I haven't seen anything on Tarot Cards around here, and am curious to know what you all think about them. To those who use them, what is your view on their purpose. I have had a deck for some time now, and dabble with it here and there. Sometimes I could swear they are accurate if I really pay attention to the present, and past experiences.

With a couple of readings I have experienced, they used cards whether I asked for them or not and as soon as they looked at the combination of the layout, I was told immediately what the present was first, and then what to look out for. It was incredible. I was described almost everything to the "T" while my husband and I said absolutely nothing. There were things this person couldn't possibly know about certain instances, and people with descriptions of physical charecteristics and names.

Please someone tell me how Tarot Cards assist in all that.

Psychic cue cards for the subconscious.

I bought my tarot cards last month. I'm still getting used to them. I've only had one spred that turned out completely sparatic and didn't make any sense. The rest were right on the money. I can't explain them. It boggles my mind when I think about it and try to figure it out. I think they're a really interesting tool to work with.

What a great way of putting that Bella.
Tarot cards are interesting. I don't know really if they are just so vague that they could be interpreted by the mind as anything personal to them, or if they're really saying something.
What is the origin of Tarot?

The oldest group of surviving Tarot cards, called Tarocchi in Italian, appears to date from 1420 to 1450.

Lucrezia Borgia was fond of cards.

I've been jacking around with Tarot cards for almost 10 years now and have pretty much come to the conclusion that they are, as Bella said, "cue cards for the subconscious."
In readings, they are typically general, never specific enough to be totally convincing, never completely missing.
I think they are a brilliant invention and best used for meditation, not fortune-telling. Especially a deck like Aliester Crowley's 'Book of Thoth' deck in which each card has a title and a beautiful picture.
And yes, I do buy into the theory that in medieval times and the Renaissance Tarot-style decks were used as primers to novices in alchemy and the occult.
There is a story there if you look hard enough.

I've played around with them once or twice, they are quite striking in their apparent accuracy. However, I tend to agree with Bella... cue cards. I think that they are so broad, that they allow for a very specific interpretation on many, if not all people who use them... An interesting activity, nothing more, nothing less.

They are a waste of time, and simply a way for companies to make money.

Those are my thoughts.

What companies... the tarot manufactur?

I've read comparisons of tarot cards to the Ouija board. Either they are mindless entertainment or portals to the spirit world where something bad can enter your life if you're not careful or know what you're doing.

I agree with all of your statements, as I am on the fence and really dont know the history and meanings of each card by heart. There is a special meaning for each card when placed beside another, and that to me is rather confusing. I was hoping maybe someone who is very familiar with using them, could enlighten me.

Anyone can do tarot but the difference between a tarot reader and good tarot reader is whether they're reading intutively or not. Some will read for you memorized lines straight out the book and charge you money ( bad reading in my opinion, i wouldn't be happy paying for a reading like that ever)

The good ones probaly don't even know what's in the book apart from the basics of each card and how spreads work. They have developed their own method of interperting the cards. (I agree they are good for meditating with and a good way to develop with them) Those who read by intuition are psychic and the cards are nothing more than a tool/guide to help focus/connect the reader to the sitter. For them there's never 2 readings the same, the same cards will prompt different things for different people. These kind of tarot readers are worth every penny as they are developed and skilled in the art. You will get alot more information from them than just the general meaning of the card. Sadly not so many of them around compared to the book readers and it's the book readers that charge people money that give the whole thing a bad name.



I can't really see how tarot can act as a portal or allow bad things to enter your life. The only misuse of tarot I can think of would be to have some crackpot of a reader telling you aload of bollocks...That could certainly be harmful psychologically as could someone who becomes dependent on tarot for every life decision.

Ya I always did feel a difference in the varying types of readers. Some would just go on and on about things they picked up with their intuition as well. Others would pause a lot and ask me if a had any questions. I can see where people get the idea its all fake from the people who do try reading the tarot, yet lack in having any kind of intuition to guide them. Thanks for the information, im curious, do you practice this?

I have 3 decks, They're pretty good for meditating with. Only ever read for fun with them so far.

I've been reading the cards for a good two or three years now on and off, but I can definitely tell you they work. It's weird though, I can read some people perfectly, and others I can be totatly off on. I started with this book that I really suggest to all beginners of the cards. It helped me out time and time again and finally after two and a half years I can read the cards without having to consult the book for their meanings!!

Well anyways, here is that book if anyone is interested.

'Tarot for Beginners'
by P. Scott Hollander

I had two decks for a while, I started with the Aquarian deck which I get awesome results from(mainly because I think it has something to do with my birthsign being Aquarius) and I went out and picked up the Aliester Crowley's 'Book of Thoth' deck. I never got any good readings out of this deck so I passed it on to a friend.....

Hahaha, that means they DON'T work, silly.

I've heard that if you buys them , it brings you bad luck(or they doesn't work, one of those two), sso for them to work someone has to give them to you as a present.

Tarot ruuuuulez !!!

BTW Happy birthday Bex !



P.S.Don't forget about our dinner in the "Chatroom restaurant" tonight !

How did you know that?!! OH...profile...ya....THANKS GANJA YOU SWEETHEART!

I have the thoth deck. And they work for me. I dont like some of the pictures for the cards And when I bought the deck I was thinking it would have an egyptian theme but oh well.

Yup.....the list of members who celebrate birthday today !

Okay back to Tarots Card, I am still hoping to find someone who uses them regularly. Ive heard a few rules such as the one, Daniella2310 mentioned, that it is possible to be "bad luck" if you buy them yourself. They must be given to you as a gift.

Ive gone on several tarot websites to try and find out but havent stumbled across any of that kind of info yet.

lots of people live there lives through tarot cards and cant make a move without them.then theres those who dont belive such thing as the tarot cards and palm reading.some say its a miracle others say its a trick.im not sure if these cards can prove the future but but its also not proven that it cant.in some cases these cards can cause a coincedence.

I've had my cards since 1968. Waite-Ryder Deck. I see them as cue cards for the subconscious, but they also tell a story of the indivdual's quest for enlightenment, the Major Arcana in particular. After I saw this, divination seemed pale by comparison.

Say palm reading says you will live a long, happy, rich life, then you go home and commit suicide. The palm reading was wrong.

As for the cards, I suppose the same could apply.

My friend told me that her friend was very good at tarot cards(they were always right) and the ones she used were called "Moon tarot cards" or somethinglike that? Has anyone heard of them? I know that's their name in english because one day I saw them in a new age store, but I don't remember if there was smething extra in the name.

Hi Becca, I'm a tarot reader, have been for twenty years. Addressing your question on how do they work and boy do they work,but thats another long discussion.A cute tenet of mine knew my hobby and asked me for a reading. Oh know, but I did it any way===in the reading I described a relationship and when I crossrefrenced it with numerology it came up husband and whoredom. THe atmosphere in the room changed, she was sitting on my coach with her back to me--quickly turn and said defensively "I suppose some people might think that just because I going out with somebody else's husband. That ended my career reading for other people. I could tell you a hundred more but to your question. YOUR body has a magnetic field around it. IT is generating and sending signals all the time and because man has for the most part lost his abilities because of civilization. Becoming civilized the ancient master devised they to keep him in touch with his true self.

Do u think theres a reason as to why someone might be attracted to a particular card.?
The Moon for example?

Having used Tarot cards for over 20 years, I can tell you that they work by picking up on certain energies the reader and the querent are putting out there. For some reason, the right cards almost always turn up in relation to the forces acting upon a given person. The job of the reader is to interpret them correctly. This is, if the cards are being read honestly and 'other stuff' is not added in for effect. I'm skeptical of most people who claim to be psychics, putting down their readings to what amount to 'Cold Reading' (or simply put, skillful guesswork). This being said, psychic abilities DO exist, but they're more rare than we think. Tarot cards, like any 'tool' used by someone with ESP abilities (like crystals, runes, etc), is merely used to focus the reader's mind on what the issues may be with the querent (person seeking the reading). A true psychic doesn't have movies playing inside their mind, showing them the querent's life. Rather, the most they see or feel is a jumble of images and sensations/emotions that require accurate interpretation. Tarot helps 'sort' these things out in a more understandable manner.

Tarot can give you insight into your past, present and future, it can provide dates, times and accurate descriptions of those people affecting your life, and it can describe the things that are bothering you in great detail - depending upon what cards turn up in the spread and where they are in relation to other cards beside them. If a card is upside down in a spread, it means something different than if it's right-side up. Add that to where it lays - at the bottom of the spread, it means one thing, and at the top it means another. The best book on the subject is 'The Journeyman's Guide to the Tarot,' (author's name escapes me at the moment) which describes the Tarot in detail, the various spreads used and the many different ways cards can be interpreted. They are accurate to the point of being scary.

When you got your reading, were you given a 'Querent Card' ( a card that represents You in the reading)? It would most likely be a face card, like a Queen of Wands or Page of Swords, something like that. Some readers place the querent's card in the center of the spread and all the rest of the turned cards fan out from there. Unlike most, I will assign a card to a querent but will not deliberately place it down first in a reading. It carries more meaning if it turns up randomly in a given spread. Spreads can be simple or complex, ranging from a simple five-minute/5-card throw to a 30-card Tree of Life reading, which can take up to four hours to read. If you have any specific questions in regad to the reading you received or about Tarot in general, I can try to answer them for you.

Depending on where it lays in a spread, the Moon represents anything from 'Something done in secret,' to 'Insanity' and even 'Sudden death' or 'Severe Sudden Illness.' If that card draws a given person's attention, then it's one of the above meanings that is having an influence on their life.

Not true. I own 18 different tarot decks - I buy & collect rare and unusual ones, like some people collect dolls or stamps. People who don't know anythign about them tend to associate them with satanism or witchcraft, which they have nothing to do with, and hence the stories/legends about bad luck. If they were bad luck, I'd probably be dead by now. If anything, they've brought me good luck, but that's debateable. I really don't believe in 'luck,' and anyone that takes Tarot seriously knows that the cards are tied into Fate, which is immutable and not governed by luck.

Crowley's Thoth deck is among one of my older sets of cards and has served me well over the years. The one I have was purchased when I was 16. The drawings are beautiful yet disturbing, and they were designed specifically for Aleister Crowley way back the day. The cards, even though they're called a 'Thoth' tarot deck, aren't eqyptiian in nature because it was designed specifically for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret order once headed by Crowley. Crowley, however, later got more involved in satanism and such, moving away from the benificent Order of the Golden Dawn, which (unlike Crowley) still exists to this day.

It's called working 'selectively'. So yeah, it doesn't work, but it's a nicer way of saying it

Anyway, I don't believe in Tarot. Like all 'sideshow' psychic/predictive acts, it's always based on being so vague people think you're talking straight to their heart, but the likelihood is that everyone is 'still scared from an issue from the past'. However, you think of your own particular example, as if s/he said it themself.

Hi Becca,

There are many 'Divinatory Systems' out there, like Tarot, I Ching or Runes. In my belief, the underlying principle is the same in all 'techniques' :
The concious self, the personality that you identify with, is just a part of the whole, 'higher' self (for lack of a better word). It is the higher self (not the subconcious!) that 'chooses' the cards to answer your questions. It has knowledge of your (& other people's) innermost nature (your desires/fears/behavioural patterns, etc), your true soul-structure & the tasks/challenges you need in order to grow. It has also knowledge and access to the past & future.

So, to put it simplistically: as such, it doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you give it a symbolic structure/meaning. In principle, you could use anything for divination; shirt-buttons, for example, or candy-wrappers, or beer-mats...

With regards to how "Tarot assists in that all", I've found it giving me invaluable counsel over the years, especially in times of crisis, confusion or indecision.

Tarot appeals to me because it is also a game. I love games per se, and being a game, Tarot has a certain playfulness & allows you to lay the cards on different levels of 'depth'. If I feel like it, I literally 'play around with them', or sometimes I pick a quick card before leaving the house in the morning, sort of, 'Theme of the day'. Or I lay them properly when I'm really stuck with a problem.

In addition to being a divinatory tool, Tarot cards also have a deep symbolism, representing the spiritual path, or evolution of the human soul. This is actually their original meaning & purpose. It is thought that they originated in the East, some say Egypt, some India, and were being used as an esoteric teaching tool, a 'sacred picture book', so to speak. Only many centuries later Tarot devolved into a game.

Especially the Great Arkana tells a continuous story full of grace and beauty. I also use the 'Crowley' deck. I love its rich, vibrant colours and the abundance of symbols & archetypes. I disagree by the way with the comment that the cards are vague & could be interpreted as anything you choose. The symbolism of an individual card just has many different levels of meaning, still expressing the same principle.

Anyone can learn how to lay Tarot cards. You do not need to have psychic abilities & we're all capable of getting in touch with your 'higher self'. (Although some Tarot readers are psychic & can pick up on extra stuff. That might explain the great amount of detail the reader could provide in your case. )
I'd like to stress though that reading for others bears a great responsibility & should not be done lightly without the neccessary experience.

Below is the preparation I do for a proper reading, maybe you can find some of it useful:

(Needless to say, prepare a quiet & undisturbed surrounding; don't read when you're too tired, intoxicated or after you've stuffed yourself...)

To get the most 'truthful' results, I need to put myself into the right frame of mind. This took me some practice over the years, probably a bit like meditation.
I try to reach a state of inner stillness & complete emptiness; For this it is important to become aware of, & then lay aside my secret wishes or fears . I know I said above that it is the 'higher self' that chooses the cards, not the subconcious. But I do think that the subconcious can interfere. Then I try to open myself up to & feel in contact with my higher self. As I, like a lot of other people I imagine, have some issues with self-acceptance & self-worth etc, I find it easier to do this via the detour of praying to what is sacred to me. I ask for help, guidance, clarity & truth. Once I feel empty & focused enough, I formulate my question & try to become just the question, and then only do I draw the card (This might all sound a bit ladida & Hare Hare, but I hope you get the idea...)

Don't ask the cards YES or NO questions, they don't work like that. So, with regards to the future, I usually ask questions like: What is the outcome if I choose to do A, what if B ? Also, in my opinion, divination can never give an exact, immutable forecast. It is one of the age-old paradoxes which we humans can comprehend only with difficuly ( and which sceptics SO love to use as proof against anything divinatory!) The simultaneousness of predetermination & free will. Time & reality are flux, at any given time; the cards will give you a direction or trend of unfolding of the future, based on your personality, the state of your 'self' at the time of asking. Our choices, directions of growth & develoment continually create a new reality. But as most of us are intrinsically stubborn & tend to spiritually procrustinate (Except anyone reading this post,OF COURSE!!), I found that the variances in 'outcome' of the cards are relatively subtle, especially for short-term 'predictions.

Lastly, a caveat: As with other divinatory/esoteric tools, avoid getting too dependent on them. (I knew this woman once who wouldn't step out of the house without consulting her moon-calendar!) 99% of the time when you think you have a problem or need an answer, you know exactly what you should, or shouldn't do (you probably just don't want to face it or delude yourself) Nothing beats common sense.

Hope this helps...

QotC

I can't believe I missed all this I completely lost track of my one and only post! DUH. Thanks so much for putting all that time into your responses, I am grateful. I actually haven't finished reading the one above me cuz I got so excited. Anyway I will continue to read and ask any questions after I'm done.

Yes it did help. I was wondering if your still around, that you may explain to me how you do a reading. I know you explained about the meditation part and making sure you surroundings are clear and mind is as clear as possible, but how do you actually begin?

Do you shuffle them, or do you let the person. Do you shuffle them until you feel theres no need to shuffle anymore and stop at any time, or is it important to shuffle with thoughts of what you want to know, and stop until you are ready.

Then, do you make the person cut the deck or do you just lay out the cards. What spread do you choose most often?

If you could explain your typical reading I would really appreciate it!

Becca,

I'm glad to help, anytime...

Regarding your questions:

-You shouldn't let anyone else touch your cards. It's got to do with them being imbued with your personal energy. So I do all the shuffling, cutting & laying myself.

-Yes, I shuffle until I 'feel' I've shuffled enough. But I stay in 'zen/empty-mode' until I've finished shuffling, then I spread out the cards, then I formulate the questions (as precisely as possible), and then I draw the cards. And then obviously I try to interpret them...

-before you start, shake your hands for a bit or hold them under the tap for a minute (clears energy), always draw the cards with your left hand (intuition)

-Most of the time I formulate my own questions; If I choose a spread, it depends on the situation/problem at hand. (A spread I use a lot is the 'Seven', a kind of stock-take of where I come from, where I am right now & what's up on the horizon) There are so many different spreads out there; I'd recommend you get yourself a book & start out with an easy one & work yourself up. A book I like a lot is:"The Crowley Tarot" by "Akron,Hayo & Banzhaf; Publishers: U.S. Game Systems. Even if you don't use the Crowley Tarot, it's loaded with symbolic analogies to astrology, I Ching, Cabala, etc. & gives you excellent foundations to study the deeper meaning of the cards.

- As I've said before, be careful when you lay cards for another person it IS a great responsibility. I'd strongly advise you to practice on yourself first. Don't read for someone who is in deep distress about something, it could have a profound impact on them. As with all other things, you should know what you're doing.

-A little tip if you're free-styling (i.e. formulate your own questions): Write down your questions as you go along, after you've drawn the cards. If you have the memory-span of an ant, like I often do( especially if you're trying to stay in a zen-state at the same time...)it's really annoying if you're not sure anymore which question goes with which card! And it's also interesting to have a look at them after a couple of months to see how things have developed...

-Having said all that, there really aren't precise rules or recipies you absolutely must follow. I personally find the right inner 'frame of mind' much more important than the exact proceedings. Whatever works for you is fine.(Others might disagree...)

Hope that helps too, otherwise, as I said, just ask some more questions...

Good Luck,

QotC

I believe that many users of Tarot cards tend to be Wiccan. I lived not to far from Salem Mass and they use them more the o-boards.

How do you define Wiccans personally, and what do you mean by "o-boards"?

I remeber my friend had tarot cards and then i asked her to tell me my past and present and future but she said i got to do my own so i did, and then i got the same results most of the times i did it

I guess since no one has brought this up yet......

Link

And....

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Hermeticism/Qabalah.htm

http://www.krishadar.com/A/WebTarologieA/T...p?na=n&pa=p

Any thoughts?

I personally don't think the future is in a stack of cards....

well excuse u..

It isn't. It lies within ourselves. Tarot is just a tool to access this knowledge.

Triad: Very interesting, thanks a lot. Nicely ties in with my belief that the symbols of ancient wisdoms or esoteric disciplines reflect the same universal principles (See also my first post in this thread).

However, I'd like to add that I do not believe that one must actually practice or adhere to any of these disciplines to be able to access or understand these mysteries- or to spiritually evolve, for that matter.

The wisdom and laws of the universe are contained in all things, are all around us. In a raindrop, every single cell of our body, a plant, a planet...Or, as it was so nicely put in the Gospel of Thomas (V.77): "Split a piece of wood, and I am there, lift a stone, and you will find me..."

A tidbit of info: The term 'esoteric' stems originally from greek and means literally 'of the inner circle'. It represented the ancient belief that true knowledge, or wisdom, cannot be taught or transmitted, but only be understood by your own experience and conciousness. Only later the term was corrupted by secret societies, religions, sects, etc.
-in the attempt to manipulate & exert power over people by trying to convince them that their 'organisation' holds the key to god & enlightenment, or plain old power & wealth, in the case of secret societies...hogwash... (my personal opinion)

Tarot cards , nothing but comic book art on cards......

Texas hold-em a lot more entertaining...

Uuuh NO.

Tarot Cards
Its major trumps illustrate the occult meaning of the twenty- two Hebrew letters, as given in the Sepher Yetzirah. Much depends, therefore, on making sure that each is assigned to the letter. The numbers of the cards enable us to do this. Twenty-one are numbered consecutively, beginning with one. Obviously, they must follow each other in the order of their numbers. The whole problem, therefore, hinges upon the disposition of the other card, which sometimes has no number, but usually bears the zero-sign.

Eliphas Levi, probably to mystify uninitiated readers, puts it between the trumps numbered twenty and twenty-one. Others make it follow the twenty-first card. But if we ask, "What comes after twenty-one?" the answer is "Twenty-two," while if our question be, "What precedes one?" the reply is, "Nothing." Logically, then the zero card should be first in the series of major trumps, preceding the card bearing the number 1. It corresponds, therefore, to the first Hebrew letter, Aleph, and the rest of the major trumps are assigned to the remaining Hebrew letters in the natural order of their numbers.

Turning our attention to the minor trumps, let us begin with the symbolism of the four suits. They represent the four worlds, or planes of existence, which, in the Qabalah, are said to constitute the universe. Each world has its own characteristic activity, and is the abode of a principle of the human constitution. is typified by one of the "living creatures" mentioned in Ezekiel and Revelation; and as each creature represents one of the four cardinal signs of the zodiac, the suits are also symbols for those signs and for the occult elements" to which they correspond. The complete meaning of the suits is as follows:

WANDS: Atziluth, archetypal world; spirit; lion; Leo; fire.

CUPS: Briah, creative world; soul; eagle, Scorpio; water.

SWORDS. Yetzirah, formative world; astral body; man; Aquarius; air.

PENTACLES: Assiah" material world; material body; bull; Taurus; earth.

In each world are manifested ten "numerations," or Sephiroth, emanations From the Inscrutable

Source of all existence , Ain Soph "No Limit." Each Sephirah has a name, and is the

seat of a particular manifestation of intelligence.

They are:

1. Kether

Crown; Hidden Intelligence.
2. Chokmah

Wisdom; Illuminating Intelligence.
3. Binah

Understanding; Sanctifying Intelligence.
4. Chesed

Mercy; Measuring Intelligence. Strength; Radical Intelligence.

5. Geburah

Strength; Radical Intelligence
6. Tiphareth

Beauty; Intelligence of the Meditating Influence
7. Netzach Victory; Occult Intelligence.
8. Hod Splendor; Perfect Intelligence.
9. Yesod Foundation; Pure Intelligence.
10. Malkuth Kingdom, or Realization; Resplendent Intelligence.
You will also see these, sephiros if you study a bit on kabbalah!

These emanations are symbolized by the numbered cards of the minor trumps. Each suit of spot cards represents the Sephiroth or one of the four worlds. The court cards denote the four principles of the human constitution. Kings typify the spirit; queens represent the soul; knights correspond to the astral body; and pages symbolize the physical body. There are four of each, because each principle manifests simultaneously in all four worlds. Such is the general outline of the correspondence of the Tarot to the main points of the Qabalah. The student in whom this introductory chapter has aroused a desire to learn the deeper meanings of the Tarot should get the pack designed by Miss Pamela Coleman Smith, under the supervision of Mr. A. E. Waite. It is by far the best, and I shall make it the basis of the interpretations to be given in later chapters. It may be had from the publishers of AZOTH. Having procured the cards, let the student consider the various attributions, with the corresponding Tarots before him. Thus he will discover many things I have no space to mention in these pages. Let him, in particular, write out the full meaning of each minor trump, as indicated by its number and suit. It is really surprising how soon the fundamental propositions of the Qabalah may be memorized by this method. After finishing this preparatory work, the student will be ready to use the great key to the Tarot-a key mentioned by Eliphas Levi, which Papus attempted to use in preparing his Tarot of the Bohemians, but failed, because he employed an incorrect attribution of the major trumps to the Hebrew alphabet. This key is the sacred name, commonly rendered Jehovah in English.

The SHEMHAMPHORASCH And The TAROT
This word means the Divided Name. The Name is Tetragrammaton: I.H.V.H., commonly called Jehovah. He is the Supreme Lord of the Four Elements which compose fundamentally the whole · Universe. There are three verses in Exodus (xiv, 19, 20, 21) each containing seventy-two letters. By writing down the first of these, and underneath this the next verse backwards, and under this again the last verse forwards, seventy-two columns of three letters each are obtained. These are read downwards, and the terminations AL or AH according as they are male or female, appended. There is also an attribution of these Intelligences, one to each of the quinaries or segments of five degrees of the Zodiac; but there are also innumerable other angels, demons, magical images, lords of triplicities, lesser assistant angels and so on, with demons to correspond. It is quite useless to study all these attributions. They could only be wanted in case of wishing to get into actual communication with one of these for some special purpose. These matters are here mentioned for the sake of completeness; but the Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry.

[quote name='Silentom' date='Sep 17 2006, 10:38 PM' post='1354152']
Uuuh NO.



Hey , Original Post asked for opinions...That is mine

Opinions are like......you know the rest

Point taken!

QueenOftheCramped (very funny handle) my persepctive on the issue is that each of us (all living things), is a unique part of an 11 dimensional puzzle (string theory). Ultimately the complete "truth" is an answer which encompasses the totality in relation the meaning of each piece. But what is presented in what is often related to as the great works are a perspective into reality from the context of those of us who succeeded, in accomplishing the task of presenting there piece of the puzzle to the world.

With respect to the Kabbalah I am intrigued by a specific issue, you see, I know that the Lords prayer is included in the Talmud. And I also understand the purpose in which it was prioritized as a result. The morning prayer of the Judges of Israel should be regarded
as relevant to any discussion, with respect to understanding Kabalistic knowledge, as in kind should be the Tarot. To be clear, I am Native American and Japanese but as a result of my upbringing I have been exposed to alternative systems of belief.

In respect to the Tarot it is an example of what Lao Tze presented in the TaoDeJing from a different point of view.

Any thoughts?