I do, i dont know about Durnut... but probly.

America is full of jerks

Apparently. Yeesh.

no u wouldent because they cant do that even if they wanted ..u guys think that their sometype of X-Men and there not there kids some adults they can move anything bigger then a book or chair thats it if that. peopel that can read minds can only hear what others think and sometimes they just think the same thing they dont know unless the other person says what they where thinking...we r people just like u and anyone else wheather u believe or not i odnt care I just want u to understand that we cant do all the things u think we can it is not that easy. we cant seat buildings on fire or pick up little kids and through them across the room..we wish who does't but we cant so stop thinking like that and come down from where ever u r ...and say well if there where people that could do this?...could they really seat a house on fire in one thought or can they puch a bolder out the way..the answer is no they cant they they can move a pin or seat a pice of paper on fire thats about all. just because it sounds impossible does't mean it is

so how is it so possible ..that just proves that everyone cant just up and learn it it is not that easy

no offence but how do u know how hard he tryed ...how does he know he really does't u cant just wake up and say I want to lear something ..and I understand u where at it for four years but when I decided to listen to my self my inter self and let go then I prayed for it and about 3 mounths later it happened..not to say u believe in god but

Frosty....

Do I really have to quote the rules to you? Your remarks are uncalled for.

Incidentally anyone have copies of:
1. Hands of light, Barbara Ann Brennan
2. Possibility of the experimental studies of the properties of time, Joint Publications Research Service, Dept of Commerce May 2, 1968
3. Durov & his preforming animals, Dvinsky E., Foreign Language Press
4. Radiation from Organisms, Krmessky, Journal of Parapsychics Volume 3.
?

um... no

Wow. All this flaming burns. My opinion? I think that we, skeptics and believers alike, should just lay off making threads about proving/disproving these abilities. It's just going to cause more problems. Sad to see this forum is becoming more and more of a mosh pit.

Sorry. I'll try to refrain from making any new ones.

Just wanted to get a debate going.

No, that just proves no one can do it.




I tried with every bit of heart and soul I had

that was creepy

Hahah, fool..Skeptic one at that..

Why would say that? Not everyone knows about psionics, Wayfaerer and so that would be the fact why "everyone" in this "world" isn't doing it, because they haven't got into it or ether plain isn't just into it at all, why do you contemplate "what is real? what is not?" why do you not ask yourself "have I researched this? have I even experienced this?" and such other, before you go on making neutral facts onto such things, which I am sure you haven't researched anything deeply to your sightings, though I do see you want this "proof" of something and not all the time proof is going to be there for alot of people but the question to you and alot of others is "Is your mind that frail? Are you that conciously neutral and frantic?" where you need straight imagery and hierarchy to be pinpointed in a direct order of understanding something? then though their is a such thing as to walk your own path without direct specifics to guide you all the time.

Don't be simple.
Yet stupid, there is enough of people in this world that are already.


-MoBC

Actually what the skepical person said is true. Sorry it passed over your head.

I do think there is such a thing as psychic experiences because I have now had three in my lifetime. I have related one these experiences in the ghost forum and will provide the others within the next few days as my time is limited right now. It would indicate there are few psychic experiences as there are few reported on these boards. However, as mine were clear as a bell, I do believe they exsist, though happen rarely .

How can you just go by experiencing it, and haven't researched it? In other words you experienced something you are just guessing at what it is and don't barely have a clear clue on what event has just happened, why don't you research and look into things more as they tend to appear? Rather than pointing aspects..

Research and study these sites people.. Otherwise when you finish with these use another.

www.psionguild.org
www.psipog.net
www.vsociety.net
www.angelfire.com/mi3/tomekeeper/types/magecraft.html

Those sites aren't scientifically validated. They mean a bunch of nothing.

Why am I surprised it takes short moment to produce arrogance?

Scientifically Validated...

Must every that comes across occult be scientifically validated? Don't be simple. Common Sense please. Common Sense use it and don't be so dual minded, use your head not anothers approval appendance.

Actually. To be simple would be to believe anything without proof. Thats simple.
I use my head. I am logical. I don't know about you.

Actually I don't need anyone in my face or to show me anything for me to be into something I turn interest in, I take it into my own research and timing to study it rather than to look of this "proof" to accelerate in which I share interest of.

You're only limiting yourself by doing that, and I get it you're being optical but there are many blind sides to being logical, and that one I am afraid you haven't known of yet..

Logical builds spaceships. Your unproven beliefs do nothing but keep you occupied. I did my share of trying to believe in these things when I was younger. Then I grew up.

Heh, and what did you read? anything by what you say "logical" about them? or just did you go by what they had on tv and by dividing what you can do from stage tricks?

For 5 years I read everything on magic and psychic powers and tried to accomplish it. Guess what. Nothing happen. Nothing happens for anyone. Maybe you can fool yourself.

heh, it will never work for people like you of course, lead by self-delusion and artifical comtemplation. I guess not truely.

Though like they say.. To eachs own.

Self delusion. It fits you. I don't believe I have powers. I am not deluded. I do love temptation in the form of money.

Hahaha it's funny how you call them "powers", wouldn't the logic call them "abilities"?

Unproven and fantastical. In other words non existent.

You amaze me..

Have you ever read about Aleister Crowley? Or does he need approval by scientist as well?

Actually I have. I loved his works. They don't work though. I tried following his path. I have tried black magic. Summoning. Witchcraft. Psychic powers. etc. Sorry man. Been there done that. Guess what none of it works. It never has for anyone. I actually think Aleister was insane, but interesting and his syphilis did not help.He died a pauper. So much for his magic.

Hah.. Because he has gone about magick for a very long time possibly very long time way before you even thought of it at an age he did, and anyways why follow? Why not create and own your own path? Why would you mirror? Where you that faint when it came to self-empowerment?

Cause none of it works. Come on man get a grip. I will buy you a plane ticket to fly to where I live for you to show me actual true magic. If you can the trip is free, if you can't show me something real. Then you pay for your ticket. Talk is cheap. I created my on path. Its called reality. I came from poverty and became successful. Thats creating a path.

You would do all that for a simple amusement of mine?

Yeah, that's great man. Everything you just said has no basis in reality to me; I have no reason to believe your tripe. You think calling me a fool is going to sway me? You just sound like a turd whose gone all 'holier than thou' saying you are one of these elite few who have psychic abilities. Self-empowerment through the power of baseless beliefs.
Ironically, it would be even more consciously neutral for me to say "Wow, this Magicain dude said it's true, so it must be! Oh the humanity!"
You even say yourself 'proof isn't always gonna be there,' How convenient. That only leaves blind faith in psychic abilities; sign me up!
Just because you are happy to believe this dribble based on some guys words in an occult book doesn't make your views any more valid than mine. That's getting sucked in, my friend, which shows no more stength of mind than being skeptical.

Sod off.

I would do it to prove you wrong. Thats worth alot.

Yet, again but I don't mind shooting another arrogant wanderer out the clear blue...

I am not trying to say what I am or who I am Wayfaerer, nether am I trying to sound or point something unlike you are, so please head your sly infant insult elsewhere till they make sense.

Arrogant. My friend you are dripping with arrogance. Check yourself

Dear dear me....

P.M's pending.

Really wish you wouldn't make me get all nasty.

What, These powers dont exist and energy isn't everything, our world was not based on this concept of creating enrgy and using it.

We have real, we are 2 dimensoinal and where there is difference there is infinity, What ever created us doesnt know that or does.

When or if someone was ever to create themselfs, to manipualte all life and reality it would of been allready introduced to anything that exists.

Ha ha what the f***, these words are a creation and they hurt but christ.
You cannot imagine what time has to bring, can you feel it

You couldn't do it therefore no one can?

Keep it civil people. Calling someone "delusional", "fool", or "stupid" won't help and will actually hurt your case.

Logical arguments please.

It's alright Kibble a moderator has dealt to it.

Talking about beating a dead horse.....

If people were trully interested in proving the paranormal they would have presented some sort of undeniable proof so far. Unfortunately this subject falls in the probable (or UFO) category and anyone that thinks differently needs a reality check.

I had a whole lot of nothing happen for me.




Baisically, yes. I tried and tried, therefore it proved to me that I was trying to believe in nothing. If I spent as much time on school, as I did on psi, I most likely would have been in college for free.

Just reading books and trying a few suggestions will not get you psychic.
Five years aint nothing. I have been reading traveling and speaking with people and witnesses and experienced first hand the many abilities of psychics.
I have personnaly seen the awards police have handed out to successful psychics. I have personnaly witnessed telekinesis performed under controlled conditions.
I have been involved in this phenomena for over 40 years. The phenomena is genuine. However to the hardcore-armchair skeptic... there will never be enough proof. And they certainly will not travel to find out either. The soul can not be seen, so they can' believe in that either!
If you are not at all psychic, but want to be. You must first discipline your mind. There are many books on meditation and mental discipline. Failure is almost certain without mental discipline.
Take weightlifting for example. If you have not done it, you can not just cold turkey expect to bench press 500# first try. The mind can be compared to muscle. The more you work it, the stronger it becomes.
Some people are naturally strong...mentally too. Take for example memory. Some people have incredibly long detailed memories, some can perform incredible mathematics in their head, still others are natural artistic geniuses. There are many that have learned these talents.

^^ well put

Scientist at one time said the world was flat, then they said it was at the center of the universe, some said it was impossible for man to build a flying machine, and this goes on and on, so why would I need some scientist to validate what I experience?

Most "paranormal" experiences can be explained by natural phenomena, a few cannot, science loves things that are repeatable and consistant, if they can tag a mathmatical formula on it then its real.

many of these same scientist admit that that things like other dimensions can very well exists, but our little 3 dimensional minds lack the ability to even imagine how these dimensions can react with the ones our limited bodies can perceive. so how will a present day scientist "confirm" the reality of an experience thats mine?

If one day I 'm able to bend a spoon in my fingers with just the power of intention and no physical force, no scientist will be able to put a formula on that, and they wont be able to repeat it in a lab, people around me will just say its slight of hand, or acid whatever, since they have no logical way of processing that even they just reject it as a hoax.

When someone has a premonition of a disaster, where they give the name, place and details of the event and they come true, many will just shrug their shoulders and just say it was a lucky guess, or "cooincidence" even though the odds are billions to one, science has a hard time explaining why some people consistatly get higher than avg. at guessing the Zener cards. again they just call it chance, after all they dont get it 100% all the time, but over all a group of people will make the correct "guess" higher than the odds would allow for chance. and how will science prove why some are "better" guessers than others?

I don't jump like Micheal Jordan, do you really think that by reading books, and practicing I will ever beat him, I doubt it, I just dont have his "genes". and not everyone will have psychic abilities to the levels where they are a bit useful.

If you have studied how the mind works you may discover how much it filters out what we see everyday, we only process about 25% of all the sensory input that comes into our minds, the rest is filtered out, blocked or even changed. what we "see" of our world is determined greatly by our minds, and how we are brought up, the "hard wiring" is important. a person born blind because of defective eyes, will remain blind, even if his eyes have been replaced by those that can "see" simply because his brain never developed those areas. the same can be said of psychic abilities, seems most psychic abilities run in families, or are brought on by some child hood event, which seems to have sparked the development of those abilities.

So no matter how much the blind man with "new eyes" tries to see, no matter how much he studies the subject of seeing, he will never see.

Imagine a planet where the inhabitants dont have Eyes, millions of people going about their lives, maybe they use sonar or tactile sensors to navigate around their world, now imagine that every now and then someone is born with eyes, and they can "see" their world in a completly different way, what do you think the others will say when the "seeing" dude says he can see shades, and colors, puffy white things in the sky, little blinkie white things when the sun goes down? yep they will most likely say hes making these things up, or a phoney.

Speaking of colors, colors dont exist by the way, they are interpretations our brain uses to distinguish different waves lengths of light, our brain constantly makes "interpretations" of things, if its something it doesnt understand it will try to transform it into something the mind can "crunch". so when someone "sees" a flying saucer for example, its posible that its something that is so beyond our minds ability to dicypher, that its the "best thing" its able to come up with, this would explain that as society changes through the ages, so has the shape of the UFOs, the more complex the society, the more complex the UFO.

So its very posible that two different witnesses experiencing an event can have two different accounts, and they are both right!.

I have "ended" 3 discusions on this I know of with below content.....so again :

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

information at : http://www.randi.org/research/index.html



The money is there , someone go get it and show us these abilities are real , and heck , make a million dollars while doing it.....

Yes , this is true....1 million dollars , God ,I wish I were had parabormal abilities

You're going to have to do better than that.

What you don't say is that you require money in order to submit to the test..... (dirty market money hugging pigs...)

That, and nothing shown will ever be accepted, because there will always be ways to fake it-even if the individual is not.

Quite a contradiction and one repeated by Randi himself when I was fortunate enough to speak with him.

You say they do not involve themselves in the testing then say they design the protocol and conditions under which the test is to be taken. I'd say that's a fair old bit of involvement myself, wouldn't you?

Perhaps if an independant body seperate from the foundation where set up and they had total control over the test - the protocol, conditions and ultimately the results. After all, the prize money is what JREF are famous for, surely a test conducted by trusted bodies would suffice?

I remeber seeing a guy who scored above average in a live test on TV, to anyone interested in this field it should be enough to warrant further investigation. That's not to say he passed, but he did enough to warrant further analysis of his claims. what was Randi's reaction?

"Where do you think you failed?"

How's that for bias?

When I asked him what is deemed as a pass he told me there is no criteria, you either pass or you don't. To say his definition of a pass was vague is putting it mildly.

I'm a skeptic, do I trust the Foundation's test? Nope.