Heres something nice that suits the God/no God debate

nice article for people who doubt the Creator.

I absoulutely agree.

in what sense?

ps: your sig...which side are you on?

Quit talking about the pope will ya?



They don't believe in God for good reason, ok? So why don't you just leave them alone and stop trying to convert them. Let them find their own path.

IMO, you feel threatened because what athiests say makes alot of sense, so by trying to make athiests seem inferior you get satisfaction and comfort.



Who created God



"How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. "

I agree with exe11er's post. Nothing more need be said by me here.

exe11er....
who Created God?
wow.
you can only phathom things with a beginning and an end right?
He has neither, and is thus unphathomable by you at this time.

athiests make much sense, you are right, and nothing else.
He is senseless. Only a flesh body has senses.

I am not trying to convert a thing. It has already been converted.

ps: all religion is false religion. He is One.

MadMachine...
YOU ARE RIGHT.

IV you may be surprised to learn that I am a thiest, and my religion does say that the universe and god have no begining, but it sounds a lil wacked out.

Yeah, nothing more needed to be said by me here. Doesn't stop me from saying it.

Oh, I can fathom it. I just don't agree with it.

I have to agree with you there. Senselessness seems to be what a lot of his followers aspire for. No offense meant.

None taken.
It is an admireable state.
One where everything is done without doing. Everything is known without knowing.
Touched without touching, for His Truth is spoken without His utterance of a word.

wow, let's bring in all the religious/non-religious generalizations, shall we.

What i got from that post: non-Christians/atheists=bad, immoral and rebellious. Christians=happy, loving and peaceful. Or as the post wording uses - God-believers=strong, God non-believers=weak. Ooh, I particularly enjoyed this tid-bit of information: Any fool who is ignorant enough to say, proove He exists, surely is only fit for a term in Hell, sporting is firey flesh, a walking death, life in and life out.

Such generalizations, such condescention. My friend, I don't know where to begin....

edit: could you provide a source for your article? Thanks.

Whoever "Kamau Osaze" (Is it you, Ichiban?) is, they are very prejudicial, and calling others arrogant is hypocritical of them. Calling atheists "weak" and condemning them to hell, suggesting that that is justified, and suggesting that they are pure evil?
This article is comtemptible.

Lol that post made me laugh..


So..i am weak because i dont believe in God and im going to burn in hell for doubting him???


Lol that post might aswell said


Reason begets doubt, Doubt begets heresy






Blessed is the mind too small to doubt because a broad mind lacks focus is what i was getting from that post

doest it hurt you to submit to His will?
or are you so comfortable within this Hell, you'd rather not?

I didnt call anyone weak also, you did that, just posted an article.

For the record, I think every mind is beautiful, an the wisdom of no man should be ignored. How so is it, that man, even a man of wisdom, loves to ignore the work of the Divine Architect? Thats my problem.

I appreciate the world around me. I do not pretend to know who made it though. I will find out when I die. Until then, I see no reason to focus my mortal mind on something beyond the realms of the mortal.

Well, this article did call people who don't believe in God "weak", if not directly, you can see that if those who believe in God are "strong", what else are you supposed to infer?

Right there, in your post, you imply that it is unwise to not believe in God. People don't "ignore" what they don't believe in. Many, as I do, find the idea of a diety absurd.

I myself do not agree with this quote. I am a believer in god, but there are just as many false prophets, People who show up for Sunday church and say look at me
I’m a wonderful Christian although it’s all for show. I do know Christian that is ate up with greed and all of the above. I wish to share a story from my childhood. My family and I had found a new church to attend. My father and mother like most of the people who attended although we had not attended very long. It was this one night we had arrived. We had just found a place to set. When two adults came in to church. One of the elders approached the couple and asked them to leave. My father was so appalled that he told my mother and us to get up we were leaving. At first I did not understand what was going on. When we were leaving in the car my father started telling us what was going on. He said that this women and man who wanted to attend church was asked to leave because they were not dressed properly for church. My father said he could not stand a person who would turn away someone who wanted to learn about god, just because they were not all dressed up. In turn we found another church to attend. I do not mean to offend anyone because these are only my thoughts on this subject. I also do not want to turn anyone from learning more about god. Not everyone is like the one’s I have described. I also find that it is easier to talk to someone or anyone believer or non-believer in person. No one can really tell how you are truly meaning what you say by reading it sometimes. It can be the tone of your voice or the way that your body language reads when talking to someone.

Still waiting for a link to the source.....I could not find anything on "Kamau Osaze".

If his spelling is an indication on his level of intelligence......how low can you go?

no diety, only a Creator. dieties are man made.
I am not a fan of conventional religion, nor any specific doctrine, I just find it absurd to ignore the worksmanship of this world and the universe. Yes, the Creator Himself is not manifest, but indeed is manifest the most in His work.


I see where you could come to this point.



you wont find any thing online of him likely, hes an african writer with one book published called the "Message of The One". I have an english translation of a few chapters, I speed typed that quote (might explain the spelling), but its only a segment of a larger chapter.
I wasnt goint to say his race because anytime i mention a race in the past (i.e. im japanese/indian) to whoever Im speaking with, wise or ignorant, grows an immediate bias.

But most skeptics, if in no agreement with whats posted, first try to debunk the source as a way to shun whatever was said. This is fine, Im just sharing knowledge. If your only course of action is this one, it shows your level of intellegence.

to my knowledge mr. osaze never proclaimed himself a prophet. i belive he was a scholar.

I agree, with you, that in this message is best given in person, I just see a lot of wierd debates going on, like "God isnt fair", and "God (real or not)" ....and I have an abudance of info that I could share that may do as little as provoke a thought.
maybe Kamau was a bad source for this skeptic board, next time ill share something from myself, of toth hermes.

Then the only thing we can do with out a way to verify the material you posted would be to treat it as if it was your opinion.

BTW: You have nothing to worry about as far as the "race" you or the (so called) source of your post......I am an EONB.

Oh I am sorry i didn't mean that he was a prophet. Was only talking in general. I do understand.

The bias behind what Kamau wrote is so obvious it makes me wonder what the point of even posting such a rant accomplishes...unless you wanted us to laugh at it.

Well realistically now...A persons belief in god doesnt mean anything about themselves. Ussually those who dont believe tend to agree that seeing is believing, but beyond that there is no differance, and anyone who claims that there is such a differance is only noticing one because they want to.

I agree Xeno and what a rant it was.

It was worth the laugh!

Case closed

lol.. please.. this is why christians still exist.. they do not question.. they just belive.. they belive that something above them exist and will save them from hell.. Maybe aswering a question like does god exist is not on our level of comprehension but yet some centuries ago aswering questions like how can we go to space were faced like impossible things to archive, because they just didnt knew the things that now we know.. It was easier to say that it was just things of gods.. thankful there were some people who liked to know how the world works, how things are done and we are here.. comunicating each other over miles of distance. Why can just you question God. What is the need of someone that is superior to us in every aspect to be worshiped by someone else inferior to him/them/it, someone of you may say none, that god dont want to be worshiped by us but you still keep on beliving.

What is the point of living in fear to go to hell just by doing something wrong or thinking in something that will lead you off the "path", going to church, praying, speding usless time of our short live saying some words, censuring words that are evil, keeping you from talking, thinking, living freely. If i die and i will find that heaven and hell exist, and i'm going to hell because i dont believe, hell it is.
But the big LOL comes now.. by not believing in god im weak? What determines if a person is weak or strong is they way people are, how they do things, how they think, how they view the world, your motivation to do things. Assains or whatever criminals you know are all atheists by the cristians point of view.. they do bad things like satan do. All bad people are all evil, just because they dont believe in god but not because they have some mental illness or view things in a way we dont.

And one last thing correct if i'm wrong cause i dont know much about this.. Wasn't Hell And Heaven, God and Satan, Evil and Good all created by the mind of humans? Maybe they needed to be comfort just by knowing that something superior to them watch them 24h and is always on their side.. Maybe if wasnt religion we could be in mars, colonizing space or whatever cool things to do.. because sometime ago people were killed by some people of weak mind that belonged to some places called churches that didnt allow us to question the nature, the work of god and then were killed because they said something that would change the people minds about what they knew..

P.S: sorry if i had written something incorrect but english is not my mother tongue and sorry for writing so much in my first post but this topic made me inspired

Welcome xPu to the UM Forum.

Your english was good and your first post was well worth the read.

xPu: Why quote me? I never said I was a believer.

EDIT: I re-read my post and now realize how you could have taken it that way. I'll just have to clarify that I'm an open-minded Atheist. I don't think about the "Afterlife" or "God" because I don't believe in them, but I'm not completely opposed to the ideas. I don't like people who pretend they've got all the answers to the universe just because they read a book.

Sorry for the long edit and I hope I didn't just make you more confused.

I apologize if this is what you guys get from the post. I dont want harsh feelings.

I got something else from it, in that, evil, ultimately is weak.

only because I see other things surrounding the little things he said regarding evil people.

i know people who belive in God, and are VERY weak. I know people who do not belive, and are Strong people.

I understood it more as a separation from balance, and unconditional strength, and then evil alone, or good alone.
I view the creator as balance, or creation as balance, which naturally is strong and sturdy, and any extremety an opposite, good or evil, as weak, or unsturdy.

lol MadMachine sorry to quote your post but i just used that phrase because i usualy see the same thoughts on religion people, like my mother, she just believes and don't wan't to think about it, she believes that religion is a human need. And about afterlife i have nothing to say about it, i think theres something after this live but not the hell and heaven places.

I dont understand what is the point in living a lot of decades just to die and be buried and do nothing else again instead of being dead, but here i might be a little influenced by Stargate SG-1, where there was a race that reached a certain evolutionary point and then ascended to another plane of existence, and god could perfectly be fit in this place.. They have extrodinary powers and can change the course of events at will but they do not because they are not allowed to interfere, like the so called god never shows up.. But this show might be a good place for uncertain people about religion to see things on other perspective.

But since this isnt a tv show discussion thread im finished