I don't believe in supernatural psychic abilities, but I do believe the "tests" that offer money are fixed and impossible to pass. I'm not too concerned with proving or disproving those abilities anyhow. It's not like someone could KILL someone else with Telekinesis. If these powers do exist, it's not like being able to move/float a pencil will mean you can blow up a 200-pound, all muscle, professional Boxer. (not saying that I am one, but I could be someday.)

I'd just like to point out that although science was in fact wrong in those instances, they are the exception rather than the rule. The fact that you are even on a computer, discussing things with people from all over the world, is an incredible testament to science.

I'm honestly indifferent to the rest of that post, but I see believers bashing science way too often, usually because it doesn't always agree with psi, whilst they use products of science to do so.

everybody as the innate ability to see into the future, but some are more intuitive then others, while some ned help with finding their abilities!

Well, there ISN'T enough evidence anywhere to be sure whether psychic powers actually do or don't exist. You go to any search engine and look for vids or clips with som1 ACTUALLY doing it and they are all fake or edited. However do not completely rule them out as anything is possible. Just as there is no proof that it exists there also isn't any proof that they dont exist or that it havesn't been discovered. Its like gravity, we know what it does and how it works but we dont know what it IS.

Besides, the human brain in itself is in extremely complex tool, who is 2 say that one day we won't evolve into something even more complex? Concious thought should be concidered as "psychic". There is no saying if it is possible 2 evolve into something that can effect things in a physical manner beyond the human body. Right now we need cords (nerves) (kind of like a computer) to do things around us. Like an internet connection HOWEVER there are WIRELESS internet connections. (This might sounds confusing but the only way i know of how to explain it atm) Who is to say that human beings mightn't become "Wireless" one day? Obviously we'd actually need to tap into the natural structure of everything that surrounds us but we really don't know because we DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

i THINK that seeing into the future is simply being able to take events that are happening around you and put it into an ordered squence subconciosly, sometimes the outcome of the next event is so obvious that one can't help but "see into the future"

Its kind of like these things i got in a magazine once, its a fully blurry picture yet if u stare at it long enough ur brain does some phinominal mathimatical thing so u can actually SEE what the blurry image is. I think this is what "seeing into the future" really is. Just ur brain subconciously taking in what's around it and determing what might happen next.

Also kind of like KNOWING that som1 is going to ring the door 2 seconds before they ring it.

Because there is a lack of logic, evidence and intelligence to "psychic" powers.

Exceptions to the rule? I have a very high regard for science and do not doubt that it is a fine and wonderful process by which humanity gains understanding and control of nature... but science has a long series of mistaken declarations brought about by everything from fraud, bias, ignorance, or simple error.

Let's see:
The world is flat
Meteors are superstition
Spinach is a super food
Electric shocks can cure diseases
Spinning people can cure insanity
High levels oxygen is good for premature underweight babies (some of the babies went blind)
Uselessness of the appendix (It seems to help in resisting radiation for some reason)
A lot of stuff about Dinosaurs
Any number of archeological errors
N rays
Alternate current energy is extremely dangerous
etc.

Science isn't perfect and some scientists don't act very scientific. What I'm saying is not that science is bad but that scientists may have missed something or made a mistaked declaration like it sometimes has in the past. Often science corrects its records quickly but sometimes the records stay "wrong" for decades.

If none of these things are real, why have scientists from governments, big companies, and universities around the world devoted so much time and effort to studying the phenomenon?

Would you mind explaining?

Many people have found enough logic, evidence, and intelligence to look into these things including leading scientists from around the world.

Show me some evidence to support such a claim.

As for the "door bell" example, that simply isn't a good enough example.

How many times does a doorbell ring? And how many of those times can anyone say they were thinking about it? We always seem to concentrate on the "positives" and totally ignore the negatives.

Show me anyone who can correctly tell me that their bell is going to ring, not once or twice but many times.

Science makes mistakes, yes, but always corrects them. You don't even know that they are mistakes until they are corrected. That is how science evolves and changes.


Let's see

evidence: none, or it would be a proven scientific fact, which it definetly isn't

intelligence: there is no intelligence in it or you would know its not possible

logic: logic tells us since there is no possible way and no evidence that it is impossible.

Make sense? The only thing remotely close to evidence is false claims from attention deprived adolesents.

It's easy to make lists. Sure there's been a ton of scientific error, but contrasted with a full list of what science has gotten right, it seems much less ominous.

No offense intended, but I think some of your points are kind of sketchy, though not necessarily false. They just rely on perception. For instance, spinach is quite healthy, but how do you define super food? What about electroshock therapy, do you count mental ailments as diseases? How would you define AC current as being extremely dangerous? A household AC wall socket does have the potential to kill you after all, and AC is more dangerous than DC.

(No offense taken. I'm in this for the debate more than anything else. Forgive my sketchiness.)

Anyway, sorry, the spinach super food thing happened I think in the world war 2 era when people were starting to record the nutritional values of vegetables. Someone made a decimal error when recording the iron content (I think it was iron) and it became considered some sort of super food until the mistake was discovered. (I read that in an old text book years ago so my memory of it is awfully unclear). I believe it inspired Popeye but I could be wrong.

The AC thing was a mention I read about Thomas Edison condemning AC current electrical systems as a public menace and getting the government to back him up on it for a while. Basically he said something to the effect that it was unmanageable, would start fires, etc. Supposedly he had it in for the guy who designed AC current motors because he didn't like the competition (again, my memory of this is somewhat sketchy)

Again though, what I'm trying to say is not so much that science has errors (everything has errors). I'm saying that this "no existence of psychic phenomenon" thing is an error and that scientists are already catching up to it but the general public is not. For example, many universities, corporations, & other groups have reported positive results in their tests to determine the existence of otherwise unexplainable phenomenon. Many theories have been put forward as to how these things work. Many members of skeptical groups have quit said groups because of percieved bias in the leadership of these groups and a focus on overzealous debunking rather than actual study.

Mainly, why do you trust the words of the people that you do regarding this issue? Why do you think psychic powers do not exist in this physical reality? What's the reason for them not to be able to exist?

Science always corrects its mistakes... eventually.
But obviously some people figure out the mistakes before they are corrected on paper or they would never be corrected at all.



No evidence? There is a considerable body of written material claiming to be evidence made by seemingly learned people, including scientists of universities, governments, and corporations coupled with a considerable amount of . What makes you disbelieve all those claims?



What's that supposed to mean?



Can you at least expound on this logic and give me a logical explanation?



So you're telling me Sony, several groups hired by the Russian, Chinese, Japanese and US governments, as well as a whole ton of universities are run by; or spend tons of money to conduct studies on; attention deprived adolescents?

http://www.sundayherald.com/33398 is this a hoax as well made by attention deprived adolescents?

Ultimately it comes down on how much we know...And what we do with what we know...But some things are very hard to know... Psychic powers is an extremely difficult thing in itself 2 explain and many people think that it exists in events that have occured through their lives or simply because its something different 2 believe in because life IS pretty boring if u really think about it.
I repeat myself, we DON'T know everything and therefore i don't think the possibility of psychic powers should be rules out. Just because we can't tell you exactly WHAT it is doesn't mean it doesn't exist...Once again...Like gravity we DON'T know what it IS but we know it exists. I just had a funny thought. Say that we are revolving around the sun (which we are) and the sun was suddenly taken away. Would we stop rotating around it instantly? But then that means that there IS something that HAS to move faster than the speed of light doesn't it?

We don't know everything and that is why we can't rule it out...

Here's another interesting article
http://amethodnotaposition.blogspot.com/20...proves-psi.html

Who do you believe and why?

proof is whack. Nothing can be really proven including the atom that split, yet it does.

only belief opens the door to the observer. Critics change nothing, progress continues anyway.

i believe is pyschic powers, i cant do them but i believe in them. So bring on the insults skeptics attack me with your words. skeptics are just computer nerds who get kicks by putting peoples beliefs on the floor and stamping on it. People who get beat up in school for say they can do pyschic powers haha dont make me laugh you couldnt possibley live in a worse place then me i live in liverpool people spend more time getting drunk than bothering with peoples beliefs in the pyschic plains lol

peace

Great post, I understand your point.

I'm one of those peope who has to see to believe, and that's mainly the reason I'm not a believer. I've seen one or two reasonably convincing web videos, but I'd need to see it first hand before I would even remotely come close to believing. It's not that I think there's a lack of evidence for them, it's just that I have seen very little of said evidence in practice. I would love to be proven wrong and shown that psi exitsts, honestly, but I'm not sure that that can be done over the Internet, which makes a lot of arguments on here futile to an extent. The cynics go on criticising and flaming, while the believers try to convince them that it's all real, to no avail.

I am no nerd. I am a skeptic pimp and I have the Escalade to prove it.
Sorry you live in a bad place. Really I am. That does not make psychic powers real.

So using your logic, women shouldnt be able to give birth because you, a man(if your profile is correct) cant give birth to a baby? I think your logic needs some work.

I believe that psychic abilities/phenomena exist (i have my reasons that i see as enough proof) but that science will most likely never be able to prove it with technology. There seems to be now way to measure, see, or obtain what ever drive these forces, like psi or chi or whatever you call it but how could some sort of of technology (that doesnt use chi/psi or something like that) capture a piece of this substance that is physical and at the same time ethereal. And without proof using our scientific technology or whatever, most people will just say it's false. Each side of this argument has a point that is as good as the other's.


Also just because i love to have debates, the best question i could think to ask a person who says they are psychic is, "Okay i am oing to make a new e-mail address and you , if you are psychic, will "go in my head" (or what ever you do) and you will then email me on that new one which only i know about. Then i will accept psychics to be real."

But i never really cared enough to go through with it, if any of you who are psychic want to prove it, i will try it.

EDIT: For spelling

Thank you.
I'm glad someone did at least.

I made this thread sort of as a reaction to people who are adamant in the belief that psychic powers don't exist because it can't, or because science says so, etc. etc. and just seem to like to pick on anyone who believes in such things, ridiculing them for no good reason. Certainly, many claimants don't know what they are talking about, but it really annoys me when someone asks a simple question and is flamed for it by someone who think he knows "The Truth".

Fair enough i respect other peoples opinions

Sorry to hurt your feelings but it is real I have done it before and I know that it was something else that caused it so don't say anything crack heads. You might not think it's real but this is for really people who do belive in it!

I, for one, am impartial to either TK or no TK. Yes, it would be "cool" if it existed, but I will remain rather skeptical until I have further proof. I will say, however, that anyone who claims that it is absolutely impossible will continue to believe that if they wish, even if there is blaring evidence. And to anyone who refuses to give up TK practice because it may work for them, kudos to you- I admire your perserverence and patience, that's hard to do. All I find irritating is when either of these opposing parties get together and start bickering- the whole argument is pointless, fruitless, and frankly, ridiculous. Often, neither one is open-minded enough to accept the other's opinion, and thus ensues a flame war where each person tries to find the most insulting thing to say to the other. Not productive, not helpful, and no fun. If you wish to believe in something, I wholeheartedly encourage you to, everyone has a right to their own belief- but pushing it on other people is often highly offensive, and there you go, the fight starts.

I understand where the skeptics are coming from, and I accept that they don't believe in it, and that's fine, it's all up to them. The skeptics that repeat over and over about how it does not exist are the problem.

I have no problem with the skeptics that simply say, "I don't believe it exists." The ones that state it does not exist, as if it were a fact, are the problem.

And by no means am I trying to force anything on you, Orro, but instead of waiting for evidence of telekinesis, why don't you practice some and get your own proof, whatever that may be?

Would you practice standing on one foot with edit in public just because i told you, that you would gain IQ levels ranging from 100 to 150 by it, or would you rather wait for someone to show you it actually was true before doing it ?

Please watch your language

At least practicing telekinesis wouldn't make you feel like a total moron if it didn't work, seeing as you can try it in private.

Edited for lagnuage. Please watch your language, that was out of line.

Hehe don't get all hostile at me now

I'm pretty openminded when it comes to all things, but i also know when to be more discreet in my openedness (like when im beeing fooled into believing crap, which open minded people are victims of most of the time)!

Good luck though i hope you succeed someday

I was only responding to what you wrote above, which came off to me as hostile. I'm sorry if I mistook it.

I'm like you in my openmindedness. I don't believe all the crap that comes my way, but I didn't immediately dismiss it. I at least tried some of it, and found that it works.

As for succeeding, I have, in a few areas. Psiballs, telepathy, and telekinesis. These were all very small feats, mind you.

Sorry I'm not claiming to have super powers like controlling the weather or something.

I've gone that route before.

And I assume it didn't work.

How long did you practice, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not going to lie... if I dont like you I won't respect your opinion one bit...


at least I'm honest!

Um... I don't... care?

Quite a while... a couple of years, about.

I wonder what you were doing wrong, seeing as most people get it in about a week.

No offense, but what is "most people" to you? Perhaps, if telekinesis works for some, maybe others don't have a propensity for it.
(If you like, we could carry on this conversation through PM)

I see no reason for not posting our conversation here - we're not arguing, we're discussing. If someone closes our post for that, they're mad with power and have lost sight of the goal of a message board - to let people discuss things.

By most people, I mean almost anyone. Almost everyone who has tried telekinesis with an open mind saw results in about a week, although some in a month.

For what it's worth, I believe that there IS such thing as psychic power because too many individuals display the power. For example, look at people like Sylvia Browne. She's extremely gifted, and I don't know what you'd call her "gifts" if they're not psychic. There are many psychics who assist the police, and then there are those who can see things that others cannot.

Only a matter of time before this is locked. This is going to go on forever as a "yes it is, no it isn't" kind of ordeal between skeptics and believers. If you believe it fine. If you don't more pwer to you, but dont have a pointless argument about it.

Were Orro and I arguing? No, we weren't.

Plus, if you're going to pin an argument on us, at least make it about the same subject. This is not the boring, old "it exists, doesn't exist", this is the "I tried and failed, well what did you try, I tried..." discussion.

I'll believe it when someone comes up to me a shows me.

What if a journal was published, and the story made the news, with footage from the lab and such?

What if you performed a "psychic" feat?

Just wondering.

I wasn't implying you two directly. To tell you the truth, I havent read anything on this post I just replied well, to the title and discription. So everythings good.

As I have stated before, in other posts, I am skeptical because I tried for over three years, and never saw results once. Untill it is proven by science, I'm not going to believe it is real.

I will believe it when someone comes up to me and proves it. If I do it, then you'll know.

Does Uri Geller's abilities proves anything? Psychokinesis is real.

Uri Geller bless his cotton socks is the biggest fake to ever walk this earth. I'm sure he's a great man and a loving family member but he's as skilled as a house brick. His spoon bending antics went berserk, the one and only reason people still give him any attention today.

Ask yourself a question...how many people own a clock/watch or any other timepiece that has stopped? I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands. Now ask yourself how many started when he made his infamous apeal on national TV - a few hundred? Not even that. That my friends is his biggest claim to fame.



I think you mistakingly typed "gifted" instead of filthy rich. She is nothing more than a charlatan preying on the vulnerable and making a huge buck in the process. Amazing how for someone who obviously enjoys the trappings of stradom she would walk away from a certain $1 million prize.

Actually it's not that surprising, she's not a medium and holds no psychic ability hence she avoided the challenge when she realised they were actually serious about testing her. Take a look at the randi.org homepage. I believe there is a timer still clocking up the days as we speak.

Thats 100 percent true. Theres so many goddamn threads about peoples heads exploding and stuff

That's evidence.

Evidence is not proof, it's evidence, nothing more nothing less. You then take that evidence and analize it to see if it warrants further attention. There is a huge difference between evidence and proof.

I make no mention of it being genuine, I took it for granted that nobody would be so foolish as to believe he actually bends metal objects with nothing more than the power of his delluded mind.