Interesting. Can you point me to where in the bible it say this?

Well if he is omnipresent he isn't just in the sky. He's in the trees, he's in the earth, he's you and me.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. Everyone has views.



I believe strictly in the God of the Hebrews. The God of the Hebrews is physical in appearance and there is nothing in the Bible about actual omni-presence. There are
a few verses which reffer to something of that nature, but those are clearly figurative in meaning. Now, I do believe that God has a Spirit and that Spirit inhabits His followers.



I honestly do not know. I do not have enough information about it. If I did, I might consider it. But as far as I know from the scriptures, God's Spirit inhabits his followers, while His physical presence is in space. His coming will by physical in appearance. This will once and for all prove wether He is real or not.

and i saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war rev 19:11

How do you know that the physical isn't figurative for attributes of God?

If I was to ask you to point towards heaven which way would you point..up down left right?

He is coming from the sky, makes war upon mankind, and mankind will reject Him, just as they did 2000 years ago. The Bible describes the Coming in many ways. Wether it be a cloud, a chariot, a barn or a white horse, He is coming in the sky, and this time He's packing some heat. His coming will be so great that it will blot out the one third of the sun.

Because the Bible was not written by a bunch of people who imagined a God, but who saw a God in the sky. I did not say that God was physical in appearance. Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel and Jhon said that. I did not say that God needed a physical presence. God told Moses that. If you over do it, and try too hard to interpret scripture, you will inevitably read inbetween the lines. However, there are no lines to read inbetween in. It is not vauge. It is crystal clear to me. God has many sides, some of which are spiritual, and one of which is physical.

*You* didn't, but you believe in that God, which I quoted. So, do you believe he is physical in appearance literally or not?

I only believe that becuase the scriptures say that. I believe in the scriptures. I have studied the scriptures and so, I feel convinced that I believe the truth. This is my own statment, and my faith of the truth does not require anyone else to agree with me. So, I am not discarding your faith. I just want to know where everyone stands in their faith, and most importantly... why. becuase the pastor told you? The pastor has not seen God for himself. If he did, then he would be prophet like the ones in the scriptures. The difference is that they SAW God. We currently do not. Why? Because His physical presence is not here among us. I believe that the Bible is the product of a visual experience.


Numbers 9:15-23
15 Now on the day that the tabernacle was raised up, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the Testimony; from evening until morning it was above the tabernacle like the appearance of fire.
16 So it was always: the cloud covered it by day, and the appearance of fire by night.
17 Whenever the cloud was taken up from above the tabernacle, after that the children of Israel would journey; and in the place where the cloud settled, there the children of Israel would pitch their tents.
18 At the command of the LORD the children of Israel would journey, and at the command of the LORD they would camp; as long as the cloud stayed above the tabernacle they remained encamped.
19 Even when the cloud continued long, many days above the tabernacle, the children of Israel kept the charge of the LORD and did not journey.
20 So it was, when the cloud was above the tabernacle a few days: according to the command of the LORD they would remain encamped, and according to the command of the LORD they would journey.
21 So it was, when the cloud remained only from evening until morning: when the cloud was taken up in the morning, then they would journey; whether by day or by night, whenever the cloud was taken up, they would journey.
22 Whether it was two days, a month, or a year that the cloud remained above the tabernacle, the children of Israel would remain encamped and not journey; but when it was taken up, they would journey.
23 At the command of the LORD they remained encamped, and at the command of the LORD they journeyed; they kept the charge of the LORD, at the command of the LORD by the hand of Moses.


Ezekiel 1:2-4
2 On the fifth day of the month, which was in the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's captivity,
3 the word of the LORD came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the River Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.
4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
(NKJ)



John 14:9
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
(NKJ)


Genesis 12:7
Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.
(NKJ)



Lev 9:23-24
23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the people,
24 and fire came out from before the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces.
(NKJ) - (btw: here we even see what is described as fire coming down from the sky)



2 Chr 3:1
1 Now Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
(NKJ) (there was a location where the appearance took place)



Exodus 16:10
10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.
(NKJ)

and hundreds more if you need any.

So is that literal belief for you...figurative??? How do you know they weren't being figurative as in God's attributes?
You didn't answer my question.

i could be wrong but when christ supposedly returns isnt he supposed to be the embodiment of god . as a physical human being ...

It's like saying do you like red or blue better, and you say yes.

I did answer your question. The Bible describes the physical attributes of God, and since it associates His appearance with physical attributes, I can only assume that it is literal. Then, of course, there are many eye witnesses who saw God with their physical eyes. Yes, physical eyes. what did you think? spiritual eyes?



That is very interesting that you should say that. See, in the New Testament, Jesus declares Himself to be the Son of God, where He also claimed that He was the same God who brought them out of Egypt. It is the idea of the trinity that makes everything confusing. There is only 1 god-head, His name is Elowah, the same being who became Jesus Chrsit.


John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)


John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

In many other places we see that God Himself became Jesus. There is no "second person" There is God, and there is His Spirit. The Elohym is the plural of Elowah. He is called Father, once mortal, called the Son of God becuase He was a son of man and God. Also since we are all heirs, we are gods as well.


Psalms 82:6
6 I said, "You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.



The easiest way to think about God is this: He is our great, great grand Father. (but He is greater than that) Think of your biological Father. You are his son. you look like him. He had a father too. it all goes back to the god-head. Elowah, the creator.
(NKJ)

Also, the eye witnesses do not say that God lives in the sky just to throw us off. No, He really does dwell in the heavens as the Bible says. When it reffers to the Most High, it literally means... Above. High above the earth.

Tsk, tsk. You of all people should know how Hebrew works. It's not always meant to be taken literally. Eyes in Hebrew is 'ayin, which also means knowledge, amongst other things. So in Genesis when it said that Adam and Eve's *eyes* were opened, it was not literal. It meant that they were enlightened, because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of *Knowledge*. So if it were to say they saw God with their eyes, it could easily mean they *knew* God because they read his word. Do you think a bush was literally burning? Do you think a snake literally ate dust for the rest of his days in the Book of Genesis, Norman? Adam means of the red earth, he was made of dust. Adam in other languages is life blood, blood clot, etc. So the snake was eating flesh and blood for the rest of his days. Which is true. Snakes eat mammals. You can't take everything literally. The bulk of the Bible is poetic. And it's best to get the original Hebrew, which is full of symbolism.

Yes, I do know how hebrew works. Btw: thanks for pointing out the defenitions.
All these clouds, whirlwinds, pillars, vessels, chariots and pavilions are seen hovering in, coming down from or rising into heaven. The thunders, trumpets and voices that are heard are heard from heaven. All the men who leave the ground and all the angels and metallic, glowing beings that come down to the ground do so either to, or from, heaven. All the lightnings, streams of fire, brimstone and other destructive things mentioned have their origin in heaven. Even wars are fought in heaven. Since all these things are seen in relationship to heaven, the way the word ‘heaven’ is used is the key to understanding these phenomenon and must be explained. The word heaven is used over 700 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated almost exclusively from two different words. The Hebrew word 'shamayim' which is defined as ‘the sky', the place where the clouds and stars are, or 'shamayin', the Aramaic word of the same definition.
In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated from other words only five times in the following verses:
Psalms 68:4 it is translated from the Hebrew, arabah, ‘ the desert ‘
77:18 the word is galgal, Hebrew for ‘ wheel or whirlwind '
89:6 & 37 where it is translated from the word shachaq, Hebrew for ‘ powder or thin vapor ’.
Isaiah 5:30 heaven is translated from ariyph, Hebrew for ‘ the sky ‘

The New Testament defines ‘heaven’ from the Greek word ‘ouranos’ meaning ‘the sky’ in all but 7 instances :
Philippians 2:10 Greek epouranos, ‘ above the sky, celestial ‘
Revelation 8:13, 14:6, 19:1, 11, 14, and 17 from the Greek word mesouranema, meaning mid-sky

The infrequency of the word ‘sky‘ in the Bible must also be looked at in the overall study of this concept. The words sky or skies only appear 12 times in all 66 books. The words for things that normally appear in the sky such as clouds, stars, whirlwinds, storms, lightning, birds, rain, hail and wind appear over 600 times. Heaven is the word the translators of the King James Bible in the early 1600's purposefully translated into the original words biblical authors used for the physical sky and not some ethereal plane. The King James Bible was translated for King James of England who lived in a royal castle, surrounded by royal people, all speaking a royal language; a very proper form of court English.The Court English employed entirely different words to describe things, thus,confusing the commoners as to the meaning of certain words. You was thee, raiment was clothing and sky was heaven. Therefore, in all but the above noted instances, the word heaven should be read as sky. Heaven is the sky and sky fits in every instance. Heaven is not the place with the 'pearly gates' or the 'streets of gold ' as the pulpit would have you believe. That is the new Jerusalem and is described in Revelation. Heaven is not said to be a reward for paying your tithes or a final destination for certain church members. Heaven is where God flies, the same place the birds fly. Heaven is where God lives because that is where his throne is and his throne flies. And if any more proof is needed just consider the inheritance of the beatitudes. "The meek shall inherit the Earth", not heaven. The heaven of the pulpit is a simplistic, human conceptualization not a Biblically based reality.

Heaven is the place God lives according to the Bible. If you think that it is figurative, then believe it. It is not a new concept. Oh, btw: you can thank Patrick Cooke, the author of bibleufo.com for the brief description on the King James.

It's funny how now you are talking about heaven, when that wasn't my original question. It was about God being a physical entity. Which you assumed was to be taken literally.
Heaven is where God is thought to reside in the Book of Enoch, which was removed from the Bible. And this also includes angels with a free will. "Lucifer" fell from heaven, although the name is a mistranslation, etc. However, he descended into the bottomless pit, which some call hell. Or a grave in Hebrew. Which again, isn't literal. Because it means you are cut off from God, a spiritual death. And it is the same in the Book of Genesis, when Adam and Eve "die", which is a spiritual death, not a literal one.
Don't take everything literally is all I have to say. The "physical God" (what I was aiming at earlier ) could very well be figurative attributes.

you guys are good nice posts!!

What would you call something that CAN be everywhere at once if they chose, but is not everywhere 24/7? Does that qualify for omnipresent? If so, then God isn't nessesarily me and you.

I guess it wouldn't qualify. I don't know if there is a word for that...what? Quasi-omnipresent?

But then the entire situation is odd. When he chooses to be everywhere, you can call him omnipresent, but then when he chooses to be only one place at a time, or just a few, you can't. O_o

Or in true paradoxical nature, God could be everywhere and nowhere and one specific place, all at once. Why? Because he/she/it is God

GOD is perfect

So he doesnt belong to space and time

He doesnt belong to any laws he has created

I mean, the place he exists in, doesnt have borders and barries.

So, he is higher than to be in everywhere.

Because everywhere (whatever it is) will have borders.

so he doesnt have borders

he created space and time, so he doesnt belong to them


GOD is higher than to be everywhere or in any specific place.

ever thought that:
People see God every day.... They just don't recognize him.
?!!

think about it.

God is in my heart....I know that sounds soppy but it's how I feel...I pray to God every day and even if my prayers don't get answered I don't think he has turned his back on me I wont turn on him...he gave me the most precious thing ever and that was my child.....for that I am truley thankful.

I did not say that God was a physical entity. The Bible says that God is Spirit. I said that He was physical in appearance. Infact, I am not the first one to say that. Time and time again, witnesses claim that God can be seen, and that He lives in the sky.

Job 22:12 "Is not God in the height of heaven? And see the highest stars, how lofty they are!"

2 Chr 30:27 "Then the priests, the Levites, arose and blessed the people, and their voice was heard; and their prayer came up to His holy dwelling place, to heaven."

Jonah 1:9 And he said to them, "I am a Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land."



God's physical appearance is real:






Exodus 24:11
But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.
(NKJ)

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
(NKJ)


Exodus 33:18-23
And he said, "Please, show me Your glory."
Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
But He said, "You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live."
And the LORD said, "Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock.
"So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
"Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen."
(NKJ)

Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."


Judges 13:22-23
And Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!"
But his wife said to him, "If the LORD had desired to kill us, He would not have accepted a burnt offering and a grain offering from our hands, nor would He have shown us all these things, nor would He have told us such things as these at this time."
(NKJ)


Ps 68:17-18
The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them as in Sinai, in the Holy Place.
You have ascended on high, you have led captivity captive; you have received gifts among men, even from the rebellious, that the LORD God might dwell there.
(NKJ)


Physical actions:

Genesis 6:9
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.
(NKJ)



So, then. How can you say that God does not have a physical appearance, when we are made in His image? How can you say that He defies space when He has a location?


How can I say that He is physical in appearance and that He indeed has physical attributes? Becuase it is in the scriptures, and as I've said before, I believe in the scriptures, not the pulpit. It is a human conceptualization that God is a vauge etheral being up there somewhere, or nowhere, but everywhere. It is in the scriptures, that His Spirit is among us, yes, but do you limit God by saying that He is only spirit? Is that all He is? We have a spirit, but we also have a body and a mind. How can you demean God by saying that He does not have a physical presence? We are made in His image. We look like Him. He has looks and physical attributes. It is not so hard to understand. It is in the Bible, and the Bible says that God's spirit is among us, but His physical presence is far from us. Once His physical presence arrives, you will not question this reality.

That was totally uncalled for. You are really showing your intelligence my dear boy.

Even in light of all the evidence I put forth, I can honestly admit that I do not know for sure, if God is omni-present. From what I know, His Spirit is everywhere, which could mean that apart of His being is everywhere. However, I must once again put emphasis on my claims; that God has a physical appearance and a location. His location is space.

Would it be safer to say he is where ever you want him to be?

But you will get the idiots that say - oh well if he is everywhere that must mean he is spying on me and being a perv ........... trust me I have seen this on the boards before

I would't be a bit surprised.

Yea but those that say stuff like that are usually the kids/teenies (ok not all teens before i have one on my back going ...hey im a teen yadda yadaa)

There are actually a lot of teens on the forum that take on the image of a 30 year old in hopes to seem more intelligent. There is a lot of people I have met on here that admited to it.

Yea thats why I said not all teens

Zero Zero Zero, You truly have no idea how uncouth you can be at times, you are telling us about you not anyone else. Namaste sheri

*graps beckys diaper and smacks Zero* that'll teach ya some manners boy

Which would make him technically a "physical" entity, not of flesh and blood, but you can physically see him if this was the case.

He's not claiming to see God.

Here they aren't claiming to see God either...

Again, not claiming to see God.

And as I previously stated, eyes in Hebrew is 'ayin, which also means knowledge. And they were nobles, who could know God based on what others have said, or what literature to read.

He just said he would see his back. Does this make God a liar?

But if he walked with God that could easily mean spiritually, nor is he claiming to see God.

Which are not always meant to be taken literally. Where do you draw the line between what's literal and what's metaphorical, Norman?

It never says physical image, this could again, very easily mean in spirit. Because after Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, they died spiritually, and God stopped talking to Adam. That wasn't meant to be taken literally (like literally dying)

You are entitled to your opinion, of course.


You are twisting my quotes. These are two seperate verses reffering to God's visibility.
Jacob saw God face to face, and centuries later, Moses saw God's back.


Again, you are entitled to your opinion. But, of course, a scholar would not make an assumption that God and Noah were "spiritually" walking togather when all it says is "and Noah walked with God." Nothing more to be said.



Here you go again, assuming that it is a "spiritual" image, while it never says that it is.

1 Cor 11:7 "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."

I suppse next, you'll claim that the verse above is reffering to man's "spiritual" head.


Here you were misquoting me. I stated in advance that those scriptures specifically pointed out that God is up in the sky. It was not intended to prove that you can see God because he has a physical appearance. The scriptures I quoted after that were intended to point out God's visibility by a testimonies of a visible, but spiritual entity.


On what theological principle do you claim that in order for God to be visible, He must have fleash and blood?

Psalms 82:6-8 "I said, "You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
Arise, O God, judge the earth; for You shall inherit all nations."
(NKJ)

We are children of God. We look like our Father in Heaven.

Right, I accidentally lumped them together.

Which scholar would that be? Everyone interprets the Bible differently.

And it never says it's a physical one either

No, I never said everything was figurative. Also, you didn't answer my question as to where you draw the line between what is literal and what is metaphorical.

I'm not misquoting you

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was that God was not physical (and this excludes Jesus because he is God incarnate). I think God is Spirit, which is not flesh and blood.

Many of you never replied to my "Trinity" thread when I posted information twice but you still call Jesus God incarnate. O_o... [Not saying Yele is one].

Jesus is the son of God...unless I'm mistaken

"All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. "
-John 1:3
Well there it says that Jesus created all things; God created all things.

The Scriptures are a collection of accounts of supernatural phenomena occuring in ancient history. The testimonies in the text are written in their ancient language. It is literal and not figurative. It may be metaphorical in the case of PPP, (proverbs, parables and prophecy), but in all the other cases, it is important that one should read the Bible as a literal historic account of witnesses who testify to seeing, feeling, or having some interaction with God.



I agree. That Bible says that God is Spirit. You are correct. However, how do you conclude that God is invisible when throughout the Bible people witnesses God with their eyes? I am not denying that God is spirit. Again, I was not the one to first claim that God was physical in appearance. Moses, Daniel, and Jhon said that. If you have a problem with this, then talk to the one who inspired the scriptures I reffer to.

And to stay on track with the forum subject, Yes, God has a location, and that is the Sky or Space.

Norman..you may believe that God is in the sky or up in space, but how do you know he is not beyond that? God is where you want him to be...IMO of course

Yes, God can be wherever and whatever, but that is because that god is't real. The God of the Bible lives in the sky. But the God who lives wherever you want him to live, lives inside of your mind. If I were to take on the metaphorical viewpoint right now, I'd say that you were breaking the 2nd commandment. You have made your own god. A god that is't real. A god in your mind, a god which appeals to you. Well, hate to break it to everyone, but you either believe in the God of the Bible, or you believe in the god who is made after your own likeness and wishes.

And you should know that Hebrew is very symbolic. I discussed that earlier with Adam, adama-red earth. He is made of dust, he will return to dust, dust is his flesh. Aw-Dawm is life blood, flesh, the Sumerians used it to mean blood clot. For the snake to eat dust is *not* literal dust, it is flesh, flesh of mammals.

I never said God was invisible. What I was trying to ask you, was why don't you think something like a burning bush wasn't figurative for God's glory, for example. I don't think all of it is meant to be literal. Like the Beasts in Revelation. For there to be a leopard, it was an Empire of speed, because leopards are quick. They were alluding to Greece, Persia, etc.

The God of the Bible lives in the sky. If you do not believe that, then you do not believe in the God of the Bible. If you do not believe that the God of the Bible lives in the sky, then you do not know scripture, because scripture says that God lives in the sky.

He exists to me, I cannot describe it, I don't follow the bible I do as i wish and what I chose it to believe he exists...ok granted I have no proof, but I am not the doubting Thomas if I don't see him that doesn't mean I must not believe, but if you believe he doen't exsist then so be it I respect that

Yelekiah, I agree with all that, but when it comes down to God's dwelling place, it is the sky, and that is meant literally. Beckys_Mom, I respect your beliefs, but honestly, if you read the Bible - the very text you claim to believe in, then you would not deny it's truths. I know that faith does not require on to see God. I believe there is a God even though I do not see Him. However, my belief is that God can be seen, and that we will all see Him when He comes back in the sky.