If I was good enough, I would love to go to a university and have them study my telekinesis.

I'm just... you know... not good enough yet.

Kazuma the truth is (from my point of view) that realistically speaking, if a person presents an expectation they should be prepared to offer a reasonable and realistic way for you to accomplish it (Otherwise the expectation is unrealistic). Now, with respect to being tested, as has been made clear, there is a means available right on this site and if you can live up to the expectations of those offering the tests they will make that very clear to you.

But there is no reason for you to commit yourself at this time and neither is there any reason for you to feel obligated to prove anything to anyone that does not treat your personal welfare as a matter of priority. Such as parents, really good friends (people you known for a very long time like those you have grown up with) and so on, I feel are relevant, because they are the ones who usually will be honest with you and will act in your best interests.

Any thoughts?

PS: Kazuma

Thats crap. Please give us a link to 90% of the scientist who believe in it.

I am not speaking out for just myself. I am speaking for all those who believe in telekinesis. They do not have to prove anything if they do not want to. This topic is for helping people, not criticizing them.

It is an open forum not a tree house. They can be questioned about these supposed powers.

LAWL....noob i can move people in there cars and make it look like there driveing!!!!

Well Triad you seem to be very knowledgable in this Pk phenomena!

I am sorry if you dont like the way i commented on Kazuma's posts!
But he just seems like another child on here claiming to have these abilities.


And what do you call these claims Triad? (Plausible) good luck with that!


I am sorry Oh' Kind and seemingly knowlegable person but absolutely nothing about what i think has been debunked. That is what this topic is about information and debate.
As far as if this phenomena will ever come to a conclusion i do not know!

Your saying that because you think he is a child that you do not agree with what he states means he should be told his comments are rubbish? Yes I am knowledgeable of Pk phenomenon and actually am part of the reason Universities have departments in
relation to the subject of parapsychology.



Silentom what would you call Jesus Christ? The fact of the matter is as far as opinion the majority of the world accepts that humans do have paranormal abilities in one way or another. Citations in relation to history are so numerous a post containing all of them would be several hundred pages long. What actually lacks any real plausibility is the skeptical point of view.



But of course you have, it is obvious, that if you claim is that you would accept documentation from rigorous scientific investigation then you should have no problem with the data presented in the Radin meta-analysis. That you have made yourself so
clear in relation to that issue, as you have. Makes clear, that you have no intention of acknowledging the mainstream point of view if it accepts Pk ability in humans (which
in fact it has).

To claim that you wish to observe more overt efforts is irrelevant, as if in fact that were the case; you are more than able to do so for yourself. The debate forum is included under “News, Media & World Events," this is a discussion forum so no formalities exist.

Any thoughts?

So tell me Triad what is the point of all this study on pk phenomena?
Is it only to prove it exists?
Or is there something to it other than the findings are very minute!

This phenomena is becoming quite interesting the more i read on it!

I have read that laboratory experiments suggest that PK might violate the conventional laws of physics only in the weak sense in that only the outcome of chance processes is affected whereas the non-statistical laws of physics like the conservation laws for energy, momentum, symmetry, etc. are upheld.

The hypothesis of such a weak violation of conventional physics has great intellectual appeal; and it is a practically fruitful working hypothesis in stimulating new experiments.

If our world were governed by classical physics, with the motion of all atoms ruled by deterministic laws, then an element of randomness, and with it psychic effects, might enter only through the statistical initial conditions. We will not pursue this possibility, however, because, in the real world, quantum effects provide a new source of randomness. In the framework of quantum theory, the weak violation hypothesis can be interpreted in the sense that PK affect only the outcome of the random quantum jumps for which quantum theory makes no unique prediction. Such a hypothesis provides a specific link between PK effects and quantum theory, and leads to rather exotic implications.

I would also like to put this on here just to show some examples of how it can be,
something other than pk making these little experiments seem real to the believers!

1) You can't prove that TK doesn't exist. Very true. It is impossible to prove anything does not exist, it is only possible to prove that an existing thing does exist. How can you prove that I can't fly though the air like Superman?

2) I can move a psi wheel and rotate a straw by TK, without using my hands. My psi wheel also moves when I am nowhere near it, so does my straw, even if my hands are in my pockets. So what?

3) I have looked at your videos where you move the psi wheel and straw, but it's a bit different to the way I do it. Do I have to do it exactly the same way as you? Everybody is going to have some variation on how they do it. I am just demonstrating how I did it, simply to demonstrate that it has nothing to do with TK. Would you need to drop an identical brick to mine in the same way just to demonstrate gravity?

4) I know it's my TK moving the psi wheel. Really, how do you know that? Cover it with a small glass mixing bowl, as shown in my Covered Psi Wheel Video, then try and make it move. I strongly believe, to the point of being certain, that you will find it will not move now. This is because you have prevented air currents from moving it.

5) No, you are wrong, I am just not skilled enough yet to work through glass. You really belief that? Okay, pick a time when your psi wheel is spinning nicely when you are not near it, then leave the house and go look at it through the window. Is it still spinning? Well done! See, you can do it through glass! So nip back inside and cover it with the glass bowl! Now make it move. Oh dear! What excuse do you have now? Also think about how TK is claimed to come from you, from your 'mind', which is your brain. That being the case then TK, whatever it may be, is able to travel through your brain, through your skull, through blood bone and skin tissue, through your scalp, through your hair, then travel through the air, all without any problem at all, and without causing any disturbance to any of these things, it just passes magically right through them. You think a piece of glass or plastic is going to be a problem to this amazing force? Why? The only 'problem' is that the cover stops the air from moving the psi wheel!

6) The only reason I can't do it is because it's just a mind block sort of thing. How very odd. You have just given a brilliant demonstration of your amazing TK ability by leaving the room and keeping the psi wheel spinning from outside the house, and sending your TK through a glass window into the bargain. Sitting next to it when it's covered by glass should be a piece of cake, if you had TK of course. If not then you have clearly demonstrated that it is air currents and not TK moving the psi wheel. If you still think it is 'a mind block thing' then don't bother to try and do any TK, just relax and read a good book or watch a film on the TV. By doing that your 'subconscious' will move it for you! It must be true because the TKers said it was my subconscious moving my psi wheel, not air currents. (I thought that was a bit pathetic to be honest). If it still doesn't work for you after trying very hard and then not trying at all and letting you subconscious do it, I suggest you give up the idea that you have TK, because you have successfully demonstrated that you obviously don't have it.

7) But I can control the movement, so it must be TK. I doubt that very much. Okay, make a purely random decision, say toss a coin, if it comes down heads make the object move anti-clockwise, tails clockwise. Really make it rotate - the way you claim you can - not just a small twitch! Do this as many times as you can and then see how often you got it right. You should score at least half right by pure chance alone. If you get a result that looks like it's showing you are controlling the movement try a comparison. Just toss the coin say 20 times and write down the pattern of heads and tails and see how it compares to your results. However, the important thing is not statistics and probabilities, it is very simply that if it is you doing it then you should always be able to do it, not just sometimes.

8) But I can't do it every day, sometimes it just will not work. That is because the conditions are not right that day, either the air temperature is too warm for the psi wheel or it is not a good day for static for the straw. Why do you think you can't do it?

9) No, it's not that. It is because I am out of practice, I have not done it for a few days. Why should not doing it for a few days make any difference? You 'know' you can do it, it isn't as though you have never succeeded, so it should be easy to just do it again. Also how do you explain that the first time I tried the psi wheel and the straw they both spun first time? I had never practiced. Makes that argument look a bit silly doesn't it?

10) But I concentrate very hard to make things move, it must be my TK. No, you're wrong, you don't really need do anything at all! If your psi wheel is spinning when your hands are nowhere near it pick up a book and have a read, watch the TV, do some emails, it will still be moving just as it was before, providing it's just as draughty.

And to those who can still make the psiwheel move without hands while it is covered with a glass?

I say that proof in my eyes is what would be accepted in a court of law. Note that I never said we must actually be in a court of law, but that does not mean the standards could not be upheld elsewhere. If Kazuma does wish to prove his or her abilities, Kazuma will willingly participate in such a degree of testing or the famous Socratic method of systematic doubt. If Kazuma wishes to prove his or her powers, there are no means to outrageous, at least more outrageous than claims of telekinesis without proof. Once again, claiming you have the abiity but being unable to provide able proof makes the sensible mind conclude that the one claiming to have such ability is instead fighting for attention. The discussion of one's abilities with another is one then, but be aware that Unexplained Mysteries is here for skeptics and believers of all sorts, and this has been reiterated by the White Wizard himself more than once. If you do not wish to be criticized, do not post. There is no more simplistic logic. Learn to live with criticism and grow from it, or learn to shush up and simply don't post.

Criticism without negative or harassing intention is indeed allowed. If it was not UM could not exist, since the Skeptics and Believers will always disagree in some way or another, thus the opinion of one would inherently critique that of the other.

Heat can cause the psiwheel to turn even if it is covered with a glass.
Yes even the heat radiating off of your hands!

And yet I said without hands. In your pockets, behind your back, cut off, whatever.

Well i will say that is very impressive!
But i will still say i do not believe you are telling the truth or maybe you just think you are, moving the psiwheel and are just in denial that something other than your thought is moving it, period!

I will leave it at that.

I will also leave it with a final thought.

Perhaps YOU are the one in denial that these so-called "powers" DO exist, and you're simply scared and/or jealous of them.

The Raven and Silentom.

Gentlemen you may feel you can justify your criticisms but in reality there is no justification. It is a simple situation Kazuma (for the most part at this point we are using his as an example) has expressed that he clearly can apply Pk ability. His statements are not hearsay and the basis of his comments cannot be construed as absurdities (he did not claim the ability to walk on water) It is you (plural) who are asking for proof, Kazuma does not need proof that is apparent, so if you want proof then what in fact would constitute proof??? So far what we have heard from you (again plural) is unrealistic with respect to the means of communication that exist (the internet). No one here is going to shell out thousands of dollars to hire Judge Judy and make (pay for) all the necessary arrangements to make this situation better. As far as Kazuma following in the footsteps of Uri Geller lets face facts and to do that all one has to do is an internet search. The fact the skeptics and believers disagree with each other is irrelevant (there is no need to shout) what in the opinion of skeptics would (given the medium) be acceptable as proof???

There is a term it is called "setting unrealistic goals" it is an aspect of pathological skepticism and to be honest it is apparent in relation to this issue. This is very simple, no one needs a PHD to understand it, and Kazuma is not suggesting he is Darth Vader or that he is from the planet Krypton (sp).

As far as denial Silentom the mere fact that you keep responding proves that it is you sir who are in denial

Any thoughts?

The point being that kazuma can not show proof of his supposed ability on this forum,
is enough evidence to say that everyone has the right to criticize his ability.


You keep responding as well Triad so are you saying you are also in denial

If you cant provide proof for something, then its better to get all philosophical and start questioning "proof" to avert attention instead. Lame...

Once again, Triad, you have done what you do best: blow what I have to say out of proportion in order to support a pathetic thesis that was poorly and atrociously formed in that little head of yours to begin with. Once again, as well, I have never said we must analyze proof in a court of law, simply using the objective practices and guidelines followed in law. If you wish to provide proof and are unsure of these methods, you will go to the lengths to understand them if your case is worth proving or supporting in the first place. If you're going to nitpick and refuse to accept the terms, then there is no need to respond to this post nor a need to continue this hapless battle of bickering, pitting logic and idiocy in a mediocore cage match -- hence your weakness and transient, salient disceptation. Refusal to accept such terms renders your proceeding posts as worthless, and states that you have no ability to walk away because of pride and savage naivety.

To be honest Raven I was not the one shouting and what is being blown out of proportion is any real relevance to your point. Reality is reality and if proof is what you really want, then asking, what to you, would be proof within the confines of this medium is not a question warranting all that bloviation (Bio-Mage included).

This is simple; you guys simply are asking for something and not providing a description of what it is you want. Its like your going to a store, pointing at a wall where there are 100's of things displayed which are clearly identified and saying "I want that," So the store owner says what exactly do you want and again you point to the wall and say "that over there,"

After a while guys it gets silly and it is obvious that you’re just playing games. No issue of philosophy or any other high end intellectual effort just a simple question. I have asked it more than just several times but none of you can give a strait answer, which falls within realistic conditions, given the medium known as the Internet. In fact it seems much more realistic (and obvious) to conclude that your efforts are the result of some sophomoric game whose function is ridicule. Seriously folks precisely how long have the skeptics in this forum insisted upon proof without presenting what would for them, constitute such proof????

Silentom, I am asking a simple and very appropriate question, to which you seem unable to provide a realistic response. The fact you pointed out that you would accept a scientific review of Kazuma's ability, but deny the validity of the Radin Meta Analysis makes clear sir, that you have no intention of acknowledging any effort on Kazuma’s part, to validate his capacity scientifically. How can asking such a question be considered being
in denial?? Denial is a form of bias and which you are expressing, furthermore, you cannot seem to admit that (since you have not) and you were prepared to ridicule Kazuma for Ravens suggestion which also is inappropriate given this medium.

Again, it is a simple question; what to you (all skeptics) would constitute proof or evidence of the phenomenon in question given the inherent restrictions of the internet?????????

Any thoughts?

Maybe someone can actually perform a consistent telekinetic or telepathic feat we can work with. Because random numbers just dont cut it for me.

Anything from the xmen movies will do

I will say this again! I do not feel there is a way that kazuma could possibly show anyone, on this forum his abilities and have them believe it.

You see Triad you have this ability to turn what people say around and use it against them!
I never said that i deny Radin Meta Analysis, I only said it is useless and worthless to me, because i for one do not care for all those random number studies on Pk!

Exactly. I have said this before. Move something with the mind under scientific protocols.

I'll throw the cars and you can blow them up into giant flying fireballs!

Teamwork!

As far as moving objects with the power of the mind using scientific protocols that has already been done, a simple search of the internet will establish that. But of course, as the skeptics in this forum have often made clear, those are not acceptable either so why would a believer consider such a request to be a valid or for that matter, even a sincere offer??



Silentom, the study in question has been acknowledged by a mainstream scientific journal if as you say it is worthless and useless to you, your assessment (your opinion) can be interpreted in relation to that study in the same way.

As far as turning peoples words around and using it against them that is a false accusation what I have done is present a very simple issue, for which, there must be alternative response to engaging in ridicule. As I have made very clear (and by virtue of the lack
of realistic responses in relation to the resident skeptics....i.e..."Anything from the xmen movies will do") what has been established consistently is a pathological pattern of behavior, with respect to skeptical responses in this forum.

Stated simply you and some of the skeptics in this forum are not making any real substantive contribution to discussion here. Seriously it is not like the majority of the
forum is populated by PhD’s interested in conducting scientific research into paranormal ability, with the recourses to effectively present, in this forum, the ability of members here who claim to have paranormal ability. There is also another obvious point, if in fact it was your real intention to investigate paranormal ability, on the scale you have expressed an interest in. Why are you not doing so, in an environment where the possibility of actually being able to observe such activity (first hand) is much, much more plausible, than within the confines (given the inherent restrictions) of an internet discussion forum. My point is obvious Silentom your behavior and the behavior of some of our resident skeptics is clearly not the result of an interest in objectively evaluating paranormal ability (which is what real skeptics do by the way), it is for a lack of a better term, an effort to engage in a bias solely for the purpose of expressing bias for its own sake and that sir is pathological.

Any thoughts?

PS: Bio-mage it sounds like you and Hugo Chaves have something in common

Isn't that the same thing as saying "I don't care because I don't like this type of evidence"? If you don't like the evidence, that's fine and dandy, but do not call this evidence invalid if it is not. You're acting as if it's not. If this is your opinion, please explain why, and if it's not then say so and let's move on.




They'll most likely complain if it's not peer reviewed, and even if the data given is 100% correct, they'll pretend it's wrong and use the excuse "It's not peer reviewed". Then move on and act like no one ever showed evidence to them. I've stated in many places why it doens't make a big difference if it's peer reviewed or not. Alot of people agree with me as well.

When I first came here the issue with the resident pseudo skeptics was observing evidence of the paranormal in a mainstream scientific journal. Since I have posted clear evidence, that in fact, they were incorrect (with respect to the Radin Meta-analysis) this has changed to personal attacks against individual members with respect to personal observations.

In relation to the current behavioral expressions of resident pseudo skeptics angst seems apparent......




They have been proved wrong and all that is left to them is the effort to ridicule members for there individual beliefs.....


Raven states...



In response to this....



Excuse me sir but what you are offering is a bunch of C&^$, whose laws are you suggesting as valid? EU, American, Australian, UN, Hindu, Native American, or perhaps you want to bring up Islamic regulations (or even Chinsee and or Russian)??? You call me a savage and an idiot, but in relation to your bestial response specifics you are not apparent....you want us to prepare a legal effort to resolve this conflict, but beyond, what is cleary presented, you have offered zero in relation to any particular specifics. It is your effort which is hapless, it is your logic which is pitting, and personally I would actually offer money, so as to make it possible for a more intelligent response as what you have to offer. The reason I do not walk away is that, it is so obvious that you sir are so full of S$!^ that a person would have t be an idiot not to notice the reality of the situation.

This being that you sir have lost control and while you feel (personally it is obviously as a result of your bias) that you have made a "point". Cleary the only thing you have done is making a complete A$$ of yourself with respect to anything you it have presented to date.

The only weakness that is apparent is in relation to your lack of ability to respond, the only idiocy is in respect to your lack of ability to present specifics with respect to what it is you are suggesting. What is worthless is in actuality, your last response, as it lacks any content which specifically relates to the content of the query. And for the record, what is weak is your inability, to state in fact is a response to the question at hand.

Quite literally "The Raven" you are the epitome of an "accident waiting to happen" and lets be clear there is no need too wait......what is apparent is that it is happening here and now .

Any thoughts?


PS: “The Raven” my advise is that giving up your day job would be a waste of time.

You are completely right Triad it has been proven to exist and that is great.
But where do all those minute numbers stand against people who want something more,
than just micro pk for results? I suppose you have seen that it is obvious that micro pk is just, not enough to some on here! Have you ever concidered that some would like to see this, phenomena on a larger scale like objects being moved with pk under close studies and be, proved that way?

So on that note i will say good luck with your studies or whatever it is you do and i will be,
on my way!

I agree with you as well. But next time those pseudo-skeptics need to make it a bit more clear on what they mean.

HAHAHAHA Let me guess...is it like psipog.com?



This study only indicates interference and not telekinesis. But you are free same as the "scientists" on that journal to interpret this in any context you see fit.



Who in the blazes is Hugo Chaves?



I have watched you refer to this Pseudo sceptic concept a few times over lately. I am sure its great fun learning new words but unless you have something constructive other than stating how of a true sceptic you think you are and everyone else isn't...then be quiet already.

You can all debate the issue about what proof is and all that but the plain truth is the metaphysical (ironically enough) is all in your head and unless its proven otherwise dont expect people to accomodate your colorfull view of the world. In my book you have NOT ONE individual that can consistently demonstrate any of the abilities you mention, so unless you find someone who can do more than being a pain in the behind for one arm bandits in Las Vegas, dont spam as we have enough of that as it is.

This first link is a collection of PK studies. Many of these are the random number generators many have referred to while some actually involves macro-PK such as spoon bending; take them or leave them. However, I don't think anyone here's trying to argue that PK can be used to move furniture and cars as in the movies.
http://www.williamjames.com/Science/PK.htm

This second link is harder to navigate through. In truth its really a humongous collection of studies that go throughout all branches of parasychology so if you're interested I'd use the "edit-search" button if I were you; I haven't even read it all.
http://www.parapsych.org/pa_convention_abstracts_2002.html

If anyone's interested I could post a page on Nina Kulagina though I'm not going out of my way for it unless asked.

It would be easier to get me to shut up, if you weren't an ass about it. There's no way to argue that telling someone "be quiet" is polite, unless, however, you were trying to be this way. Which is what I expected from you anyway.

And yes, pseudo-skeptic is a term I just realized fit some of the people on these boards perfectly. So instead of calling them "cynic" or just plane "silly", I think the word pseudo-skeptic really stands out more.


I bet if the same type of evidence came about, to prove something YOU claimed, you'd stick by it. But now that it's supporting something else, you don't want to accept it.




Things that aren't real, and are all in your head, produce results like Triad has showed? Wow, thanks for revealing such a thing to me, you've really opened my eyes... not.



Also bio, can you perhaps make a good debate as why these studies are not valid, and aren't evidence of anything, instead of whining like a baby saying you won't accept them?



I do not know if PK is real, I have never looked into it, but what I can see is that bio-mage is going about the situation completely wrong. If he truly wanted to know the [b]truth he'd put up a better debate, but instead he just wants to stick around and complain just so that he won't have to open to the possability of changing his mind on the subject.

I dont want you to "shut up" at all. I only want you to answer directlly on the points I make without the psychoanalysis.



Its not your place to concentrate on pseudo sceptics when there are a number of believers that are going this the wrong way as well. It only shows how passionate you are at remaining one sided.



On the contrary. If you DO search a bit or follow my posts then you will see that I will never shrug research and input from sources that are making a contribution without presumptions. I remain neutral on this subject because I am yet to hear something convincing. If you continue to act as psychic abilities are a undeniable fact, then its you that can not accept the fact that you may be wrong.



Explain to me how this makes you better of what you are accusing me off. You blindly accept this "research" and you have not even once referred to the point about interference I make. Do you even understand this subject? Have you followed on the debate that once took place here on them? My guess is you haven't even bothered to do a little research before allowing Triad to make an impression on you.



I have argued random number generators in the past. Triad keeps posting this every so often in an effort to stuff it down our throats when we are not looking. If you want something to warp your brain around, then have a look on this link but I am not gonna do your homework for you. I will be on another post if you want to discuss, but I am not gonna stay here and watch another psycho bubble rebutal solely focused as to why you think I am not fit to argue.

http://skepdic.com/pear.html



That looks like a whinny reply to me...your argument is again about me...not why I am wrong.

my opinion:
1- Tk may or may not exist
2- if subject say he has the faculty of doing tk it must apply to anything of relevant size & weight.
3- if subject S can push an object A he also has to be able to apply same "force" to a similar object in any direction meaning if S is capable of displacing object A in a given direction with force f he also has to be able to aplying it(f) to an object B of smaller weight
fighting gravity or any other kind of force to say he/she is telekinetic,right ?

4-if TK exist (im not realy skeptic here) the it must require practice just like pedaling a bicycle or driving.

Note:I have many weird experiences i have yet to see or do TK but i do have personal experience in psi among those :telepathy (once confirmed with partner) deja vu(so many times) premonition (real ones!!) out of body experiences(many)
invading/seeing dreams of a friend (or implanting toughts?)

call me weirdo ...

Gee Bio, it's interesting to see that after all the times you have claimed you would not respond to my comments anymore here you are. Let me makes something clear here, the study in question presented in the link at bottom was preformed in 1989 not 1987 and while I am certain Radin did do a study in 1987, it is the 1989 study that is being presented at this forum, in the link included in my signature (that is the one offered as evidence in relation to having been included in a mainstream scientific journal which for the record is Edited by Nobel Laureates). I have never cited psipog.com and for the record until you mentioned it, I did not know it even existed, specifically as cited by me, in earlier comments (in this thread), I was referring to the research done on Uri Geller and the Russian Lady (whose name escapes me at the moment and conducting a search feels tedious given a recent response by The Raven ).

For the record Bio-Mage if you do not like the term Pseudo-skeptics I could take the time to come up with another.....

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...c=63275&hl=

But given the above link, it seems strange you would suggest anything, but the obvious fact, the term exists.....Take into consideration, that given "The Ravens" comments, I would come up with a term ,that fits better . The fact of the matter is nothing, offered by the membership of this forum, has come even close to a reasonable conclusion, to the question at hand. This of course being; what, would to you, would be (specifically), a means, to provide proof, of paranormal ability given, the inherent restrictions of the internet???



Hugo Chaves is the current President of the country of Venezuela, in his rather recent visit to the United Nations (in New York, New York USA), he cited, that conclusively, the current President of the United States (George Bush) is Satan incarnate. My point was that your responses (taking into consideration all your responses to date) are equally as absurd. Given your most recent response in relation to the thread in question.....you sir have nothing to offer this forum.



I would say, that returning to the thread in question and actually presenting something of value, would be prudent; given the confidence you are presenting (in relation to any suggestion) that you have made, any realistic point, against the paranormal would be foolish to take into consideration.

For the record let me present "The Raven's" response....



Bio-Mage your "Mutant Gene Nullifier" is broken; it is time for you to consider another term. Perhaps it should be "I do not know," quite honestly, it would make much more sense.

Any thoughts?

PS: Sorry, have not been at the site for so long (three days) but I needed to take a break such members, as "The Raven", were completely inappropriate.....

I never accepted any research. I'm pretty sure I already stated that I've not even looked into it. But that has nothing to do with what we're talking about, since I've never claimed anything about telekinesis being real or not.



Actually, my entire post was directed at why I thought you were wrong.

Ah I love it.

Love what, lol? The arguements?

So your argument is about the date but not the actual content. Typical of you. Always further from the point....



Well feel free. Its not like it stops you with all the other things you say here. I am sure your doctors recommends venting your frustrations online anyway...



Time and again I suggested to people not to try to provide proof of any kind online. You are not here to convince me as such or any other in this forum. If you believe you have undeniable proof about phychic phenomena then you can request access to a research institute nearest to you. Trust me if any of what you say is possible, then you will not have to do much to facilitate world wide status recognition. It hapens even for false claims all the time and although those do die out eventually as the truth is revealed, yours (if indeed the truth) will justify you better than any half witted argument here.



I think just saying that in your opinion I dont make sense would be shorter and just as irrelevant.



You are yet to prove anything so my status name stands. Wishful thinking will get you nowhere with me...



Actually your entire argument is about me and not about the subject.

Bio it is not just because of the date, you need to check what you are presenting because in actuality, all the numbers your site is claiming are wrong (with respect to the Radin study published at Foundations of Physics Journals in 1989). I was being somewhat sarcastic about Radin doing a Meta analysis in 1987, but hoped, that it would result in you checking your facts. Actually, it does not make sense that you would not notice how different the data (all the numbers) is with respect to the skeptic’s dictionary site and the actual research. Truthfully Bio-Mage, there is no way this study would have made it into Foundations of Physics Journal, if in fact the variance had been that small and the truth is that it is not.

I am comparing you to Hugo Chaves not because of the fact I feel your opinion does not make sense but because it is such a biased opinion. Keep in mind Bio-mage you have not as of yet, presented a legitimate means to present proof, given the restrictions on the internet (medium)? It would make sense that if a person wanted something they would be able to come up with a way to achieve the goal of getting it.



In truth that kind of behavior is typical of you Bio-mage the point at present is my question

Any thoughts?

giggle,pretty funny...

I wonder if that person believe's in air, i mean you cant see it but know how it works etc...i think he was just trying to be humerous though...dont stress to much..

First you say I don't point out why YOU are wrong, then you tell me my entire post was about YOU. O_o

Remember, I was pointing out why you were not evaluating the situation correctly. I commented on how you were being a pesudo-skeptic. I not once commented on wether the subject in question was true or not.

So the subject was YOU.

Doesn't really matter though, I'm done argueing with you. Say what you will.

The article denoted the fallacy of using random number generators in that kind of research. You can either choose to acknowledge that fact, or pretend it doesnt exist or that is wrong (and you are not) so that your beliefs (and only argument) stay intact.

And for the record I need no proof for the world being as we have known it to be up to date. YOU need proof to tell us otherwise...



Playing with words Triad style is weakening your answers with every post. You know very well what I meant since I said you are not sticking to THE SUBJECT. As this forum is not called Bio-Mage Mysteries, you are making a mockery of yourself not being able to provide me with a straight answer on the matter at hand.

You are wrong...I am done with YOU because you have NOTHING to say.

The article presents false data Bio-Mage and then tries to substantiate its false claims as justification for engaging in denial over validity of the process. Seriously Bio-Mage is a person lies to you about another person then discredits the person based upon there lie what is that called???

The correct term is Slander



So all the claims made by the Buddhist, Moslems and Christians about Buddha, Mohamed and Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the world as we know it. Lets see, walking through walls, moving mountains and raising the dead is not believed as having occurred by pretty much 95% of the worlds population?? I am not the one playing words games here Bio-Mage you are and as far as proof; as I made clear, providing proof, is something, that is dependent upon, whom one is providing proof to. So, the question which has been repeated sufficiently is valid, reasonable and within the norm, with respect, to reasonable discourse. It is apparently your desire to be unreasonable as is it obvious that, you are either incapable (or unwilling to admit it), unable (some mental incapacity) or refusing (a pseudo skeptic or an internet troll) to provide a reasonable response.

I myself have taken the first step and this being, providing for a requirement, you yourself introduced to me as significant. This (of course) being, data, regarding paranormal experiences presented in what is acknowledged as a mainstream scientific journal. Foundations of Physics is a Mainstream Scientific Journal whose reputation is beyond reproach and in fact its editing staff contains several Nobel laureates.

So the bottom line here, is there is no way, that this meta-analysis could have not been significant in every respect, your claim that it is not is, for lack of a better term

You may sincerely feel you have a point Bio-Mage but to be honest

Any thoughts?

Dude, what the HELL? I did give you a straight answer! You are asking me to stick to the subject. What subject? The only friggin subject I ever brought up was YOU. Then when I say something true and honest, you tell me I'm playing with words.

What the hell do you want me to give you a straight answer on? I pointed out everything I talked about and why. What more do you want? I've never discussed wether telekinesis was real or not, I simply discussed why I thought you were being pseudo-skeptic.

The reality of the situation is this Bio-Mage, unless you are prepared to provide me with a document which debunks the Radin Meta-Analysis, offered in a Mainstream Scientific Journal, which is equivalent in stature to Foundations of Physics. In that, it also contains
Editors, which are Nobel Laureates (forget Nature, comparing that to Foundations of Physics is like comparing Einstein to a high school physics professor) and are prepared to present there data; in manner consistent with the Radin Meta Analysis (in other words and for example, formatted as a scientific experiment which applied the scientific method) your point is no longer a valid consideration.

Forget the Skeptics Website Bio-Mage as here is an example of there one and only effort to engage in such an attempt......


http://www.planetos.info/marchron.html


More on the Skeptics Dictionary.....

http://www.alternativescience.com/skeptic&..._dictionary.htm

Any thoughts?

What is constant questioning going to do? Questioning someone on the internet that you don't know/can't moniter their actions will do nothing. That will only cause more arguments. No matter what happens you probably aren't going to believe it. Some say to post videos so some of us do. Afterwards many people just say something like it was rigged or computer generated.