There are no such things as psychic powers because...?

What's your rationale?

A total lack of legitimate evidence, the questionable people who claim to these powers (they are either kids, socially reclusive teenagers, or hillbillies) and even without all that, I have no reason to believe in them. If they existed we'd be sure by now. You'd see kids everywhere manipulating fire and teenagers going "Carrie" on their school, tearing sh*t up with their minds.

nicely worded my friend

So you believe these powers cannot exist?

Thanks Bosanchero. I'll bet we'll soon see replies from these kids who claim to have powers, along the lines of: "Ur rong, I do have tellakineesis...!1!"

Yes Kibbles, I believe they cannot exist. Perhaps with a few million years of evolution after we lose all our motor skills after an asteroid impact, we will have reason to move things with our minds rather than with our bodies.

The real question is for the people who claim to have psychic powers:

"I am a telekinetic superhero because...?

What's your rationale?"


...


...


...Does a lack of rationale count?

At least skeptics have reasons to believe what they do, these other people only believe this stuff because they know it would be cool if they did exist, and cling to that empty hope.

I'm asking because I believe these things to exist (though not in the mainstream "I'm a psychic way"), have actually gone around my local area doing some tests and experiments, have seen some really strange crap, and wish to understand how so many people are hostile to the idea rather than simply impartial.

What would count as legitimate evidence?

I for one know these powers don't exist, only because I practiced for a few years with every intent of making progress. All it did was humiliate me. I would get beat up for it at school and outside of school. But I would always go back home, say to myself i'll prove them all wrong, and continue practicing. I never got anywhere with it. Thats when I started to realize how stupid it really seemed.

My experiences have been vastly different from yours. What exactly did you try to do?

Kibbles: Legitimate evidence could be many things. If some kid punched me in the face with a wall of psychic energy, for instance. Or one well documented study of this phenomena from an impartial viewpoint on many idividuals, that has findings other than "These people are delusional turds."

The reason why I tend to react with 'hostility' towards these claims is that the incessant stupidty grates me. Its like people who think the earth is flat; you wanna punch them in the throat for being so blatantly idiotic. They say they have powers? Go do something newsworthy, like saving someone from being burned alive in a house fire with your pyrokinesis.

But of course, a turd leopard can't change it's spots, so nothing ever happens.


Saying you have supernatural powers is plain arrogance, an ego trip. An excuse to distinguish yourself in a wild turdstorm.


Edit: I have edited your post as that comment is not suitable. Many of these people who makes these claims are underage.

About what?

Without physical sensory there is no physical world for ones mind?
Some people fail, because they are made to.
Everyone has these so called powers, they just dont realise it because of things called school, words, coincidences, etc.
The evidence is yourself, some people are unnatural to these things it is sad, as animals are though and they are not humans.


Durnut the only reason you failed is because you gave up and you still go to school.

Simple here it is, you live inside your own paradime, your mindset and yourself can be considered as one dimension or world, without real there is no false reality, you are god but god made himself and i asure you, you beleive you came from your mom. Now none of this stuff would be easy, is college easy? is getting laid easy? yes and no.
there are plenty of ways to altar your so called life, although what this post is about is almost like being a cheater in life. you can do anything your mind can understand, you just have to find the way.
We are all life on this planet but we are tricked to look different, act different, its like teaching a bird math, or teaching a human to fly.
this is the concern, you change the life you change the reality, once your in there is no out.

If every human had supernatural powers, then you would not have dreams, it would be incomprehendable.

No, the reason I gave up is because, after almost four years of torment, with nothing to show, the whole idea just became appalling. Honestly, I can say I tried, I spent alot of time on it, and showed nothing for the time I spent on it, and now, I don't believe in it. For good reason too.
P.S. I don't "still go to school".

There is something to be learnt from Durnut's experiences. He tried, believed in what he was doing fully, and in the end it proved to fruitless. To say that he didn't 'have the gift' or whatever is not only a cop-out answer, but insensitive.

Just because you believe something doesn't always make it true, hell, it sometimes makes you insane. I could convince myself that it's possible to walk the surface of the sun while drinking a cold martini, but I'd still end up being reduced to a crispy collection of atoms in space.

Durnut have you ever had a fever?
If so when you have had it, have you become delusional, like hallucinate even.
If you have had a fever and you just feel sick then yes you probly will never gain skill.

Still even if you are a person that have had no success you can still live.

These things exist and it is scary how simple they are.

Supernatural or more like a neverending trick.

Take a look at quantum physics, people who study this are dumbasses, quantum physics was made to trap people not to understand the basics of the universe. Einstein didnt try to find the equation of everything he tricked people into studieing what he made up.

I don't believe TK exists. I've never seen any proof of it and have heard too many stories like Durnut's. While I'm open-minded to the possibility, I remain highly, highly skeptical. I guess it's just one of those things that if you believe, you have to try yourself to convince yourself it's not possible. If I ever were to see legitimate evidence, I'd be the first to come to the defense of any TK enthusiast on here.

Yes, I have had a fever, infact the highest fever I had was 104.3. Yes, I did hallucinate, that has nothing to do with t/k. Of course I can still live, infact i live better now then I did when I was practicing t/k.

Quantum double exsperiment, proved we collapse wave functions, reality does not exist without life.
Those hallucinations can become real or those hallucinations can become there hallucinations.
That aint no pk Edited: Swearing is inappropriate. Please don't do it again.

This is not a Telekinesis of any kind, this is a trick that your mind can perform and mix into infinity, maybe you should of learned about hypnosis or mentalism or acctually trained your body and mind before you gave up.

Click Here

well... thats a BS awnser...uve been the most dilusional one here.... ur quantum physics "facts" are mostly BS as well...

if durnut tried it, than im willing to give him the credit for it, if he tried it, and found no reason for it to be real, then i belive him--its better than hanging on to dillusions of power

people have different expierences, and people have different threasholds for whar they accept as a fact... i have done things that i accept as fact(at least i hope...) but i cannot say the same for everybody elce. you "psions" hold onto psionics like the born again christians do to the bible--you'll defend it to the end of the earth...and half of you will quote false information to defend it...

1) Billions upon billions of human beings have existed, yet not a single one has had any powers.
2) Whilst not much is known about the mind, it is known that it cannot do anything to affect the physical world without the use of the body (i.e. you cannot move a pencil without using your hands/feet/etc.).
3) A total lack of proof supporting it's existance.
4) A failiure of anyone with "powers" to be tested.
5) People who claim to have powers normally are: young/uneducated/crazy/lying/con artists/making money off it somehow.
6) Everything that we know so far goes against the existance of any "powers"
7) Nature would have endowed us with "powers" if they existed (it would be convenient, from an evolutionary point of view, not to have to waste calories growing limbs when it is possible to move things with the mind).
8) Nature hasn't endowed any living creature with "powers".
9) "Powers" are useless, there is no reason that anyone should have them.

Nice thread.

Haha, that was great...

Seriously though, Wombat made some good points. Awesome bro.

There. A moderator just answered your question.

people with these abilitys, most likely wouldnt tell other people about it. sh** i know people who Wont tell anyone about obes, simply for the fact that its crazy, you leave your body, go around...and come back -_-
psion, however its spelt, is just the manipulation of chi. loosing ANY type of body fluid, takes chi away. dont listin to other people, find your own proof, dont take anything as definite, as soon as you do, you close somthing off.

1) Billions upon billions of human beings have existed, yet not a single one has had any powers.

And where did you come by this data? PSi has been investigated the world over, and has been proven to exist, is it 100% consistant? nope, thats why its not all that reliable.
there are dozens upon dozens of police departments that use Psychics as a last recourse on "dead end"cases, these psychics sometimes draw blanks, other times they are able to point in the direction of buried weapons and bodies, they sometimes "see" how the crime was commited or even help police draw up a sketch of the criminal.
Psychics can only assist in criminal investigation they cannot use psychics in court because they are not 100% accurate. A psychic can help police in finding evidence, but its the evidence not convicts the criminal not the psychic.

Polygraphs are about 95% accurate, they work, but not all the time, and are not admissable in court either.

2) Whilst not much is known about the mind, it is known that it cannot do anything to affect the physical world without the use of the body (i.e. you cannot move a pencil without using your hands/feet/etc.).

TK is rare, I personally know it works because of personal experience, you know that if you try to explain the color "red" to a blind man, he wont be able to imagine it no matter what you say, until you see it, you wont know its real. (i know "Red" is just a frequency of visual energy that the brain interprets to be "red")

3) A total lack of proof supporting it's existance.

Interesting, I guess thats why the the US Gov, and those of many other countries did serious research into it, and found it so useful that that they set up "remote viewers", which was used for decades. Again, like the psychics that the police use, they werent 100% accurate, if you had 3 out of 5 RV that feel they see some hidden base behind some mountain in Siberia, the military still needs to confirm, sometimes it a miss sometimes its a hit, but the odds of getting something right is astronimical and off the charts.

4) A failiure of anyone with "powers" to be tested.

Kind of a repeat of the same, yes its been tested and proven, over and over again, so much so that there is no need to try and "prove" that exists, what is being done, is testing those that claim to have psychic abilities, to seperate the wanna be's and phonies from that actually know their stuff, and like everything else, soome are better than others,
heck, not many people on earth can run a 3-minute mile, to say it cant be done just because you personally cant do it, or anyone you know is just silly assumptions.

5) People who claim to have powers normally are: young/uneducated/crazy/lying/con artists/making money off it somehow.

There are con artist in every field on earth, and plenty of phonies in the Psi field, thats why there are researchers that are testing these so called psychics, needless to say most wont get "tested" but the real ones do, and there are some shining stars.

Some psychics or those with PSI powers of some sort, have actually helped others free of charge, they feel its their duty to use these "gifts" to help others, some charge some dont. and many are rip off artists (the fakes)

7) Nature would have endowed us with "powers" if they existed (it would be convenient, from an evolutionary point of view, not to have to waste calories growing limbs when it is possible to move things with the mind).

It would be cool if we could fly too, be quicker to get places, but humans dont have wings, so by your logic, the power of flight is impossible.

Humans are still evolving, our bodies, and brains are changing and will continue to change through the Eons to come. maybe from a survival standpoint its not necessary that EVERYONE have these powers, only just a few in each community, this is seen in the animal kingdom, where certain critters are specialized in something to benefit the hive, den , or whatever.

8) Nature hasn't endowed any living creature with "powers".

Nature hasnt endowed any living creature except humans with the ability to do math either, so using your logic again, since animal cant do math, math ability must not exist.
by the way there are thousands of stories of Animals sensing danger, etc. Dogs sensing that something has happened to their masters at a distance, horses that refuse to go across a bridge just before it collapses.

9) "Powers" are useless, there is no reason that anyone should have them.

Thats funny, this contradicts your #7

7) Nature would have endowed us with "powers" if they existed (it would be convenient, from an evolutionary point of view, not to have to waste calories growing limbs when it is possible to move things with the mind).


The benefits are so many, no way i could list them all, they have already proven useful in police investigations, archeology (yes buried buildings have been discovered useing psychics), healing (this isnt faith based, as in double blind tests, the targets didnt know if they were being targeted or not, those that were, showed results those that werent, stayed the same). and of course there is useing powers to predict or prevent disasters.

As to how this can happen, do some reading on Quantum Physics, and hollographic universe theories.

Princeton has been doing some interesting research "The Global Consciousness Project"
http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

instead of humans, they use computers to random generate numbers, these "eggs" to generate random numbers, but if they become a bit less "random" they register, these scores are monitored, what they have found is that before major world events, these eggs become less random, the interesting thing, is that they do this BEFORE the event happens!

Its easy to see what you want to see, or close your eyes to what you dont want to see.

So you do not believe in the legitimacy of the studies done on Nina Kugalina by the Soviets during the cold war or on the results of Japan's ESPER program? And because of a whole bunch of idiots going "I'm psychic!" you have ruled out that other people may have these capabilities?

Well said, do you have any links to these studies?

Well, first off I didn't get beaten up.
Also, basically, I didn't come up with nothing. As I understand, some of what I tried worked.
Why'd you get beaten up?

What?

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying but I don't think you know enough about Durnut to make judgements about him.

Kibbles: I've never come across this ESPER program you spoke of.

As for the Nina Kulagina studies, while they are somewhat compelling, I have reserved my belief in them. A lot of the footage I've seen of her isn't the best quality and one cannot fully see what is going on. The whole thing may have been an elaborate hoax in order to make the Soviets seem like they had a one-up on the United States, scaring them into thinking they had an army of psychic soldiers being trained up. Who knows for sure?
It was quite a long time ago, today we have much more advanced technology at our disposal. A modern day study on her would've been fascinating.

And all those idiots going "I'm psychic!" do little to add to the credibility of the phenomena as a whole.

Frankly I'm interested in the research you have carried out. What kind of data have you collected so far?

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH..... I'm sorry I think that my brain just did a back flip.

I think that it is safe to say that we all shine a bit less brightly for having read the above comment

Wait so all I need to do to become a successful psion and member of the X-Men is to drop out of school? Oh man now I wish my parents hadn't taught me how to talk because words are also a disadvantage. With my luck next you will tell me that clear and rational thinking is another weakness!

Your theory on quantum physics can not hold water, you see I am visualizing very hard that you are a Doberman pincer, but if you were a Doberman pincer then you could not post there fore you are not a Doberman pincer and that means that my mind does not control my reality.

I have a question. When you say "The evidence is yourself, some people are unnatural to these things it is sad, as animals are though and they are not humans." do you mean that animals are sad because they are not human, or that they are evidence because they are not human, or possibly that they are natural because they are not human?

Can you teach me how to fly? Your post makes it sound like you can. I would like to learn that trick. Finally, why would we stop dreaming if people spontaneously gained super powers?

i must say, beautiful post gilgamesh

the thing with the russians is they were always tryint to stay in step with the other world powers, and they were willing to do anything to stay there-or even get ahed. they even stole the original apple computer plans and built one. luckily, apple had put in extra completly unneded screws so that they could find out of anybody did this... needless to say, the russians were universally humiliated

Life is not a movie: grow up and get over it: you do not have psychic powers.

And you know this because...?


This is a fact because...?
Can you site an objective study that proves this?


What would you consider supporting proof?
Explain how the human body can naturally spontaneously recover from terminal illness without proper medicine as documented by pharmacists in the placebo effect.


As I understand, several studies have shown postitive results.


How does one tell if one of these people is actually the real deal or not?


What do we know?


Male mammals still have nipples. Panda's are herbivores with digestive systems better suited for carnivores. Why would nature have endowed us with anything in particular?
Also, is telekinesis the only form of psychic ability you count?


How do we know this?


I don't understand the reasoning behind this statement.


You can thank my lack of things to do while my PC processes high resolution graphics files.

What kind of proof are you talking about? Could you give me a link or something? The existence of solid, believable proof from a reliable source is new to me.

That is very interesting. How often is a psychic able to give accurate information about a crime, and how accurate and specific is this information? Could you provide me with an example?


What was your experience, may I ask?


During the cold war both the US and Soviet governments went to great, desperate and experimental lengths to gain the upper hand. Could you again, provide me with information about these “remote viewers”, and how accurate they were?


What kind of “powers” are you talking about, what kind of experiments were conducted, who were they conducted by, what kind of results were obtained and what kind of explanations were given?

What shining stars are you talking about? Again, what kind of “powers” are you talking about, what kind of experiments were conducted, who were they conducted by, what kind of results were obtained and what kind of explanations were given?


How on earth does my logic insinuate that flight is impossible?

Yes, we are evolving, but we will not evolve to pick up things with our mind because it is a physical impossibility.

And how are these “powers” necessary for survival? Humans have been around for tens of thousands of years without them, what’s the sudden need?

Do you think that a human, born and raised in the wild could do maths? It is something we learn, not something that we are born with.

Animals are born with the natural ability to perceive changes in the environment and interpret them, it isn’t anything supernatural. If it was supernatural, you would be contradicting yourself over point 8


You have a mouth, legs, arms, hands and fingers. You can use them to do everything you need to survive during your entire life. You can move, you can communicate, and you can interact with your environment.

What do you need powers for? You don’t, they are useless.


If this was true, how come virtually no one (and nothing) has these powers?


Interesting and somewhat unbelievable. I will read about it.

Honestly, what I want to see the existence of powers. I truly and honestly do.

Honestly, I don't want to go off topic. If you would like to know about what happend to me and why, please feel free to pm me and ask away. I will be more than happy to tell you what happend.

There is no well documented and proven case of paranormal abilities.

However, you are right, not all cases could have possibly been documented.

Well we know that to move an object, you have to apply a force onto that object.
We know that to communicate with other humans, we must talk, write, use body language, facial expressions, etc.
We know how fire works.
We know how water freezes.
We know how weather works.
Etc., etc..

We know that the mind is just tissue with electrochemical and magnetic activity, which ceases working when dead.

We know that electrochemical and magnetic activity cannot cause any of the above mentioned things to happen.

I would consider something proof if it explained how the mind can do anything to manipulate the physical environment or communicate with other humans without the use of the body.

Just because something cannot be explained yet does not mean that it is paranormal. It might be, but the lack of evidence of one thing cannot be used as evidence of another.


Really? Do you mind posting some information on it?

By testing them. Encouragements include USD 1 Million prizes for anyone that proves to truly possess paranormal abilities. As far as I know, no one has proven anything yet.

It is impossible to list all that we know here, but what I mean is that all we have found out about physics so far show that psychic abilities should not exist. *points at post 2*

I don’t know about pandas, but male mammals have nipples because apparently in the early stages of a fetus’s development, the fetus is preparing to be a female before hormones change all that during later stages. Something vaguely along those lines at least.

Evolution always seeks the most efficient form of doing things. Too many resources spent on unnecessary functions might end in the extinction of that species.

When talking about evolution, I consider telekinesis and telepathy, as these would make the existence of limbs and any kind of communication mechanisms redundant.

We know that living things don’t have powers because they need limbs/wings/fins/etc. to move around, interact with the environment and feed, and they communicate physically.

Seriously, what would you need powers for? Are they somehow vital for survival?

I don't have any decent online links detailing the Nina Kulagina stuff but I'm not that good at searching the net. I read about her in some books and will look for the references later.
Here's a link about her in any case:
http://www.siivola.org/monte/papers_groupe...oviet_Union.htm
Unfortunately, it's not that great.

As for Sony's psychic project, it was on a newspaper I read quite a while back.
All the links I can find now are rather crummy.
http://headlines.nerdworld.com/modules.php...int&sid=111
I seem to recall some better links some time ago.

I'll try to get more on them but they'll probably be hard copy references.

Here's an interesting site though
http://www.issc-taste.org/index.shtml

Ok. Well, lets see. I had an interest in the unusual ever since I could remember but I only started really experimenting with it in college, primarily because most of my old friends were in other schools and I had nothing to do inbetween the long breaks of my crappy schedule.

I tried some simple dice experiments trying to get high rolls (micro TK) after hearing about some brittish studies. I'd count how many times I could get a 4-6 on a roll and it was usually around 60% (Exact figures buried somewhere in a box at home). Then I tried rolling a 1,2,3,4,5,6 on 6 dice. I believe on I got 3 successful rolls on 22 attempts.

Then I started studying some old books on pranic healing and auric sight. After some time, I started trying to test if what I was seeing was merely self delusion. I found that I could reliably cause migraines, and numbness in the joints whether or not they actually knew what I was trying to do. I also seemed able to heal people with minor ailments like muscle pains, sprains, sore eyes, etc. (Though i'm not entirely sure of my success rate with this)

Later I attempted to make a healing device using those orgone healing things you so often find on the net. I couldn't find all the materials I needed so I substituted whatever I didn't have with something more readily available. Apparently, I messed the whole thing up because the device caused weakness, discomfort, and severe headaches in those nearby. Naturally, I decided to test it on hapless folk without a clue about what I was doing. It worked.

I did a lot of other nonsense, some successful, some not (such as an attempted seance on halloween). My friends are satisfied that what I do is real and that's enough for me.

Do I have powers beyond the norm? I don't think so. I think anyone could do this if they tried and they knew what they were doing.

(Of course I could just be lying but there's no way for me to prove i'm not over the internet)

Really? Prove it

We don't need to prove these powers don't exist. It is you who should be trying to prove they are real.

You're making a statement about someone you don't know who is probably half way across the world with nothing to back it up. Can't you prove it logically then?

I'm sorry you took my post so personally. By "you" I mean all believers. I dont need to prove anything, due to the fact that there is a lack of proof supporting the "reality" of t/k. With this, I conclude my statement. T/k may be real in the minds of those who believe, as it was with me. In reality, t/k is a dilusion that allows people to slip out of the reality of life. Why allow yourself to believe in false hope? Why allow yourself to lose your grip of reality?

Therefore psychic powers do not exist? There once weren't any decently documented cases of meteors or of fossils. There's plenty of documentation now. So, what's your criteria for well documented and proven?


Ok. We know these things more or less, though most scientists would also like to know more about them than is already understood.


There is considerable debate on this issue as well as some studied conducted.


So Freezing, combustion, and the paths of large amounts of molecules have nothing to do with chemical and magnetic activity?


An explanation isn't a proof.


In essence, once something is understood it is no longer considered paranormal. What I am talking about is the existence of these things currently classified as psychic abilities. I think there was this book called "Hands of Light" or something like that.


I was thinking about trying that but if you actually read the fine print you'll find that the testers have full control of the criteria in that particular challenge. They can legally change the test requirements on a whim and there have been some complaints about that. In otherwords, it's a fixed game.


Psychic abilities are simply unaccounted for. The fact that a scientific formula or model does not take something into account does not mean that something does not exist. It means the model or formula is incomplete


Evolution doesn't "seek" anything. Mutations are the work of chance. Those that happen to have beneficial mutations have a tendency to survive. Some adaptations are good enough to make up for detrimental or pointless mutations. The platypus for example is a funny looking egg-laying marupial with poisoned spurs and a duck-like bill. There are considerably more efficient forms.

I'm not personally offended. This is more of something I do with my spare time. My life and self worth do not hang on this supposed ability nor my grip on sanity.

I'm merely pointing out that you know next to nothing about me and yet are making a statement about me and my capabilities (or those of a gazillion folks out there you've never met). You should back it up or at least follow your own logic and tell me why I do not have these powers.

Granted. I never said I knew a thing about you. Yes I am making a statement, which I'm allowed to do, about t/k. I never once said anything about you personally. "By "you" I mean all believers". My own logic tells me that, "Steve, you spent almost 4 years practicing this. What do you have to show for it? Not a damned thing, that's what." I was beaten for what I believed in. Do you know how many times my head was shoved in the toilets at school? The water wasn't exactly clean either, if you catch my drift. Do you realize what kind of emotional and mental damage that caused me? It didn't exactly make me a happy person. Throughout those years, I never once had anyknind of result. So with my own expierements, I proved to myself that t/k doesn't exist. If you have had results, great, prove me wrong. Show me some proof. Untill then, I refuse to believe you, or any other x-men wannabe kid here, have any kind of ability.

Either
1) You are a child, stupid and normal
or
2) You are an adult, stupid with anxiety

Ok. Can't prove anything until I meet you face to face but I'm just saying, you seem to disbelieve in these powers simply because you personally could not use them, ruling out the possibility that anyone else can. Do you really think you were the most likely person to succeed at what you were doing? If so, then why?

... You've just called me stupid. Wonderful.

Please explain how you have come to the conclusions you have there.

Would you also say that all the scientist who have studied the paranormal are stupid? How so?

mmm, last i checked duke university has a parapsychology degree--because they didn't count it as a pseudo science....

frosty, the personal attacks you have made on kibbles are inappropriate, i find your behavior appalling

im sorry for you durnut--the same thing(s) happened to me in grade school-i can say i feel your pain there

Wait, the same thing happened to you?
Ok. Do you both live in the US?