she took half of his fig leaf

If anyone is interested there was a small tv movie made about lillith. It was a kinda supernatural buffy type movie which starred Shiri Appleby (Roswell)
The tv movie was called Darklight, not sure if it was any good though.
If you search for it sumwhere you might find it.

Supplements for roleplaying games is not what I would call "Historically" accurate. I have it and it is a good read wether you play Vampire the Masquerade or not.

Unless of course there is another Book of Nod.

"What ever happened to Lillith?"

She never existed in the first place.

If you hadn't heard, Lillith was Adams first wife, Made from the same clay as Adam, and she was his equal.

Not so. Eve was the only wife adam had. The biblical texts have existed long long before any text was written in regards to lillith.

Apparently, she didn't like Adam's assumption that he was boss, and left.

Has anyone else heard of this? I originally heard about this in a humanities class while discussing world religions. Apparently, this is one of many omissions that are absent

The Lilith that we know is a bastardized version of a goddess worshipped for thousands of years in the area between the Tirgis and the Euphrates, when the Jews were taken and held there they were exposed to the stories of thier captors and one of them was Lilith. It has to be said that turning the Goddess of your enemy into a vampire, blood sucking baby killer is no more than religious propoganda. Religious propoganda in the name of making sure the little lady stayed in her place is rampant among the texts of the bible, and other religions. The King James bible is known to have had many changes to make sure that instances where women were to have ministered, in the preaching sense, were changed to "nurse" or succor.

Which is why all the modern christians I know don't read the king james bible. We examine the expanded english translation, and mostly adhere to the original hebrew texts. The Expanded version is basically the english companion of the hebrew texts, for those who can't read hebrew.

That womens roles in the bible went from being equals being actual contributors to spreading the word of Jesus to becoming no more than just a whore or a virgin,.

Strange, that's not how it happened in my bible. God does tell women to submit to their husbands, but what women who has a man who is desperately and genuinely in love with her wouldn't be willing to heed his words?

In the Bible, women play an extremely pivitol and important role. Look at the story of Ester. She was a Queen, back when a Queen was "sent for", and not a major part of the monarchy whatsoever. But she swayed the tides of a kings decisions. In essense, she was MUCH more influential then the king at the time. Read her story.

One poster posed the question why would they do this, well at the time of the king James version, women were still in the throes of early european holocausts where, if a woman owned land, or knew herb lore she was cursed as a witch. Not a great time to be a woman but a great time for the only guy in power to make sure that stayed the status quo.

Yep! However, that has not held up in recent years whatsoever. Infact, women have become empowered just as much as men are in the last few dacades. And as far as I know, the christian faith has remained the same. Seems like the ones in power at the said time were the ones truely influencing the weaker masses. If christianity truely puts down women, then why has women equality been allowed to flourish? The fact of the matter is, that no matter what a written biblical text says, it will not change the teachings of God, nor the faith in Him. Sadly, many are easily led astray. But Christians these days, at least some of them, are extremely intellegent, and have studied the indescrepencies of various translations.

As for Lilith, I do think that more than one woman identified with having the main diety be female only to have the writers of the time go, uh sorry no, lets make her a demon, as we know women haven't historically been held in high regard.

The hebrew texts are the purest form of the bibvle. they have been copied word for word for thousands of years. The Torah, the first five books of this text, is known to be the purest of the pure translations, and has never been edited by jewish priests. And if you read these texts, there is not a single mention of Lilith in them. The concept of lilith was invented hundereds and hundereds of years after the torah was compiled.

The only reason Mary has rose to the hieghts of her followers is she is/was really the representation of the Great Goddess to many Europeans who worshipped the Goddess before pre Christian times.

That exactly true. The Roman empire decided to make "Christianity" the statewide religion. But Pagans ruled the lands at the time. The Roman Catholic Church did two major things: They put mary on the level of a goddess, because goddess worhip was the most prominent following at the time. They also made december 25th, a known pagan holiday, into "Christ's Birthday", which it is not.


Supplements for roleplaying games is not what I would call "Historically" accurate. I have it and it is a good read wether you play Vampire the Masquerade or not.

Unless of course there is another Book of Nod.

I fully agree. Re read this quote people. Let it sink in.

hmmm- I don't ever remember hearing about this in Sunday school...interesting though!

Sunday school is the most primitive form of Christian education, but a nessesary step none the less. There are some things left out of said school simply because a child is not ready to learn about them.

You would not instruct a four year old how to drive a car. Nor ever a 14 year old.

Lilith as Adam's First Wife
In Jewish traditions, Lilith was created with Adam from the dust of the earth, & became his first wife. She was stubborn, though, & refused to be subservient to her husband. Instead of becoming Adam's servant, she left him & was turned out of Paradise. However, before God created Eve, He sent 3 angels to try to convince Lilith to return to Adam. She refused, & God cursed her by sentencing 100 of her offspring to die each day. After her expulsion from Paradise, however, she slept once more with Adam, & bore the Shedim, Lilin, & Rauchin. The Alphabet of Ben Sira contains the first cohesive story of this. This text is dated somewhere between the 8th & 10th cent. CE, and its place within Jewish midrash has been debated.
After Lilith was kicked out of the garden of eden, she apparently slep with a demon and had children and 100's of years later on of her children fed of a human and thats how vampires came into existance

I seriously don't doubt this.

I dunno though. I'm not a believer of the bible.

But it doesn't seem unlikley - you know, a free-spirited woman.

After all, the bible does say that he gave humans free will, I dunno why he got so pissed.

Perhaps the decendents of lilith are all those girls who don't like the guys who treat them right, only the badasses who treat them like crap. They are the only real vampires, you know, taking all your favors then deciding they like some dumbass better.

Sorry, I just recently had a bad experience with a woman like that. lol I'm done now.

she just wanted to be equal to adam and when he refused she got pissed off and left and god punished her for that.

if she really existed maybe or it could just be a story or legend in the bible to warn women to be subservient to their man or else they will be banned or something like that.

personally i think she did good, you go girl!

I believe there are other posts about her. Should check those out.

Since it is all mythology, wondering about Lilith is kinda like wondering about Hera or Athenia or Isis or any other mythological personage, just a waste of time and effort!

or helen

she and niles got divorced

she wasn't mentioned in "the life of brian" either that I can remember

Brian: No. No, please! Please! Please listen. I've got one or two things to say.
Crowd: Tell us. Tell us both of them.
Brian: Look. You've got it all wrong.
You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
Crowd: Yes, we're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
Crowd: Yes, we are all different!
Some Guy: I'm not.
Crowd: Shhhhhh Shhh.
Brian: You've all got to work it out for yourselves!
Crowd: Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!
Brian: Exactly!
Crowd: Tell us more!

Yes but mythology has had a massively powerful impact on human history hasn't it, and still does -- after all, billions (apparently) of people still follow the Christian, Moslem, Judaic and Hindu mythologies don't they, and look @ the issues/ problems we still have associated with those -- besides which, Lilith is about more than a mythological figure, she's also (arguably) kind of a reaction against the moronic, sexist assumptions of Christianity (in particular) and of momotheism in general, isn't she?

Iv done some research on Lillith before. I do believe she has a serious bum rap also. Iv always been interested in Lillith and even considered naming my daughter Lillith or a version of Lillith, but sinse my mom and dads German Shepard's name is Lily, it was an ideal quickly shot down.

Id love to see the picture of Lillith that someone here said they had.

If its so easy to believe in Adam and Eve and their tale is as old as the bible then why not believe that there is some kinda truth to Lillith, her tale is just as old, just not so well known.

In Jewish/Christian mythology Lilith is a demon but in Sumeria she was a moon goddess

I believe in Jewish mythology, Lilith was Adams first wife who spurned him and then became a demon.

Lilith


Edit: Added link.

WOW, ive found out so much here, ive never heard of Lillith, i thought it was just Adam and Eve in the story, thank you so much for the information, and i will be sure to look at this in greater detail.

Jester I just added a link to my previous post.

I take it you are no longer married? since Lillith is suppose to be the mother of all vampire's; Adam was lucky if that was all she got!!!

Thank you very much charon, i will be sure to read into this, thanks .

If you google Lilith you will come up with more links.

I too, never heard of Lillith.

Thanks guys for the links, I plan on doing some reading.

Sounds like she wanted a divorce but since there wern't womens rights back then she had to walk alone...maybe she became happier...maybe he was a snorer...ew!

Appearantly Adam was a polygamist anyway...lol

he was a narcissist
he loved himself

I don't know why God created Eve from Adam's rib instead of dirt. Perhaps the Lilith myth was a story about how two seperate beings couldn't work together. There was no connection between the beings. By Eve being part of Adam, it also made them connect better than having them being created totally seperatly. I believe someone stated that earlier, not for sure.

Being created from Adams rib is not to be taken lightly. The rib protects the heart and lungs. The rib bone from what I hear heals quickly and can be used in different medical procedures. Something about the blood cells in the rib bone.

I don't see Christianity trying to make woman second best. I see Eve being the protector of Adam's heart, a touching and supportive side of man. A leader needs support from a partner. Adam may have been the leader, but that doesn't mean Eve was second best or meant to be treated like trash. Each gender has different roles to fill.

That's just my $.02 from what I have studied.

cendari, you could also say that men and women cannot co-exist if they are both equal.


please ladies, do not eat my soul. i will need it to be reborn

I will agree men and women are not equal, it's a fact of live you will find women who are as strong as men but there are far and few between, but i do not want to be as strong, yes we are as smart, and we can do the same type of jobs but there some jobs that men are better built for also; when was the last time you seen a man have a baby? we were not meant to be the same!and that fine with me as long as a man shows me respect, why would i care if he is stronger bigger, i don't but at the same time we should get paid the same if we are doing the same job,it always boils down to lesser of the evils i guess,

Equality huh
If I could find a woman who'd be quite happy to support me while i do a little child care each day watch 5 hours daytime T.V. cook one meal in a 24 hour period and have sex with the milkman whenever i felt like it i'd go for it.,
I'm all for equality

You know Marduk not all women are like that, there are those of use who work 40hrs a week cook every meal take care of our children and yes still have time for sex with our husbands, not the milkman, there are women in this world who do not need to lie and will have respect for not only themselves but for the men they are with as well, and some women do not cheat no matter how bad it gets, you just have to find the right one,

and doing it equally as well. Then again, if someone does a better job, they sould get paid more, regardless of gender.

see the
that means
NOT SERIOUS
I would only watch 4 1/2 hours tv a day. and i fancy the postman
hehe

Well if you get right down to it the postman and milkman do not make enough money! if your going to do it might as well go for the big buck's does that sound more like a women to you Marduk!!

Better to be an old man's darling tha a young man's slave - that's waht mummy always told me!

looks like my soul will be fine....

That's what you think...

When you say "big bucks" are you talking about livestock or money
either one fits

That would depend on what turns you on me i never cared for live stock, but i hear some people do!

I'm just glad "Big Bucks" wasn't a typo ?
That'd be too close to the knuckle for my comfort
hehe

ok Murduk very cute,you know i only have one hand right now,

Yes your's is fine;its Marduk were after right now, isn't that right big boy!!

Interesting first thing I noticed was demon comment. Now I could be wrong but want the fall of Lucifer after creation? If so that means Demons existed long before Lucifer fell and became ruler of Demins and all that is evil. Just an observation I have no background to prove or disprove this just jumped at me when I read it. I do find story very interesting and wish I knew more of it.

there were no demons before the fall 0f lucifer, if there was i have never heard of them, there were angles who came to earth and mated with the females on earth thus making god very mad;but they had not fallen then that is the story i have always heard.

This is the way I heard it. The first people to assemble the Bible in its entirety intentionally left out pieces that caused it to look like an evil book, because they wanted to expand the religion of Christianity. These pieces that were left out became known as the Book of Enoch. The book includes the story of Lilith, angels seducing men and being cast out of heaven, the man who became known as the holy warrior Metatron, and more. Very interesting, though I haven't read it myself, it looks like a great tome of knowledge .

ooooh looks leike we have another ashley here. seiko. chat so someone called ashley star child about enoch

IMO god has always been very Mad.
especially in the old testament before he got religion

Ok so did fall of Lucifer take place before Man? I thought problems between God and Lucifer involved Man therefore Lucifers fall took place after man meaning no demns until then. Which suggest Lilith could NOT have taken up with demons see how I got confused!?

It depends on which religious tract you're getting your facts about lilith from
In christian myth she doesn't exist. she was cut from the final cut of the bible as being a bad example to women
In judaic myth she is known as lilith. She was the first wife of adam and a demon.
In babylonian myth she was called lilitu (you didn't think the jews were original did you. lol). She was a moon goddess and handmaiden of Inanna
In sumerian myth She was known as bel iti. She was a mother Goddess.

Before that who knows.
Lilith is older than christianity
she is older than judaism
for the last 7000 years of her existence she has only been portrayed as evil in the last 2000. By the Jews and the christians alone.
fyi the jews were exiled in babylon in 550bce where they first heard about lilith.
It was them that demonised her.
They didn't like her because she was a patron of their captors.
well thats just tough guys. Get over it.
Lilith is a Goddess not a demon.Unless you're jewish.
Kapeesh

The Judeao-Christian story of the fall of Lucifer takes place before the creation of Adam and Eve and Eden. ..hence lucifer in the garden in serpent form trying to corrupt God's new creation. Lucifer, it is reported, was God's right-hand man and thought himself God's equal, seeking to rule, (much like Lilith, eh?) and God banished him, along with the angels that sided with him. He's spent the rest of this time trying to screw with mankind.