SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a scientific group looking for radio signals from space is covering up a big signal they detected. -- Steven Greer, yes, Disclosure Steve, claims to have a mole inside SETI.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/


Theres the simple factor that extraordinary claims require, and in fact demand, extraordinary evidence. Whats being offered by Greer doesnt even bear a passing resemblance to such - he has nothing but rumor.



I really want to believe - I really do. But wat concerns me most about these fringe discoveries is that they often come accompanied with an agenda - that is, you have to buy the DVD or come to the conference. Are these people spreading valid information - or selling snake oil?

Then theres another simple factor that fails to occur to a certain crowd: If the government wanted it hushed up, Greer sure as hell wouldnt be on the radio about it, now, would he?

Bottom line, we do detect intelligent signals from space all the time, ours. Military satellites, space probes, weather satellites, etc. If SETI did pick up a signal from a secret military satellite, then it would make sense that the government might intervene. I am not saying that Greer is even within a glancing blow of reality, but I am saying that even if what he claims is correct, then it may not have anything to do with aliens at all.

The only people that could possibly find this convincing are the ones who desperately want to believe and will forego their self-respect and their logical thought processes to cling to it.

One last thing, I think these guys who come out and claim that SETI are covering up an alien signal fail to understand how most people would react if they really did find solid proof of one. I know Id have the data on the internet before the government got their unmarked black sedans out of the garage, confidentiality be damned. You can sue me or jail me later, some things are more important than one persons job, or freedom.

Oh, i see.

Now, the certified testimony of dozens of high level ranked officers are just rumors.

And what would you expect? that these people would take a copy of a highly classified document, when they were on duty? And being court martialed, losing their career and worst, maybe ended up in jail?

Sorry for my english.

I couldn't agree more, Hazard. It's unfortunate that people such as Greer, Icke, Hoagland, Hopkins, etc., turn the UFO mystery into a freak show. The gullible blindly believe the tripe these individuals spew out, while the hard core scoffers jump at the opportunity to use this nonsense to dissuade serious scientific study of UFOs. As long as these loons are making a buck with their drivel, the UFO phenomenon will never be taken seriously by the scientific community.

Another good post Haz.

Most people are very curious about the night sky, but unfortunately a lot of misinformation is spread, sometimes just plain silly information, many times it makes just enough sense for some people to believe it. The Disclosure nonsense about SETI is one of those times.

Technically if what these people say is classified they would already be in jail before they had a chance to talk in the first place.

When you break a silence clause no matter what position in the army or what have you working for the government or a company working with the government you automatically get nailed for treason which in a lot of nations is punishable by death. Take a guy like Bob Lazar for example if he did what he said he did he most likely would have been either killed or arrested discreetly and transported to a secure holding facility to await trial and i seriously doubt he would be tried publically it would be done behind closed doors and he would have ended up just simply disappearing.

I forgot to address this point and I feel this is important as well. Did anyone ever consider that this certified testimony can't be backed up with solid physical proof. There is another possibility for why these men may have said what they did and that it may be due to an on going operation of some kind like a psy-op or a dis-info operation to keep everyone off of their trails while they worked and continue to work in secret.

Of course starting nearly 60 years ago with Roswell by accident when a military test went wrong. Ironically enough The New Mexico facility did do secret tests of early rocket and jet propulsion in the area as well. In order of course to keep what they were working on a secret from the Russians they came out with a BS balloon story and started the alien craft theories as well. Realistically what would be better cover then that of deceit and illuding everybody by sending not only the beleivers but the skeptics as well of course. One side claims balloon the other claims aliens and yet at the same time while people fight over who's right it provided the perfect cloak for paperclip and other secret programs at the time.

No they did not start rumors they started theory after theory and everyone ate it up. After all I beleive the saying goes "The bigger the lie, the more people will buy". It seems almost blatently obvious that this whole thing was started to deceive and sidetrack not only those who beleive a cover-up occured and those who don't. One thing I can say is that there is definatly a cover-up of some sort but in all fairness at the same time those who beleive in an ET cover-up may want to reconsider the facts of the nearby airbase and the nature of some of the experiments and projects they worked on during that time period. Only reconsider because there are more Earthly possibilities for what could have happened and simply the odds certainly say military not alien.

I agree with your post Haz but personally i wouldn't lump all the disclosure project in there.
I think the claim that all these people are involved in some kind of disinformation campaign is more unlikely than their initial claims to have seen and worked on ET craft.
The more time goes on the more i'm sure that there are ET visitors lurking around somewhere.....The whole of the evidence is just too overwhelming for me i'm talking about the silver spheres that i ran a thread on
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...amp;hl=bogeyman
and also the evidence supplied in all prophecy guru's posts / threads,also what i've seen with my own eyes...Black ops or not i just dont believe we can create machines with the capabilities that have been seen.
Interestingly and perhaps off track slightly...i was looking at the reports on the Fatima visitations yesterday and it's weird that in the days preceding and after there were loads of silver sphere sightings and the visitations were always accompanied by flashes and lights in the sky....Whatever about anything else these spheres are real and i for one would sure like to know what they're about.To me they are the one UFO that theres loads of evidence for and i'd like to see them properly investigated

Two things mystify me about these recurrent paranoid claims that NASA is covering up evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence.

First, we’d love nothing more than to find such evidence and there is absolutely no reason at all for anyone to cover it up. NASA’s budget would skyrocket with such a discovery.

Second, anyone who thinks the government is capable of covering up something as monumental as this must not pay much attention to national political news. The government can’t even keep a stained blue dress a secret.

I dont know about that DB

We still wouldn't know about the U2 only for the Russians shot one down ....and it had been operating secretly for ten years at that stage....never mind all the years taken in design test and build....Also the F1 117 Stealth fighter was around a while before being uncovered.
As for reasons for cover up well i think there are loads ....but i dont want to sound like a conspiracy nut....i'm not.
I believe we should look at the totality of the evidence on its own merit and go from there.
I just think science seems to be showing us almost weekly now that the Universe is stranger then we could even begin to understand, for us to think it's impossible for an Alien species to comesee is probably more a reflection of our "infantile" (relatively speaking) understanding of things as a whole.

The people at SETI are trying to do something quite extraordinary– see if intelligent radio signals from space are reaching Earth. Again, I have to ask– isn’t this exciting enough? Can’t we let the scales fall from our eyes and see the Universe as it really is, and not have to make so much crap up about it?

To me,Greer’s claims are just so much hot air. Less even. They’re vacuum.

Well thats fair enough ...i'm not going to try and sway you from that.People can look at the same information and read different things into it and thats how it should be.
Greers claims to me are meaningless really ....It's the 400 plus ex intelligence et al that interests me.
Yes i can see a point of view whereby Greer could be making bucks from it BUT
not ALL the others.
I look and listen to their testimony and combine this with the thousands of eyewitness accounts (including my own) video's and photographs and i have reached a different conclusion to you.
What SETI does or doesn't do is really of no concern to me....if they find something ...great - if they dont ,so be it.....it proves nothing.
Theres still a nagging doubt in my mind whereby i want to see feel and touch the proof ...it's not happening yet but my instincts tell me there's something there.

Exactly, and this could have some far reaching ramifications. Just what if (speculation time) something of an extra-terrestrial nature has visited us, or will at some point in the future visit us? Will the evidence of such a remarkable event be taken seriously, or will it simply be swept aside as more of the "same old silly fringe nonsense"? It appears that the well has indeed been poisoned as regards anything having to do with UFOs.

A very true statement and yes it's very hard for us now to know where the Bull starts and the Truth ends ....but this doesn't mean theres no truth whatsoever in the hypothesis
"we are being visited by at least one alien species"
If all the theories spouted were true there wouldn't be any room left on the planet for us humans....The would have taken up all the room.
All the theories are not true ....None of the theories may be true ...but some part of some of the theories are true.....of this i'm confident.

The SETI folks are for the most part a bunch of astronomers who probably don’t even have security clearances. They are used to open discussion of ideas and broad examination of evidence. Getting them to shut up about something like this would be like telling a roomful of hungry babies to stop crying.

As far as my understand goes it’s easy to insinuate anything just by invoking anonymity. If Steven Greer doesn’t say who passed him that information because they are worried with their carriers, it will be literally impossible to check the veracity of such news. The only thing this silly story will do is to give points to the skeptic faction.


I think the SETI Enterprise is an honorable one, although its chances of success are presently low. It is probable that signals sent within or between highly advanced civilizations would be indistinguishable from background noise to us, so any signal that SETI detects is likely deliberately sent to communicate with us primates.

Think of our civilization as a cosmic Washoe. To send such a signal, they would have to know we were here and capable of listening. The volume of space in which it is possible to detect us is growing. So the odds do go up with time.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this ?
All the people who have passed him the information have appeared on the "witness testimony" video's.
These include but are not limited to

Ex NASA Employees
Ex Astronauts
Aviation industry executives
Ex Naval,Army,Air force intelligence officers
Ex Generals ,Brigadier Generals, Captains,Sergeants
Ex CIA , FBI, DNI Agents
Civilians,Scientists ....the list goes on and on and they're all there on camera squarely admitting what they know....
I'm presuming that you've watched these video's ?

His SETI connection.

Oh okay ...i thought you meant the other witnesses......I getcha

Other witnesses!!!??

Thats the whole problem right there! Everything that is presented concerning this topic always comes down to "You either believe or you dont.". What we need are facts, not opinions and eyewitness testimony from an Ex this or that. It doesnt matter if the entire world believes in aliens; if they are not real.

Might I remind everyone that there was a time when everyone believed in witches enough to execute thousands and thousands of people all over the world. Just because everyone believed in witches didnt make them a reality.

Dr. Greer, who is obviously dedicated to this project, made some statements at the beginning of this briefing. He said that the conference would disclose the truth about the subject of UFOs. He stated that the witnesses there "can and will prove that we are not alone".

His drive is to get the whole matter of alien life and alien technology exposed, because, in large part these alien technologies ("connected to extraterrestrials") ...


"...will solve the looming energy crisis...sure to sweep the planet in the coming decade;...will end global warming," etc.

The only problem with this is that no one presented anything evidentiary to indicate that extraterrestrial life exists, or that weve obtained technologies from them. There were merely testimonials about someones experience with UFO sightings, and of course a couple of completely unsubstantiated claims about actually cataloging "57 different "humanoid" species of alien life", as well as some discussion about alien technologies that have been supposedly obtained.

Nothing about that Disclosure conference proved anything at all. No evidence was provided, only peoples testimony. Unfortunately, Dr. Greers assertion fell far short of any standard of scientific proof.

These people all largely had secret or top secret clearances at one time, which is not a big deal (even Bill Kaysing, "father" of the ludicrous moon hoax notion, claimed a top secret clearance when he worked at Rockcetdyne in the late 50s and early 60s...and of course, Mr. Kaysing knows nothing at all of that which he speaks). And they revealed nothing at all top secret in their testimonies. One got the impression that they were, but they didnt. Anyone can say, "We examined, and classified 57 different alien species," but without anything to back that up, theres simply someone saying something. It's valueless.

I have never said that the possibility of extraterrestrial visitation is not a valid idea.

I did not dismiss DP without a second thought. I simply find it inconsequential based upon actually listening to what these people have said, and realizing all too well the sensationalistic claims of providing proof of extraterrestrial life have never materialized.

So...what is the idea?

That these are a couple of dozens of actors performing a hoax?

Or is all this people lying?



Sorry for my english.

There was a time when the gorilla was called a myth and now, we find that it is a reality.



I wouldn't go that far!


FAA Division Chief John Callahan

“For 6 years Mr. Callahan was the Division Chief of the Accidents and Investigations Branch of the FAA in Washington DC. In his testimony he tells about a 1986 Japanese Airlines 747 flight that was followed by a UFO for 31 minutes over the Alaskan skies. The UFO also trailed a United Airlines flight until the flight landed. There was visual confirmation as well as air-based and ground-based radar confirmation. This event was significant enough for the then FAA Administrator, Admiral Engen, to hold a briefing the next day where the FBI, CIA, President Reagan’s Scientific Study Team, as well as others attended. Videotape radar evidence, air traffic voice communications and paper reports were compiled and presented. At the conclusion of this meeting, the attending CIA members instructed everyone present that ‘"the meeting never took place" and that "this incident was never recorded." Not realizing that there was additional evidence, they confiscated just the evidence presented, but Mr. Callahan was able to secure videotape and audio evidence of the event.”

Japan Airlines Encounter Over Alaska

http://www.topsecrettestimony.com/demo/

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1321.htm

http://www.ufocasebook.com/jal1628.html



Captain Robert Salas---Malmstrom AFB Incidents

“Captain Salas graduated from the Air Force Academy and spent seven years in active duty from 1964 to 1971. He also held positions at Martin Marietta and Rockwell and spent 21 years at the FAA. In the Air Force, he was an air traffic controller and a missile launch officer as well as an engineer on the Titan 3 missiles. He testifies about a UFO incident on the morning of March 16, 1967 where 16 nuclear missiles simultaneously became non-operational at two different launch facilities immediately after guards saw UFOs hovering above.”

Malmstrom AFB UFO Incident

http://www.nicap.org/malmstrom67dir.htm

http://www.nicap.org/babylon/missile_incidents.htm


Neil Daniels: Airline Pilot

“Mr. Daniels is a pilot with over 30,000 of flight time spanning 59 years. He entered the Air Force and became a B-17 pilot surviving 29 combat missions. After leaving the Air Force he worked for United Airlines for 35 years. He tells about the time in March of 1977 when he was flying a commercial flight from San Francisco to Boston. The plane was on autopilot when by itself it began to bank left. He looked out the window and noticed a brilliant bright light. The first and second officers both saw it also. They were perplexed because all three compasses reported different readings.”

“ The DC-10 airplane was under the control of autopilot system #2 and was flying at 37,000 feet altitude. The entire sky was dark and clear ahead and above the airplane, except for a partial undercast with small clouds extending to about 20 miles ahead. The aircraft was flying at an indicated air speed of 275 knots (true air speed 530 knots). The aircraft was about half way between Buffalo and Albany, and had just changed from contact with the "FROM" VOR (Very-High-Frequency Omnidirectional Bearing) signal emanating from Buffalo to the "TO" signal from Albany. The aircraft was just south of Syracuse, New York.”

“Suddenly and unexpectedly, the airplane began to turn to the left, making a 15 degree bank. Within a few seconds, the First Officer and the Captain looked to the left side of their plane and saw an extremely bright white light at about their own altitude. Subsequently, the Flight Engineer also looked and saw the light source. It appeared to be perfectly round and its apparent diameter was about 3 degrees of arc. However, the Captain estimated the object to be about 1,000 yards away and to be about 100 feet in size,”

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc622.htm

Skyeagle and Orion are missing the point here,"evidence" that is quoted endlessly is "expert testimony".Lots of people with impressive credentials have claimed to see UFOs.

Ok, it might be safe to say that these witnesses has seen and experienced something,but just because you dont recognize an aerial phenomena doesnt mean that its an alien visitor. That requires additional evidence.

DB
You may not like it but Expert testimony is evidence.....Not proof mind you, but evidence.
Whether you choose to disregard or not is down to you.
Personally speaking 'when i see so many well placed persons who are prepared to say they saw this or that .....i will take it seriously.
Unless of course anyone can come up with a logical explanation as to why all these proffessional people should lie and make themselves out to be in front of their peers.

I stand corrected, I meant scientific hard evidence. Testimony from eyewitnesess means only that an airforce captain thinks that what he saw was an alien spaceship.

Well try and put yourself in that Airforce captains shoes for one minute okay.

Being a captain your probably level headed ,cool under pressure,have a good knowledge of what you're likely to encounter in the sky...and you have good leadership qualities.
You are probably one of the best pilots in your squadron,you have an excellent knowledge of whats possible for a state of the art plane to do and you know how to make it do it.
You will be perfectly aware of G forces and the angle of turn possible without being knocked out by said G forces,you are trained to be an expert observer and you will certainly be briefed on what any potential enemy might fire at you...

Now if you and hundreds like you say what you saw was probably an Alien spaceship.....I for one will certainly take it seriously

Its the word "probably" that bugs me,always have,that means that it could have been something else. Remember Occams razor. Again,no dice.

I understand and agree to a certain extent ,because we would all like the "proof" and not the evidence because we've had enough of this to last a lifetime....But - and yes theres a But if a highly trained observer sees a machine doing what he knows it's not possible for us to do in flight.....combined with all the other "evidence" well then the possibility of ET visitation may in some cases be the most plausible explanation.......imo

Folks, look at all these post replys. The government doesn't have to cover anything up..we do it ourselfs.
One person says yes, another says no then we toil around and around in it.
One lies and another adds to the story and bam, who knows whats going on.
Another thought about the disclosure project came to mind for me was, how do we know this isn't a blanket by a certain partisan party to just stop the space weapons program.
As I did some research on the individuals I noticed allot were democrats.
OK so you go out on a limb stating its to prevent our extraterrestrial friends from seeing our human war like genetics.
Sounds crazy and maybe it is but I feel its a push to stop weapons in space to congress regardless what reason was given.

You are right, it sounds a bit crazy.

Despite the considerable efforts of the few that believe they have seen or otherwise witnessed a UFO. Not one has been able to show proof that what they saw was of alien origin. Of course there is always going to be some things unexplainable. That is only because we do not see well what it is.

I have seen several things myself that I am pretty sure that people with less knowledge of the sky would have considered a UFO (One was the ISS, one a satelite, one was a distant helicopter with a search light and the other was Venus, apparently moving due to fast moving clouds.)

I think that all the known UFO cases so far have been cases of misidentification or hoaxes (some perpretrated by the observers and some on the observers.) As of yet I havent seen any evidence that would totally convince me of an Alien presence in any shape or form on Earth.

To label anything unidentified an alien space craft is a huge leap of unscientific nonsense.

Enough evidence has been presented that proves the flying objects were not those of mankind.



Experienced observers have detailed their encounters of many of that object. For an example, hypersonic 'flying saucers' conducting right-angled maneuvers, which were definitely not B-747s nor any conventional aircraft for that matter.



Satellites, Venus, and helicopters cannot conduct hypersonic right-angled maneuvers within the Earth's atmosphere and that is where the main difference lies.



No open-minded skeptic would dare to make such a flawed claim. You are implying that cosmonauts and astronauts, air traffic controllers, commercial and military pilots, astronomers and many scientist and other experienced observers who have described saucer-shaped flying objects in their sightings and encounters, as too visually inept to claim what they experienced.



In thousands of cases, the ETH out-weighs conventional explanations by the evidence

There seems to be a recurring theme ( or themes ) to a lot of these threads.
Generally speaking it appears that the people that are 'true believers' in so called extraterestial phenomena seem to also believe in various conspiracy theroies to account for the lack of irrifutable evidence. When you think about it, this is the perfect 'get out' clause for any reasoned argument.
''..oh yes, there is loads of evidence to prove that aliens are visiting us''...

''ok, can you please show it to me?''....

''ah, well i would but the government is hiding the real evidence,..sorry''.

Brilliant.

And I have read comments by certain members putting forward the notion that pilots, astronauts & military personel are very most credible witnesses when reporting u.f.os & must be taken seriously, then the same members writing pieces in the Conspiracy forum saying that nasa didn't land a man on the moon & the astronauts (trained military pilots) are a bunch of filthy liars.

That is an incorrect statement. The skeptics have been unable to refute certain evidence relating the UFO enigma.



Okay!

**********************


Seconds after Heading Speed Altitude
lock-on (degrees) (knots) (feet)

00 200 150 7000
01 200 150 7000
02 200 150 7000
03 200 150 7000
04 sharp 200 acceleration 150 6000
05 turn 270 = 22 g 560 6000
06 270 560 6000
07 270 570 6000
08 270 560 7000
09 270 550 7000
10 210 560 9000
11 210 570 10000
12 210 560 11000
13 210 570 10000
14 270 770 7000
15 270 770 6000
16 270 780 6000
17 270 790 5000
18 290 1010 4000
19 290 1000 3000
20 290 990 2000
21 290 990 1000
22 300 990 0000
22.5 300 980 0000 Break lock

*******************************

Now, show me where the above data has anything to do with any conventional aircraft of mankind.

That is no secret! Even government officials have stated there is a cover-up in progress. The Robertson Report of 1953 also spells it out quite clearly what should be done.


The Robertson Panel

The Panel had four consecutive days of formal meetings; in total, they met for about 12 hours. The first day, they viewed two amateur motion pictures of UFO's: the 1950 Montana UFO Film and 1952 Utah UFO Film (the latter was taken by Navy Chief Petty Officer Delbert C. Newhouse, who had extensive experience with aerial photography). Two Navy photograph and film analysts (Lieutenants R.S. Neasham and Harry Woo) then reported their conclusions: based on more than 1000 man hours of detailed analysis, the two films depicted objects that were not any known aircraft, creature or weather phenomena.

Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt then began a summary of Air Force efforts regarding UFO studies.


Now, for the rest of the story.


"The Robertson Panel concluded that a public relations campaign should be undertaken in order to "debunk" UFOs, and reduce public interest in the subject, and that civilian UFO groups should be monitored. There is evidence this is was carried out more than two decades after the Panel's conclusion;"

Kevin Randles and Hough note that there was a "CIA memo from 1976" which "tells how the agency is still having to 'keep in touch with reporting channels' in ufology (in other words, to spy on UFO groups." (Randles and Hough, 103)

EXACTLY,

Some of the the conspiracy/aliens on Earth believers sure know how to pick and choose the information they feel are for their case,they just ignore the rest.

Just imagine the world if science worked like that.

Ever heard of radar glitch,you know they do fail every now and then.

Well this could go round and round and it will because as we all know this argument simply moves from one thread to another.
I believe that theres ample evidence of ET visitation ....certainly enough to warrant serious legitimised investigation by a recognised scientific body....MIT perhaps or someone like this.
To simply brush off the evidence presented again and again as meteorites,swamp gas and balloons is in my opinion lazy and uninformed.
Yes it takes a leap of faith to start thinking that ET may be calling in now and again and a couple of years back i would have been in the no camp .....but not any more ,the evidence i've seen combined with what i've seen myself has convinced me that theres something there that is not being truthfully acknowledged by the powers that be. If that makes me sound like a conspiracy nut well so be it.

Well Bogey, I wouldn't say it is lazy and uninformed to come to the conclusion that certain incidents may have been explainable by something other than ET craft. You have to understand that a lot of people who remain skeptical, do so while still looking at the evidence that is presented. They simply interpret it differently. In there minds, if it can be explained by other means, it was probably caused by other means. This is understandable. The simplest explanation - more often than not - is the closest to the truth. However, I feel this topic is the "not".

I mostly agree.
Have you ever seen a government agency's UFO file? (a rhetorical question for those not familiar) They're not hiding anything...

I often wonder why some people see every plane, satellite, meteor, and radar blip as a ship from another planet.

Could it be for the same reason that people are religous they want a guiding light through the darkness. They want a being more powerful than themselves to exist in order to show them the truest path in life. People sometimes create things like this because they are afraid of what they dont understand and need something to explain it.

No matter what government on Earth releases report saying UFOs are misidentified mundane phenomena.

It wont matter, because the usual suspects will just claim its a coverup, and more rational people will see this is just more of the same, which has not helped in the past. Governments have been making studies like for years, and getting the same results. Why bother?

It would be far more interesting to spend that money on psychological research, trying to discover why some people see every plane, satellite, meteor, and radar blip as a ship carrying a transdimensional human from the future who wants to excoriate cow anuses and warn us about nuclear weapons. Like, we need to be told by some higher power that nukes are BAD TOYS???


Oh, one more thing, for you believers, if they really are out there, UFO is what
the Aliens call us,,,Ugly Food Objects,,,

Because they want to believe. It's the same reason some people see every UFO as a plane, satellite, meteor, or radar blip -- because they want to believe that's what it is.

Repeat that last sentence to yourself a couple of times.

wow really convincing evidence

could a years gas metre readings for all the sense it makes

You asked for proof and I provided it for you. The data shows an artificial object , which reacted to the interceptor's radar lock-ons and the heading and velocity changes automatically exclude conventional aircraft. Such maneuvers would have destroyed any aircraft and besides, aircraft are not capable of such maneuvers.

OK, two positions here have been soundly sneered at:

1. That there is no evidence because a government conspiracy is hiding it, which is proven by the lack of evidence.

2. That every ambiguous stimulus is an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Good job, guys. Now all of us who look seriously at UFO reports have to abandon those positions. Hooray! The problem is, we never held them.

No serious person does.

Maybe this is why posts refuting those positions never contain any quotes from posters who actually hold them. Such arguments appear to be replies to persons who do not, in fact, exist.

Arguing against positions your opponent does not in fact hold is called "straw man," and at this point I'm not seeing a lot else from the deniers. I hope things get more interesting soon.

Yes, I know what radar glitches are but the data presented was not the result of any radar glitch. Add to the fact that the flying object depicted in the data was also tracked by Lead's wingman and on ground-base radar systems as well and that is why I chose this particular data.

Anyone can go to any airport at night and see lights in the sky but no UFO report will be made unless something strange happens such as the incident at the Bariloche, Argentina airport where a huge flying object flew next to an airliner.

http://www.ufocom.org/UfocomS/usbariloche.htm

Satellites do not account for any UFO case file presented such as the 1952 Washington D.C. incidents. Radar blips have also recorded the performance characteristics of the flying objects and in many cases the radar blips were confirmed visually in the air and on the ground. So in those cases, satellites, meteors, conventional aircraft and planets were excluded by scientific means available. It is obvious that the following incident had nothing to do with meteors, satellites, planets, nor secret aircraft.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/washingtondc1952.html




They are not just out there, but down here as well. There are many confirmed SFOs as well.


Former Naval Commander Confirms USOs

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6550923926784564779

It's much easier that way... It dismisses a lot, while doing very little.

Dissed closure.. lol like it.

Personally, I think those deluded, cash strapped boys and girls at SETI are trying to jump on the Disclosure project bandwagon. See, if they can gain some extra media attention.
“Hey Mr. Greer, we’ve got a bit of gear”
“Yes, our deluded wild speculations are correct! Our giant salad bowl worked! Honestly.. Aliens use radio waves…sniff cough”

Let's take a look at what the government says when it releases reports to cover-up the UFO enigma.


1. In 1947, a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident.

2. In 1994, the government says that a weather balloon was not responsible for the Roswell incident.

3. In 1994, the government says that Project Mogul balloon train #4 was responsible for the Roswell incident.

Fact: Project Mogul flight records have revealed that Project Mogul balloon train #4 was cancelled and never flown.

4. The government said that Mogul balloon trains were classified.

Fact: Mogul balloon trains were not classified and those ballloon trains had tags attached identifying them as government property, along with questionaires for those who recovered downed Mogul balloon trains to further add their input as to how fast the balloon train decended and the location of the recovery. Reward tags were also attached for those who recovered downed Mogul balloon trains. The government never revealed in its 1994 Roswell report that Project Mogul balloon trains were occasionally recovered by ordinary civilians.

5. The government said that Project Mogul balloon trains were not revealed until years later.

Fact: Mogul balloon trains and their missions were revealed in newspapers back in July 1947.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Princeton_July12.html

6. The government stated in its 1997 Roswell Report that alien bodies people saw in 1947, were misidentified as test dummies and accident victims.

Fact: Test dummy operations did not take place until the 1950s. The accident victims were the result of accidents in 1956 and 1959.

***************************************

Claims of "alien bodies" at the Roswell Army Air Field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents:

) a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives; and,
) a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured.

http://www.af.mil/library/roswell/

******************************************

To further add,

http://www.cufos.org/airforce.htm

7. The government stated that UFOs over Washington D.C. in 1952 were the result of temperature inversion.

Fact: According to meteorologist and other experts and the Air Force's own scientific report of 1969, have said that temperature inversion could not have been responsible for incidents such as those that took place over our nation's capital in 1952.

["According to a 1969 study by the Air Force Environmental Technical Applications Center, the conditions needed to produce the UFO-like effects attributed to inversions cannot exist in the Earth's atmosphere."]

Menkello, F.V., "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages," USAF Environmental Technical Applications Center, 1969.

8. The government said that it covered up the flight of the U-2 during the 1950s by letting the public think that the U-2 was a UFO.

Fact: The government covered up the U-2 by identifying it as a high altitude weather aircraft, not an UFO.

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The U-2

7 May 1956
- NACA Director Dr. Hugh L. Dryden issues a press release stating that U-2 aircraft are conducting weather research for NACA with Air Force support from Watertown, Nevada.


22 May 1956

- A second press release is issued with cover story for U-2 aircraft operating overseas.


1 May 1960

- Francis Gary Powers is shot down near Sverdlovsk.


6 May 1960

- U-2 with fictitious NASA serial number and NASA markings is shown to news media to bolster cover story of NASA weather research flights with U-2.


7 May 1960

- Soviet Premier Kruschev announces capture and confession of Powers.


1960

- Dr. Hugh L. Dryden tells senate committee that some 200 U-2 flights carrying NASA weather instrumentation have taken place since 1956.


2 April 1971

- NASA receives two U-2C aircraft for high-altitude research. These were the first U-2s to actually be operated by the NACA or NASA, as opposed to the CIA or U.S. Air Force.

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/U-2/HTML/E-5442.html

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Beware of government reports that seek to distort the issue of UFOs.

India may be the first country to explain to the world about extra-terrestrial and UFO contacts – the secret debate is on

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/01-06a-05.asp


Navy photographic case, Brazil 1958:

Given these precautions and nearly fifty witnesses, it is not surprising that when the Brazilian Navy requested analysis of the film it was pronounced genuine and released to the press by the President of Brazil, Mr Joscelino Kubitschek.

http://www.ufologie.net/htm/brazil58.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/sec...0s/Photo300.htm


Chile UFO

CHILE, June 25, 2005-- Incredible images of an alleged UFO landing in the vicinity of Ultima Esperanza in Chile's 12th region were made known only a few days ago by the Agrupación de Investigaciones Ovniológicas de Chile (AION).

http://www.ufocasebook.com/chilelanding.html


The French Report on UFOs and Defense: A Summary

On Friday July 16, 1999 an important document was published in France entitled, UFOs and Defense: What must we be prepared for? ("Les Ovni Et La Defense: A quoi doit-on se préparer?"). This ninety-page report is the result of an in-depth study of UFOs, covering many aspects of the subject, especially questions of national defense. The study was carried out over several years by an independent group of former "auditors" at the Institute of Advanced Studies for National Defense, or IHEDN, and by qualified experts from various fields. Before its public release, it has been sent to French President Jacques Chirac and to Prime Minister Lionel Jospin.

http://www.cufos.org/cometa.html


Chinese UFO

"A shimmering blue and white object hovered past the cockpit window of the Xiamen Airlines plane as it started its decent into Nanjing. It drifted across the path of the passenger jet, the pilot later told officials, then accelerated sharply and disappeared at lightning speed into a bank of cloud."

"His story might have been dismissed as a delusion had it not been for the fact that two other pilots in different planes hundreds of kilometres apart independently radioed similar reports to air-traffic controllers within minutes of each other. One was flying a Shandong Airlines plane 120 kilometres north, also over Jiangsu Province. The second was flying 300 kilometres south over Tonglu, Zhejiang Province."


http://www.rense.com/general45/ecount.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/China.htm


Belgian UFO

“Among some of the better documented and investigatable cases that have occurred in the last decade is the rash of UFO sightings which took place over Belgium. Some very poignant factors make this case history extremely rare, with regards to how these cases usually run. Foremost of these determinants is the highly uncommon action of the Belgian government and Air Force, in being very open with their own verifications of the sightings with the public at large. “

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/belgium.htm


Iranian UFO

“One of the best documented UFO-aircraft incidents, when a UFO was observed flying over the restricted airspace of Tehran, Iran. Two U.S.-made F-4 Phantom II jet fighters of the Imperial Iranian Air Force were scrambled, but as the pilots closed in on the target, their communications and weapons systems were suddenly jammed. The incident was confirmed by high ranking officers of the Iranian Air Force and later documented by several agencies of the U.S. military.”

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case200.htm