WASHINGTON - The city of San Diego won a Supreme Court stay on Friday that blocks the removal of a large cross from city property.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy said the temporary stay he authorized earlier this week should protect the cross until the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals hears arguments this fall in a long-running dispute over the cross.

Kennedy also took the unusual step of explaining his decision, in a four page opinion, and suggested that he and his colleagues may be interested in a broader review of the case.1

"The equities here support preserving the status quo while the city's appeal proceeds," he wrote. "Compared to the irreparable harm of altering the memorial and removing the cross, the harm in a brief delay pending the Court of Appeals' expedited consideration of the case seems slight."

A lower court judge had ordered the city of San Diego to remove the cross or be fined $5,000 a day. The judge ruled that the cross, a symbol of Christianity, was an unconstitutional endorsement of one religion over another.

The 29-foot cross, on a half-acre site atop Mount Soledad in the La Jolla area, had been contested in 1989 by Philip Paulson, a Vietnam veteran and atheist.

The Supreme Court refused three years ago to get involved in the dispute. Since then, Congress agreed to make the area a national veterans memorial, and San Diego residents voted to transfer the land to the federal government.

Kennedy, a California native, said, "Congress' evident desire to preserve the memorial makes it substantially more likely" the high court would agree to hear the case now.
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This is clearly UnAmerican. These Christians are using some of the same ideas the Nazis did by forcing their believes onto others. TAKE DOWN THE FILTHY CROSS!!!

*fixed link

San Diego?!
This destroys one of my most beloved stereotypes about southern california.
im devestated.

People of all religions--and none--have died for this country. Come up with a symbol that honors them all.

Take down that ridiculous cross.

Kratos...the link doesn't work...but I copied and pasted the first few lines of the post, on to Google..and it brings up the page from where you got this news from...


Sean..I agree with you

[attachmentid=26748]


It is kind of an ugly cross. The thing has been there since 1954. It should be replaced with something more appropriate. If it was a artfully made cross I would say people are attached to so leave it, but it is not. It could be moved to a church ground were it could be maintained and those who like could still visit it.

By all means move the "OFFENDING" Symbol. Though good manners should prevail over calling it a "Filthy Cross".

roger that LOL

He may have opened a can of worms....This could be used to justify the continued display of Confederate emblems and monuments on the various municiple and state properties throughout the old South!

The American Flag?



Good manners would be Christians respecting the American way. Christians have done more harm to mankind then good, and they directly affect me almost daily. Hell, already today I was told that swearing is a sin.



The Confederate emblems and it all can already be legally displayed as it is history and not religion.

the thing is kinda ugly. from its proportions, one could almost call it a big boxy sword.

i'll have a good laugh if later some higher court says the cross can stay.

i'm also wondering, would godwin's law apply here?

While it is not illegal to dispaly these emblems, several states have had to redesign their flags, many courthouses have had to remove their Confederate memorials, etc - why? Because of civil suits by minorities stating that these items are reminders of oppression to them. The aforementioned decision leaves an opening for the "more rabid" southern to contest these suits! It doesn't take illegality or religion for the majority to lose their percieved rights!

Now that Dodge makes Chargers again, the old dixie banner will be showing up more often. Help! I'm surrounded by hicks!!

So are you saying there are no such things as Americian Christians?...not being sarcastic...but wondering is all cuz you say....christians should respect the american way...OR could you mean that Christians should respect the athiest/NB's way?? Because the american christians are just as proud of their country as the next guy!!!!!

I firmly feel those minorities, that believe that, are idiots that should be shot on sight. They should first learn to respect history, freedom of expression and the rights of others.



The American way, yes I mean that. America's founding father's left out religion in government for good reason. They knew for sure religion is a problem when mixed into government. Why we have seperation between Church and State. The American way is no religion in the government.

Ohh ok...thanks..I didn't understand...well I aint americain LOL so thats why I had to ask

Kratos you should really take a class in anger management. Your going to get your self in trouble.

You could apply freedom of expression and the rights of others to that cross. You could say the christians have to right to express their faith and is their right to have the cross.

My two cents on the matter:
I am amazed. Taking a case to the Supreme Court because somebody says "Hey! There's a cross here. How they dare forcing religion on society?!! AAARGH!!" ?
...
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True...the freedom of their faith...something tells me the only ones annoyed are those that dont believe in God that live there

For speaking my mind?

Not on public properly. On their own private properly they have that right.

The stars and bars isn't religion. The cross is.

Yea I can imagine it...YO can you hear me...I said there's a cross here..and it's a biggin...me and my buds like to stand there and drink...and that darn cross makes us feel guilty...take it down Im so offended aaaaccccckkkkk

Hey, that sounds like you and the bible! Seriously though, why are you even criticizing Kratos if you're guilty of the same thing?

I vote against hypocricy, as it's foundation is nothing more than an endless cycle of empty meaningless words.

Now, for Kratos:

While BM wouldn't hold to her own in this case, I have to admit she's got a point, why be offended by a religious symbol? People have freedom of speech and the right to express themself, that too is in the American Consititution, I'm not sure what type of affect it would have on people but it probably would go unnoticed if people just ignored it due to the fact they may find it offensive or don't approve of it.

Another question, why do people think that the world is ruled by Christians? Are you all bloody mad? It's when people put that stuff into their heads then people became enraged at Christianity for what? Since when was religion ever perfect, is the world perfect, are you perfect? If not why critcize something that is imperfect, just like I said I vote against hypocricy, the idea of blaming Christians for everything wrong is rather moronic and crosses the boundaries of logic, kind of funny as this all adds up to one thing: Christianity, being one of the fastest decreasing religions in the world, is also looked upon as false, more than any other religion in the world, and you say they are trying to take over the world? Pitiful.

Next time, you all should take a good look at the Jews, ever noticed how they own some of the biggest corporations and money stocks? With wealth comes power, think people!

I'm missing what is so Un american about freedom of religious expression.. It sounds as if the athiest man wants an Athiest world how is that any different....Of the few things that america ( as i'm Not overly impressed with America) is sort of kool on being able to beleive how you want at least some of us try to allow people to be who they are.....

Okay, PLEASE stop with the BM bashing. You seem to work that into every post.

I too am against hypocracy, though I can see where people would get disgusted IF the cross was displayed everywhere, glaring people in the face.

Yes, yes, separation of Church and State, and I believe there could be a better way to symbolize everyone. Maybe we could use the flag or something of the sort, just for the sake of everyone being happy.

I would feel a lot better about it if it were a more beautiful cross, too.

Not everyone thinks that Christians rule the world, but it gets attacked a lot because it is a major religion that is big on spreading the word.

Please show me where Jewish investers have those stocks and big corporations, or I'll just assume that it's stereotype dating back to the Jewish moneylenders.

wow, a cross big deal who cares. i mean seriously wow a different religion wooo!!! scary!!!
no offence to any athiests on here, but it seems to me only your kind speaks up against stuff like this. just like the one who said they should take "under god" out of the pledge of alliegence. i mean seriously who cares, just because its there doesnt mean they are trying to force you to believe in it. jeeze people like this make me mad.

You know it seems you state yourself in a position of just behaviors, but by the look of your sig and examining your little forum it would seem like a breeding ground for hypocricy, so it's okay for BM and her friends to make a "flaming" website and advertise it on this site but it's not okay for someone who opposes such to do the same?

Hmmm.....very interesting.

Not religion on public properly. On private property they can. Seperation between Church and State! That is what our founding fathers designed to keep out religion from the government.



Seperation of Church and State. No religion in the government.

Good point Kratos, he does have a point.

Present this proof of the flaming website...and when I say proof...I mean show evidence of any posts that are flaming or threads for that matter...i'll think you will find they arent much differnt than here...ohh and btw bolty...the more you flame my site...lil do you know you are actually advertizing...LMAO...you are advertizing for ME...because of your silly evil rants...more and more have joined RAW..so keep it up Bolt...cuz thats what I want...you'll make others curious..and they will check it out...and then join...so ta ta Bolt

What goes around comes around...I pray it comes around to you...and you will get what comes to you

there is not a wall of seperation between church and state in the US. what there is supposed to be is neutrality between religions and between religion and nonreligion.

There is no neutrality on this. Public propertly should, on legal grounds, have no religion displayed as such. That cross does not belong there and it is against American values on what this country was founded on.

I sometimes wonder about some of those Confederate symbols:

The white stars on a blue cross of saint andrew on a red field was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. It was not the Confederate flag. There were three Confederate flags: the Bonny Blue Flag, the Stars and Bars and a white flag with a cross of saint andrew in a canton; it was the last one - I guess they were getting ready to surrender and wanted to have a white flag handy.

The flag that South Carolina flew over its capital until a couple years ago was the VIRGINIA battle flag. Don't these guys read their own state history? Some SC legislators said they were honoring their heritage - in that case, they should fly Old Glory - over 7000 South Carolina citizens fought for the Union - nearly half of SC's Civil War soldiers.


Back to the cross: it seems a better way to honor the country's war dead could be found. A cross is a denial of the freedom of religion for which many non-Christians fought.

I do not find a cross on the skyline any more attractive than any other billboard, flashing sign or other advertizing gimic: they're all ugly.

--DJS

When I walk down the street and see a poster on the side of a wall:

ADULT ESCORT SERVICE - FOR A GOOD NIGHT, OR JUST A GOOD TIME, PHONE ****** TO MEET OUR QUALITY GIRLS

Do I go and petition the government to take it down? It is symptomatic of anti-Christian dogma, and offends me as a person that people can objectify women to such an extent.

The concept here is no different than having a cross sitting on public property. Just because a cross is there is not to say it's pushing religion on to you, and I think a poster advertising rent-women is actually more counter-productive to society than a piece of landscape.

Regards, PA

That business isn't religion, therefore it is free speech.

Religion on the other hand, In America, isn't to be in government, tax payers areas as such. Our founding fathers knew the horrors and problems religion in government would cause.

Well, let's just look at this once. Last time America had religion in it's government - PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY BURNED ALIVE AT THE STAKE!!!

It's the American way.

When it comes right down to it, religion is also a business. They have all the hallmarks - CEO's (pope, or archbishop for other denominations), underlings, workers, shareholders. They pay their staff, they have clerical needs, they pay bills, rates, electricity. They have business numbers. Everything points to it being a business also. It seems that if freedom of speech applies to those who wish to rubbish and go against religion, then it should apply to those who support it also.

And yet they say they are a religion.

You say you are offended by the sign for sex but aren't offended by a display of a roman torture device where people were forced to suffer and die.

Freedom of speech is more then fine as long as you aren't using my tax dollars or public propertly to push your religion into the viewing area.

Again, the founding fathers left out religion for a good reason. Religion in government always ends up badly because religion is in fact quite stupid in laws/rules and it hurts the freedoms of others that do not follow that religion.

Blimey thats rough...maybe its good religion is not part of the goverment

You know what I'm talking about, and you don't need to get cute or smart about it either.