After looking at the Magical Egypt documentary series on the other thread, it led my to wonder about somthing they didnt really go into.. the SPHINX.
My question is.. Who built it, why and when?
I'm trying to find a timeline here, for who may have been around before the Old Kingdom in Egypt.. if the Sphinx was indeed built at that time. It's puzzling me.
If the Sphinx was built 12,000 BC, that means that in only 88,000 years (from the 100,000 year date for Homosapiens), we went from basic Homosapien to constellation-worshipping monument builders during an ice age, which is highly unlikely. Leo doesn't even look like a Lion to me!
Is it more likely they worked the weathered stone, now in a desert region into a Sphinx shape before the Egyptian New Kingdom era. I think YES.
Some background from Wikipedia:
The face of the Great Sphinx is believed to be the head of the pharaoh Khafra (often known by the Hellenized, transformed by the Greeks, version of his name, Chephren), which would date its construction to the Fourth Dynasty 2723–2563BC.
However, there are some alternative theories that re-date the Sphinx to pre-Old Kingdom (before 2770-2200BC) and according to one hypothesis, to prehistoric times (12,000BC).
Some recent news:
Interestingly, a recent discovery in Bolivia (South America), a settlement with Egyptian style workmanship (very accurate, neat stone blocks with cast metal staples, and points for solstices). The astrological alignment of the solstices would place the settlement at 12,000BC also, so that goes for the Sphinx theory in 12,000BC.
Is it possible our timeline is wrong and the Sphinx was worked in 12,000BC?
The timeline i am looking at says around 10,000-6,000BC there was a shift from the 'Hunter/Gatherer' attitude to 'Food Producer' in some areas.. West Asia initially, and Egypt by 6,000BC. Somewhere after this, the Lion become a dipiction for a Sphinx.
The Sumerians seemed to appear around 5000BC and lasted until 2000BC, when they ended. The Sumerians had some weird cultural deities. Sumerian wheel-made pottery appeared around 3400BC. So.. did they make it, coming from the Iraq area to do so?
The first Hieroglyphics in Egypt came around 3100, well before the Old Kingdom (2770-2200BC), but hieroglyphs do not appear on the Sphinx as far as i'm aware, which is odd as well, as most Egyptian New kingdom architecture has them. So that would date it Old-Kingdom or older.
The Egyptians seem to pre-date the Greek Minoans by 770 years also, who appeared over 500 years from 2000-1500BC when they were wiped out. So where did the Sphinx effigy originally come from.. Greek Mythology?
Some more background from Wikipedia:
What names ancient Egyptians called the Sphinx statues is unknown. The Arabic name of the Great Sphinx, Abu al-Hôl, translates as "Father of Terror".
There was a single Sphinx in Greek mythology, a unique demon of destruction and bad luck, according to Hesiod, a daughter of the Chimera and Orthrus, or, according to others, of Typhon and Echidna - all of these chthonic figures.
She was represented in vase-painting and bas-reliefs most often seated upright rather than recumbent, as a winged-lion with a woman's head; or she was a woman with the paws, claws and breasts of a lion, a serpent's tail and birdlike wings.
Hera or Ares sent the Sphinx from her Ethiopian homeland (for the Greeks remembered the Sphinx's foreign origins) to sit outside Thebes (Karnak) and ask all passersby history's most famous riddle: "Which creature in the morning goes on four feet, at noon on two, and in the evening upon three?" She strangled anyone unable to answer.
The word "sphinx" comes from the Greek 'Σφινξ' or 'Sphinx', apparently from the verb 'σφινγω' or 'sphingo', meaning 'to strangle'.
Oedipus solved the riddle: MAN – he crawls on all fours as a baby, then walks on two feet as an adult, and walks with a cane in old age.
Bested at last, the Sphinx then threw herself from her high rock and died. Other versions tell that she devoured herself. In fact, the exact riddle asked by the Sphinx was not specified by early tellers of the story and was not standardized as the one given above until much later in Greek history.
MY CONCLUSION
I think that, is it possible that the rock that the Sphinx was made from, was already weathered when whoever came long to depict the Lion's body and a pharoahs head.. meaning the 12,000BC is right, but the actual working of the rock was more like original predictions?
But that does not resolve who made it, or why.
Anyone have any theories on this one?
Full Version: Origins of the SPHINX..
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
QUOTE
My question is.. Who built it, why and when?
The Egyptian God Thoth built it and buried an ancient artifact of great power underneath it. Why other than covering his artifact up I am not so sure and as for when...well it had to have been no sooner than 10,500 BC and all the evidence points to it. Thoth is also the being who taught the Egyptians practically everything they know which also explains every single mystery related to Egypt. The legends of Egypt itself tell of this.
http://www.crystalinks.com/thoth.html
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/secret_teach...rismegistus.htm
He was/is NOT make believe. The Egyptian scribes worshipped Thoth who according to them taught them practically everything they know. With Egyptians own admission of this and the fact that Egyptians possessed knowledge far beyond our own today the next logical step must be taken. And this step is to realize that Thoth was not in their imagination and was and still is infact, a real living God.
People claim they respect Egyptians by saying they learned all of the amazing things they learned but in reality they are greatly disrespecting the ancient Egyptians because they deny the very things the Egyptians claim. And they claim Thoth and the other Gods taught them literally every single thing they knew. So they deny ancient Egyptians of their own beliefs just as they do when they say the Mayans learned everything on their own when the Mayans themselves say the Gods taught them and they even call the great city of pyramids, Teotihuacan aka the City of the Gods. They say these things for a reason and the reason is most likely because IT IS COMPLETELY TRUE.
http://www.crystalinks.com/emeraldprefacebw.html
QUOTE
The history of the tablets translated in the following pages is strange and beyond the belief of modern scientists. Their antiquity is stupendous, dating back some 36,000 years B.C. The writer is Thoth, an Atlantean Priest-King, who founded a colony in ancient Egypt after the sinking of the mother country.
He was the builder of the Great Pyramid of Giza, erroneously attributed to Cheops. In it he incorporated his knowledge of the ancient wisdom and also securely secreted records and instruments of ancient Atlantis.
For some 16,000 years, he ruled the ancient race of Egypt, from approximately 52,000 B.C. to 36,000 B.C. At that time, the ancient barbarous race among which he and his followers had settled had been raised to a high degree of civilization.
Thoth was an immortal, that is, he had conquered death, passing only when he willed and even then not through death. His vast wisdom made him ruler over the various Atlantean colonies, including the ones in South and Central America.
When the time came for him to leave Egypt, he erected the Great Pyramid over the entrance to the Great Halls of Amenti, placed in it his records, and appointed guards for his secrets from among the highest of his people.
In later times, the descendants of these guards became the pyramid priests, by which Thoth was deified as the God of Wisdom, The Recorder, by those in the age of darkness which followed his passing. In legend, the Halls of Amenti became the underworld, the Halls of the gods, where the soul passed after death for judgment.
He was the builder of the Great Pyramid of Giza, erroneously attributed to Cheops. In it he incorporated his knowledge of the ancient wisdom and also securely secreted records and instruments of ancient Atlantis.
For some 16,000 years, he ruled the ancient race of Egypt, from approximately 52,000 B.C. to 36,000 B.C. At that time, the ancient barbarous race among which he and his followers had settled had been raised to a high degree of civilization.
Thoth was an immortal, that is, he had conquered death, passing only when he willed and even then not through death. His vast wisdom made him ruler over the various Atlantean colonies, including the ones in South and Central America.
When the time came for him to leave Egypt, he erected the Great Pyramid over the entrance to the Great Halls of Amenti, placed in it his records, and appointed guards for his secrets from among the highest of his people.
In later times, the descendants of these guards became the pyramid priests, by which Thoth was deified as the God of Wisdom, The Recorder, by those in the age of darkness which followed his passing. In legend, the Halls of Amenti became the underworld, the Halls of the gods, where the soul passed after death for judgment.
The Egyptians built it...
That is the correct date
QUOTE
The face of the Great Sphinx is believed to be the head of the pharaoh Khafra (often known by the Hellenized, transformed by the Greeks, version of his name, Chephren), which would date its construction to the Fourth Dynasty 2723–2563BC
That is the correct date
QUOTE(cerberus @ Jul 15 2006, 12:28 PM) [snapback]1271259[/snapback]
After looking at the Magical Egypt documentary series on the other thread, it led my to wonder about somthing they didnt really go into.. the SPHINX.
My question is.. Who built it, why and when?
I'm trying to find a timeline here, for who may have been around before the Old Kingdom in Egypt.. if the Sphinx was indeed built at that time. It's puzzling me.
If the Sphinx was built 12,000 BC, that means that in only 88,000 years (from the 100,000 year date for Homosapiens), we went from basic Homosapien to constellation-worshipping monument builders during an ice age, which is highly unlikely. Leo doesn't even look like a Lion to me!
Is it more likely they worked the weathered stone, now in a desert region into a Sphinx shape before the Egyptian New Kingdom era. I think YES.
Some background from Wikipedia:
The face of the Great Sphinx is believed to be the head of the pharaoh Khafra (often known by the Hellenized, transformed by the Greeks, version of his name, Chephren), which would date its construction to the Fourth Dynasty 2723–2563BC.
However, there are some alternative theories that re-date the Sphinx to pre-Old Kingdom (before 2770-2200BC) and according to one hypothesis, to prehistoric times (12,000BC).
Some recent news:
Interestingly, a recent discovery in Bolivia (South America), a settlement with Egyptian style workmanship (very accurate, neat stone blocks with cast metal staples, and points for solstices). The astrological alignment of the solstices would place the settlement at 12,000BC also, so that goes for the Sphinx theory in 12,000BC.
Is it possible our timeline is wrong and the Sphinx was worked in 12,000BC?
The timeline i am looking at says around 10,000-6,000BC there was a shift from the 'Hunter/Gatherer' attitude to 'Food Producer' in some areas.. West Asia initially, and Egypt by 6,000BC. Somewhere after this, the Lion become a dipiction for a Sphinx.
The Sumerians seemed to appear around 5000BC and lasted until 2000BC, when they ended. The Sumerians had some weird cultural deities. Sumerian wheel-made pottery appeared around 3400BC. So.. did they make it, coming from the Iraq area to do so?
The first Hieroglyphics in Egypt came around 3100, well before the Old Kingdom (2770-2200BC), but hieroglyphs do not appear on the Sphinx as far as i'm aware, which is odd as well, as most Egyptian New kingdom architecture has them. So that would date it Old-Kingdom or older.
The Egyptians seem to pre-date the Greek Minoans by 770 years also, who appeared over 500 years from 2000-1500BC when they were wiped out. So where did the Sphinx effigy originally come from.. Greek Mythology?
Some more background from Wikipedia:
What names ancient Egyptians called the Sphinx statues is unknown. The Arabic name of the Great Sphinx, Abu al-Hôl, translates as "Father of Terror".
There was a single Sphinx in Greek mythology, a unique demon of destruction and bad luck, according to Hesiod, a daughter of the Chimera and Orthrus, or, according to others, of Typhon and Echidna - all of these chthonic figures.
She was represented in vase-painting and bas-reliefs most often seated upright rather than recumbent, as a winged-lion with a woman's head; or she was a woman with the paws, claws and breasts of a lion, a serpent's tail and birdlike wings.
Hera or Ares sent the Sphinx from her Ethiopian homeland (for the Greeks remembered the Sphinx's foreign origins) to sit outside Thebes (Karnak) and ask all passersby history's most famous riddle: "Which creature in the morning goes on four feet, at noon on two, and in the evening upon three?" She strangled anyone unable to answer.
The word "sphinx" comes from the Greek 'Σφινξ' or 'Sphinx', apparently from the verb 'σφινγω' or 'sphingo', meaning 'to strangle'.
Oedipus solved the riddle: MAN – he crawls on all fours as a baby, then walks on two feet as an adult, and walks with a cane in old age.
Bested at last, the Sphinx then threw herself from her high rock and died. Other versions tell that she devoured herself. In fact, the exact riddle asked by the Sphinx was not specified by early tellers of the story and was not standardized as the one given above until much later in Greek history.
MY CONCLUSION
I think that, is it possible that the rock that the Sphinx was made from, was already weathered when whoever came long to depict the Lion's body and a pharoahs head.. meaning the 12,000BC is right, but the actual working of the rock was more like original predictions?
But that does not resolve who made it, or why.
Anyone have any theories on this one?
I'M HAVING TROUBLE WITH MY KEYBOARD!!
OH WELL..........I HAD READ SOMEWHERE THAT IT'S BELIEVED THAT THE FACE CURRENTLY ON THE SPHINX IS NOT ORIGINAL. BEFORE ANYONE CAN TAKE A JAB AT REASONING THE THING OUT, WOULDN'T WE NEED TO BE SURE WHO'S FACE IT IS?? IT WOULD DEFINITLY GIVE US SOME STRONG CLUES TO IDENTIFY WITH. ONE THING, WE DON'T HAVE ANY RECORDS OF ANYONE DATING BACK 12,000 YEARS........OR DO WE??? I'VE OFTEN WONDERED IF THE STORIES ABOUT THE IRAQI'S ANCIENT TEXTS WOULD OPEN SO MANY DOORS TO HISTORY THAT..........
Duki
i heard about tunnels under the sphynx but nothing special...and also..it may have been carved on a big stone which dated back to 12000 bc and was shaped during the 3000-2000 bc. if only those fricken noses on the egyptian monuments were much harder..maybe we could figure something out lol....if the sphynx was flat nosed...then it would have been modeled by an asian 
hahaha
hahaha
After talking to a JW i know last night about this, i thought of something.
The date of the Sphinx is accepted as Old Kingdom at 2723–2563BC, but unusually the JW belief puts the date of the great deluge very near that date (2750BC), which means if the deluge did occur at that time, the Sphinx would have been under water at some stage..
Do any of the older Pyramids have signs of water erosion?
The date of the Sphinx is accepted as Old Kingdom at 2723–2563BC, but unusually the JW belief puts the date of the great deluge very near that date (2750BC), which means if the deluge did occur at that time, the Sphinx would have been under water at some stage..
Do any of the older Pyramids have signs of water erosion?
Here we go again! Is there not already a thread about this? 
How the Sphinx was carved is not a great mystery in itself. It is a free standing statue in one sense, though it ws not carved and then placed in position. The Sphinx was chisled from living rock, a stony outcrop protruding from the limestone plateau. By the digging of a huge, rectangular trench around it, this outcrop was enlarged into raw material for the Sphinx's body. It was then sculpted into the image of a lion with a man's head.
According to modern Egyptologists, the Sphinx was made aroun 2500 B.C. on the orders of Pharaoh Khafre of the Fourth Dynasty. The same Pharaoh built, and was buried in, the second largest of the three Great Pyramids at Giza. The Sphinx was a statue of the god Harmachis (god of the rising son), and , as Pharaoh was considered to be a god manifest on Earth, it's sculptors modeled it's face on that of the Pharaoh himself. The resemblance of the Sphinx's face to Khafre's confirms that he built the monument.
How did the Sphinx become associated with Khafre in the first place? Excavation between the huge paws of the Sphinx uncovered a chapel containing dozens of inscribed stelae placed there by the Pharaohs to honor Harmachis, the Spinx god. According to one of the stelae, Thutmose IV (c. 1415 B.C.) was having an after-dinner nap when Harmachis appeared to him and promised to bestow upon him the crown of Egypt if he would dig the Sphinx out of the sand. At the end of the inscription part of Khafre's name appears in broken context where the words "the image made for Atum-Harmakhis" also appear. There is no concrete evidence that Khafre built the Sphinx.
Also, an inscription found in a temple near the Great Pyramid of Khufu states that this Pharaoh carried out repairs to the Sphinx's tail and headdress. As Khufu was Khafre's older brother and predessor, the logical conclusion is that the Sphinx had already existed long BEFORE the time of Khafre.
SOURCE: ANCIENT MYSTERIES BY PETER JAMES AND NICK THORPE
How the Sphinx was carved is not a great mystery in itself. It is a free standing statue in one sense, though it ws not carved and then placed in position. The Sphinx was chisled from living rock, a stony outcrop protruding from the limestone plateau. By the digging of a huge, rectangular trench around it, this outcrop was enlarged into raw material for the Sphinx's body. It was then sculpted into the image of a lion with a man's head.
According to modern Egyptologists, the Sphinx was made aroun 2500 B.C. on the orders of Pharaoh Khafre of the Fourth Dynasty. The same Pharaoh built, and was buried in, the second largest of the three Great Pyramids at Giza. The Sphinx was a statue of the god Harmachis (god of the rising son), and , as Pharaoh was considered to be a god manifest on Earth, it's sculptors modeled it's face on that of the Pharaoh himself. The resemblance of the Sphinx's face to Khafre's confirms that he built the monument.
How did the Sphinx become associated with Khafre in the first place? Excavation between the huge paws of the Sphinx uncovered a chapel containing dozens of inscribed stelae placed there by the Pharaohs to honor Harmachis, the Spinx god. According to one of the stelae, Thutmose IV (c. 1415 B.C.) was having an after-dinner nap when Harmachis appeared to him and promised to bestow upon him the crown of Egypt if he would dig the Sphinx out of the sand. At the end of the inscription part of Khafre's name appears in broken context where the words "the image made for Atum-Harmakhis" also appear. There is no concrete evidence that Khafre built the Sphinx.
Also, an inscription found in a temple near the Great Pyramid of Khufu states that this Pharaoh carried out repairs to the Sphinx's tail and headdress. As Khufu was Khafre's older brother and predessor, the logical conclusion is that the Sphinx had already existed long BEFORE the time of Khafre.
SOURCE: ANCIENT MYSTERIES BY PETER JAMES AND NICK THORPE
Thanks Shadowlady. I did look, BTW.
just my 2 yen.....
the original head was that of a lion, and the sphinx has been on the giza plataue since itwas a rain forest.
so
1- the attachment to dynastic egypt is severed
2- the fact that it existed there prior the last 2 ice ages dates it back at least 12-20,000 years'
why do idiots keep referencing the great pyramids to khufu? the enscriptions were made in his name thousands of years after their atual construction.
the sphinx and great pyramids both existed there long before "egypt" existed....
for all the so called researchers here, how are you makeing the mistake of following conventional history and timelines?
and no, Im not saying aliens built them. even that is a foolish and irresponsible term to use.
the original head was that of a lion, and the sphinx has been on the giza plataue since itwas a rain forest.
so
1- the attachment to dynastic egypt is severed
2- the fact that it existed there prior the last 2 ice ages dates it back at least 12-20,000 years'
why do idiots keep referencing the great pyramids to khufu? the enscriptions were made in his name thousands of years after their atual construction.
the sphinx and great pyramids both existed there long before "egypt" existed....
for all the so called researchers here, how are you makeing the mistake of following conventional history and timelines?
and no, Im not saying aliens built them. even that is a foolish and irresponsible term to use.
QUOTE(Ichiban Avtar @ Jul 17 2006, 01:45 AM) [snapback]1272553[/snapback]
just my 2 yen.....
the original head was that of a lion, and the sphinx has been on the giza plataue since itwas a rain forest.
When was the Giza plateau a rain forest?
QUOTE
2- the fact that it existed there prior the last 2 ice ages dates it back at least 12-20,000 years'
Er, the last ice age started c115,000 years ago .....
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 17 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]1272978[/snapback]
When was the Giza plateau a rain forest?
Er, the last ice age started c115,000 years ago .....
There have been 'mini' ice ages -
http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/history_health.html
book I just saw on Amazon, but have never read
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:DiTni...t=clnk&cd=8
maybe of interest -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/unde...iceage_02.shtml
[quote name='Roj47' date='Jul 17 2006, 12:25 PM' post='1273014']
There have been 'mini' ice ages [quote]
Yes, in fact if we take the end of the last glacial as being the termination of the Younger Dryas cold event c11,600 years ago (which is also the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary) then there have been two recognisable 'mini ice ages' since - the 8.2kya event and the Little Ice Age of the last millenia.
But I don't think Ichiban was referring to these. Although they would take us back to 6,200BC which is a tad more realistic than 20,000 years ago
There have been 'mini' ice ages [quote]
Yes, in fact if we take the end of the last glacial as being the termination of the Younger Dryas cold event c11,600 years ago (which is also the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary) then there have been two recognisable 'mini ice ages' since - the 8.2kya event and the Little Ice Age of the last millenia.
But I don't think Ichiban was referring to these. Although they would take us back to 6,200BC which is a tad more realistic than 20,000 years ago
A two year old could figure out that the head is way too small to fit with the rest.
It is obvious that an ego maniac had the original chiseled down to resemble themselves, whatever date anyone once chose for it.
They found clear and undeniable water erosion present.
Stick with that for dating the original.
It is 2006 for god's sake, not the 1800s anymore.
It is obvious that an ego maniac had the original chiseled down to resemble themselves, whatever date anyone once chose for it.
They found clear and undeniable water erosion present.
Stick with that for dating the original.
It is 2006 for god's sake, not the 1800s anymore.
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Jul 17 2006, 02:27 PM) [snapback]1273138[/snapback]
A two year old could figure out that the head is way too small to fit with the rest.
It is obvious that an ego maniac had the original chiseled down to resemble themselves, whatever date anyone once chose for it.
They found clear and undeniable water erosion present.
Stick with that for dating the original.
It is 2006 for god's sake, not the 1800s anymore.
these were my points....
as far as dating the ice age i spoke of...i cant.
i know for the type of water erosion archeologist described, either a long harsh flood took place for 40 years....or, which is more likely, the sphinx was rained on periodically for some thousand years.
and the disporportionalized head should rule out any dynastic king...terrible job
I could find it logical for the Egyptians to find it and make a god off of it (Hamarchis) and then by the time the fourth dynasty rolls around they find that the pharoah has a similar face, and then start raving that it was made for him. That's my speculation on it. I still go with it being made in 12,000 BC.
QUOTE(Ichiban Avtar @ Jul 17 2006, 05:11 PM) [snapback]1273245[/snapback]
i know for the type of water erosion archeologist described, either a long harsh flood took place for 40 years....or, which is more likely, the sphinx was rained on periodically for some thousand years.
Yes. The geological evidence (which as I mentioned before, is disputed) suggests that the sphinx was exposed to frequent rainfall over a long period of time.
This suggests a date for its carving before the end of the last pluvial period - which for that part of Egypt came to an end around the time that Dynastic Egypt appeared - ie approx 5,500 years ago.
This in turn implies an earlier date for the carving of the Sphinx. But it need only have been a thousand or so years earlier. There's no reason to suppose it need have been carved any earlier than about 6-6,500 years ago (ie 4-4,500BC)
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 18 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]1274121[/snapback]
This in turn implies an earlier date for the carving of the Sphinx. But it need only have been a thousand or so years earlier. There's no reason to suppose it need have been carved any earlier than about 6-6,500 years ago (ie 4-4,500BC)
Taking that the Sphinx was built 4,000BC and the pyramids after this in say 3,500 BC on this timescale.
How do we get from such marvels to the very poorly constructed pyramids of around 1000BC.
Is it possible to lose the ability to create so quickly? or was there another factor at the time?
QUOTE(Roj47 @ Jul 18 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]1274125[/snapback]
Taking that the Sphinx was built 4,000BC and the pyramids after this in say 3,500 BC on this timescale.
How do we get from such marvels to the very poorly constructed pyramids of around 1000BC.
Is it possible to lose the ability to create so quickly? or was there another factor at the time?
Well I for one am not arguing that the pyramids were built that early
But in any case, one might like to compare a cathedral built today with one built 800 years ago. Which is the more impressive? Why have we gone from producing such massive, complex, works of architecture to much, much simpler and plain buildings?
Maybe in 3,000 years time our ancestors may themselves be puzzeling over our apparent decline in building skills?
Styles change. Priorites change. And at the time they were built, the later - less impressive today - pyramids may well have been deemed superior to the older ones? Or maybe just more environmentally friendy? Who are we to know for sure?
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 18 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1274299[/snapback]
one might like to compare a cathedral built today with one built 800 years ago. Which is the more impressive? Why have we gone from producing such massive, complex, works of architecture to much, much simpler and plain buildings?
Maybe in 3,000 years time our ancestors may themselves be puzzeling over our apparent decline in building skills?
Very good point.
Looks like we are getting a game of tennis on opinions going
I just don't think people have the same budgets that we used to, or as much of an imagination to draw out something like the old cathedrals. It's quite sad when you think about it.
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 18 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1274299[/snapback]
Well I for one am not arguing that the pyramids were built that early
But in any case, one might like to compare a cathedral built today with one built 800 years ago. Which is the more impressive? Why have we gone from producing such massive, complex, works of architecture to much, much simpler and plain buildings?
Maybe in 3,000 years time our ancestors may themselves be puzzeling over our apparent decline in building skills?
Styles change. Priorites change. And at the time they were built, the later - less impressive today - pyramids may well have been deemed superior to the older ones? Or maybe just more environmentally friendy? Who are we to know for sure?
we have not gone from building complex works of architecture to much simpler buildings or we would not have skyscrapers. Modern buildings are the result of a steady evolution in civil engineering science. What you should really say is that tastes have changed but the engineering has evolved into a true science.
The fact remains though that the ancient egyptians suddenly appeared with a range of skills that allowed them to produce very sophisticated and whimsical architecture designed not only to last for an eternity but also aesthetically awe inspiring . And then they gradually lost those skills. Why?
The sphinx is depiction of an angel, taught by the Enoch angels to the Egyptians.
It's also got an astrological background.
It's also got an astrological background.
cool
The Sphinx was built at the beginning of Tep Zepi in 10516BC, in a 25920 year cycle and was originally a Loins head Symbolic of the Leo Age (Lion-Sun) when this was coming up on the Horizon. The Egyptians built monoliths on Earth in accordance with the science and design of Heaven and the Masonics are the keepers of this knowledge today which is only used now in their rituals. They previously built all the Gothic buildings based on this knowledge, yet this knowledge was lost due to the lack of apprentices (first degree) through which the master masons (second and third degree) would pass on this knowlege.
QUOTE(dimensional @ Jul 19 2006, 04:33 PM) [snapback]1275789[/snapback]
The Sphinx was built at the beginning of Tep Zepi in 10516BC, in a 25920 year cycle and was originally a Loins head Symbolic of the Leo Age (Lion-Sun) when this was coming up on the Horizon. The Egyptians built monoliths on Earth in accordance with the science and design of Heaven and the Masonics are the keepers of this knowledge
I agree IMO with the date, solely based on the arguements by Graham Hancock, although with further research I may alter my opinion.
Agree with Leo and the sculpting.
Struggle with Egyptians building monoliths on Earth. Are you referring to the Bosnian pyramids, S. American ways etc....?
These were constructed by locals, and not directly by Egyptians. (Can go into a whole debate on Egyptian travellings now ).
I did not think Egyptians believed in Heaven, but more the afterlife. Is there a difference?
QUOTE(Roj47 @ Jul 19 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]1275803[/snapback]
I agree IMO with the date, solely based on the arguements by Graham Hancock, although with further research I may alter my opinion.
Agree with Leo and the sculpting.
Struggle with Egyptians building monoliths on Earth. Are you referring to the Bosnian pyramids, S. American ways etc....?
These were constructed by locals, and not directly by Egyptians. (Can go into a whole debate on Egyptian travellings now ).
I did not think Egyptians believed in Heaven, but more the afterlife. Is there a difference?
The monoliths the Egyptians built obviously were the Pyramids and as they were the Original designers of science and design (Thoth, Horus) it was carried on by other cultures. The Egyptians believed in the Upper and Lower Kingdoms representing "Heaven and Earth" and sought immortality of the Soul to obtain Eternal life. To understand this further you would have to understand the Egyptian Judgment Scene the weighing of the Heart "Scales of Maat".
the built it along with the pyramids 
built it along with the pyramids
In 1996 in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, Italian mineralogist Vincenzo de Michele spotted an unusual yellow-green gem in the middle of one of Tutankhamun's necklaces.
The jewel was tested and found to be glass, but intriguingly it is older than the earliest Egyptian civilisation.
Working with Egyptian geologist Aly Barakat, they traced its origins to unexplained chunks of glass found scattered in the sand in a remote region of the Sahara Desert.
But the glass is itself a scientific enigma. How did it get to be there and who or what made it?
The jewel was tested and found to be glass, but intriguingly it is older than the earliest Egyptian civilisation.
Working with Egyptian geologist Aly Barakat, they traced its origins to unexplained chunks of glass found scattered in the sand in a remote region of the Sahara Desert.
But the glass is itself a scientific enigma. How did it get to be there and who or what made it?
Way cool post Lion.
I never heard about this glass before.
Would like ot learn more about its composition and traits.
I never heard about this glass before.
Would like ot learn more about its composition and traits.
the egyptians built the sphinx, read what reall scientists have to say..... try google and if they are not accredited archeaologists and historians and egptologists, then they dont amount to crap.
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Jul 21 2006, 12:38 AM) [snapback]1277643[/snapback]
Way cool post Lion.
I never heard about this glass before.
Would like ot learn more about its composition and traits.
Egyptian desert glass. Lion was quoting from a BBC article promoting a Horizon programme that was broadcast last night
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5196362.stm
QUOTE(pbarosso @ Jul 21 2006, 10:44 AM) [snapback]1278033[/snapback]
the egyptians built the sphinx, read what reall scientists have to say..... try google and if they are not accredited archeaologists and historians and egptologists, then they dont amount to crap.
Most Egyptologists can not agree with Archealogists on the timing of Dynasties.
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 21 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]1278036[/snapback]
Egyptian desert glass. Lion was quoting from a BBC article promoting a Horizon programme that was broadcast last night
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5196362.stm
heh..... Thought it sounded familiar. Have the prog recorded to watch on Sunday night
QUOTE(pbarosso @ Jul 21 2006, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1278033[/snapback]
the egyptians built the sphinx, read what reall scientists have to say..... try google and if they are not accredited archeaologists and historians and egptologists, then they dont amount to crap.
Really archeaologists and historians and egpytologists may know what they do but you also need to know about astronomy and astrology, bascially if you want to understand Earth's History, the Present and Future you need to understand the science and the design of
Heaven. The Akashic records is written in the Stars and the Egyptians knew the science
and design of Heaven, every thing they built was in accordance with this.
The Hermetic' writings express the philosophy 'as above, so below' and advocate the drawing down to earth of cosmic powers as an essential step in mankind's quest for knowledge of the divine and immortality of the soul: 'And I, said Hermes will make Mankind intelligent, I will confer wisdom on them, and make known to them the truth. I will never cease to benefit thereby the life of mortal men; and then will I benefit each one of them, when the force of nature working in him is in accord with movement of the stars above. (Keeper of Genesis)
QUOTE(Essan @ Jul 21 2006, 05:46 AM) [snapback]1278036[/snapback]
Egyptian desert glass. Lion was quoting from a BBC article promoting a Horizon programme that was broadcast last night
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5196362.stm
So it all goes back to believing that what hit Siberia was a meteror, something I am not yet convinced of so long as some say it had to have had an iron core and others state just as emphatically that it could not have had an iron core.
QUOTE(Bella-Angelique @ Jul 21 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]1278112[/snapback]
So it all goes back to believing that what hit Siberia was a meteror, something I am not yet convinced of so long as some say it had to have had an iron core and others state just as emphatically that it could not have had an iron core.
Look at the Big Picture, are you a mineralologist
QUOTE(Ichiban Avtar @ Jul 17 2006, 05:11 PM) [snapback]1273245[/snapback]
these were my points....
as far as dating the ice age i spoke of...i cant.
i know for the type of water erosion archeologist described, either a long harsh flood took place for 40 years....or, which is more likely, the sphinx was rained on periodically for some thousand years.
and the disporportionalized head should rule out any dynastic king...terrible job
I agree, but the sphinx was eroded so hard by the water (flood, mega tsunami or centuries of rain) perhaps (if it was a lion) it didnt resembled anymore what it was supposed to look like. I imagine the Egyptians living for years next to a disfigured hill who resemble a lion but it so heavely damaged by the erosion that it look like more as a monster than a lion.
Perhaps this is the reason why the locals always feared the shpinx? Farao Khaphra reshaped the sphinx with replacing the ugly eroded head with he's own face and then he could claim he build the sphinx, afterall before it was just a eroded irreconizable hill. But the superstitious locals they still feared the "old shape" and they passed this to the greek and the arabs? could be....why not! of course there no proff but just guessing....
QUOTE(Roj47 @ Jul 18 2006, 09:59 AM) [snapback]1274125[/snapback]
Is it possible to lose the ability to create so quickly? or was there another factor at the time?
Civilizations as they age often lose the historic dynamic, their historical will to compete with their own past glories.
Thus there are third-world countries which were once world-powers but today the inhabitants sit around and discuss harvesting the corn....tomorrow, that is.
But another thousand years and that same culture may be colonizing the stars.
These things move in cycles.
You might want to read Oswald Spengler's THE DECLINE OF THE WEST which discusses exactly this in great detail
QUOTE
...and the disporportionalized head should rule out any dynastic king...terrible job
QUOTE(Lux Felix @ Jul 23 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1280273[/snapback]
I agree, but the sphinx was eroded so hard by the water (flood, mega tsunami or centuries of rain) perhaps (if it was a lion) it didnt resembled anymore what it was supposed to look like. I imagine the Egyptians living for years next to a disfigured hill who resemble a lion but it so heavely damaged by the erosion that it look like more as a monster than a lion.
Perhaps this is the reason why the locals always feared the shpinx? Farao Khaphra reshaped the sphinx with replacing the ugly eroded head with he's own face and then he could claim he build the sphinx, afterall before it was just a eroded irreconizable hill. But the superstitious locals they still feared the "old shape" and they passed this to the greek and the arabs? could be....why not! of course there no proff but just guessing....
There exists a perfectly reasonable solution to this "problem" of the disproportionate head on the sphinx. The sphinx enclosure and body show a huge crack, still visible, that no doubt existed at the time of the carving. This crack can be seen on both sides (north and south) of the enclosure and running through the sphinx's body from one side to the other, under the finishing stones. The position of the crack is such that, had the body been carved in proportion to the face, the crack would have run through the hindquarters of the sphinx and just ahead of the rear end. This, it is theorized, was noticed by the Egyptian artisans and the body was made longer in order to situate the crack further away from the rear, thus helping ensure that the rear wouldn't simply fall off when the crack shifted.
The crack is still there, measurements show that the rear of the sphinx would have been unstable had it been carved in proportion to the head, so the theory is reasonable.
BTW, the redating of the sphinx by Robert Schoch to around 6,000 BCE and his subsequent band wagoneers that push his date back to 12,000 BCE is in no way based on any water erosion. The erosion evident at the site merely is used in support of Schoch's theory, and is not at all used to identify the date of the carving of the monument itself. I thought I already showed everyone this here at U.M. If not, then please read the article I wrote and posted at ATS's Wiki site "Tinwiki":
Dating the Sphinx - Tinwiki
And please, no jokes about the title. My wife wasn't all that old when we met, and the term "harpy" is more appropriate for her than "sphinx."
Harte
QUOTE(cerberus @ Jul 15 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]1271259[/snapback]
After looking at the Magical Egypt documentary series on the other thread, it led my to wonder about somthing they didnt really go into.. the SPHINX.
My question is.. Who built it, why and when?
Anyone have any theories on this one?
Interesting isnt it? but much more interesting is the theory that the Sphynx was standing during the melting of the last ice age. If it was then it answers why the Sphynx is so heavily weathered. The monument itself is made from bedrock - limestone - which is very soft and easy to work and of course very easily weathered especially if that weathering took the form of water cascading down its sides during incessant storms. If the Sphynx really had stood during the rains brought by the melting of the glaciers in the northern hemisphere then the ancient Egyptians would have possessed a folk memory of it and written it down as 'flood legend' which indeed they did. This brings forth another theory: did the Egyptians build the 'great' Pyramids in such a way as to be not only watertight but also on ground high enough to avoid the worst of another deluge and of such shape as to resist the powerful flow of water around them?
This is downhill from the great pyramid. If there was water coming from this site it would have carved a channel through the weakest rock lying most directly downhill. The Sphinx is limestone and marl which is mostly considered unusable for quarrying but if the adjacent area were mostly marl it would have been eroded away leaving a massive "island" in the center of the channel. It may have required very little effort to carve this beast.
As evidence note that the causeway to the great pyramid runs directly adjacent to this structure. They would naturally have paralleled the natural gradient in the design of this to minimize the amount of work necessary to its construction. Note, too, that the removal of stone runs in a line from the pyramid. Even the shape conforms to a rock that was naturally eroded along an east/ west line.
If this structure pre-dates the the work that controlled flooding and provided irrigation for the desert then it's likely that there were accidents that resulted in huge amounts of water flowing by. They likely would have shunted any excess water down this channel before the existence of the causeway.
From earlier post:
"we have not gone from building complex works of architecture to much simpler buildings or we would not have skyscrapers. Modern buildings are the result of a steady evolution in civil engineering science. What you should really say is that tastes have changed but the engineering has evolved into a true science.
The fact remains though that the ancient egyptians suddenly appeared with a range of skills that allowed them to produce very sophisticated and whimsical architecture designed not only to last for an eternity but also aesthetically awe inspiring . And then they gradually lost those skills. Why?"
These were the result of evolution as well. First there was a mustaba above the Sphinx and then a step pyramid and finally the great pyramid and it's cousins. They developed this technology because it brought them great wealth as a second crop each year. But their success in controlling the water led to sedimentation of the natural channels and there was no longer any value to the technology. It was quickly lost.
But its products are far more enduring.
As evidence note that the causeway to the great pyramid runs directly adjacent to this structure. They would naturally have paralleled the natural gradient in the design of this to minimize the amount of work necessary to its construction. Note, too, that the removal of stone runs in a line from the pyramid. Even the shape conforms to a rock that was naturally eroded along an east/ west line.
If this structure pre-dates the the work that controlled flooding and provided irrigation for the desert then it's likely that there were accidents that resulted in huge amounts of water flowing by. They likely would have shunted any excess water down this channel before the existence of the causeway.
From earlier post:
"we have not gone from building complex works of architecture to much simpler buildings or we would not have skyscrapers. Modern buildings are the result of a steady evolution in civil engineering science. What you should really say is that tastes have changed but the engineering has evolved into a true science.
The fact remains though that the ancient egyptians suddenly appeared with a range of skills that allowed them to produce very sophisticated and whimsical architecture designed not only to last for an eternity but also aesthetically awe inspiring . And then they gradually lost those skills. Why?"
These were the result of evolution as well. First there was a mustaba above the Sphinx and then a step pyramid and finally the great pyramid and it's cousins. They developed this technology because it brought them great wealth as a second crop each year. But their success in controlling the water led to sedimentation of the natural channels and there was no longer any value to the technology. It was quickly lost.
But its products are far more enduring.
QUOTE
After talking to a JW i know last night about this, i thought of something.
What is a JW? A Jedi Warrior?
I've read and seen a LOT of documentaries about the Sphynx. Here is my conclusion:
#1 The archaeological record is too sparse for anthropologists to make ANY correct assumptions about the pyramid builders in Egypt. (Don't forget, they've been telling us that Neanderthals were total idiots that Homo Sapien wiped out, which is NOT true. It only takes a little evidense of something for all the anthropologists etc to completely change their minds about something in history. I was going to be an anthropologist but quit because of the hypocrisy in the field.)
#2 Zahi Hawass is a total Nationalist and will always stand by the Egyptian people and say that Khefre made the Pyramids. He is OBSESSED with Giza, and he will always claim that he is right no matter what any evidense comes around. He is a jerk, imo.
#3 Egypt/Northern Africa was a beautiful tropical jungle like place during the Ice Age. Just because someone says Ice Age does not mean in any way that the entire Earth was convered in Ice. The area around the equator was excellent for humans to live, in fact it was probably the best place they could be on earth, and probably had the larest populations in those areas.
Magical Egypt has 6 DVDs to it. If you only watched one, then you didn't get the entire picutre. I own these DVDs, and I LOVE John Anthony West. He's got Egypt perfectly, and the rest of peers shun him for thinking outside the box. They are like capitalists, they are so corrupt that they have to keep out the people who actually THINK and actually Challenge what the history books say.
I believe that Khefre "Stole" Giza for himself. I think the scores of housing that Zahi Hawass has found could have been lots of things. They could have been doing repairs to the centuries old pyramid. Or better yet, why not allow Khefre to be the one who built the Giza pyramid. He DID NOT build the Sphynx. The only time in Africa that there could have been enough water for enough time to create the water weathering on the Sphynx was 12-13,000 years ago. Why would a geologist lie about this? He was shown pictures of the enclosure and the Sphynx itself, then went to the actual site, and he concluded that there was only one time it could have been made. THe reason the archaeologists wont accept this is because there's no "evidense". That infuriates me. They want an artifact. Well what artifacts did we have from Giza until Zahi discovered the "builders city?" we didn't. It's because they hate John Anthony and don't want him to be right. THey would rather he do all the research and all the digging, and then allow Zahi to ultimately find something and then it's ok for them to say that the Sphynx is that old.
The head is NOT the original. The original was the head, and Khefre chizzled it away. He chizzled it into something different. BUT when you compare the face of the Sphynx to statues we have of Khefre they do not match. There are many key differences in the two faces. I saw a documentary about this where they had a FBI profiler come in and sketch the face of the Sphynx, schetch the face of Khefre and mathematically compare them. It was not the same. This could mean two things. Either khefre did a crappy job, OR its not even him. Some believe the Sphynx was a huge lion first and then carved into a man's head later. Could it be that the heiroglyph of a sphynx came from the sphynx itself, not the other way around.
I could go off about this forever. I believe the Sphynx is definitely older than we think.
#1 The archaeological record is too sparse for anthropologists to make ANY correct assumptions about the pyramid builders in Egypt. (Don't forget, they've been telling us that Neanderthals were total idiots that Homo Sapien wiped out, which is NOT true. It only takes a little evidense of something for all the anthropologists etc to completely change their minds about something in history. I was going to be an anthropologist but quit because of the hypocrisy in the field.)
#2 Zahi Hawass is a total Nationalist and will always stand by the Egyptian people and say that Khefre made the Pyramids. He is OBSESSED with Giza, and he will always claim that he is right no matter what any evidense comes around. He is a jerk, imo.
#3 Egypt/Northern Africa was a beautiful tropical jungle like place during the Ice Age. Just because someone says Ice Age does not mean in any way that the entire Earth was convered in Ice. The area around the equator was excellent for humans to live, in fact it was probably the best place they could be on earth, and probably had the larest populations in those areas.
Magical Egypt has 6 DVDs to it. If you only watched one, then you didn't get the entire picutre. I own these DVDs, and I LOVE John Anthony West. He's got Egypt perfectly, and the rest of peers shun him for thinking outside the box. They are like capitalists, they are so corrupt that they have to keep out the people who actually THINK and actually Challenge what the history books say.
I believe that Khefre "Stole" Giza for himself. I think the scores of housing that Zahi Hawass has found could have been lots of things. They could have been doing repairs to the centuries old pyramid. Or better yet, why not allow Khefre to be the one who built the Giza pyramid. He DID NOT build the Sphynx. The only time in Africa that there could have been enough water for enough time to create the water weathering on the Sphynx was 12-13,000 years ago. Why would a geologist lie about this? He was shown pictures of the enclosure and the Sphynx itself, then went to the actual site, and he concluded that there was only one time it could have been made. THe reason the archaeologists wont accept this is because there's no "evidense". That infuriates me. They want an artifact. Well what artifacts did we have from Giza until Zahi discovered the "builders city?" we didn't. It's because they hate John Anthony and don't want him to be right. THey would rather he do all the research and all the digging, and then allow Zahi to ultimately find something and then it's ok for them to say that the Sphynx is that old.
The head is NOT the original. The original was the head, and Khefre chizzled it away. He chizzled it into something different. BUT when you compare the face of the Sphynx to statues we have of Khefre they do not match. There are many key differences in the two faces. I saw a documentary about this where they had a FBI profiler come in and sketch the face of the Sphynx, schetch the face of Khefre and mathematically compare them. It was not the same. This could mean two things. Either khefre did a crappy job, OR its not even him. Some believe the Sphynx was a huge lion first and then carved into a man's head later. Could it be that the heiroglyph of a sphynx came from the sphynx itself, not the other way around.
I could go off about this forever. I believe the Sphynx is definitely older than we think.
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