As a skeptic and having come from a science background I often find my self correcting misconception when science related principles are used or interpreted incorrectly as do those who believe what ever faith correct inaccurate posts relevant to them but ultimately most arguments brake down to a prove it argument

It occurred to me what is the purpose of this what do we aim to prove

My question is what you as a skeptic would gain by proving there is no god how it would it affect you, mankind and the world in the short term and in the long term how would society change

In the same way believers what would you gain by proving god exists (whatever god/gods you believe in) how would you , mankind and the world change how would it effect the everyday running of society short term and long term

How would you feel as a skeptic if god was proven or vice versa?

This is hypothetical so no well god does exists or we know there is no god posts please

Interesting topic. I am a thinker and philosopher (I like to think ), so, despite the fact I do believe in a higher power, I'll try and answer both ways.

If it was proven that there was no higher being, in the short term, there would be an upheaval of sorts, where the world's populace was divided into the religious and the non-religious, the religious trying to discredit and dismiss the proof, the non-religious doing the opposite. Once it settled down, however, depending on what fills in the blank where religion was, humanity would either prosper or doom itself.

If it was proven that a deity existed, again, short term, there would be an upheaval, but instead of splitting two ways, it would split three ways. There would be two sects that oppose the findings, but they would oppose each other as well, for those two are the atheists and the ones whose God has been disproven. Again, once it settles down, it depends on the choices the people make, that'll determine how civilisation will fare.

Um...good question. I think if they ever PROVED that there was no God, then it would ruin my life. Seriously, I believe in purpose and a reason for existing. The main reason why I dislike evolution is that it teaches we came here by accident, a genetic mistake and that's a wrong message to teach to people. Without God, there is no sense of right vs. wrong. It would be a matter of what I thought was right and you couldn't discriminate. There would be no morals, no values and no sense of purpose and that would depress me.

There are a multitude of reasons for living/existing. One does not need to base it on a religious cause

If the evidence (and that evidence is growing) is pointing to evolution being fact what is wrong with that?

*Thinks of all the evil done by God in the Bible*

]*Again thinks of all the evil done by God in the Bible*
It is sad when someone can only get their morals out of a violent book.

I agree with zandore. i think life is more amazing by thinking that weve evolved than by simply saying something made us. Morals are a result of society the way i see it.

I live a life free of 'god'...... I live in unity and awareness, freedom, joy and happiness and I am free of fear, I live in a state of peace and contentment and the tough moments i embrace as learning experiences, where once i dreaded those moments now I cherish the gift of growth...I do not allow myself to cling to the comfort of beleifs as it limits and stunts my growth...I allow life to teach me of life through the living of my life and i imagine this would be similar for others who have chosen a path free of dietys...I think eventually one outgrows the need for pacifiers and sees that they are complete as they are.....and always were.....

You cling to certain beliefs with a passion. God may not be one of them. Everyone clings to certain things.

eric i have been told by a birdie that you are making it a point to flame and stalk me....find something else to do or I will report you....

Actually I am not . I have not posted much around you lately. What I said was not a snide comment. Everyone has things they cling to. Thats all I meant. Sorry to offend, but I am not stalking. Since you feel that way. I will put you on ignore. Good day.

Now that that is settled.......Clinging to beleifs just becasue.... is alot different then using beleifs as a tool for growth...two entirely different concepts.....

Everyone who is anyone do cling to things...even if they don't believe in God...they have other things to cling to...like...........................................................................................
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..............................................forums

Thankyou madam.

If the day came when it was proven that god didn't exist......well everything would change, your life and everyone else's. Think about it you would be free to kill, steal and do as you wish without the thought of hell or any kind of punishment(besides man's law). I am not saying this would be an immediate change, but with time people would stop caring (some people). In the other hand, if god was proven to exist.....some would rejoice(these would be the hardcore church going types) others would be scared (that would be the regular people that believe but don't do much to praise god or follow his rules all the time) And the rest would be the non-believers etc, their whole belief system would crumble (well , that's if they have any kind of belief system) and they would be the first to drop to their knees and ask for forgiveness. Neither way is good, in one you live a meaningless life, it could still be a normal one, but C'on if you knew there was no god no heaven that would get to you somehow now or in the future (except for people that don't believe, I can just hear them say, I TOLD YOU SO!!). And in the other you would live your life afraid of god every second, knowing that he exists everyone would force themselves to be good and do good, I don't know about you but that wouldn't be much of a life, people would become paranoid. So not having absolute prove is a better deal, that way you can choose to believe or not, and not be forced to do anything you didn't want to do. Free will, something we have at the moment, if you think about it maybe things are the way they are for a reason, maybe that's why god remains invisible so you can do whatever you want without any pressure, and the real you can be seen.

May I ask what religion you are?

If the Christian religion: Morals from the Bible
^^^^
Those are morals I prefer to do without!

Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man ... , keep alive for yourselves."
[Moses, relaying God's orders to his people, Numbers 31:17-18]

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-When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you're about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you...you're to cut them down and exterminate them. You're to make no compromise with them or show them any mercy.
[Deut. 7:1 (KJV)]

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-But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
[Jesus, Luke 19:27]

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-"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword."
[Jesus, Matthew 10:34]

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-I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL:
I the lord do all these things.
[Isaiah 45:7]
Hmmmm. I thought it was the devil that did these things, maybe they are one and the same, a figment of our imagination.

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If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 20:13



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20: And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deuteronomy 21

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"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)


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Is this the same god that we were taught about in Sunday school? Obviously christians overlook these and other quotes when they claim that the bible has set the moral standards for society, and blame the moral decay of society on drifting away from the church.
Well, lets go attack a village, kill the men and grab the virgins, that should put us back on track with the bible.
"To make sure that my blasphemy is thoroughly expressed, I hereby state my opinion that the notion of a god is a basic superstition, that there is no evidence for the existence of any god(s), that devils, demons, angels and saints are myths, that there is no life after death, heaven nor hell, that the Pope is a dangerous, bigoted, medieval dinosaur, and that the Holy Ghost is a comic-book character worthy of laughter and derision. I accuse the Christian god of murder by allowing the Holocaust to take place -- not to mention the "ethnic cleansing" presently being performed by Christians in our world -- and I condemn and vilify this mythical deity for encouraging racial prejudice and commanding the degradation of women."

I clicked on the like Zannie posted above and read them...those are morals that I too prefer to do without

Well I guess I'm catholic, don't really go to church and I don't read the bible so I don't go by what's in there. I don't need the bible or any other religious text to tell me what's wrong and right.

You're right alucard you don't need anything to tell you what's wrong or right. But gaining some advice from reading some good ol' religious text would never hurt ya

If God were proven to not exsist (as a believer, that's the argument I'm supposed to consider, right?) beyond a shadow of a doubt... I would

well it depends on what it is or isn't replaced with. I've a feeling I'd endulge in hedonistic perversions until I croaked in an orgy of sex, drugs, and/or violence, but I don't really know unless it happens.

the more things change the more they stay the same. In a word, this old axiom describes how the world would react to scientific proof of GOd (or the non-existence thereof). Overall, I think if conclusive proof was to be found supporting either side, it would actually start more conflict than it would end.

If God is proven to exist - Well, the obvious question would be which God was proven. This would only be possible if God himself/herself/themselves/itself came to Earth and told us. In which case many people will say it isn't really God after all, but either a false prophet attempting to lead them away from their Truth, or it was an alien, or some other such rationale.

However, I think the question being asked is more about scientific proof. And if it ever came to be that there was scientific proof of a Creator, then the debate begins about which religion has the right God (if any). Every religion would pounce on this discovery and use it as proof of their own beliefs. The Deists would simply sit back and say "I knew it". Most Agnostics would most probably become Deists and say, "I guess it is possible to know whether GOd exists. Oh well". Some of said Agnostics though would then conform to one religion or other.

As for the Atheists, hardcore skeptics, and other non-believers in God, some would try and claim the evidence was not conclusive or fake. They'd attempt to explain away how such evidence is impossible. They'd check the scientists credentials and history and conduct a smear campaign against them. Perhaps rubbish them for bias if the scientists involved were Theists (who knows). If they're UM users, they'd claim it was photo-shopped . Others would act like the Agnostics, I think.

If God is proven not to exist - Like the skeptics from earlier, some religious folk would attempt to explain away the findings. They'd attempt to say that scientific knowledge is never complete, that there's evidence for GOd and we just haven't found it yet. They'd try and pick holes in the scientific studies used to prove the non-existence of God. Again, they'd conduct smear campaigns against the scientists, perhaps look at the character of the scientists who conducted the studies and claim bias if they're non-theists to start with (again, who knows). Some might say it's out of context . Other religious people (mainly the fringe believers who don't really care and only attend their brand of belief once a week more out of habit than any real desire to follow their God) would probably continue to be exactly who they were before, except they wouldn't spend an hour a week in a church/synagogue/mosque/Temple/etc.

Deists would say "oops, my bad". Agnostics would be the same and say "I guess it can be proven (that God doesn't exist)".

Some Atheists, hardcore skeptics, and other non-believers would take the opportunity to rub it in to God-believers - "I can't believe you guys were stupid enough to buy into this mythological rubbish". Others wouldn't be so harsh.

Buddhists and Buddhism would remain largely the same, excepting perhaps the branches of the belief that hold to a belief in God.



I'm sure I've left out some beliefs and views, but overall, that is how it would work. There'd be even more conflict than before, in my humble opinion. Humanity might possibly even destroy itself over the discovery (such a defeatest, I am ).

Regards, PA

Very good question Big Cheese.

If God where to be proven....It should be looked at from two perspectives the personal and a view of society as a whole.
Personally, I would start going to Church a lot more often...As for the rest of society, I think the shops would be quieter on a Sunday.

And if he/she/it where proven to not exsist, I think perhaps there would be a little social upheaval, some nastyness and unpleasant happenings would last for a month or so. Until somebody found a way to un prove the non exsistence of God, because people will always look to the mysterious and find comfort in a form of Spiritual parentage, we have too much imagination, not to.

So in my opinion humans are creatures of habit and they would revert back to a religious life with as many opinions on the matter as there are personalities and people in the world, no matter which way it was ever to be proven..
In other words I doubt either would change society much, except for the quieter Sunday trading of course.

Thanks for your views some interesting points


I feel if god was to be disproved for me I wouldn’t feel too different I wouldn’t gain an urge to become unbound by rules, indulge any activities that I wouldn’t do now or degrade my values in any way. I feel my moral centre would remain intact .The larger impact would be that some wouldn’t resulting in a knock on effect causing upheaval and unrest .Some would as already said claim it to be fake and resist it some would loose heart and feel well what’s the point. I feel it would cause more wars in the short term and cause great divides as does any power vacuum, New groups would claim new proofs and a struggle to be the prevailers of the “new Way” would ensue I feel we would become an even more splinted human populous than we are now. In the long term if we survived this unrest then I feel some other focus would fill the vacuum and would splinter as religion has now and things in time would be as there are now with many people believing many things for many reasons


If god was to be proven then for me I would probably have to re think a lot of what I understand I don’t think as a person I would change that much but my understanding of the universe and the world around me would need a revamp I think it would make me even more determined to question and explore .for the world in the short term I feel much the same as if god was to be disproved. People would deny, claim it was fake offer new proofs, I feel that society would suffer s much up heave and unrest with some people being angry blaming god for there lives who would other wise have suffered in silence .I feel that the proof of god would alienate a lot of religious groups who feel it doesn’t fall into there expectations and there for cant be real it would create sceptics from some believers and believers of some sceptics. In the long run I feel that humanity would become less focused on the advancement of technology and we would become introvert as a species ultimately living for when we die I don’t think we would become a 100% united people as there will always be those that oppose .I think the possibility of becoming a more tolerant and peaceful species will be increased as education and peoples perception of each other would gain a boost from the commonality proof would offer


It’s interesting how some feel that the realisation that there was no god would cause them to revert to some sort of personal crisis or that ethics or morality would suddenly go out of the window. I like to think that people are good because its there nature to do so not because of religious teaching or moral structuring

I think it is up to each individual to decide if'gods/goddess' is a useful tool for ones life, some find it is , some find it isn't....

Big Cheese, I would agree with you that on the whole people are inherently good for the sake of being good. However I believe that if God were to be proven untrue, then the many extremist type religious fanatics if you will would suddenly have to confront some pretty magor issues. And let's face it most of the fanatical members of any faith are generally a little loopy allready.

In fact a lot of serial killers and such actually hide themselves in Church and or turn to a God to repent their sins. Lord knows what would happen if you took away their belief in a higher power, moral inforcement or attonement.

"If god were definately proven..." I think that it would depend on which god, no? If it is the Christian/Judaic/Muslim variety, then I'm screwed already, so there is no point in 'switching sides', since I'd already be condemned for blasephemy and heresy.

Some of the older gods, however, might be a little more forgiving, so I would probably reconsider my stance on the whole god ideology.

"If god were disproven, definately...." It wouldn't change my life drastically, and I wouldn't belittle the believers, rather, I would pity them, for then they would have to restructure their whole way of thinking.

Knowing my luck JMPD1 it would be the "Oh God. of hangovers."that would be proven to be the one true God.

oh lordy, wouldn't that be all?

If it could be proved there was no god, it would then prove that all the evils committed in the name of that fiction throughout it's history, were actually wrought to perpetuate a sadistic, materialistic, human agenda of fascism, through genocide.


So really, we already have proof there is no god. Because something to be worshiped as better than us, wouldn't have the same flaws as us.

Hmmm, a very good question.

Assuming that he is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and science accepts it...
There are some questions that linger. It depends on HOW he would be proven and as others mentioned, WHICH one. If the 'how' comes in the form of a great apparition or somesuch stating 'I am God and I exist' without giving us an indication of which one and whose writings may be closer to the truth then for the believers nothing would change much Some non-believers would start joining religions based on their values etc. and how much each religion proclaims that their god is the one that spoke.

If a particular religion's god is proven (again beyond a shadow of a doubt) then that religion will prosper IMO - others will dissolve.
In either case above, science will start asking god for guidance (and physicists will start talking to sub-atomic particles ) and maybe a new kind of religion will surface - the anti-god religion. This group will now follow Satan and blatantly oppose God - worshipping satan (evil) as the greater power. Now proof will be sought for this entity.

If God is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt NOT TO EXIST and it is accepted among believers...
Churches will become a lonely place and will make way for new shopping malls The ones who once believed will now have little to grasp and may turn to crime. The ones who didn't believe will try to teach the 'believers' how to live a moral, enjoyful and loving life without 'the writings on the wall'. Laws will not change. Death will still be death. Spirituality and new 'religions' without the need for god will emerge.

All very hypothetical of course...

May I add a few other agendas such as capitalistism, opportunism, colonialism, imperialism, oligarchism, et al?

Thank you.

And why did you accuse him of stalking you? Thats kinda rude and full of yourself. I mean he said he wasnt and you didnt even apologize for accusing him.
And how would someone know if hes stalking you. I mean if you see a guy in the bushes watching you thats stalking. But on a forum? WTF As long as he doesnt have your information who cares what he does. And maybe just maybe hes attracted to the same topics you are. But wait that would be crazy.

If god didnt exist well then. All hell would break loose. From me that is.
Kill, pillage, rape, harems, wars. Fun times would insue. Then I would kill myself after I got bored. Or find a way to put my brain into a robot then I would be god. But then I would get bored and probaly kill myself anyways.

if that is what you truly feel, that if there was no god you would be free to do as you please. To hurt others and steal rob and rape, then you sir are an unmitigated ass.

There would still be laws and officers to enforce those laws. And it is people who express attitudes such as yours, that makes me that there is a belief in a judgemental god: At least it keeps degenerates such as yourself in some sort of check.

Not trying to be funny here...but don't you watch the news?? All hell DOES break loose...every single day..someone is killed, murdered, raped, tortured...riots ect happen ALL the time..to me thats ALL HELL BREAKING LOOSE!!!!!!!! And I still believe God exists

Hmm i think you need to get out more


I dont think those are fun times unless your a nut job and wants to go around raping and killing and stuff like that.



Please dont think this is a attack on you i just think that if you think raping and killing is fun then you need some type of help

Absolutely...if killing and raping is fun...then you need help...

in general though.........

Only a sick SOB would think things like that are fun...If I met a man that raped my lil one...id saw something belonging to him off, with a rusty knife...that will make sure he wouldnt rape anyone again

You want some ideas on how to inflict pain......do some research on the inquisition and their interrogation techniques

One word.....barbaric!

EDIT: Remember what Christians did to witches?

Lol poor christians they seem to have thir bad points pointed out on every thread. Im sure other religions had some barbaric punishments.

You're god dang right, heard of islam and stoning to death?

Have you ever looked up to see what some of the interrogation techniques that were employed during the inquisition?

No I really wouldn't like to.

See what people did to religion?

They took the pure virgin that religion was and turned it into a whore.

Meaning religions gone bad.

Lol i think it started off bad anyway. But i dont know for sure.

The Malleus Maleficarum(aka/ "The Hammer of the Witches/Witchcraft") , drafted under the authority of Pope Innocent VIII, was elicited as the authority to exterminate thousands of innocent persons in the guise of seeking out heretics so as to cleanse the christian population of their evil.

Ethnic cleansing in the form of religious genocide, praise god we're saved. (The church always slaughtered the indigenous populations that did not convert to the new faith. Way to spread the revelation of the god of love and build a church population! Like today's contemporary Papal policies, when it is said to be against gods will, in the catholic faith, to use birth control. Forced pregnancy increases faithful population. *whether you can feed the newborns or not, why should that matter? With the church in attendance, they'll go to heaven if they are baptized, after starving to death or dying of HIV/AIDS, right!? God must be so proud to see all those many new souls arriving at the gates. But at least their not ravaged by the virus and starving anymore! )

....

Oh yes, I know. "Innocent" included in the name of a psychopath. Don't think that contraryness has escaped notice.

Topic people......!!!!

Sorry, I mean, please try to stay on topic.

Forgive my ignorance, but how were we off topic!? (The "Innocent" comment included)

Nothing in the bible that says burn witches, is there?

Not to burn a Witch......no

Exodus 22:17
You shall not suffer a witch to live

Guys, since I have come here, I have learned alot, and my eyes have been opened. I'm glad as hell I'm a bahai, and very proud of it.

Don't be to quick on being proud

Bahai is still part of the Abrahamic religion.....part 4 as a matter fo fact.

Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Bahá'í