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Shone
The Case Study is portrayed in a very good video that reconstructs the path of Flight 77 in a 3D model along with photographic evidence. Any non-believers still out there may have a tough time arguing with this proof.

http://troubledone.com/flight_77_case_study.htm
Gsus Da Funk
What I see is that the one who fly that plane is true professional since he/she flew that plane maybe 5ft from the ground and real steady. Maybe you can explain me how easy that task is?
Pagan_2k
And considering those arabs flight instructors reckoned they were "terrible pilots"
I reckon they must of got better REAL quick.

What about the fact that one of the first planes to hit the towers did a turn they think must of been between 6-9g's. Wierd cause those planes have limiters that stop a pilot from pulling anything over 1.5g's.
AROCES
Flight instrutor said they were not much interested in taking off and landing which is the most difficult part of flying. Maneuvering an aircraft in flight is not that sohphisticated. You lower the engine power and aircraft will descend, once you attain your desired altitude you put back power at crusing speed and it will stay in that altutude. You bank left or right for direction, just don't go over the bank limit and you will be fine. Add some flaps for lower speed, bank the aircraft to your target, straighten it and yell, "GOD IS GREAT".
AROCES
QUOTE(Gsus Da Funk @ Jul 18 2006, 07:16 AM) [snapback]1274065[/snapback]

What I see is that the one who fly that plane is true professional since he/she flew that plane maybe 5ft from the ground and real steady. Maybe you can explain me how easy that task is?


All you have to do is add power to the plane if you think you are short of your desired touchdown spot. It will stop descending and stay in that altitude.
Gsus Da Funk
Man that is simple.... So all you gotta do is hit the 5ft and you are all right? So all airplanes work the same way, no matter if it is small plane or jumbojet, whoa!
AROCES
YUP! Same principle no matter what the size of the plane is. Doesn't fit your agenda, but that is just the way it is.
phenomenon
I don't think it's quite that easy. wink2.gif
AROCES
For someone with no training or whatsoever, it is not that easy of course.
stephen84
QUOTE(phenomenon @ Jul 22 2006, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1279266[/snapback]

I don't think it's quite that easy. wink2.gif


Thank you.
Much less being able to FIND your target. I guess they just flew down to about 15 feet and followed the road signs, being as its so easy.
AROCES
Pentagon is one structure that is easy to spot when you are up in the air for it's unigue shape. Also, we don't know which part of the Pentgon terrorist really was aiming for.
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 22 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1280212[/snapback]

Pentagon is one structure that is easy to spot when you are up in the air for it's unigue shape. Also, we don't know which part of the Pentgon terrorist really was aiming for.


Sure if you are flying low altitude right over it. But finding your way to the pentagon from the point at which the supposed terrorists supposedly took over the jet, not so easy.

Ya we dont know which side they were aiming for, what a coincidence they did some sort of miracle turn and hit the only side that had been renovated with fire resistant material in case something like this were to ever happen. hmmm hmm.gif
AROCES
Again, not easy if you have no training or whatsoever. If the aircraft was able to make the turn then it is not a miracle maneuver.
frenat
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 23 2006, 03:08 AM) [snapback]1280221[/snapback]

Sure if you are flying low altitude right over it. But finding your way to the pentagon from the point at which the supposed terrorists supposedly took over the jet, not so easy.

Anyone with a small amount of flight experience would know how to use basic navigational beacons. Why couldn't they dial in the VOR located at Washington National airport right near the pentagon?
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 23 2006, 03:59 AM) [snapback]1280342[/snapback]

Again, not easy if you have no training or whatsoever. If the aircraft was able to make the turn then it is not a miracle maneuver.


Exactly, these guys had absolutely no training whatsoever with a passenger airliner.


QUOTE
Anyone with a small amount of flight experience would know how to use basic navigational beacons. Why couldn't they dial in the VOR located at Washington National airport right near the pentagon?


You make it sound so easy. Its not. And according to their trainers, these guys sucked.



frenat
Actually what I described is rather easy. It is one of the first things people learn when learning to navigate. It still doesn't mean they could have flown the aircraft but it does show that basic navigation is not difficult. They wouldn't have to fly a complicated route with multiple waypoints. They only had to fly to one point. When near it, the rest would be visual.
Reincarnated
Very interesting post.
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 23 2006, 06:16 PM) [snapback]1280601[/snapback]

Exactly, these guys had absolutely no training whatsoever with a passenger airliner.
You make it sound so easy. Its not. And according to their trainers, these guys sucked.


Nope, they went to a flight school. And you yourself said their trainer??
Yup, they suck that is why they don't have a license or rating to fly an airline, so they highjacked one.
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 23 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]1280758[/snapback]

Nope, they went to a flight school. And you yourself said their trainer??
Yup, they suck that is why they don't have a license or rating to fly an airline, so they highjacked one.


They were not trained to fly something as big as a 747.
AROCES
How much training do you need when your intention is simply to crash the plane??? Different aircraft have different landing speed, descending speed and power setting. You follow those and you can crash land an aircraft if you have basic flight training.
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 23 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]1280790[/snapback]

How much training do you need when your intention is simply to crash the plane??? Different aircraft have different landing speed, descending speed and power setting. You follow those and you can crash land an aircraft if you have basic flight training.


But to steer the jet directly into your target? After two planes had already struck the WTC and they knew that two more were still up? They knew 77 was hijacked, flying around over our nations CAPITAL, and not one thing was ever done. Very suspicious to say the least.
aquatus1
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 23 2006, 10:11 PM) [snapback]1280797[/snapback]

But to steer the jet directly into your target?


How do you mean, "directly"? They missed. They got lucky that they rolled into it. Why is everyone so sure that they were aiming at that specific wall? Why couldn't they have been trying to dive into the middle of it, but due to their terrible piloting skills, barely managed to crash-land on the lawn outside? Considering the size of the target, that would make far more sense.

QUOTE
After two planes had already struck the WTC and they knew that two more were still up? They knew 77 was hijacked, flying around over our nations CAPITAL, and not one thing was ever done. Very suspicious to say the least.


That has nothing to do with the flying ability of the pilots..
stephen84
QUOTE
How do you mean, "directly"? They missed. They got lucky that they rolled into it. Why is everyone so sure that they were aiming at that specific wall? Why couldn't they have been trying to dive into the middle of it, but due to their terrible piloting skills, barely managed to crash-land on the lawn outside? Considering the size of the target, that would make far more sense.


They didn't crash land on the lawn. Photos reveal that the lawn wasn't even touched.


QUOTE
That has nothing to do with the flying ability of the pilots..


No but it does have something to do with 9/11 Case Study of Flight 77.
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 23 2006, 10:11 PM) [snapback]1280797[/snapback]

But to steer the jet directly into your target? After two planes had already struck the WTC and they knew that two more were still up? They knew 77 was hijacked, flying around over our nations CAPITAL, and not one thing was ever done. Very suspicious to say the least.


Sterring the plane is part of BASIC training, has to be unless one wants to fly straight always. rolleyes.gif How much time are we talking about here to make a decision either to shoot down an Airline passenger? And if they had shot it down, you be questioning now if we really had to shoot it down and maybe should have tried to contact the terrorist into surrendering first.
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 23 2006, 02:44 PM) [snapback]1280866[/snapback]

Sterring the plane is part of BASIC training, has to be unless one wants to fly straight always. rolleyes.gif How much time are we talking about here to make a decision either to shoot down an Airline passenger? And if they had shot it down, you be questioning now if we really had to shoot it down and maybe should have tried to contact the terrorist into surrendering first.


Of course steering is basic flight training, however steering a massive passenger airliner is much different than steering the planes in which the supposed hijackers were trained in.

How long should it take to make a decision on whether or not to shoot it down? Two had already hit their targets, and this one heading towards the capital, would you really think you really you had much of a chance to talk them into surrendering?
aquatus1
So shooting down an airliner full of civilians over a populated area is a logical reaction to that?
stephen84
QUOTE(aquatus1 @ Jul 23 2006, 03:44 PM) [snapback]1280914[/snapback]

So shooting down an airliner full of civilians over a populated area is a logical reaction to that?


As long as all the wreckage falls into a middle class neighborhood. innocent.gif
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 24 2006, 12:41 AM) [snapback]1280913[/snapback]

Of course steering is basic flight training, however steering a massive passenger airliner is much different than steering the planes in which the supposed hijackers were trained in.

How long should it take to make a decision on whether or not to shoot it down? Two had already hit their targets, and this one heading towards the capital, would you really think you really you had much of a chance to talk them into surrendering?


It is not much different, as proof they made the turn.
How would you know if one is really a threat or just got off coursed because of what is going on??? It's not an easy decision you know, you can boldly say now what should have been done, AFTER.
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 24 2006, 12:54 AM) [snapback]1280927[/snapback]

As long as all the wreckage falls into a middle class neighborhood. innocent.gif


You just exposed what you are all about. rolleyes.gif
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 23 2006, 04:26 PM) [snapback]1280947[/snapback]

It is not much different, as proof they made the turn.
How would you know if one is really a threat or just got off coursed because of what is going on??? It's not an easy decision you know, you can boldly say now what should have been done, AFTER.



So as proof that flying a 747 is not much different than flying a much smaller jet, you point to the fact that they made the turn? laugh.gif
If anything, it proves they did not make the turn. Their instructors said they sucked, and this was a pretty tough turn to pull off, especially for a group of guys that never flew a 747 before, or anything nearly as big
Do you even know who "they" is? Because you do know that IT IS A FACT THAT AT LEAST SEVEN OF THE SUPPOSED 911 HIJACKERS ARE STILL ALIVE. IT IS A FACT. A FACT.
Oh and lets see, two hijacked airliners have hit the WTC, this one is hundreds of miles off course and heading straight towards the nations capital. Hmmm, 2 plus 2 equals....
Even if nobody knew whether it was hijacked or not, and even if the other planes had not even been hijacked yet, there would have been two F-16s up there escorting that plane and trying to figure out what was going on. Why the hell do you think we have a billion dollar air defense budget? To just sit and wait around and see if an offcourse plane turns out to be hijacked when it crashes into the White House?
And one more thing, there is a thing called COMMUNICATION. Obviously when two hijacked planes have already hit one of our countries icons, and another plane is way off course, heading to D.C., and you cannot contact the pilots of that plane, it should set off some red lights in your head that maybe, just maybe something is not right here.


QUOTE
You just exposed what you are all about.


Its called a joke, dude.
RedEyeJedi
I know it is crazy that so many people have a hard time facing what is plainly obvious.

9/11 was an inside job.
TK0001
I don't understand why people think that everything would've been avoided if a couple F-16s were actually able to intercept flight 77. Do you think the hijackers would've surrendered and landed peacefully if a couple fighter jets pulled up alongside of them?
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Jul 28 2006, 01:10 AM) [snapback]1285668[/snapback]

So as proof that flying a 747 is not much different than flying a much smaller jet, you point to the fact that they made the turn? laugh.gif
If anything, it proves they did not make the turn. Their instructors said they sucked, and this was a pretty tough turn to pull off, especially for a group of guys that never flew a 747 before, or anything nearly as big
Do you even know who "they" is? Because you do know that IT IS A FACT THAT AT LEAST SEVEN OF THE SUPPOSED 911 HIJACKERS ARE STILL ALIVE. IT IS A FACT. A FACT.
Oh and lets see, two hijacked airliners have hit the WTC, this one is hundreds of miles off course and heading straight towards the nations capital. Hmmm, 2 plus 2 equals....
Even if nobody knew whether it was hijacked or not, and even if the other planes had not even been hijacked yet, there would have been two F-16s up there escorting that plane and trying to figure out what was going on. Why the hell do you think we have a billion dollar air defense budget? To just sit and wait around and see if an offcourse plane turns out to be hijacked when it crashes into the White House?
And one more thing, there is a thing called COMMUNICATION. Obviously when two hijacked planes have already hit one of our countries icons, and another plane is way off course, heading to D.C., and you cannot contact the pilots of that plane, it should set off some red lights in your head that maybe, just maybe something is not right here.
Its called a joke, dude.


Instrutor said, they suck and they were only interested in manuevering an aircraft!
You are understimating the terrorist, and that is one reason 911 happened is because many have understimated the threat and their capability.
Seven are suppose to be alive? Where are they? I bet you can't tell.


By the way, millions of middle class people don't find your joke funny at all. no.gif



smallpackage
This cgi recreation lacks one detail: The arrow shaped mark on the ground directed toward the Pentagon made only weeks before 9/11. wink2.gif
It's actually sad that people believe everything the government says. If the government didn't have anything to hide, they would have released the surveillance camera footage from a hotel close by, which had a clear shot at what really happened that day. Same with a local gas station. But no, they show us a patheticly poor quality 5 frame video which only proves than an object collided with the Pentagon.
AROCES
QUOTE(smallpackage @ Jul 31 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]1289707[/snapback]

This cgi recreation lacks one detail: The arrow shaped mark on the ground directed toward the Pentagon made only weeks before 9/11. wink2.gif
It's actually sad that people believe everything the government says. If the government didn't have anything to hide, they would have released the surveillance camera footage from a hotel close by, which had a clear shot at what really happened that day. Same with a local gas station. But no, they show us a patheticly poor quality 5 frame video which only proves than an object collided with the Pentagon.


You actually believe that someone planned to fly a HUGE aircraft into a famous HUGE building during work hours at DAYTIME, with the hope of no witness or tourist with a camcorder or camera. And now is concern about a video tape of it containing evidence of a cover up!. See how rediculous it sound??? blink.gif
smallpackage
There are numerous witness reports of seeing a small aircraft or a missile. It wouldn't surprise me if someone had caught it on film, but doesn't want to get involved with anything. Surely if they showed the video an agency would confiscate the original footage.

What's ridiculous is the multiple coincidences involved in 911.
AROCES
QUOTE(smallpackage @ Jul 31 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]1289893[/snapback]

There are numerous witness reports of seeing a small aircraft or a missile. It wouldn't surprise me if someone had caught it on film, but doesn't want to get involved with anything. Surely if they showed the video an agency would confiscate the original footage.

What's ridiculous is the multiple coincidences involved in 911.


And now we have a missile seen by NUMEROUS witness, where are they???
You fire a missile and hope no one sees it??? At Washinton DC?? At daytime??? By the Pentagon??? You hit the Pentagon with a huge passenger aircraft to hide a tiny missile???
You actually believe all that instead? ohmy.gif
Reincarnated
wallstreet was sure smiling after 9/11.
AROCES
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Aug 1 2006, 01:53 AM) [snapback]1290122[/snapback]

wallstreet was sure smiling after 9/11.


And now you adding the Wall Street is behind it all? Where is this all coming from?
Reincarnated
QUOTE(AROCES @ Aug 1 2006, 02:37 AM) [snapback]1290185[/snapback]

And now you adding the Wall Street is behind it all? Where is this all coming from?
where did i say wall street was behind it all? i must of missed it somewhere, can you please clarify? thank you. and why are you asking "where this all coming from", your the one putting words in my mouth fool. wall street was smiling after 9/11 because stocks such as gold doubled and many others went up. 9/11 was quote "a blessing in disguise". doesn't mean they were "behind all of this" but they sure as hell reaped the benefits.
AROCES
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Aug 1 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]1290970[/snapback]

where did i say wall street was behind it all? i must of missed it somewhere, can you please clarify? thank you. and why are you asking "where this all coming from", your the one putting words in my mouth fool. wall street was smiling after 9/11 because stocks such as gold doubled and many others went up. 9/11 was quote "a blessing in disguise". doesn't mean they were "behind all of this" but they sure as hell reaped the benefits.


Me a fool? I suggest you stop crying about those who have more than you do, it's just a class envy..
Reincarnated
QUOTE(AROCES @ Aug 1 2006, 05:33 PM) [snapback]1291020[/snapback]
Me a fool?
yes, and you prove my point once again below.
QUOTE(AROCES @ Aug 1 2006, 05:33 PM) [snapback]1291020[/snapback]
I suggest you stop crying about those who have more than you do, it's just a class envy..
AROCES
QUOTE(Reincarnated @ Aug 1 2006, 07:23 PM) [snapback]1291153[/snapback]

yes, and you prove my point once again below.


Well, you keep replying to a fool, makes you look more of a fool.
stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Jul 31 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]1290115[/snapback]

And now we have a missile seen by NUMEROUS witness, where are they???
You fire a missile and hope no one sees it??? At Washinton DC?? At daytime??? By the Pentagon??? You hit the Pentagon with a huge passenger aircraft to hide a tiny missile???
You actually believe all that instead? ohmy.gif


the witnesses are out there, they were even on the news on the day of the attack before the "official" story of flight 77 hitting it came out. some saw a small twenty passenger jet, some saw a large commercial airliner, some saw a missile, some saw a helicopter.

An airplane hit the WTC in New York in the daytime and only one camera caught that, and it was by chance.

And no you dont hit the pentagon with a huge passenger aircraft to hide a missile. If a huge aircraft had hit it, there would have been wreckage everywhere, but it seems the entire plane disappeared into a 16 foot diameter hole.

AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Aug 3 2006, 12:53 AM) [snapback]1292874[/snapback]

the witnesses are out there, they were even on the news on the day of the attack before the "official" story of flight 77 hitting it came out. some saw a small twenty passenger jet, some saw a large commercial airliner, some saw a missile, some saw a helicopter.

An airplane hit the WTC in New York in the daytime and only one camera caught that, and it was by chance.

And no you dont hit the pentagon with a huge passenger aircraft to hide a missile. If a huge aircraft had hit it, there would have been wreckage everywhere, but it seems the entire plane disappeared into a 16 foot diameter hole.


- Yeah, on the day it happened, people tend to see things that isn't so. That is just normal.
- So, you telling me the one who planned it thinks the chance of someone taking a photo or a video of it would be very minimal?
- What? The whole plane disappeared? So, you telling me now even United Airlines is involve here??? rolleyes.gif
stephen84
QUOTE
Yeah, on the day it happened, people tend to see things that isn't so. That is just normal.


so you are saying its normal to mistake a helicoptor or a very small private jet for a huge commercial airliner? not very likely. you have to give your fellow humans a little more credit than that.


QUOTE
So, you telling me the one who planned it thinks the chance of someone taking a photo or a video of it would be very minimal?


who knows. but the fact that nobody did get it on film, except for security cameras, says a lot. but one thing to look at is the Kennedy assasination. look how very few photos we have of that. should we believe that there were only 2 or 3 people that day taking pictures of the president? many people claim there cameras were confiscated and never to be seen again.

QUOTE
What? The whole plane disappeared? So, you telling me now even United Airlines is involve here???


U.A. does not neccessarily have to be involved here. The real flight 77 could have been switched out with whatever it was that hit the pentagon. But the photos of the pentagon right after it was hit show absolutely no evidence of a commercial airliner. There is way to little wreckage and a small hole with lots of smoke coming out.
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Aug 3 2006, 03:45 AM) [snapback]1293081[/snapback]

so you are saying its normal to mistake a helicoptor or a very small private jet for a huge commercial airliner? not very likely. you have to give your fellow humans a little more credit than that.
who knows. but the fact that nobody did get it on film, except for security cameras, says a lot. but one thing to look at is the Kennedy assasination. look how very few photos we have of that. should we believe that there were only 2 or 3 people that day taking pictures of the president? many people claim there cameras were confiscated and never to be seen again.
U.A. does not neccessarily have to be involved here. The real flight 77 could have been switched out with whatever it was that hit the pentagon. But the photos of the pentagon right after it was hit show absolutely no evidence of a commercial airliner. There is way to little wreckage and a small hole with lots of smoke coming out.


- Well, they were saying they saw something and where is it??? Does not mean they say they saw, it is acutally there. Kind of like the ones who saw monsters and goonies.
- Oh there were many photos of JFK that time. But only a few were taken at the exact second or moment that is useful for any investigation. A flying bullet is different from a fying Aircraft, one is visible you know.
- What? How can you not have UA be involved here when it is their Aircraft that is suppose to have crashed??? And additionally, the INSURANCE company! They are involve too?
Hmmm, getting tougher and tougher to explain, huh?

stephen84
QUOTE(AROCES @ Aug 2 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]1293147[/snapback]

- Well, they were saying they saw something and where is it??? Does not mean they say they saw, it is acutally there. Kind of like the ones who saw monsters and goonies.
- Oh there were many photos of JFK that time. But only a few were taken at the exact second or moment that is useful for any investigation. A flying bullet is different from a fying Aircraft, one is visible you know.
- What? How can you not have UA be involved here when it is their Aircraft that is suppose to have crashed??? And additionally, the INSURANCE company! They are involve too?
Hmmm, getting tougher and tougher to explain, huh?


-Yes there was something, but it does not appear that it was a commercial airliner.
-It was U.A.s airliner and that was pretty much all the extent of their involvement needed. The government could have easily hijacked the jet by remote control, landed it, replaced it with a "fake" flight 77 or drone or whatever it was, and crashed it into the pentagon. Then done away with the real Flight 77 and its occupants.
- Im not seeing why the insurance company would have to be involved.
AROCES
QUOTE(stephen84 @ Aug 3 2006, 06:31 AM) [snapback]1293177[/snapback]

-Yes there was something, but it does not appear that it was a commercial airliner.
-It was U.A.s airliner and that was pretty much all the extent of their involvement needed. The government could have easily hijacked the jet by remote control, landed it, replaced it with a "fake" flight 77 or drone or whatever it was, and crashed it into the pentagon. Then done away with the real Flight 77 and its occupants.
- Im not seeing why the insurance company would have to be involved.


- It DOES NOT APPEAR? So, no one really is sure what they saw then.
- Do you have any idea how rediculous you sound making such theory? blink.gif
- Commercial planes have insurance, just llike your Automobile. And the Insurance Co. won't pay the airline until a complete investigation is done!
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