So.... where is it? Where is the real physical 'hold in your hands' evidence that ufo's exist.
Funny how in the age of the hand held digital camcorder that practically every household owns (and everybody is searching the skies) we still end up with blurred, shaky, indistict
dodgy footage. By now, with all these hundreds of visitations we should have a derth of crystal clear footage.....but no.
Still we here the same old flakey argument 'you can't proove it isn't, ...so it could be'
the classic non-argument.
An industry built on here-say, stories & schoolboy theories.

You don't need any "hold in your hands" evidence that proves anything. It helps but is not required. After all, there is no "hold in your hands" evidence that Pluto exist.


[quote]Funny how in the age of the hand held digital camcorder that practically every household owns (and everybody is searching the skies) we still end up with blurred, shaky, indistict dodgy footage. By now, with all these hundreds of visitations we should have a derth of crystal clear footage.....but no.[/quote


I wouldn't say that if I were you! Ours or theirs?



http://www.anomalies.net/ufo/gov/dsp/ummp014.ram

We dont need real physical proof, it can logically be proven... but heres your "real physical proof"



Right there. What is the flying object there? Sure, it could be a bird, or a plane, or a blimp, or whatever. Its unknown. Its flying. Its an object. Therefore, it is a UFO.

i looked at your link & i think it prooves my point

Would you care to examine the scientific data that goes along with that UFO? The data would prove my point and refute yours.

WHAT SCIENTIFIC DATA

UFO's exist, no doubt. It's whether they're of alien origin or not that is under debate. But terminology aside, I agree with you.

Thankyou..at last a voice of sanity.
Why do these ufo geeks instantly make the fantastic leap that if something cannot be explained, then it must be alien. NO... its just not been explained.

Have you read any of Project Blue Book Special Report #14? How about the Congressional Hearings of 1968? Or the Bolender Memo? The list goes on and on. One must analyse all the data before promoting a suggestive conclusion.

The Project Blue Book's Special Report #14 is significant because it contradicted the Air Force's own stated conclusions. Blue Book was not the open minded research project to determine the origin and potential threat of flying saucers that it was made out to be. It was simply an attempt at putting the UFO phenomenon to rest for good by proving there was nothing to it by any means necessary.

Battelle Memorial Institute agreed to assist them in making the Air Force UFO study more scientific. It was the Battelle Institute that devised the standardized reporting form. Starting in late March 1952, the Institute started analyzing existing sighting reports and encoding about 30 report characteristics onto IBM punch cards for computer analysis.

Battelle employed four skeptical scientific analysts, who sought to divide cases into "knowns," "unknowns," and a third category of "insufficient information." They also broke down knowns and unknowns into four categories of quality, from excellent to poor. For example, cases deemed excellent might typically involve experienced witnesses such as airline pilots or trained military personnel, multiple witnesses, corroborating evidence such as radar contact or photographs, etc. In order for a case to be deemed a "known," only two analysts had to independently agree on a solution. Therefore, in the end many of the known's may actually have been unknown's, but was recorded as a known simply because of two of the analysts reaching a consensus agreement regardless of what the other two thought. However, for a case to be called an "unknown," all four analysts had to agree. Thus the criterion for an "unknown" was quite stringent.

Sightings were broken down into six different characteristics--color, number, duration of observation, brightness, shape, and speed--and then these characteristics were compared between knowns and unknowns to see if there was a statistically significant difference.

About 69% of the cases were judged known or identified; about 9% fell into insufficient information. About 22% were deemed "unknown," which was a considerably large margin of the cases when you consider the stringency of the analysis.

In the known category, 86% of the knowns were aircraft, balloons, or had astronomical explanations. Only 1.5% of all cases were judged to be psychological or "crackpot" cases. A "miscellaneous" category comprised 8% of all cases and included possible hoaxes.
The higher the quality of the case, the MORE likely it was to be classified unknown. Exactly the opposite of the propaganda we have been fed from believers and skeptics alike for more than 50 years.

35% of the excellent cases were deemed unknowns, whereas only 18% of the poorest cases. This was the exact opposite result predicted by skeptics, who usually argued unknowns were poorer quality cases involving unreliable witnesses that could be solved if only better information were available.

In all six studied sighting characteristics, the unknowns were different from the knowns at a highly statistically significant level: in five of the six measures the odds of knowns differing from unknowns by chance was only 1% or less. When all six characteristics were considered together, the probability of a match between knowns and unknowns was less than 1 in a billion.

Such baffling cases included a sighting by a DC-3 pilot, copilot and passenger during a flight in July, 1948. Heading toward them was an object without wings. As it passed to the starboard they saw two rows of lighted windows and a 50-foot trail of fire out behind it. The object suddenly went into a steep climb and disappeared into the clouds. The craft was also observed by a passenger on board the DC-3. This case was classified as "unknown" meaning the quality was good and there was enough sufficient evidence to convince all four of the skeptical analysts that it was something that defied all other explanations. Sightings by airforce pilots and commercial airline pilots were very common, many of which had encounters at veryy close proximity thus ruling out the skeptics arguments of misidentification. Close enough proximity to see windows on the craft, and to see in the windows, to be able to describe the colors and shape of the craft in detail. This defies all other explanation other than top secret government projects. However, had it been a project the analysts would have classified this a "known" under the category of aircraft, no need to elaborate.

One case, from March 1950, judged Unknown and listed as Serial 1550.00, concerned an AF Reserve captain and an airline captain who were piloting a commercial plane. Both crew members watched a circular object pass in front of their plane a half-mile away. A brilliant light blinking at three flashes per second was sighted on the top of the strange craft and a fluorescent purple glow appeared through each of the nine to 12 portholes on the bottom. Visibility was excellent and the object's speed was judged to be more than 1,000 miles per hour. And these are just two examples of the MANY similar cases!

And remember, Only 1.5% of all cases were judged to be psychological or "crackpot" cases. A "miscellaneous" category comprised 8% of all cases and included possible hoaxes. Neither of these cases were listed in either of these categories.

It should also be noted that any sighting that included beings of any kind were literally thrown in the trash, which would of increased the number of unknowns substantially.

When the Air Force finally made Special Report #14 public in October 1955, it was claimed that the report scientifically proved that UFOs did not exist. Critics of this claim note that the report actually proved that the "unknowns" were distinctly different from the "knowns" at a very high statistical significance level.

The Air Force also LIED when they claimed that only 3% of the cases studied were unknowns, instead of the actual 22%. They further claimed that the residual 3% would probably disappear if more complete data were available. This ignored the fact that the analysts had already thrown such cases into the category of "insufficient information," whereas both "knowns" and "unknowns" were deemed to have sufficient information to make a determination. Also the "unknowns" tended to represent the higher quality cases (reports that already had better information and witnesses.)

The result of the monumental BMI study were echoed by a 1979 French GEPAN report which stated that about a quarter of over 1,600 closely studied UFO cases defied explanation, stating, in part, "These cases ... pose a real question." (Randles and Houghe, 202) When GEPAN's successor SEPRA closed in 2004, 5,800 cases had been thoroughly analyzed. The head of SEPRA, Dr. Jean-Jacques Velasco, found the evidence of extraterrestrial origins so convincing in these remaining unknowns, that he wrote a book about it in 2005.

As for the Bolender Memo's significance, it once again PROVED the U.S. cover-up.

"reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11, and are not part of the Blue Book system."

This PROVES that the government has lied repeatedly when asked if they are still investigating the phenomenon as they often claim Project Blue Book was the last and as you can see that is untrue.

"US Navy Pilot, Lieutenant Frederick Fox
There is a [military] publication called JANAP 146E that has a section that says you will not reveal any information regarding the UFO phenomenon under penalty of $10,000 fine and ten years in jail. So the secret has been kept."

Therefore, the more significant cases are locked up in government vaults. Why would this be so if there was nothing to hide?

There are as many photographs of UFOs as there are of the Loch Ness Monster, and they are of equal quality: blurs and forgeries. Oddly, the advent of inexpensive video cameras has corresponded to a decrease in UFO sightings.* Other physical evidence, such as alleged debris from alien crashes, or burn marks on the ground from alien landings, or implants in noses or brains of alien abductees, have turned out to be quite terrestrial, including forgeries. The main reasons for believing in UFOs are the questionable interpretations of visual experiences, the testimony of many people, the inability to distinguish science fiction from science, the willingness to trust incompetent men telling fantastic stories, the ability to distrust all contrary sources as being part of an evil conspiracy to withhold the truth, and a desire for contact with the world above. Belief in aliens and UFOs is akin to belief in supernatural beings.

Sounds like ganja guru to me.

Another common tactic of UFOlogists is to claim that the skeptic cannot prove that what was seen was not an alien craft. One is supposed to infer from this fact that the perception probably was of an alien craft. This kind of reasoning is known as the argumentum ad ignorantiam. A claim does not become true or reasonable if a contrary claim cannot be proved to be true. With arguments for UFOs there are two distinct moves here. One is to claim that no logical explanation is possible because some scientist, pilot, Air Force Colonel, or Ph.D. cannot think of one. The other is to point to the lack of contrary evidence: no counter-testimony of other eyewitnesses, no proof that there were not aliens or alien spacecraft. Here, too, there is a logical error. The fact that some genius cannot come up with an explanation for something is irrelevant to deciding whether the correct explanation should be couched in terms of visitors from outer space. The choice is not either (A) we know this conventional explanation is correct or ( we must conclude that aliens have visited us.

The following data.


http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Nellis_Ground_Topo.html

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Nellis_trajectory.html

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Nellis_altitude_time.html

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Nellis_velocity.html

It should be noted that UFOs are usually observed by untrained sky watchers and almost never by professional or amateur astronomers, people who spend inordinate amounts of time observing the heavens above. These untrained observers have been aided by the availability of inexpensive video cameras, yet despite the enormous increase in volume of such cameras, there has been a drop in the number of UFO observations. Anyway, one would think that astronomers would have spotted some of these alien craft by now. Perhaps the crafty aliens know that good scientists are skeptical and inquisitive. Such beings might pose a threat to the security of a story well told.

You seem to believe that the UFO believers have nothing to go on other than questionable photographs and possible hoaxed video footage of alleged alien craft. You have already demonstrated your bias by your obvious lack of background knowledge regarding the subject matter. You have done little to no research whatsoever and until you sufficiently analyse all available data you have no right to imply your suggestive opinion onto others.

Skeptics seem to believe that "It does not matter how I get to my Explanation. Doing careful research is a waste of my precious time. Everyone knows that UFO phenomenon is just a bunch of BS. Therefore, even though a UFO fanatic out there might take issue with petty factual problems, I am not required to get everything right because my Explanation will, in the end, be correct." This is hardly a scientific approach, and in effect is actually even more blindly religious in nature than many of the crazed UFO cult believers.

Those were government contractors on the test range. They knew what they were doing, they are experts!



See what I mean about UFO skeptics not doing their homework?


A LIST OF SIGHTINGS BY ASTRONOMERS

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/Astronomers.htm

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf129/sf129p15.htm

Nice try, but that claim is both biased and inaccurate; it couldn't be further from the truth. There have been literally thousands of sightings by trained airforce pilots, commercial airline pilots, civilian pilots, astronauts, astronomers, physicists, and just about every other category of "trained observers". Some sightings are seen by entire cities and military bases. Some UFOs have been tracked on ground radar, airborne radar and visual. Some UFOs have induced physical effects onto the environment. UFOs have been reported messing with Nuclear warheads and shutting entire intercontinental ballistic missile down into an unlaunchable state. It has already been PROVEN unequivocally that the government has repeatedly lied regarding the subject matter and have withheld information from the public -- again this is not based on speculation, this is based on FACT! Military officials have been quoted stating unequivocally that the subject of UFOs is highly classified, even more so than the H-bomb. George Bush Senior when asked about the UFO phenomenon stated, "you don't know the half of it." Dick Cheyne, when asked during a radio show if he was briefed on the subject matter replied by saying, "[few seconds of silence] If I was briefed on the topic I wouldn't be able to tell you because it would be top secret." Point is, there is a hell of a lot more to this subject than meets the eye and simply cannot be easily dismissed. We are talking about a subject here that is at a totally different level than ghostly phenomenon and cryptozoology, both of which don't come close to comparing to the credibility of the UFO phenomenon and just for the record I am not a believer of ghostly phenomenon or cryptozoology. The UFO phenomenon is FAR more credible than all other paranormal phenomenon and should NOT be referred to in the same category.

There have also been THOUSANDS of physical trace cases from all over the world. One of the more famous accounts is the Betty Cash encounter. Betty Cash after encountering a UFO hovering a few feet above the middle of the road she developed a serious case of radiation poisoning and actually sued the government suspecting their involvement. She later died as a result of this encounter on the 18th anniversary of the encounter.
Here is a link to the story for further clarification: http://www.ufocasebook.com/Pineywoods.html

This isn’t the first time such an event has taken place!

Here are just a couple of the thousands of physical trace cases available for research:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/missouricrash.html
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/video/huffman-mann_hi.ram (video excerpt from a documentary discussing the above event briefly.)
http://www.ufocasebook.com/Hill.html
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/hillmap.htm (further verification of above account)
http://www.konsulting.com/friedman7-L3.wav (The Betty Hill Star Map is an important development that remains unexplained according to Friedman)
http://ufocasebook.com/Rendlesham.html (One of the most thoroughly researched and credible physical trace cases. Many pages including official government documents. Larry Warren of the disclosure project was involved.)
http://www.ufocasebook.com/ubatuba.html (UFO Fragments)
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/physica...esium/index.htm(Another source of the above event)
http://www.ufocasebook.com/Zamora.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/scoutmaster.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/Shagharbor.html
http://www.project1947.com/bctrace1.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/physicaltracefiles.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/physicaltracecases.htm
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/a...e_phys/toc.html
http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/rullan.pdf (UFO odor cases)

"If UFOs are real, shouldn't they produce some real physical effects?" The answer is that they do. There are rather well-authenticated cases spanning a wide variety of "physical effects."
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc616.htm

http://www.konsulting.com/friedman6-L3.wav (Science says you can't get there from here, but Friedman says that's just not true. Friedman also goes on to explain the significance of physical trace cases.)

Sightings from pilots are further proof of the existence of UFO's. In fact, encounters with UFO's by experienced military pilots and commercial airline pilots are far more common than you would think. The only reason you don’t hear about it is because of the government controlled corrupt media and the fact that very few pilots ever even end up reporting their sightings because of fear of ridicule and potential threat of losing their job or sometimes worse. These are not all simple lights in the sky they are seeing, many of these sightings are solid structured craft that cannot be accounted for. Many sightings occurred during WWII. These numerous accounts were nicknamed "foo fighters" which are very famous now but most of the better documented cases are still locked up in government vaults unfortunately. Also, coincidentally after dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki UFO activity increased exponentially according to many sources including June Crain. Obviously they are quite concerned about our hostility as I said before.

Here are a few sources on the topic of pilot accounts:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/foofighters2.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/W...ilotCatalog.pdf (This is a case file of 1300 Aviation related UAP observations dating from 1916 to the present. This is a fascinating and useful tool to develop an understanding of the threads of commonalties underlying many UAP cases.)
http://www.nicap.org/ufoe/section_5.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/navy1952ufoincident.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/1952b29galveston.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/felixmoncla.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/1954ufomothership.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/navy1956.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/kennetharnold.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/jal1628.html (Japanese account)
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc466.htm (Chinese account)

Astronauts and UFO's:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case396.htm
http://fatemag.com/2005_08art2.html
http://www.rense.com/general53/alain.htm (I also have a magazine cut out article verifying this account from the national examiner.)
http://ufocasebook.com/Astronaut.html
http://www.ufocasebook.com/nasafacts.html
http://ufocasebook.com/moon.html
http://www.anomalous-images.com/astroufo.html
http://www.ufoevidence.org/AstronautSightings.htm
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/astronauts.htm
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc504.htm
http://ufologie.net/htm/astronauts.htm
and that's just a few of the many

These are just for starters!

It should be noted that UFOs are usually observed by untrained sky watchers and almost never by professional or amateur astronomers,

That is just so not true... they just don't talk about in public by and large... I will sort a link out for it but the modern UFO era started circa 1856 when an Astrnomer reported a disc he saw clearly through his telescope...

Infact in the last couple of weeks on here there was a whole thread about the LA incident during world war 2 that involved an astronomer.....

The reason astronomers often dont see that much is simple... the area of the sky they view through a telescope is so small as to make an object like the moon look like it is on speed if the telscope is kept still.. its the eqvalent of stating..... well football doesnt exist cos ive spent 30 years studying a single blade of grass on a pitch and i ve never seen a game take place on it...

Very sad case, but it sure sounds a great deal more like a military execise than an offworld craft. Helicopters were escorting it, yet these occupants were not harmed by the Radiation? Why does every case have an ambiguous component No wonder it was covered up too, the military would get a public roasting over something like this. Many heads would roll.

I sure wish Friedman would get a haircut and consider some personal grooming, I personally have a hard time looking at him in a serious manner when he looks so "Mad Proffessor". You just expect a script to come out of his mouth!

http://www.theufomovie.com/clips.html

He's a nuclear physicist what do you expect?

UFOlogists would rather follow their faulty logic than accept the conclusions of Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force report which states that "after twenty-two years of investigation...none of the unidentified objects reported and evaluated posed a threat to our national security." (It was in this Blue Book that Edward Ruppelt coined the term "UFO.") UFOlogists are unimpressed with the Condon Report, as well. Edward U. Condon was the head of a scientific research team which was contracted to the University of Colorado to examine the UFO issue. His report concluded that "nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge...further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby."

Well seeing as you are the one quoting Ruppelt as providing evidence against UFO's...what would you think if i told you he was a believer ?
Source
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/096653123...5?redirect=true

Book Description
Back in Print after 45 years, the book they didn't want you to Read. Edward Ruppelt was in Charge of the Air Forces Project Bluebook in the 50's. His book is one of the first that shows what the US government actually knows about UFO's. In this landmark work that is now republished with a forward by Drunvalo Melchizedek, Ruppelt discusses: Have US Jet Fighters ever fought with UFO's? Was the Maury Island Mystery a hoax?
Did flying saucers ever really buzz the white house? Are there authentic photos of UFO's? And what is the true story behind the Lubbock Lights?

Ruppelt himself rises above official diffidence, and steers a middle course between skepticism and credulity as he describes the classic UFO sightings and UFO flaps of the 1950s, including the Lubbock Lights, the Mantell incident, the Washington, D.C. flap, and many others. One gains the impression that Ruppelt is a cautious believer in the phenomenon, if not an enthusiast or apostle.

As the Houston Chronicle said in 1955 " Others who have written on this subject intimated they were conferring with officials in the inner sanctum. This book, which may well become the bible of the UFO devotees, makes clear that Ruppelt is the inner sanctum

I agree, certainly UFOs do exist. It's when one gets into the UFOs = alien space craft hypothesis that it becomes inconclusive. Now, just because an hypothesis is inconclusive doesn't mean it's *wrong*...doesn't mean it's *right* either.

I aslo have a bit of a problem with this type of thinking:



Obviously, we are unlikely to ever "hold in our hands" a planet (or KBO depending upon your thoughts in this area). However, the evidence for the existence of Pluto is far more definitive than the evidence that UFOs are the technology of advanced alien life. The main problem with the evidence available for the support of the UFOs = alien space craft hypothesis is that a great deal of it depends on eye witness testimony and the invoking of conspiracy theory.

Could the eyewitness testimony and the conspiracy of a cover up be based in reality? Well, there's no reason to think this is impossible, but there's nothing definitive that proves this is the case either. So, those of us who are empiricists remain stuck (so to speak), those who choose to believe obviously do so, those who choose to disbelieve do so as well. Frankly, until some kind of very strong irrefutable evidence surfaces this is where things are likely to remain. BTW, this irrefutable evidence of which I speak would not have to be the "hold in your hands" type of thing either. If the aliens were to "go public" in a big way, make their space craft obvious, up close, highly visible over several major population centers, I'd suspect the UFOs = alien space craft hypothesis would be bolstered considerably (to say the least).

edit

look up some NASA footage, what else is in space flying around? what could it be? what could be going 1000's of miles per hour and then go in a complete differet direction?

My safe deposit box.



Having just purchased a new camcorder with that shakey-reduction thing, I found myself disappointed. I tried to film a jackrabbit hopping through the fields at some distance away, but putting the zoom on, the shaking was insane. Even when we weren't moving and the rabbit was still, the shaking was intense.

Also, my camera has an autofocus feature, which is a real pain in the ass when trying to film through trees or windows. It keeps focusing on the tree or window, not what's in the distance.

Now, combine a long zoom with a camera from the 80's or early 90's with trying to film something flying through the sky and it's amazing anyone got anything to begin with. Even a modern camera with it's anti-shakey thing is only designed to be used so far. It's like trying to hold a laser pointer on one spot across a yard. Every little tremor in my hand is amplified by the distance.

I mean seriously, have you ever actually used a camcorder? Unless you have an expensive professional setup, it's going to shake and jump around. And since most footage is impromptu (when do we catch UFOs flying around movie sets?) the best we've been able to get is a bunch of shaky, burred images.

Did you even bother to read any of Project Blue Book Special Report #14 yet?? Sure, the Airforces conclusion was that there was nothing to the UFO phenomenon, but the Report itself PROVED otherwise. The Report contradicted absolutely everything the airforce and fellow debunkers promoted! As for the Condon report, this has already been PROVEN to be corrupt. Again, not my opinion, it's just a cold hard fact! I strongly recommend you read the following recently published article regarding the UFO phenomenon in regards to science, astrobiology and astrophysics: http://www.ufoskeptic.org/JBIS.pdf It also discusses the corrupt Condon report.

Ufology is a science, not a religion!

Then Ufology has to follow the scientific method. This means no arriving at any conclusions based on belief or faith, only upon the available scientific evidence.

I couldn't agree more.

The evidence is inevitable, it's the interpretation of the evidence that keeps people on either side of the fence. This phenomenon has scientific backing -- if you'll except it.

Weren't you aware of Project Blue Book's faulty logic?

___________________________________________________________________________


Project Blue Book

Quintanilla Era

“Major Hector Quintanilla took over as Blue Book's leader in August 1963. He largely continued the debunking efforts, and it was under his direction that Blue Book received some of its sharpest criticism. UFO researcher Jerome Clark goes so far as to write that, by this time, Blue Book had "lost all credibility."

“Physicist and UFO researcher Dr. James E. McDonald once flatly declared that Quintanilla was "not competent" from either a scientific or an investigative perspective. (Druffel, 63). However, McDonald also stressed that Quintanilla "shouldn't be held accountable for it", as he was chosen for his position by a superior officer, and was following orders in directing Blue Book.”

“Blue Book’s explanations were not universally accepted, however, and critics--including some scientists--suggested that Project Blue Book was engaged in questionable research or, worse, perpetrating cover up. This criticism grew especially strong and widespread in the 1960's;”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book

___________________________________________________________________________





Weren't you aware of faulty logic of Dr. E. U. Condon's Colorado Study"

__________________________________________________________________________

Flying Saucer Fiasco
Look Magazine, May, 14, 1968
By John G. Fuller

The extraordinary story of the half-million-dollar "trick" to make Americans believe the Condon committee was conducting an objective investigation


ROBERT LOW (Trick Memo)

“Robert Low, in a telling memo written to University administrators, noted that “the trick would be, I think, to describe the project so that to the public it would appear a totally objective study but to the scientific community would present the image of a group of nonbelievers trying their best to be objective but having an almost zero expectation of finding a saucer”.

“Condon soon fired the two senior staffers he blamed for leaking the memo to the press, but Low, however, was not fired. It is apparent that the administrators in charge of the review is biased in the beginning.“

“Mrs. Armstrong had joined the project at its inception with no convictions whatever about UFOs. By February, 1967, she was convinced that the study was being gravely misdirected. When, on February 7, 1968, Condon told her that he was going to fire Saunders and Levine the next day, Mrs. Armstrong's first impulse was to resign immediately. But she then decided first to confront Condon with what she regarded as clear, unassailable documentation of the factors behind the disagreement and low morale of the staff.”

http://www.project1947.com/shg/articles/fiasco.html
___________________________________________________________________________

[b]MINOT AFB B-52 UFO INCIDENT]'b]

"For over three hours in late 1968, numerous ground witnesses observed an unconventional aerial object maneuvering over the [Minuteman] ICBM missile fields surrounding Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota. During this time, an unidentified object paced a B-52 and was recorded on radar. Later, the crew of the B-52 overflew and observed a large glowing object on or near the ground."

Portions of this incident were recently dramatized in the ABC News Special television documentary Peter Jennings Reporting: UFOs: Seeing is Believing.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/minotafb.html

What do you think about this newly soviet declassified footage of MIG 21 chasing UFO?

That reminds me of an F-16's radar depicting the same maneuver in relation to another UFO in regards to an incident over Belgium.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9054/belradar.jpg

That footage is from a Roger Moore narrated documentary that is a couple of years old now, at least... hardly *just released*...

I take it this documentary hasn't been shown in the USA?? interesting that ;-)

Yea a science with no available evidence to back it up

Science have been called upon to verify UFO case files. One example are the 1952 Washington UFO incidents where the Air Force claimed that the UFOs were nothing more than mirages caused by temperature inversion. Well, scientific studies have shown that it is impossible for temperature inversion to have been responsible for UFO incidents such as those that took place over Washington.


***************************************************************************

["According to a 1969 study by the Air Force Environmental Technical Applications Center, the conditions needed to produce the UFO-like effects attributed to inversions cannot exist in the Earth's atmosphere."]

Menkello, F.V., "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages," USAF Environmental Technical Applications Center, 1969.

***************************************************************************


So, here is where science was used to prove that the Air Force was wrong when it claimed that those UFOs were the result of temperature inversion.

Alright itsnotoutthere,
Check this site out and let me know what you're take is. UFO Evidence


I just want to know your opinion of the site.

For sure there is BS in the world of ufology. Plenty of it, as a matter of fact. But what about the rest?

All I ask is that you check it out. If you still have the same mind-set as you have shown in the last few days, that's fine, i'm only asking you to give it a (good) look.

I like it....

I have noted that the government and other authorities insist on people handing in all evidence...of captured material on UFO...the photos..the negatives...the cameras... all 'objects related to this...and where does it go??? is there an evidence lab... does it all get ' lost'... do they only let us keep the bad shots..or weak evidence to show others???


Then the idea that UFO discoveries etc are kept hidden because it will reveal new technology that shows how to create free efficient safe energy... !!!
It will destroy our economy..hurt too many pockets....also what ties ...controls will the big corporations/gov'ts ... have over others???






http://www.zpenergy.com/downloads/Greatest...et2pgsfinal.pdf



http://www.cufon.org/cufon/janp1462.htm

JOINT ARMY-NAVY-AIR FORCE PUBLICATION 146(E) (JANAP 146E) (CIRVIS/MERINT)


This file contains the complete text of: Joint Army-Navy-Air Force Publication (JANAP 146(E)), CANADIAN - UNITED STATES COMMUNICATIONS INSTRUCTIONS FOR REPORTING VITAL INTELLIGENCE SIGHTINGS (CIRVIS/MERINT) as released on February 28, 1994 by the Assistant to the Secretary of Defense.
The regulation is complete including "change No. 2", promulgated May 17, 1977. Only ten of the 33 pages (not including blank pages) are the "original" JANAP 146(E), the remaining 23 pages are as "Change No. 2".

JANAP 146 is important for a couple of reasons:

1. It is mentioned in the "Bollender Memo" (dated 1969) as being one of the "reporting channels" by which UFO reports which are matters of national security are reported; UFO reports "not part of the Blue Book system".

2. This copy is dated 1977 and still bears "Unidentified flying objects" as one of the items which must be reported despite protestations by virtually every agency queried that there has been no interest in UFOs since the USAF Project Blue Book closed in 1969.


http://www.ufocasebook.com/bluebook.html

http://www.beyondweird.com/ufos/Branton_Th...s_Chapter8.html



THE SECRETS OF THE MOJAVE
(Or, The Conspiracy Against Reality) -- Page #8

[7th edition]

Compiled by 'The Group' -- Edited by 'Branton'

-------------------------------------------------------------

continued from Page 7 ........................

"One possible scenario is that John Lear found out about this Top
Secret project -- perhaps while eavesdropping -- and this is his
way of 'spilling the beans' without implicating his father or
anyone else as the source."

In 1990, researcher Val Valerian released a peculiar document which was
sent to him by another researcher. The document is actually a list of
several military personnel. However, the strange thing about this document
was the title-heading.

Some researchers believe that within the deepest levels of the government
is an on-going 'covert space program' utilizing some very remarkable
aerospace and propulsion technologies. However, the very nature of this
program, the clandestine (and possibly illegal) means by which it is
funded, as well as the possible means by which they came across this
'technology', has apparently led the 'Secret' Government into keeping these
activities one of the world's top secrets, and apparently they have
enforced this cover-up, as John Lear says, with 'deadly force'. Perhaps one
of the most important reasons for the secrecy, according to some, is that
SOME groups within the secret government have allegedly -- in the face of
'superior alien technology' -- 'surrendered' to a malevolent alien race and
have become their 'agents' on earth.

Is it also possible -- as many researchers and prominent military,
government and industrial personnel are actually confirming -- that the
'secret government' is utilizing this advanced super-technology (which they
have hidden from the public) to carry out a clandestine space program
involving not only manned FLIGHTS to the moon, but also manned BASES on the
moon and, some claim, even Mars as well? There appears to be enough
mounting evidence to cause the public to at least consider the possibility
of these claims. Actually, if one carefully examines all of the various
claims and how they merge together in synchronicity, and if one studies the
various theories and arguments concerning Einstein's 'unified field' theory
and the apparent underlying connection between electromagnetism, gravity
waves, and other 'unified field' forces, such a scenario involving a fleet
of top secret government antigravity craft would not be outside the realm
of possibility.

The document referred to above contains in the title heading both the terms
'Starfleet International' and 'United Federated Planets'. Why would such a
statement appear on a MILITARY document? Could it be that, although perhaps
somewhat presumptuously, a secret group of 'astronauts' constantly travel
back and forth from ultra-secret bases on or below the earth, the moon, and
mars; and have in anticipation of an ever-growing interplanetary network
named this organization 'Starfleet International' and/or the 'United
Federated Planets'?

Val Valerian gives the following 'introduction' and story behind the
document:

"...Researcher George Andrews forwarded this puzzle to us. From the
introduction, it might seem that this thing was complete bunk. There it
might have stayed, except that WE TRACED 11 PEOPLE ON THE LIST TO ACTUALLY
BEING IN THE MILITARY. What does it mean?"

The following introduction is given by George Andrews:

"A friend who wishes to remain anonymous, who lives in a large
city, recently woke about 3 A.M. with a strong but apparently
irrational impulse to get dressed and to go to an all- night
photostat place. As she was entering, she noticed a man dressed
in a Navy officers uniform who was just leaving, who threw some
papers into the trash barrel near the door. She made her copies
and was about to leave and had another impulse to retrieve what
the Navy officer had thrown away. She came up with these pages.
Under normal circumstances, the news that the United States Navy
has a flying disk named the U.S.S. Excalibur (and U.S.S. Concord?
- Branton), operated by a crew of four, would be cause for
celebration... however (unless) this achievement is the result of
the collaboration of the 'Greys'..."

Andrews goes on to suggest that they might, because of their collaboration
with the 'Greys', be forced to take part in offensive attacks against the
'Blonds', who have allegedly had ancient conflicts with the Greys.

The introduction goes on to state that those names which appear with an
(x), are people who have actually been traced to the military. Take special
note of names like Ferguson, Caskey, Taylor, Burrall, Stevens, and Miller
-- which are repeated more than once throughout the list. Possible signs of
Nepotism?

George Andrews suspects that 'Starfleet International' consists of
human-military personnel only, while the 'United Federated Planets' may
somehow tie-in with the non-human entities' such as the 'Serpent Race' or
the 'Greys'. However, Andrews' theory that THIS particular Governmental
establishment has collaborated with the Grays is yet to be confirmed.

There is a possibility that the UFP involves interaction with the
'Federated' human cultures in this small corner of the galaxy. Let us hope
that this is the case, IF the following information is true. There is
evidence in fact that certain 'Constituted Government' officials (who are
loyal to the American- Constitutional 'Republic') -- as confirmed by Guy
Kirkwood and others -- have secret 'alliances' with the 'Nordics'; wheres
the 'Secret Government' collaborators (who are loyal to the Bavarian- Roman
'Empire') tend to collaborate with the saurian Grays, etc. Below is a
reproduction of the document:

UNITED FEDERATED PLANETS
STARFLEET INTERNATIONAL
U.S.S. CONCORD NCC-1989
CREW ROSTER

CREW MEMBER SF EXPIRATION SERV. NUMBER

COL. MIKE FERGUSON (SFC ST./MC) JUNE 1990*@ SCMC-8901-0002
LT. LAURA FERGUSON (SFC) JUNE 1990@ SCM-8901-0007
LCDR. HARLAN STEVENS (SFC) SEP. 1989@ SCSS-8906.23
ENS. REBECCA BURAND (SFC) SEP. 1989@ SCS-8902-0004
MAJ. MIKE WEST (SFC STAFF/MC) UFP ONLY SCMC-8901-0004
LT. KATRINA CASKEY (SFC) NOV. 1989@ SCE-8906-0005
2LT. BOB BURRALL (SFMC) NOV. 1989@ SCMC-8906-0003
CMDR. BOB TOMPKINS (SFC) DEC. 1989@ SCE-8906-0002
SGM. RAY CHAMBERS (SFMC) DEC. 1989@ SCMC-8903-0008 (x)
ENS. RON CASKEY (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCSY-0906-0005
LT. DEBRA MCCLARY (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCSS-8906-0004 (x)
MSG. IVAN GOODMAN (SFMC) JAN. 1990@ SCMC-8904-0001
CS. CRYSTAL FERGUSON (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCM-8906-0011 (x)
MDSM. PHILIPPE BEAUDETTE (SFC) JAN. 1990@ SCM-8906-0009
A-ENS. EVERETT NEW (SFC) FEB. 1990@ SCE-8906-0007
MSG. JOHN HIGGINS (SFMC) FEB. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0010 (x)
WO3. DOUG TAYLOR (SFMC) MAR. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
CS. ROSE TAYLOR (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCS-8906-0012
SP1. AMANDA TAYLOR (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
A-ENS. KELLY MADDOX (SFC) MAR. 1990@ SCSS-8906-0008
RADM. ANNE MILLER (SFC STAFF) MAY 1990*@ SMC-8901-0006 (x)
LTJG. SHAREN BURRALL (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCSS-8906-0014
WO4. CHUCK GRAHAM (SFMC) MAY 1990@ SCMC-8906-0001 (x)
PO1. DEAN KING (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCO-0906-0015 (x)
PO. CHUCK STEVENS (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCE-0906-0015
SP1 WILLIE STEVENS (SFC) MAY 1990@ SCE-8906-0017
LTJG. JASON MARRS (SFC) JUN 1990@ SCO-8906-0018
LTJG. CHARLES FINCH III (SFC) UFP ONLY
LTJG. JAMES CABANISS (SFC) UFP ONLY SCS-8908-0004
WO. TERRY MILLER (SFC) UFP ONLY SCS-8908-0004 (x)
WO. DEANNA WINSLETT (SFC) UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0005
SFC. RICHARD PARKER (SFMC) UFP ONLY SCMC-8907-0004 (x)
WO. STEVE WILKES (SFC) UFP ONLY
LT. RUSSELL NATES (SFC) UFP ONLY SCSS-8908-0006
WO. SHELLEY SAVAGE UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0006
CPL. CHUCK FAIR UFP ONLY SCMC-8908-0005
CPL. JON PLANT UFP ONLY SCMC-8908-0007
WO. KARREN SULLIVAN OCT 1990@ SCC-14522-12
WO. KELLY SPANGLER OCT 1990 SCC-14508-12

PAGE TWO U.S.S. CONCORD NCC-1989 CREW ROSTER
@
LTJG. JANET KELLEY SCC-
CPL. MARCUS MALONE UFP ONLY SCMC-
WO. ALEN SHERWOOD UFP ONLY SCO-8908.02
CS. KAHUNA KITE UFP ONLY SCE-8908-0003
SPEC. VINCENT LIN UFP ONLY SCE-8906.23
WO. GLEN LOWE UFP ONLY SCM-8907-0002
WO3. MIKE WIER UFP ONLY SCMC-

* DENOTES VICE FLEET ADMIRAL FOR UFP
@ DENOTES DUAL MEMBERSHIP IN UFP AND STARFLEET

* DENOTES VICE FLEET ADMIRAL FOR UFP
@ DENOTES DUAL MEMBERSHIP IN UFP AND STARFLEET

(Note: In the original document, 4 of the above names were indicated as
being members of the crew of the 'U.S.S. EXCALIBUR')

PEA Research (105 Serra Way., Ste. 176., Milpitas, CA. 95035) made the
following comments in one of their 'Files' (which consist of collections of
large amounts of documents and research related to UFO's):

"...Ramifications of MJ-12.

"If the U.S.A.F. test-flew a disk and was successful, what's to prevent
them from using the same saucer to transport men and materials to the moon
and mars? They would also be in a position to exploit the archeological
artifacts of the pyramids and sphinx in the valley of Illysium on Mars.
Also they could recover artifacts of previous races on the surface of the
moon. With the aid of NASA satellites they could map and mine the rare
earth (Moon, Mars) minerals at the expense of the tax payers while at the
same time claim that we have nothing better in our technology than space
shuttles (rocket power).

"If the Canadian Geomagnetic project was successful with their free-energy
geomagnetic motor, then why haven't we seen free-energy engines for the
home and auto instead of hearing about oil shortages?

"If the President of the USA is allowed only certain appointed staff by the
Constitution and Congress - are the members of MJ-12 outside of the limits
of the Constitution or did Congress give the President the power to set up
a Secret Government (non-elected) without the public right to vote on this
choice of the governing of the various military and non-military branches
of the united states?

"When the MJ-12 use non-appropriated funds for their Secret operations are
they using money from the Black Budget? If so, when did we cast a vote
stating that ANY branch of the Government can use the taxpayers money
without giving an account or being held accountable for it?

"When MJ-12 refuse to grant FOIA requests because of National Security
reasons, is it because the USA won't be secure against foreign earthly
powers, alien powers or against the wrath of a misled and deceived United
States public (the Voters)?

"Can laws be passed to Guarantee that various branches of the Government
will be held accountable for (the) shredding of classified documents? How
about passing laws to guarantee stiff jail sentences for underlings
(secretaries, lower rank personnel) that carry out the command to shred
confidential files?

"If the top of the mountain is corrupt, what about the foundation that was
later raised under it. If a Secret Government is illegal, what about all of
the secret projects it started and maintains control of? It's one thing to
classify advances in technology as SECRET, but it's quite different to
classify non-elected government as SECRET. When that non-accountable
Government (non- accountable by reason of being SECRET) passes military
laws that affect all branches of Government (military and non-military) are
the laws legal or non Constitutional?

"If the JMP (Justice for Military Personnel) letter is true, are the
actions of the CIA legal as used AGAINST citizens of the USA? Isn't the
purpose of the CIA to protect citizens AGAINST foreign threats?

"If the MIBS exist according to the documents, what has happened to the
Conscience of the Military Personnel that carry out false ID missions
against private citizens? Why are Military Personnel carrying out higher up
orders to impersonate branches of Government they neither represent or have
Rank in? Is this patriotism or blindness?"

In the April, 1963 issue of SEARCH Magazine, Will Carson and Jeannie Joy,
in their regular column 'PRYING INTO THE UNKNOWN', related the following
incredible story, which involved an apparent encounter with an unknown race
below the MOJAVE Desert region:

"It has always been a mystery to us in the first place how Mr. and Mrs.
P.E. can find and afford the time to do the sort of things most of us only
dream of doing. After knowing them for more than fifteen years, it is
inconceivable to suspect their integrity or sanity - and yet they impose
the following excise upon our credulity...

"While exploring for petroglyphs in the Casa Diablo vicinity of BISHOP,
CALIFORNIA, Mr. & Mrs. P.E. came upon a circular hole in the ground, about
nine feet in diameter, which exuded a sulfurous steam and seemed recently
to have been filled with hot water. A few feet from the surface the shaft
took a tangent course which looked easily accessible and, upon an impulse
with which we cannot sympathize, the dauntless E.'s, armed only with a
flashlight, forthwith crawled down into that hole.

"At a depth we've failed to record the oblique tunnel opened into a
horizontal corridor whose dripping walls, now encrusted with minerals,
(and) could only have been carved by human hands, countless ages ago - of
this the E.'s felt certain. The end of the short passage was blocked by
what seemed to be a huge doorway of solid rock which, however, wouldn't
yield. The light of their flash was turned to a corner where water dripped
from a protuberance - which proved to be a delicately carved face,
distorted now by the crystallized minerals, and from whose gaping mouth
water issued.

Why are you people wasting your time with internet sources when the best UFO researchers have already compiled all the CIA connections and Air force connections to this topic.

Nick Redfern's books are the best! Strange Secrets. Body Snatchers in the Desert (Roswell Expose). On the Trail of Saucer Spies.

Kenn Thomas' brand new book "Parapolitics"

Curt Sutherlies' "UFO Mysteries" (has some differences with Kenn so they go well together and neither reference Redfern).

Those three authors build on John Keel and Jacque Vallee the two previous best UFO researchers.

drew hempel, MA
http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm
http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

I'm an amateur astronomer and I've seen one.

im sure that some people have physical evidence of unidentified material. like the bob white artifact. maybe its alien maybe it isnt. but even if ufos are et craft. im sure theres other intelligences out there

There is no evidence that is the problem nobody in this world can 100%ly for certain say these ufos are real or that a alien race exsists.

Majority of the races of alien were created by the media things like cartoons and films potraying reptile type aliens and grey beings basicaly all it takes after this is some attention seeking being to say you know what i was abducted by beings that resemble the things that were on tv the othernight.

And hey here you have a situation where a few people who obviously have the brain cells of chimps and the are basically more gullable than the gullable creator himself to think hmmm you know what aliens must exsist because he has described a story and he said he was abducted wow this is unheard of so it must be true!

Then the stories become more detailed and more varied and after a while you have a phenomenon that soley was based on fiction.

Ive read so many entries on the internet of abduction tales just by reading them it's laughable some would make impressive movie scripts though I give you that.

Military cover ups? Secret bases? Roswell? hmmmmm once again provide me with some genuine evidence apart from quotations from imaginary military commanders and fake written disclousure papers

After all it doesn't take much for a average skilled typist to create a fake set of MJ12 documents lol

president Bush part of the illuminati? Once again where is the genuine evidence has anybody truthfully met any illuminati members?

Just seems like you guys really need to question the integrity of evidence provided

I mean it is pretty laughable watching some of these user posted videos of obviously puppet aliens abducting people

lame isn't the word man.

I saw Bob Lazar being interviewed on the discovery channel last night....on UFOs

http://www.area51central.com/area51/boblazar/

"Bob Lazar, a scientist with degrees in physics and electronics, claims to have worked for the U.S. Government on projects involving captured alien space craft. Originally a technician at Los Alamos, he was recruited into a secret group based at S-4, ten miles south of the mysterious area 51 at Groom Lake, Nevada.

Bob Lazar worked on the UFO's from 1988-89. He claimed that nine 'gravity propelled disks' were housed in a secret S-4 installation. The craft he worked on was known as the sports model. Lazar said its power came from an anti-matter nuclear reactor in near perfect thermodynamic balance. The propulsion is gravity, created, amplified and vector directed aboard the craft. He added that time as we know it is altered and, when at full power, light is distorted around the vehicle.

He saw metal in one section of the craft turn a clear blue color and strange writings scrolling on its interior. He saw a ship rise and hover over the desert surface.

Lazar states that his work was focused on the propulsion system, a reactor fuelled by a stale, unearthly element. He was told that the propulsion systems use gravity waves and the energy needed is supplied by an irradiating Element 115.

The propulsion system is an antimatter reactor. In the disc Bob crawled inside, the reactor was a sphere, about the size of a medicine ball. The top half of it was visible in the middle of the floor. Fuel for the reactor is element 115, ununpentium. On a periodic table, ununpentium would be listed as UUP. It has 156 neutrons, and it is a super heavy metal. When it is bombarded with protons, it becomes element 116, an element that has very unusual properties. That is, when it comes into contact with any element, there is almost a 100% conversion of matter into energy. A kilo of the element releases the same amount of energy as 47 10-megaton bombs. As a result, each craft only needed 223 grams. The reactor generates "Gravity A" waves that distort the space/time continuum allowing the craft to travel vast distances in a relatively short time. According to Lazar, as the fuel transmutes and decays, anti-matter is released resulting in near 100% conversion of energy.

The gravity amplifiers themselves are three hollow tubes about two feet in diameter and four feet long. They are arranged in a triangular configuration at the bottom of the disc. The reactor itself is centered between the three amplifiers because the wave is also present at the bottom. The reactor acts as a transmitter, similar to a Tesla Coil, in that each amplifier is independently turned to function as an amplifying receiver. Gravity waves have amplitude, wavelength and frequency, just like any other wave. As the amplitude is increased, gravitational waves bend space around the disc. "

http://iron-eagles.tripod.com/articles/bob_lazar.htm




It was pretty impressive... they again did lie detecter tests...which he passed...the did a thorough back ground check on him... It appears that most of his history as been expunged... the college he said he went to has no evidence of him attending... they even looked thru the year books... but they admitted that the college was funded by the CIA an the gov't...so ???

But then they looked at his employment record...and what was still available...made it clear that he wouldn't have those jobs unless he had the adequate qualifications....He is abviously a gifted so where else could his education have come from??? ...there are no records of him having attended any colleges!!!

So he's been erased from everywhere!!!! It reminds me of the Sandra Bullock movie..'The Net'....

The investigaters also knew of people who worked at 'area 51' so they requested some obscure info off Bob.. eg... the interiors... where the cafe is.. the menu...how does one pay at the canteen... some interior idiosynchronicies..of where ..what..was found.. what one saw when going down such and such area... minor ..mundane info ..that you would only know if you'd spent time there...not something you could pick up from an article... and he passed with flying colours...so he'd obviously spent time there...

So it was strange that too many records seem to be expunged...they forgot to create new records..to account for his time....LOL..

The investigators thought that there definately was something to what he claims... that it does definately appear that a lot of effort was put in to try to erase his influence....

Why...???


Why go thru this effort unless they have something to cover up????


At the end of the show the consensus was that they think there is something to his story....

There seems to be a recurring theme ( or themes ) to a lot of these threads.
Generally speaking it appears that the people that are 'true believers' in so called extraterestial phenomena seem to also believe in various conspiracy theroies to account for the lack of irrifutable evidence. When you think about it, this is the perfect 'get out' clause for any reasoned argument.
''..oh yes, there is loads of evidence to prove that aliens are visiting us''...

''ok, can you please show it to me?''....

''ah, well i would but the government is hiding the real evidence,..sorry''.

Brilliant.

And I have read comments by certain members putting forward the notion that pilots, astronauts & military personel are very most credible witnesses when reporting u.f.os & must be taken seriously, then the same members writing pieces in the Conspiracy forum saying that nasa didn't land a man on the moon & the astronauts (trained military pilots) are a bunch of filthy liars.

Of course there is a government cover-up, and there are secret bases as well. BTW, what "fake disclosure papers" are you talking about?

There is no doubt that conspiracies exist, and in such cases, "conspiracy theories" are entirely appropriate.

But no serious person proposes that any lack of evidence constitutes evidence of a conspiracy to cover up the evidence. That's just a classic "strange loop." It's fun to laugh at, but characterizing serious ufologists this way is just a straw man tactic and merits no response.

The fact is, we keep hearing that "there is no evidence," when in fact there is evidence. OK, so perhaps the "evidence" is such that it's better explained by some other theory than ET in flying saucers. Fine, we can argue that. But it is simply not the case that there is no evidence. Anyone who says that has not looked, pure and simple.