also the same with christians, they just wont SHUT UP about saving our souls. And they wont stop talking about Jesus like he was the only prophet who ever lived. Pisses me off.

Well, sounds like that guy who invented scientology wont be gettin in heaven anytime soon.

In all fairness to christians....I have to take a stand for them..and say...at least christians do not push a person to suicide..and they DONT rob people blind....

Yes christians do set up donations for their churches..but they do it for a GOOD CAUSE....get the picture???

PS I don't think it is fair for you to drag christians into this

They don't push a person to suicide? If I'm not wrong, neither do scientologists. Though they don't come to your door at 8 am to try save your soul. Though hold on a sec, as long as the money doesn't go to the cc church I'm good.

QUOTE

What? So they can keep expanding? and turn other half of the world into christians? Tell me what good cause it's for?

My problem with scientology is people posting a part 3 to a topic that has been discussed in at least 8 other threads in the Spirit & Skepticism forum alone!

But to then post one's own rules to replying to this latest while stipulating we must obey or else face the wrath of "raven" , whom the poster claims to link to all their threads, reminds me of the punk trash I've encountered, that starts chit and then have their other buddies back-up to fight the fights one mouth starts!

You must imagine that bit of snot is intimidating to these member forums moron! Morian. Then again if one assumes to obsess on their enemy long enough, they start to become just like that which they hate! Which is to say such tactics are the same employed by scientology against their perceived "enemies". As we can all read, the "church" clearly made an impression! No wonder you now seek back up here to help you hate them even more! What a miserable life that is, giving so much of one's energy to that which they despise.

How can you prove scientologists dont do this??

And What have christians got to do with this topic?? Like I said...it is UNFAIR to drag christians into this thread....this thread is about scientology...not christians...

You don't know what good causes the christians support??? ok why not check it out for yourself..I know a good few christians will gladly direct you to their good causes....

give them time and you will get your answers

exe11er this thread is not about Christianity and it's right and wrongs, please refrain from trying to derail the conversation

Thankyou

MAM YES MAM! LOL, ok.

Sheesh, didn't expect this thread to turn into a pick-on-the-starter circus because of an attempt to suppress flaming and reinforce the rules since few people read them anyway. [Imaginary Friend, you have invoked my wrath! ]

Regardless, I do not like Scientology one bit. I respect those which I do not like or get along with in most cases, however everything I've heard about Scientology lowers my respect for them more and more. It seems money hungry, but worse, the members can't even realize the outrageous claims of the beliefs. However it is best I quiet down now, for Emperor Xenu does not appreciate his intergalactic children acting up.

Watch the episode of South Park... they have it bang on... Scientology is a money making religion... Why else do you have to pay to join? and why is it their messiah is a science fiction writer? hmmm.. i'm starting to see a pattern here

lol you resort to south park for everything, you said to watch south park on my thread about mormons too, but i agree, its nothing more than a money maker

Scientology



Religion:



Cool huh?

I never PAID to join the Catholic faith when I was one...hmmmm

bm changed her avatar, NOOOOOOOO...anyway....

either scientologists are very persuasive,or tom cruise is shallow...i think its #2...

Oh, thank you for pointing out what I already stated. I said you have to PRAY not pay

To appease a few of you, I took down the 'Fair Rules'. The only reason I put that up was to keep you doing exactly what you did. Anyway...

I put it up as "Vol. 3" because this isn't just Scientology, this is the "What's your grief" collection, a (hopefully) intelligent discussion and challenging of real issues with a religion.

I actually find it quite amusing that you made the same parallel to my name and a derogatory word as a young woman with poor grammar who claims to be Miley Cyrus and uses the word 'duff', whatever the heck that is.
(Had to edit, spelled Cyrus as Sirus. Oops on my behalf.)

I am not going to change my name because we have a lot of childish posters, though.

However, in response to Raven, a load of religions have 'outrageous claims', but are more widely accepted because they are commonplace. Just look at the Egyptian and Hindu pantheons. Even the miracles of the Bible seem quite mild in comparison. We just don't look at them in the same light because we've had a lot of fiction written about aliens, so it seems laughable that our creator or person who placed us here might be an alien.

Please mull this over while I go for tea.

Though I don't believe Scientology, if you didn't have to pay to join, I'd find it much more believable.

L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of this religion, said that you should improve yourself spiritually, and eventually you will begin to help others. This is the same mesage as Jesus and Lao Tzu said. "simplicity", "listening to your inner self", "listen to God", they all mean the same thing, and scientologists dont understand that. They think that they are already enlightened and wise and they try to change the world. Big mistake.
The one mistake L. Ron Hubbard made is making this a religion. He had a good idea, creating a system out of it just doesn't work out very well. So after he saw what was happening, he claimed that his religion was all a joke. But his followers were so into it that they theought he was just crazy or something.

Interesting point of view, one with nature.

Really, I'd never thought of it that way. I can most definitely see something like that happening. It happens with a lot of religions. They have a good idea base, but then they go and try to turn it into a structured religion, and it all goes to chaos.

Thanks for your input, and I hope to see more of you around (I see that you're pretty new.)

I like the new one...Jay passed me the pic...LOL


I dont understand as to how these scientologists are persuaive...are people really that thick?? is it a case of..... "Ok here is my bank details...destroy me in any way you see fit"

Will people be robbing banks...just to donate to this church??? how anyone can create a religion..to scam people and brainwash them...is beyond me....I 'd soon convert to a christian, before I would convert to this nonsense, at least if I where christian...my bank balance would be safe!!!!

Scientology has nothng to do with religion in the traditional sense... although there are many parallells, and it spoofs religion if you are inclined to look for humour in the absurd...., humans beleive alot of things this is just another human construct.... and humans are very comforted and attached to their ideas no matter how they seem.....


Opting out of the religous genre myself, I still hear storys and most notablly coming from a catholic family they most definitely have their hand in their parishioners wallet ....all religions are based in money without it they wouldn't be, its certainly not the ideas that keep them going.... IMO that is......lol

My main problem with Scientology is that it uses celebs to hype the relegion. The celebs make fools of themsleves in the name of relegion. A good example is Tom Crusie. Also Very little of the relegion is known to outsiders.

LOL isn't tom cruise like the only scientologist celebrity? If I remember correctly, most celebrities at the mtv video awards thank God not science.

Not there are sevral. Tom Cruise is the most outspoken I think.

Yup...he is..along with his partner Katie Holmes...his best friend Kirsty Alley...and I cant recall the other celebs..I know the other two hollywood stars are a couple ...but for now I cant recall their names

That wacko converted his wife too. Sorry I'm getting off-topic. Back on-topic.

there are several celebirty scientoligists i live fairly close to the celebirty center in hollywood have been there myself many times, anyone can go there for the record.... I have a friend that is a scientoligist, John Travolta, Lisa Presley, Juliette Lewis to name but a few...John Travolta and Kirstie Alley are very vocal...but i don't find it unusual...its what they beleive of course they are gonna talk about it..... They have great issue with using medication to treat mental illness and are very outspoken against it , some just don't feel kids should be on riddlen and what not antidepressents that it has become a big moneymaker..Pharmesuticals therapy...We all have things we stand for.. a drug free humanity isn't he worst thing.....i'm not sure as to this whole money thing, i haven't seen it a scientoligist pays for classes and books just as any religion charges for its education, they also help alot of young people get on ther feet who otherwise have nothing else going, there are dorms at the celebirty center.....alot of things are hearsay , some are factual but alot gets embellished too.........i have no issue with them, the philosophy is different and hard to understand but it appeals to some..It seems more could try and understand them not put them down becasue "some don't 'get it" Its probably not for everyone....lol

Damn, not john travolta.

She isnt his wife LOL..she will be though and it stands to reason...she is following her partner..its what most patners do..ya know SUPPORT EACHOTHER??

Well, maybe if you'r partner is a wacko who is obessesed with you, and wants you to be exactly the way they want you to be.

umm NOPE....my partner dont care for lables...neither do I

Well tom cruise isn't your husband, this guy is:

quit posting up pics of yourself exceller...remember...a lot of people here will have nighmares LOL...you should have posted a public warning with that pic

And quit trying to tell people you are my hubby...darn it boy..I have a rep to keep up

1) I'm beautiful, no matter what you say, cuz words can't bring me down.

2) I don't think we have to worry about peope thinking I'm your hubby, since I'm like half your age, which may seen wrong and disturbing in some ways.

Nope but looking in a mirror can



Lol just joking


i think this thread has lost it's way.

Heh. My fiancee and I are 20 years apart. We know of a couple that has a 23 year age gap.

Does Scientiology condone age diffrences in couples?

Yes I'm sorry for going off-topic, I'd hate to see this thread get locked...



Well then i guess I got nutin to worry about

Now, back on-topic.

Please step back onto the topic, everyone. Please, no more one-liners. I was hoping after the initial circus that I could bring it back to the original topic instead of a flame fest. Please, I don't need any crap tonight... I'm having a pretty good one.

Recently I have done a bit deeper study into Scientology's controversies. Based on the fact that (my tally could be off by a few, I didn't triple check) there were about 128 documented mysterious deaths, murders, and near-suicides on one site that I looked at, I am glad I am not in the religion. This may look small in comparison to the death tolls of other circumstances, but most of them were shrouded in mystery.

There have been many scandals with Scientology, all of which can be found on wikipedia if you wish to do some deeper research into it.

^Just remember that any death can be made to look suspicious if we dig deep enough. It could just be spin-doctoring. Don't always trust what you read, it only tells one side of a story (and not always an impartial side, either).

Regards, PA

I agree with PA especially on line, unless you are a subscriber or a member of a university and have accsess to good sources i wouldn't be too quick to beleive too much of what I found on line....Someone once said gossip was a language at one time for some it still is i suppose........If i want to know about scientology i'm gonna contact Scienctology and ask them what they are about...Morian go straight to the source....I have a dear friend that is one and he is abit kooky and i don't really get his ideas on things but he means well and trys to be the best he can be and there is no unsolved mysterious deaths...He has said there are alot of crazy storys circulating about scientologists....Like the one tha tif you opt to no longer be a scientologist they send out a hit man...good gossip but not true.... buyer beware....As I've said i've been to the celeberty center many times there was nothing cryptic or anyone trying to link to my checking account....lol.....The people were gracious and helpful and intereesting regardless ..............

But it's....ok...to believe and read other things on line that suits our own needs.....and to use Google as a keen tool, to prove a few points, to try and settle our own debates...AHA....to share knowledge??? ohh I get it

Point taken, but I don't plan to join the Church of Scientology to find out if it's all up to scratch. I think I'm quite comfortable in the spiritual position I'm in.

Any Scientologists lurking around who'd like to give their two cents? We should have at least one Scientologist around. This is a pretty big site.