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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism
Hehe
The triumph of science explains, more than any other single factor, the west's enormous lead over other civilizations in technology, innovation, living standard and military might.
Why has science for the past 600 years been virtually a western monopoly?
Well... sometime between the 13th and 15th centuries, Europe pulled well ahead of the rest of the world in science and technology, a lead consolidated in the following 200 years.
In 1687, Isaac Newton - foreshadowed by Copernicus, Kepler and others - had his glorious insight that the universe is governed by a few physical, mechanical and mathematical laws. This instilled tremendous confidence that everything made sense, everything fitted together, and everything could be improved by science.

In medievil and early modern Europe, when science made its greatest strides, scholars believed that the secrets of the universe could be unravelled because they had been implanted by a reliable and all-powerful creator-God who had written nature's rules in a dependable way. In other words, the full emergence of science required belief in one all-powerfull God, whose perfect creation awaited rational, scientific explanation.

This condition was peculiar to Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions). In other religions there is no consistently rational creator; the universe is inexplicable, unpredictable. Still it took Christians more than a thousand years to invent modern science, the developement of which was uniquely encouraged by Europe's economic expansion after 1000, driven by a network of free city states.

Reflect on the inspirations for modern sciene: Belief in God and belief in humanity, a rational world view, and optimism about humanity's place in the cosmos.

But...
Science, it seems, has disposed of much that made it successful. It has eaten away at its thought-foundations: its contribution to human meaning, the human spirit and the non-material richness of civilization has shrivelled.
What may be called the "lonely hypothesis" - that there is no rational and good God, or no God at all, that humankind is a speck of insignificance on the edge of a vast, pointless meaningless universe.
What is it that will supply meaning to life? The existence and acheivement of human intellect, creativity and love?
I for one hope not...


Edited from June 24 2006 NewScientist: Fall of reason
exeller
QUOTE(Hehe @ Jul 18 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1274604[/snapback]

What is it that will supply meaning to life?


To tell you the truth, without God there is no meaning to life. According to religion, this life is a test. If you fail you will get something equal to spiritual life, if you fail, spiritual death.

So without that, there really is no meaning to life. Giving birth, getting married, struggling to stay aline, all worthless.
Box
Whats the point in it just being a test? that seems even more worthless than what you mentioned.

There isnt meaning to life, its just an insignificant accident on a teeny weeny insignificant rock. If you enjoy it, make the most of it.
Irish
I wrote this for anouther thread, but I think it fits here well as a reply original.gif

Is it possible for human to have all the answers and proof or must we rely a certain amount to hope and faith? Science is continually changing as new discoveries are made on a daily basis, the answers occasionally send us back to the drawing board and sometimes open an entirely new form science and reasoning. For instance quantum physics was for the longest time pure speculation and theory and now is receiving the credit and attention it deserves. We have a tendency to except scientific principles as dogma and in essence it has become a form of religion unto it self. With some adherents, so dogmatic that they reject anything to the contrary as being foolish and born of ignorance. Our personal view is blinded by our own arrogance and self worth to the point of actually stiffening our scientific progress as well as neutralizing our spirituality. We place our faith in proof and speculation and give little credit toward old wisdom and ancient knowledge, New and Improved has become the god of the twentieth century.
In reality if a man was to know all there is to know about this planet we call home we would consider him to be a genius among men. Yet even if it were possible to have all that knowledge we must also consider that this planet of ours is but a grain of sand in the vastness of the universe and that knowledge is extremely limited and miniscule leaving us right back were we started with speculation and faith.
Although I admire science and appreciate the strides it has taken us I personally have more faith in the Creator than I do in the sciences. If it is not possible to know everything there is to know then I believe a foundation of faith is greater than a foundation of uncertainty to build my life upon.

Irish

mako
Actually science "took off" because Christianity began losing it's strangle hold on humanity's mind. Led by the free-thinking Scots of the 17th century, science and philosophy gained ground with ever increasing alaricity, never looking back; while Chrisitianity stayed stuck in the Bronze and Iron ages. It was during that period that Deism and Atheism came powers, showing that unchaining mankind's mind benefitted all but those of the religious heirarchy. yes.gif
exeller
QUOTE(Box @ Jul 18 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]1274807[/snapback]

Whats the point in it just being a test? that seems even more worthless than what you mentioned.


No it doesn't. If there is no God, then no soul and no heaven. Which means that if you die then you just blink out of existence. But at least if you have a soul, it would mean that you are preparing yourself for a better life somehwere else.
Box
I dont have delusions of such fantastical things. i just think you die, thats it.
exeller
Hey, if you really believe that you'll just blink out of existence, it just might happen. Which means spiritual death.
Box
It means my heart stops and cant supply oxygen to my brain, which is what makes me all that i am as a person. brain stops working, you just disappear as quickly as the electrical signals in there fail.
Reincarnated
the spread of christianity put a huge dent in the advancement of human knowledge and science in which we are still trying to get over.
mako
QUOTE
But at least if you have a soul, it would mean that you are preparing yourself for a better life somehwere else

Just a thought, but the ancients (including the ancient Hebrews and early Christians) believed that animals also had a soul..... yes.gif
exeller
That's nice mako, but everyone has free will to believe that they want.
Lumie
QUOTE
Whats the point in it just being a test? that seems even more worthless than what you mentioned.


Want to know the real truth? It's a test to see if you are worthy of being one with God and being a God yourself where you will ultimately be given the opportunity to help fulfill Gods grand plan, whatever it may be but I assure you that "grand" is an understatement. If you don't want to be a part of this plan than continue on your ignorant path towards nothingness and meaninglessness. If you want to be apart of this plan and transcend into a being like the heroes and Gods of old than start looking for the truth and a good place to start is of course, Jesus.
Something Like Laughter
QUOTE
The triumph of science explains, more than any other single factor, the west's enormous lead over other civilizations in technology, innovation, living standard and military might.
Why has science for the past 600 years been virtually a western monopoly?
have you ever read Guns, Germs, and Steel?
Box
What if youre wrong? i dont see why there should be such things. Carry on dreaming...
Irish
QUOTE(mako @ Jul 18 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]1274826[/snapback]

Actually science "took off" because Christianity began losing it's strangle hold on humanity's mind. Led by the free-thinking Scots of the 17th century, science and philosophy gained ground with ever increasing alaricity, never looking back; while Chrisitianity stayed stuck in the Bronze and Iron ages. It was during that period that Deism and Atheism came powers, showing that unchaining mankind's mind benefitted all but those of the religious heirarchy. yes.gif


Mako: strangle hold on humanity's mind is a bit dramatic don’t you think?
Here are just a few, of the top of my head who you feel were stuck in the Bronze and Iron ages. All happen to be famous leaders in the field of Science, Technology and Exploration as well as Christians.
Pretty out of the box thinkers for being stuck in a strangle hold. blush.gif

Robert Boyle
George Washington Carver
Christohper Columbus
Kenneth H. Cooper - "Father of aerobics"
Michael Faraday
Jim Irwin* - astronaut, Ark Hunter
James Clerk Maxwell - influential mathematician and physicist
Samuel Morse
Isaac Newton - inventor, scientist
Louis Pasteur
Hugh Ross - physicist
Francis Schaeffer - theologian and thinker (1912-1984)
Carol Swain - political scientist, author of Black Faces, Black Interests and The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration (a convert to Evangelical Christianity)
Wright Brothers

In fact it was the early recordings of monks and religious scribes who laid the groundwork for modern science.

Irish thumbsup.gif


mako
All were recipients of the wisdom of those pioneering Scot free-thinkers of the 17th century. Your list is short, a list of non-believer scientist, philosophers, educators, etch would be much longer... yes.gif
Irish
QUOTE(mako @ Jul 18 2006, 03:44 PM) [snapback]1275039[/snapback]

All were recipients of the wisdom of those pioneering Scot free-thinkers of the 17th century. Your list is short, a list of non-believer scientist, philosophers, educators, etch would be much longer... yes.gif

Like I said those were just of the top of my head. I challenge you to match my list in 10 min. grin2.gif
Besides There are more free thinking Irishman than Scots! But that is a personal Opinion thumbsup.gif
Irish
Reincarnated
An excerpt from The Great Beyond: Higher Dimensions, Parallel Universes and the extraordinary Search for a Theory of Everything by Paul Halpean.
QUOTE
The rise of Christianity and the fall of Rome led to a radical change of attitude in Europe toward science and culture. The extravagance of Greco-Roman art and architecture became replaced by austerity and uniformity. Thoughts turned to preparations for the world to come, rather than ways to understand the world that is.

Throughout the Middle Ages, a period dating roughly from the fifth until the fourteenth centuries, an emphasis on unadorned design resulted in a two-dimensional approach to painting. Portraits from that era appear flat and unrealistic, like paper dolls. The notion of depth was almost forgotten, as painters reproduced staid likenesses of Jesus, Mary, the Apostles, and other New Testament figures.

Then in the Renaissance era, the sleeping giant of creative art arose from its slumber. Rubbing its eyes, it gazed at the world anew. It began to scrutinize the precise details of the way nature appears, capturing those impressions in increasingly realistic depictions.

One of the harbingers of the new movement was the early fourteenth-century Florentine artist Giotto di Bondone. When Giotto painted scenes, he imagined them from the point of view of someone standing a certain distance away. Then he sketched the images with those lines of sight in his mind. The result was sharply different from the flat paintings of his predecessors, far more vivid and true to form.

With his discovery of perspective, Giotto brought the third dimension back into art. Onlookers stood entranced when looking at Giotto's paintings, like children watching television for the first time. They marveled at his ability to make them feel as if they were actually at the scenes he rendered. Soon other artists began to imitate his style, hoping to recreate some of their own striking images.
Box
Einstein was a firm believer in god, and was unsure if he should have continued with his work because he didnt want to delve into gods realm as it were, especially while he was trying to discover 'the theory of everything'. One example where god has hindered scientific advancement.
Tangerine Sheri
QUOTE(Box @ Jul 18 2006, 03:17 PM) [snapback]1275074[/snapback]

Einstein was a firm believer in god, and was unsure if he should have continued with his work because he didnt want to delve into gods realm as it were, especially while he was trying to discover 'the theory of everything'. One example where god has hindered scientific advancement.

Interesting, 'god' the construct has hindered more then science...it seems that all things grow and change except 'god'........
Paranoid Android
To the original post - it's interesting to note that the most technologically advanced people today are not from the west, but the East. The prevalence of technology in Japan is staggering. Which contradicts in many respects the spiritual beliefs of the Japanese, eg - ghosts, ancestor spirits.

Such a mix of technology and spirituality gives Japan a unique outlook that I've always found fascinating. Movies like "the Ring" (I haven't seen the American remake, I'm speaking about the original Japanese version) encapsulate this dichotomy, granting supernatural abilities to a technological device, showing the Love/Hate relationship that the Japanese have with technology.

Tangerine Sheri
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Jul 19 2006, 02:36 AM) [snapback]1275533[/snapback]

To the original post - it's interesting to note that the most technologically advanced people today are not from the west, but the East. The prevalence of technology in Japan is staggering. Which contradicts in many respects the spiritual beliefs of the Japanese, eg - ghosts, ancestor spirits.

Such a mix of technology and spirituality gives Japan a unique outlook that I've always found fascinating. Movies like "the Ring" (I haven't seen the American remake, I'm speaking about the original Japanese version) encapsulate this dichotomy, granting supernatural abilities to a technological device, showing the Love/Hate relationship that the Japanese have with technology.



Good observation PA....
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(Irish @ Jul 18 2006, 10:51 PM) [snapback]1275049[/snapback]

Like I said those were just of the top of my head. I challenge you to match my list in 10 min. grin2.gif
Besides There are more free thinking Irishman than Scots! But that is a personal Opinion thumbsup.gif
Irish

Ya mean a bias opinion eh Irish? grin2.gif tongue.gif I'd say.............................................................................................................you're right w00t.gif
mako
QUOTE
Besides There are more free thinking Irishman than Scots! But that is a personal Opinion

Aye, but at the time that the religion's hold on mankind was fading, it was the 17th century Scots that started much of the ball rolling....at that time, the Irish were sitting around cussing the English over jugs of poteen! We Scots were sipping the Nectar of Scotia and discussing the universe in general (since we had subjugated the English without a fight and without their knowledge) and Liberty in particular! yes.gif
Irish
QUOTE(mako @ Jul 19 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]1276090[/snapback]

Aye, but at the time that the religion's hold on mankind was fading, it was the 17th century Scots that started much of the ball rolling....at that time, the Irish were sitting around cussing the English over jugs of poteen! We Scots were sipping the Nectar of Scotia and discussing the universe in general (since we had subjugated the English without a fight and without their knowledge) and Liberty in particular! yes.gif

Well my mother always said respect the Scots, after all they are the biggest county in England innocent.gif
Bella-Angelique
Potato Gin. Ugg.
user posted image
mako
Lol, Your Mom is a mighty wise woman...you know the old saying, "the good Lord made the Scots just a wee bit better" yes.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(mako @ Jul 19 2006, 10:50 PM) [snapback]1276328[/snapback]

Lol, Your Mom is a mighty wise woman...you know the old saying, "the good Lord made the Scots just a wee bit better" yes.gif

If you where to listen to a scots man say those actual words..it would sound like -- "Aye.. the good lord made the scots a wee bit bitter..there's nothing that we cannie do" tongue.gif better would sound like bitter lol
StalingradK
I don't really see why if someone truely believe god built this universe, they shouldn't believe in everything that has to do with science. I mean if he is doing it, why would it be considered wrong in Christianity.
verax-acis
QUOTE(Hehe @ Jul 18 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1274604[/snapback]

The triumph of science explains, more than any other single factor, the west's enormous lead over other civilizations in technology, innovation, living standard and military might.
Why has science for the past 600 years been virtually a western monopoly?
Well... sometime between the 13th and 15th centuries, Europe pulled well ahead of the rest of the world in science and technology, a lead consolidated in the following 200 years.
In 1687, Isaac Newton - foreshadowed by Copernicus, Kepler and others - had his glorious insight that the universe is governed by a few physical, mechanical and mathematical laws. This instilled tremendous confidence that everything made sense, everything fitted together, and everything could be improved by science.

In medievil and early modern Europe, when science made its greatest strides, scholars believed that the secrets of the universe could be unravelled because they had been implanted by a reliable and all-powerful creator-God who had written nature's rules in a dependable way. In other words, the full emergence of science required belief in one all-powerfull God, whose perfect creation awaited rational, scientific explanation.

This condition was peculiar to Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions). In other religions there is no consistently rational creator; the universe is inexplicable, unpredictable. Still it took Christians more than a thousand years to invent modern science, the developement of which was uniquely encouraged by Europe's economic expansion after 1000, driven by a network of free city states.

Reflect on the inspirations for modern sciene: Belief in God and belief in humanity, a rational world view, and optimism about humanity's place in the cosmos.

But...
Science, it seems, has disposed of much that made it successful. It has eaten away at its thought-foundations: its contribution to human meaning, the human spirit and the non-material richness of civilization has shrivelled.
What may be called the "lonely hypothesis" - that there is no rational and good God, or no God at all, that humankind is a speck of insignificance on the edge of a vast, pointless meaningless universe.
What is it that will supply meaning to life? The existence and acheivement of human intellect, creativity and love?
I for one hope not...
Edited from June 24 2006 NewScientist: Fall of reason


I must say Hehe.....I love this post. Keep it up. It's about time someone blew the whistle. Christianity is the reason we enjoy the exploits of science. The idea of self sacrifice and moral living at all cost created the environment needed for science to flourish. Early deeply religious America with the free enterprise system ignited the world with scientific innovation.
Stellar
QUOTE

I must say Hehe.....I love this post. Keep it up. It's about time someone blew the whistle. Christianity is the reason we enjoy the exploits of science. The idea of self sacrifice and moral living at all cost created the environment needed for science to flourish.


Of course! There was no scientific accomplishments AT ALL until christianity showed up. The dark ages were actually the ages BEFORE christianity, right!?
Something Like Laughter
so has no one read Jerod Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel? I think the hypothesis it proposes is better than giving responsiblity to any religion.
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