How genuine is Gods love?

edit: changed topic title to better reflect the nature of the thread. This thread I think may be for the religious just as much as for the non-religious - PA

Hello,

Fascinating question. However there is one concern I have, between the read of the subject and the body of the thread itself. "Not for the religious ones", and yet in the hypothesis you make references to the judeo-christian mythology. i.e. god, and a seat in heaven.
Whereas other faiths ascribe the title of valhalla, summerland, asgard,hall of judgement, Elysian Fields, etc... And wherein each experience , once arrived, is different and does not always entail a final judgement.

So, is your threads intention to engage a discourse as to the after life legacy of one faithful to a religious ideal, or rather as subterfuge to engender an opportunity for rebuke. (I ask that last part after reading your critique of the judeo-christian model, after you applied your personal answer to the question.)

My opinion is that God does not reward those who live by his rules or worshipped Him. If my God rewarded us on such basis, we'd have no chance, because we'd all fail. I'm not in this thing (Faith/Belief) for the rewards, but because of Love. I Love God. And my God loves me. I enjoy a relationship with God.

But were God to reward me, what would I like it to be for? I'd have to give a slightly different answer to yours - for me, being a Big Christian IS about improving the black patches in my life, but it's not as if it were a reward, it's just part of the journey. If a good deed truly is its own reward, then what more would one need? If GOd were to reward me, I'd hope it were for every time I put someone else's needs before my own needs. For every act of compassion and kindness and gentleness that I display towards another for no other reason than because it is the Loving thing to do, then if there were a reward, I would like it to be for that.

Interesting thread, Duke o' noodles. Could be very good. Let's hope it doesn't degenerate to flaming.

Regards, PA

my long years of military service indicates that the motto "no good deed goes un punished!" seems to fit the bill for life on earth--

That is very creepy indeed. I actually came back to the thread to change the topic title and description myself cause I felt it was too insensitive Wiierrd. But thank you for doing it for me.

As originally intended for the non-religious, the question seems kind of contradictory to me. For the religious there's no problem but one who is not necessarily religious there may be no god to give rewards. But I'll answer as best as I can...

All rewards, for me personally, are here and now in the feelings I get following actions that I deem helpful, kind, loving, respectful, honorable and in general conducive to peace and enjoyment of all. I do not expect any post life rewards as the actions here have only meaning and consequences here.

Guardian

Interesting question.

I have always felt that 'doing the right thing' is its own reward. IMO, to seek reward for doing what one should, taints the very notion of 'doing good'.

Strangely enough, this subject was on my mind last night. My daughter 'confessed' to me something that she had done. I thanked her for her honesty, had a little chat about what she had done, and why she shouldn't do it again. I then assigned punishment ( since the rack was in the shop being tuned, I had to settle for extra chores ).

But it did cause me to wonder about rewards and punishments. We are quick to assign punishments for wrongdoing, and expect our gods to engage in the same behavior, but we rarely, if ever, reward people for doing what they should be doing.

As for what reward I would ask of the creator? I would just like to know that the good things I tried to do in this life were of help, and worthwhile.

Great question.

In Ephesians 2:10 (yes, I believe the Bible), we learn that God prepared good works for His followers to complete. Works that each was specifically created for. The Bible also speaks of the rewards we will receive (crowns of gold and jewels, mansions in Heaven) for accomplishing our works. We do not do the works for the rewards, but our loving Heavenly Father wants to show His appreciation by rewarding us. I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure other Christians on this site or in your community would say the same, the longer I walk with Christ, the less I care about the rewards. I don't do what I do because I know I will be recognized for it, I do it because I know it is good work and because more and more often now I find I can't help but do it.

From my reading of Revelations Chapter 20, I believe that God will recognize the good things we all do. Unfortunately, none of us can do enough good things to outweigh our sins; none of us. So, for those who do not accept God's gift of Salvation, those rewards will never be presented or enjoyed because they will be cast into the lake of fire. For those of us who do accept the Gift of Salvation, we will be so overjoyed to finally be in complete unity with our God, that we will lay our rewards at His feet, of our own free will.

God only rewards you by the work of your deeds if you are a bad person by nature you go and harm another which is wrong but if thou art a hard worker you would be rewarded in kind

Fantastic answers everyone!


Something I've wondered -and correct me if I'm wrong or mistaken here - but it seems to me that to get into Heaven you have to live your life by a set of rules assigned and devote your life to the one god above. That's a lot of time you're giving to someone.
Yet...if you're a bad person....all you have to do is confess your sins before you die and you'll go to Heaven.

So wheres the line?

I do not really believe in God at this time, but I wouldn't care for rewards or punishment from him/her if he/she does exist. As long as we're here on earth and alive, we cannot be sure there's an afterlife, so I think the real reward for a good deed is that this world, which may be all we have after all, was made just a little bit happier.

Good question Duke.

Basically, we all get into Heaven the same way: accept that you are a sinner who deserves to die for your sins, repent of your sins and accept that God loves you so much that He sent Christ to die in your place. That's it! Now those of us who have done so, and are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit are living our lives "walking with Christ". We are trying to live our lives in the way that pleases Christ. We don't follow a "set of rules" we simply allow the Holy Spirit to guide us through our lives.

Personally, I do not feel like I am being forced to devote time to God, I just spend time with Him because I want to. Believe me, I am far from perfect, I am a forgiven sinner, and someone who is trying to live a Christlike life everyday, but I am still a sinner and like the apostle Paul says in Romans 7:19
For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

And since to God all sin is sin no matter whether it is a "little white lie" or a lifetime of the most heinous crimes, yes, someone could be a "bad" person and in their death bed finally realize their need for forgiveness and God will forgive them. Is this fair? Yes, it is, because the sentence that is being commuted is the same in both instances: death.

From a personal standpoint, I am glad this is the way God chose to do it. You see, although my parents, brothers, sister, and I all accepted Christ as our Savior within days of each other when I was 14, the rest of our family did not. Although I didn't know it at the time, our turning to Christ almost got us disowned by my Dad's side of the family. They were Catholics, although only my grandmother actually went to church. For years, this was an ongoing issue in our family. When my grandfather got terminally ill, this man who was a mean alcoholic, was cold with his family and had physically abused his kids (including my Dad), asked my father to come see him. When my father was at his bedside my grandfather told him that he had been watching my dad and his family for years. That he had noticed that we were different from the families of his other kids. That we seemed to have something the others didn't, and he had finally realized that he needed/wanted that. My grandfather accepted Christ as his Savior three days before he died. Someday, I am going to meet the man I should have known here on earth, a man who loves me in a way he never did while he lived. I am looking forward to that.

Well then friends, I won't be getting into 'heaven' for the simple reason that I do not see the human race as 'sinners'.

Flawed? perhaps

Self destructive? most definately

Sinners? hmmmmm no.

You are speaking from a christian viewpoint, where you believe that yours is the 'true' faith. But......
If there ARE other truths and paths to god, then it is impossible for anyone to NOT be a sinner in someone's eyes. It is my personal belief that the only rewards and punishments we receive in the afterlife are those we create for ourselves. My god neither judges, condemns nor praises one for the actions of ones life

And Sam, while I'm sure you are very happy your grandfather accepted your religion, I see it as a classic example of a theologic argument:

If someone leads a less than christian life, but sincerely repents on their deathbed, do they go to heaven?

And, one wonders at the phrasing of your grandfathers wish:




If he had been watching your family for years, why wait until death was sitting by his side to repent? Why didn't he try to reconcile with your family long before he died?

I do not mean to cause offense, or insult your grandfather, but it seems as though during his final days he was trying to 'cover his bets'. Although I'm sure his acceptance was sincere.

From a Christian viewpoint, it's not about living by a set of rules. No one can follow the rules completely. We stuff up, we make mistakes. CHristianity rather is about a relationship with the Divine. To have a relationship with God.

As for your second point, I think that this stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is to "confess". Confession is not just saying "sorry". Anyone can do that. Have you ever seen a child do something wrong to someone, and the parent says "Apologize to that man, right now!" and the kid petulantly says "Sorry", when it's obvious he's not sorry. Confession goes to the heart. It is truthful, it is sincere, but more importantly, it involves a promise to turn around and stop (or at least try to stop) what you've been doing in the past. What good is confession if you just stand up the next day and do exactly the same thing anyway, without remorse or guilt.

So where's the line? I cannot tell you that. Only God can, because only God can see where the heart truly lies. If someone who commits evil repents, only God knows whether they are truly sorry. But if they just confess because they see a "get out of jail free" card, then God will also know.

Hope that helps your answer.

Regards, PA

I have already been rewarded by god for my good deeds. I am living a happier life ever since i have been reading the bible, i have gotton into less fights, i have made new friends, and not to mention that my life is not as violant as people claim christians to be. I am living a clean healthy life, I got my faith, i got god's love, and not to mention that a more peacefull aura surrounds me. I may be an intensly morbid christian (Hence seedless valley chapter 2), but i live a non-violant life. Being a christian is it's own reward.

You don't do good deeds for the rewards...you do it because you feel its the right thing to do...Go or no God.

I have to disagree with you there, Cadetak47. When I do a good deed for someone it's for the reward of seeing them happy.

I just hope he'll say..

"Son, you could have done better....but you're welcome in my kingdom."

That would be a good enough reward for me.

Amalgamut is right. We can all do better (or try to anyway) but my ultimate goal is to get into the kingdom of heaven without experiencing the nightmare of St. Peter saying "Hmmm. Thats odd... your name dosent seem to be in the book of life."



Having to hear those words would strike me into an instant terror. I would rather hear hitler say "Well vavelva, i think that if we cut of all of your limbs and remove your organs while you're alive, we would have better results of genetic engineering. oh and this isnt a choice."

I am both touched and confused about all your comments

Some I can see generally mean well. Others there are a few points I would like to clear up.

Almalgamut: If God turned to me and said 'well you could have done better'...I would be extremely upset! If I had lived my life the best I could and tried my hardest to lead a good, clean and healthy life and that's all God had to say to me...To be honest, I would not be too happy!

Sam: Even though I am not a christian I will pray that one day when the time is right you are reunited with your grandfather and the rest of your family and have the relationship with them that you lost during your life on Earth.
To bring the upbeat I hope God gives your family a huge house, with a pool and cocktails all round!

Vavlea: I'm pleased you've found something in life which has made you happy. A lot of humans don't take the chance when it arrives. I'm happy to hear that you have a path in life. And you are content in the choices you make. Whether it be from God or not.

The same goes for everyone else who feels that christianity (or any other religion for that matter) has changed their lives for the better.

While I feel it did me no good being christian...I am glad that it suits others

I'm sure he would say much better things to you Duke, I was just referring to me.

I doubt he'd say anything better about me

In my opinion, to have a belief is a reward in itself...I see many people who think that they have all the answers they need, when in fact, they're just trying to convince themselves of it...

however, we are all humans and it's in our nature to seek some reward for our actions, in various forms,of course..but I have to wonder..would a god give us the rewards we'd like, or the ones he'll think necessary?

in all fairness, things which were done with tremendous effort, enthusiasm, maybe even sacrifice are the ones which should be rewarded..but then again, seeing that you successfully completed something that took a lot of your part is a huge reward, and that satisfaction doesn't compare to anything, right?