The story of moses and his walk up the mountain to see god is one of the central stories to the Bible. However when looked at through less believing eyes a horrible truth begins to reveal it self.

You see the story goes that moses and his people all went to the base of the mountain where Moses told everyone that god had instructed him to say that no man but he could climb the mountain and they would wait below.

He then proceeded to climb the mountain where he allegedly met god who gave him various instructions. Lastly he returned to the valley and his people to give the orders from above. Does anyone know what one of those orders was.

God says you need to give me all your items forged of gold. That has to be one of the oldest tricks in the books. the old God said give me your money trick, It at least dates back to Moses's time.

If today someone came to your home and told you that god said You MUST give him all your money what would you do. Oops that happens all the time whenever the Salvos, or the various churches come knocking. "My son you shall spend eternity in heaven just so long as you pay me money. And you should note that the more money you pay the better heaven you get."

it looks like moses was just setting the scene for more church money stealing.

AtlantisRises, could you please post specific verses?

I think you might have misread what was said, I have read through the entire book of Exodus, and I'm telling you I haven't found anything where Moses says that you need to give up your gold, I believe it was talking about where God did not like images FORGED of gold that represent idols and FALSE GODS, the story of the golden calf is something God appeased, and it was made out of golden bracelets and relics, but never once have I heard that Moses was said to have every gold piece handed over to him, that just wouldn't make sense.

Agreed

Umm... I have to agree with the others here. What Moses purportedly came down the mountain with was the ten commandments. I haven't been to church in a long long long time, but I don't remember one being "Thou shalt give me all your gold."

Sounds like atlantis had a bad day and needs someone to point the finger at and make stuff up.
Maybe he had a bad nite at the casino.
All sorts of religious denominations knock on my door,its up to me if i want to give.They don't steal from me.If you think they convince me through stories of a better heaven if i give ,then you underestimate the power of individual belief and the bettering of local happiness and well being.Love thy neighbor DUDE.............................

But he did LOL he said...Yo heathens...gimme all thou gold..your credit cards...atm cards (dont forget the pin codes) ...house deeds....and make it snappy...or else LOL honest!!!


well just thought, id lighten the mood

If he really wanted to just take their gold would he spend all that time working
out the plagues and wandering around the desert?

Speaking of Moses, God and gold I have always found this amusing...

Exodus 20:21-23

"And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was. And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold."

Exodus 25:1-4

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass, And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair.... [and on and on, etc]"


Moses approaches the darkness(?) where God was and God says, "Don't you and the children of Israel make idols or false gods out of gold and silver(or you will feel my furious anger I'm sure), but b!tch you had better give me some offerings of gold, silver, brass, fine linen...just empty your pockets OK? You're going to make an Ark to put my Commandments in it and walk it around treating it like an idol(a physical object representing my authority). Got it?"

Moral of the story, gold and silver for other gods, BAD. Gold and silver for YHWH, GOOD!

Great post hh This is one of the most influential posts i've ever seen on this forum

Hey thanks, it was the moral of the story wasn't it?

Put so eloquently, who could disagree

gods eternal word! Well posted HH.

"Slave Species of God" By: Michael Tellinger
Read that book and you'll never look at any religious mythos now believed to be sacred and eternal, the same way again.

Well then I guess I better not read it

I'm just saying though, I have no idea where this conspiracy came in, anyways it's pretty much faulty if anything.

I'm still waiting for those verses, Atlantis.

By the way, Hermetic Hermet, just to let you know I believe that verse about the "offering" might not be what you think it is.

I thought the people were worshipping a idol of a golden calf then moses smashed the ten comandments then went back up and got another set of them or something like that. But i did not think he asked for their gold. Im not too sure can someone let me know if im wrong.

Send Me Your Money - Suicidal Tendencies

Lights, camera, silence on the set
Tape rolling, 3-2-1-action
Welcome to the church of Suicidal
We'll have a service and wonderful recital
But before we go on, there's something I must mention
An important message I must bring to your attention
I was in meditation and prayer last night
I was awakened by a shining bright light
Over head, a glorious spirit
He gave me a message and you all need to hear it
"Send me your money", that's what he said
He said to "Send me your money"
Now if you can only send a dollar or two
There aint a hell of alot I can do for you
But, if you want to see heaven's door
Make a check out for five hundred or more
"Send me your money", do you here what I'm saying?
"Send me your money"

Now give me some bass, um yea that's how he likes it
Now give me some silence, for all you sinners
Now give me some bass, yea that was funky
Now take them on home Brother Clark, send me your ...money
Here comes another con hiding behind a collar
His only god is the almighty dollar
He aint no prophet, he aint no healer
He's just a two bit goddamn money stealer
Send me your money
Send it, you got to send it
Send me your money
You hear what I'm saying?
Send it, send it
Send me your money
Now how much you give is your own choice
But to me it's the difference between a prosche and a Rolls
Royce
I want you to make it hurt when you dig into your pocket
I want you to make it hurt!
We'll take cash, we'll take checks
We'll take credit cards, we'll take jewelry
We'll take your momma's dentures if they got gold in them
So whose gonna be the next king of the fakers
Whose gonna take the place of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?
See my momma, she didn't raise no fool
Cause you can't put a price on a miracle
Amen
=====================

1990 was a good year.

Saturday's the Sabbath. Sunday's the day you get your earnings and give up a portion as an offering. The gold calf was made from the gold from the people that they volunteered to donate (against God/Moses) and Moses didn't even melt it down and spend it... noooo... he destroys it. Good gold down the drain.

A good question is, where did the Israelites get all of this gold, silver and fanciness from? They were slaves. Slaves do not have such riches.

Oh yes I am aware of Exodus 12:35 but I don't buy it. They asked to "borrow" all of this from the Egyptians? No I do not believe this was possible nor do I believe this would be the correct thing to do. I also believe the right word for this is "stole" gold and silver from the Egyptians, which would obviously result in anger and a pursuit. How many Israelites were there? And how did they manage to "borrow" all of these riches? Gold was considered the skin of the gods in Ancient Egypt.

Frankly I don't buy it, it smells fishy to me and if something smells fishy to me you can bet that I have already scaled it, deboned it, fried it and ate it, hhmm

The origins of my arguments was from a conversation that i had with my local pastor who is quite forward in pointing out the flaws in the various churches doctrines. I believe the bases of his story was the very same verse that the Hermetic Hermit presented earlier, however i will discuss it with him next time i see him (for he is a great person for long pointless discussions concerning religion, atheism as well as philosphy) I will ask for his bases of the argument he put to me.

I will also ask if i have perhaps misinterpereted his meaning but i do not believe this to be so. Indeed it seemed that he was quite adamant and while he may not have called Moses a thief he did mention the fact that so much of what he and other prophets may have been told must be taken with a grain of salt as they rarely have a visitation in the midst of a crowd, Perhaps god is Shy,

At anyrate if i have misunderstood him i will apologise, on the other hand if not i will provide as much necessary documentation as possible.

One time you might be referring to was when God instructed Moses to get from the Israelites certain materials .. gold, silver, bronze, yarn, fine linen, etc. for the construction of the Tabernacle, as a sanctuary for the Lord to dwell among them (Exodus 25:1-8).

Exodus 32:1-6 outlines the time when Moses was on Mt. Sinai with God. He was there for a very long time and the people of Israel got angry and asked Aaron, Moses' brother to fashion an idol for them. So Aaron took their gold earrings and fashioned it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf.

The rest of the story and why Moses threw the first stone tablets on the ground and broke them, and the consequence of the Israelite's sin, is contained in vs. 15-28 of Chapter 32.

And, actually, Moses' aide, Joshua, went with him up the mountain (Exodus 24:13) but didn't enter the cloud covering that surrounded Mt. Sinai where God was.

Even with "less believing eyes", before you start calling Moses a thief, check out what the Bible really says.

Couple of problems here: First, I am not aware of any sources of gold in Sinai; though, there may be one I have not heard of.). Where did they get the gold? Second, the emulsion Moses made from the graven calf made the people sick. Gold is inert in the body and won't hurt you. BUT, there are copper mines in Sinai - several of them. Copper looks a lot like gold and is poisonous. I submit that the "golden calf" was made out of copper.

Other problem: Where was Mount Sinai? To make a molten statue, you need a smelter. The only known ancient smelters in Sinai are all in the vicinity of Aqaba on the Gulf of Aqaba. That argues that Mount Sinai was near Aqaba. But the Israelites didn't get there until long after Moses went up Mount Sinai, so Mount-Sinai-near-Aqaba would be drastically out of sequence with the biblical account.

There's a lot more to this story. It will take more time to discuss than we have available. If anyone wants to go into this deeper, let's do it by email.

I submit that both Moses and the Exodus were composite stories of real people and real events that have been conflated and confused to make a story that didn't actually happen the way it is told in church. BUT, if you read what is actually written in the Bible and ignor what the churches say about it, you can fit it into history quite well.

--DJS

Actually by today's standards Moses would be considered a War Criminal

Do you go to church ?

Well if he was talking with his local pastor..then it could be abvious

If Moses says.. please give your heart.. what you people talk about moses.. murderer?

Ah, but he was only following orders .....

So the bible has stated...yes...but if the story where 100% pure fact...he could well have been obsessed of God and was under the illusion, he was following orders...IMO of course

I thought a tree on fire talked to him, then he heard voices in his head. I don't think he was hallucinating. I really think God communicated with him through his soul.

Im sorry but if a burning bush broke into a conversation with me and then i began to hear voices i would be worried about my mental health lol

Or would you. You would never understand unless it really happened to you.

That's just harsh man.....

Anyway back on topic or someone will come along and close the thread.

Didn't many nazis use that same excuse?

If a God told me to do that, I'd say no, its something called free will.

Then it would not be the bush burning. I think moses could have been a con man it has been said that many ancient civilizations were good astronomers so what if he was able to tell when a eclipse would appear or he would tell the tide would go out making it look like he was making the sea was parting or disappearing.




Removed quote.

well...than, i guess i would just walk away... im not gunna sit there and talk to a plant

I wonder what mosses would have done if he came across the singing bush off the three amigos instead of a burning bush. But sorry for going off topic.

Set the bush on fire.

LOL there are people that do talk to plants...but not plants that go on fire ...unless they are looped

How starnge how this thread was on about mosses and now we all are talking about talking plants.


Im afraid and ashamed to say we are lousy at staying on topic.

We are on topic. The talking bush is related to moses.

What exceller has said is true..the talking bush/plant is related to moses..if you had of read it, you would have known this

My first post...

Well considering that there are absolutly no records kept by the Egyptians on Moses and they kept records for almost everything signifigant. I am inclined to say that Moses is purely a fictional character with no basis in reality at all. The Egyptians have no records of Jewish slaves either and there is no evidence in the region of any either. Infact I beleive it is said that the slaves built the pyramids yet clearly in ancient Egyptian art it depicts Egyptians building their own pyramids. It does make sense since they prided themselves on their abilities when it came to constructing huge monuments.

I know there are no records of him LOL I dont believe in the bible stories

Not quite...

This is excerpted from Wiki:

Moses in history

Skeptical historians, generally called "Biblical minimalists", suggest that Moses never actually existed as a historical figure, and that the Exodus is mythical. On the other hand, historical records are so fragmentary that extra-Biblical records of Moses may have been long lost. For example, if the Exodus occurred during the end of the Hyksos era in Egypt (16th century BCE), as some scholars believe, then any Hyksos records of Moses would have been deliberately destroyed by victorious Egyptians as they drove the Hyksos out of Egypt. Destruction of unfavorable records by unsympathetic Pharaohs, and even mass obliteration of cartouches from monuments, is known to have occurred at several epochs in Ancient Egyptian history.

Known extra-Biblical references to Moses date from many centuries after his supposed lifetime, and contain significant departures from the Biblical account. In addition to the Judaeo-Roman historians Flavius Josephus and Philo, a number of pagan historians including Polyhistor, Manetho and Tacitus make reference to him. The extent to which any of these accounts rely on earlier sources is unknown.

According to the historian Flavius Josephus, Moses led the Egyptians in a campaign against invading Ethiopians and routed them. While Moses was besieging the city, Tharbis, the daughter of the Ethiopian king, fell in love with Moses and wished to marry him. He agreed to do so if she would procure the deliverance of the city into his power. She did so immediately, and Moses promptly married her. This marriage is also mentioned in Numbers 12:1 (Cush**e meant Ethiopian; Zipporah was Midianite, definitely not Ethiopian). The account of this expedition is also mentioned by Irenaeus, and it explains why St. Stephen refers to Moses as "mighty in his words and in his deeds" before Moses slayed the Egyptian (Acts 7:22).

Moses also features prominently in later traditions such as the Midrash, Mishna and Qur'an; these texts draw on and diverge from Biblical accounts. See the article on The Bible and history. In the 3rd century BCE, Manetho, a Hellenistic Egyptian chronicler and priest, alleged that Moses was not a Jew, but an Egyptian renegade priest, called Osarseph, and portrayed the Exodus as the expulsion of a leper colony. A similar assertion is made by the Roman historian Tacitus in the Book 5 of his Histories.

Even if Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. Manetho's claim that Moses was an Egyptian is quite plausible. However, to be fair that's not very different from the assumption that he was adopted into an Egyptian family, so the theory may only be one of perspective, not an actual challenge to the traditional narrative. It has been suggested that he may have been an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the religion of Aten (see Freud's theory below), or simply sympathetic to Hebrew culture. Moses is an Egyptian name-element meaning "-gave birth to him" or "-formed him" and was usually combined with a theophoric element, as in "Ramose" which had the meaning "child of Ra" or "Ra formed him". The Hebrews might have fabricated the "bulrushes" story along the lines of the tales of Sargon of Akkad (Mesopotamian) or Oedipus (Greek) to legitimize his position. On the other hand, infants were sometimes abandoned by the lower classes in ancient times, and "Moshe" is a Hebrew word (meaning "one who draws water").

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

Even still the Egyptians nor anyone else has records of him and the only refrences you give are speculation and theory. There is nothing to back them up either.

Moses never existed and the only refrences to him are in religeos texts which are highly questionable to begin with. An example of this is the Noah's Ark story which was clearly borrowed from and old sumerien story. I think most of the stories featured in these books are about as factual as saying the world is flat.

To put it simply the Bible or whatever poison you choose cannot be used in a lot of cases.
Even if someone was called Moses in the region he was still not the same one mentioned in the bible. Just like Jesus was not the only Christ there were many christs as it was a title not the name of a person.

Of course, you would blame the pyramids on aliens.

I know the US armed forces uses the same excuse. If you disobey a direct order, you will be court marshalled (sp?).

From the top of my head, all that I've read about Moses and the possibility of him existing, I'm willing to bet he was a real person, or at least based on a real person. I'm also willing to bet that the events that took place involving Moses are highly exaggerated.

go and lay down you silly goose you have no idea..but whats new with you eh?? LMAO

I'm just saying if you don't think Moses existed than how is it that the Egyptian empire was crippled without it's large vast amount of slaves to build the pyramids?

I dont know for sure if he did or not exist...but if he did...the bible has not told the story right as far as I am concerned...yea right God is a killer...he killed all the 1st borns to get some king to free Mosses's people ...nuts to that....God is not a killer...if he wanted to get the king to set the people free...he would have done something else other than killing innicent children...

lol