Greg Kane has, thankfully, revamped one of the best sites on the web--Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth. Gone are the misnomers (rampant as they are) regarding Mithraism so forth and so on. Clearer and more defined are the links between Christianity and Paganism. Jesus is not a carbon copy deity of Mithraism for example, but an old car with new parts. As GREG writes:
For a number of reasons, the Jesus as a knock-off Mithras, etc. theory doesn't work so well. At POCM we are NOT talking about Christianity's Pagan origins as a knock-off copy of some Pagan religion.
What you will discover at POCM:
What you'll discover at POCM >Pagan Ideas is that many (but not all) ancient religions were religions of salvation. In general, ancient Mediterranean people believed they would live on after death, with good people having happier afterlives than bad people. Many religions were set up to give believers a better deal after death. What that better deal was depended on the religion: in some Greek mysteries it was the Elysian Fields; for followers of Isis and Osiris it was eternity with Osiris in Underground Heaven; for many philosophy/ religions it was return of the disembodied soul to the One God in the sky. Some ancient religions even called this "salvation." And it all predated Christianity by generations—by hundreds and hundreds of years.
I've been waiting for this overhaul for some time now--though Greg states he has "been reading, not updating." Ha-ha. It has arrived, and though I certainly don't agree with everything he says, POCM is far better for it.
POCM
http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html
Kindly,
Sean
Full Version: Christianity and Paganism
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
26 Reads and yet, one can hear a pin drop.
Ever the optimist, I believe it is because they're still reading.
((((running tackle hugs Sean)))))
Ever the optimist, I believe it is because they're still reading.
((((running tackle hugs Sean)))))
42 reads and still can hear the pin.
((((Pat on the back))))
((((Pat on the back))))
UMPH! Tackled by IF! 
Z 
I emailed Greg last night regarding Mithraism. Thought this information might be interesting to share.
The impact of Mithraism is a sticky issue. It is by far the older religion, going back to the 6-7 BCE and finding its mystery religion status in or around the 1 BCE (From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith, L. Michael White). It was well-known and extremely popular--being the religion of the Roman legions, emperors, and merchant class amongst others. It no doubt influenced Christianity. To what degree? Therein lies the debate. Here is what renowned conservative scholar Everett Ferguson has to say in his much hailed book BACKGROUNDS OF EARLY CHRISTIANITY: HELLENISTIC-ROMAN RELIGIONS:
274: Mithraism: . . . Mithras was called the sol invictus (“the unconquered sun”) and his birthday was celebrated on December 25. Another incident involving the a rock has Mithras shooting an arrow into a rock and thereby causing water to flow forth. Mithras brought not only light but also refreshing rain. The portrayal of water comin[I]g from a rock and men drinking it is strikingly similar to the portrayal of the water miracle in Christian art.
274: Mithraism: Similarities between Christianity: . . . From one perspective, Mithras was the superior deity; from another the two gods associated with the sun are united as world rulers. The meal shows them sharing bread, drink (normally offered in rhyton, a bulls horn cup), and other food. The meal could precede or follow an ascent of Mithras to heaven in a chariot (the journey of the sun was regularly shown in Hellenistic-Roman art as a rider in a chariot). The iconography of the ascent directly parallels the ascent of Elijah in Christian art.”
277: Mithraism: (7) Father (Pater). The highest grade of Mithraic initiation . . . His symbols at Ostia are a ring (or is it a dish?) and a staff, the Persian cap, and a sickle. For the ring and staff one may compare the symbols of the bishop’s office in the Middle Ages, and for the title “father” the practice of calling the head of the Christian community this attested as early as the third century.
277: Mithraism: Baptism, laying on of hands etc.: According to the paintings at Santa Maria Capua Vetere and other pictures the initiate was led through the ceremonies naked (cf. the baptism practice of the early church) and was at first blindfolded. The art further indicates such actions as a laying on of hands, pouring on of water, striking with the leg of a bull, placing a solar crown on the head, and fire held close to the body. Several sources indicate various ordeals through which the Mithraic initiate passed, but we do not know how much credence to put in some of these sources. Masks were worn for some ceremonies. A pretend slaying of the initiate has been thought probable. New discoveries and more study will perhaps give a clearer picture and permit a correlation with the different degrees.
*Essays on Ancient Rome: Mithraism (University of Evanssville)
http://eawc.evansville.edu/essays/mithraism.htm
The very fact that early church fathers went on the defensive against the Mysteries, saying they were deceptions of the Devil, goes a long way in showing who was first and who borrowed from whom.
... Like their modern counterparts, early apologists sought to distinguish the Christian rites of initiation from those celebrated by others. Justin Martyr (ca. 150 CE), for example, claimed that the pagan mysteries were demonic counterfeits of the true mysteries of Christ. Yet by the fourth century, as the church adapted to Hellenistic culture, the mystŸria of Christ reflected both the terminology and the structure of the ancient mystery cults.--GREGORY SHAW, Professor of Religious Studies at Stonehill College
The following was written by Editor Kerry Temple, Ph.D. in Notre Dame Magazine, the official quarterly publication of the University of Notre Dame:
... Many of the stories about Jesus contained in these ancient documents [Gospels, canonical and not] Kannengiesser says, were tales commonly applied to mythical figures and heroes of the time. “It was almost obligatory to have such stories available,” the theologian says; “they were stock stories told to convert people to Jesus.” Tales of virgin births, divine heroes, and miracles workers were relatively common 2,000 years ago and simply did not mean what they do to us today. [My emphasis, for this is central to this article by Kerry Temple]
One such mythical hero was Mithras, a Persian deity introduced to Rome midway through the first century, shortly before the synoptic gospels were written.4 He, too, was said to have been sent by a father-god to vanquish darkness and evil in the world. Born of a virgin (a birth witnessed only by shepherds), Mithras was described variously as the Way, the Truth, the Light, the Word, the Son of God, and the Good Shepherd and was often depicted carrying a lamb upon his shoulders.5
Followers of Mithras celebrated December 25 by ringing bells, singing hymns, lighting candles, giving gifts, and administering a sacrament of bread and water. Between December 25 and the spring equinox (Easter, from the Latin for earth goddess) came the 40 days’ search for Osiris, a god of justice and love. The cult also observed Black Friday, commemorating Mithras’ sacrificial bull slaying, which fructified the earth. Worn out by the battle, Mithras is symbolically represented as a corpse and is placed in a sacred rock tomb from which he is removed after three days in a festival of rejoicing….
The following is from Professor Richard Hines, Washington State University:
Christianity is dualistic. Christianity conceives of the universe as essentially dualistic in much the same terms as Zoroastrianism and Essene Judaism, from which Christianity is derived. In foundational Christianity, the universe is divided between two rougly equal forces—a force of good and a force of evil—which are in constant conflict. This conflict is largely played out in individuals rather than in some grand physical battle, as in Zoroastrianism.
Foundational Christianity is dualistic in another sense—it also conceives of the universe as divided into two poles, one associated with the divine and spiritual world and the other associated with the material world, the stage on which human history is played out. Of the two worlds, one's proper attention is focussed on the divine and spiritual world.
... Foundational Christianity builds on a concept introduced into Judaism through the Persian religion, Zoroastrianism. Christianity asserts that salvation is an aspect of one's life after one has died—it is not an aspect of the material world. Salvation, however, is not open to everyone; the alternative is an afterlife of punishment. While foundational Christianity is vague about the nature of the afterlife in terms of salvation, it's clear from statements of Jesus of Nazareth and later writers that the Christian afterlife of punishment is one of retributive justice. This afterlife of punishment was unorthodox in Judaism, but had been introduced into popular Judaism through Persian culture. As Jesus of Nazareth developed his ethics and theology, the circumstances of the afterlife, both good and bad, began to loom very large. By the time Christianity moves into the hands of Jesus's immediate followers, the afterlife, both the saved and non-saved version, have become the central concern of the religion....
... Mithraism was an offshoot of Persian Zoroastrianism. It shared the same texts and same basic beliefs, such as the final judgement and the conflict between good and evil forces. In Zoroastriansm, Mithra was the sun-god who was a divine lieutenant of the supreme god, Ahura-Mazda. Mithraism, however, worshipped Mithra for a different function.
This competition between Mithraism and Christianity heated up in the second and third centuries AD; both religions converted each others' followers fairly aggressively. Eventually, early Christians would fold some aspects of Mithraism into Christianity. For instance, for the Mithraists, the death and rebirth of Mithra represented the solar cycle since Mithra was the sun god. The most important ceremony for the Mithraists was the birth of Mithra which was determined appropriately as the winter solstice. Early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ and nowhere in any of the histories is the date of Jesus' birth set down. In their attempt to deal with Mithraism, they folded the celebration of Mithra's birth at the winter solstice into a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, also held at the winter solstice, Christmas...
That said, many scholars believe there was probably borrowing going on both ways. My opinion is that Mithraism did influence Christianity and vice-versa. Again, conservative scholar Everett Ferguson discusses this in his book Backgrounds of Early Christianity as does L. Michael White in his work From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith.
Here are a few academic other sources:
*From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith by L. Michael White
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006052655...ce&n=283155
*Backgrounds of Early Christianity (Paperback) by Everett Ferguson
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080280669...ce&n=283155
*The Cult of Mithras
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/gnosis/mithra.html
*Mystery Religions (Rutgers University)
http://virtualreligion.net/vri/grk_rom3.html#Mysteries
*Persian Religions (Fordham University)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asb...######Religions
... The Egyptian cult and Mithraism were two of the great religious movements of the time and certainly would have posed some of the most difficult competition for Christianity...
*SOURCE: From Jesus to Christ
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ait/empire.html
Kindly,
Sean
Z
I emailed Greg last night regarding Mithraism. Thought this information might be interesting to share.
The impact of Mithraism is a sticky issue. It is by far the older religion, going back to the 6-7 BCE and finding its mystery religion status in or around the 1 BCE (From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith, L. Michael White). It was well-known and extremely popular--being the religion of the Roman legions, emperors, and merchant class amongst others. It no doubt influenced Christianity. To what degree? Therein lies the debate. Here is what renowned conservative scholar Everett Ferguson has to say in his much hailed book BACKGROUNDS OF EARLY CHRISTIANITY: HELLENISTIC-ROMAN RELIGIONS:
274: Mithraism: . . . Mithras was called the sol invictus (“the unconquered sun”) and his birthday was celebrated on December 25. Another incident involving the a rock has Mithras shooting an arrow into a rock and thereby causing water to flow forth. Mithras brought not only light but also refreshing rain. The portrayal of water comin[I]g from a rock and men drinking it is strikingly similar to the portrayal of the water miracle in Christian art.
274: Mithraism: Similarities between Christianity: . . . From one perspective, Mithras was the superior deity; from another the two gods associated with the sun are united as world rulers. The meal shows them sharing bread, drink (normally offered in rhyton, a bulls horn cup), and other food. The meal could precede or follow an ascent of Mithras to heaven in a chariot (the journey of the sun was regularly shown in Hellenistic-Roman art as a rider in a chariot). The iconography of the ascent directly parallels the ascent of Elijah in Christian art.”
277: Mithraism: (7) Father (Pater). The highest grade of Mithraic initiation . . . His symbols at Ostia are a ring (or is it a dish?) and a staff, the Persian cap, and a sickle. For the ring and staff one may compare the symbols of the bishop’s office in the Middle Ages, and for the title “father” the practice of calling the head of the Christian community this attested as early as the third century.
277: Mithraism: Baptism, laying on of hands etc.: According to the paintings at Santa Maria Capua Vetere and other pictures the initiate was led through the ceremonies naked (cf. the baptism practice of the early church) and was at first blindfolded. The art further indicates such actions as a laying on of hands, pouring on of water, striking with the leg of a bull, placing a solar crown on the head, and fire held close to the body. Several sources indicate various ordeals through which the Mithraic initiate passed, but we do not know how much credence to put in some of these sources. Masks were worn for some ceremonies. A pretend slaying of the initiate has been thought probable. New discoveries and more study will perhaps give a clearer picture and permit a correlation with the different degrees.
*Essays on Ancient Rome: Mithraism (University of Evanssville)
http://eawc.evansville.edu/essays/mithraism.htm
The very fact that early church fathers went on the defensive against the Mysteries, saying they were deceptions of the Devil, goes a long way in showing who was first and who borrowed from whom.
... Like their modern counterparts, early apologists sought to distinguish the Christian rites of initiation from those celebrated by others. Justin Martyr (ca. 150 CE), for example, claimed that the pagan mysteries were demonic counterfeits of the true mysteries of Christ. Yet by the fourth century, as the church adapted to Hellenistic culture, the mystŸria of Christ reflected both the terminology and the structure of the ancient mystery cults.--GREGORY SHAW, Professor of Religious Studies at Stonehill College
The following was written by Editor Kerry Temple, Ph.D. in Notre Dame Magazine, the official quarterly publication of the University of Notre Dame:
... Many of the stories about Jesus contained in these ancient documents [Gospels, canonical and not] Kannengiesser says, were tales commonly applied to mythical figures and heroes of the time. “It was almost obligatory to have such stories available,” the theologian says; “they were stock stories told to convert people to Jesus.” Tales of virgin births, divine heroes, and miracles workers were relatively common 2,000 years ago and simply did not mean what they do to us today. [My emphasis, for this is central to this article by Kerry Temple]
One such mythical hero was Mithras, a Persian deity introduced to Rome midway through the first century, shortly before the synoptic gospels were written.4 He, too, was said to have been sent by a father-god to vanquish darkness and evil in the world. Born of a virgin (a birth witnessed only by shepherds), Mithras was described variously as the Way, the Truth, the Light, the Word, the Son of God, and the Good Shepherd and was often depicted carrying a lamb upon his shoulders.5
Followers of Mithras celebrated December 25 by ringing bells, singing hymns, lighting candles, giving gifts, and administering a sacrament of bread and water. Between December 25 and the spring equinox (Easter, from the Latin for earth goddess) came the 40 days’ search for Osiris, a god of justice and love. The cult also observed Black Friday, commemorating Mithras’ sacrificial bull slaying, which fructified the earth. Worn out by the battle, Mithras is symbolically represented as a corpse and is placed in a sacred rock tomb from which he is removed after three days in a festival of rejoicing….
The following is from Professor Richard Hines, Washington State University:
Christianity is dualistic. Christianity conceives of the universe as essentially dualistic in much the same terms as Zoroastrianism and Essene Judaism, from which Christianity is derived. In foundational Christianity, the universe is divided between two rougly equal forces—a force of good and a force of evil—which are in constant conflict. This conflict is largely played out in individuals rather than in some grand physical battle, as in Zoroastrianism.
Foundational Christianity is dualistic in another sense—it also conceives of the universe as divided into two poles, one associated with the divine and spiritual world and the other associated with the material world, the stage on which human history is played out. Of the two worlds, one's proper attention is focussed on the divine and spiritual world.
... Foundational Christianity builds on a concept introduced into Judaism through the Persian religion, Zoroastrianism. Christianity asserts that salvation is an aspect of one's life after one has died—it is not an aspect of the material world. Salvation, however, is not open to everyone; the alternative is an afterlife of punishment. While foundational Christianity is vague about the nature of the afterlife in terms of salvation, it's clear from statements of Jesus of Nazareth and later writers that the Christian afterlife of punishment is one of retributive justice. This afterlife of punishment was unorthodox in Judaism, but had been introduced into popular Judaism through Persian culture. As Jesus of Nazareth developed his ethics and theology, the circumstances of the afterlife, both good and bad, began to loom very large. By the time Christianity moves into the hands of Jesus's immediate followers, the afterlife, both the saved and non-saved version, have become the central concern of the religion....
... Mithraism was an offshoot of Persian Zoroastrianism. It shared the same texts and same basic beliefs, such as the final judgement and the conflict between good and evil forces. In Zoroastriansm, Mithra was the sun-god who was a divine lieutenant of the supreme god, Ahura-Mazda. Mithraism, however, worshipped Mithra for a different function.
This competition between Mithraism and Christianity heated up in the second and third centuries AD; both religions converted each others' followers fairly aggressively. Eventually, early Christians would fold some aspects of Mithraism into Christianity. For instance, for the Mithraists, the death and rebirth of Mithra represented the solar cycle since Mithra was the sun god. The most important ceremony for the Mithraists was the birth of Mithra which was determined appropriately as the winter solstice. Early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ and nowhere in any of the histories is the date of Jesus' birth set down. In their attempt to deal with Mithraism, they folded the celebration of Mithra's birth at the winter solstice into a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, also held at the winter solstice, Christmas...
That said, many scholars believe there was probably borrowing going on both ways. My opinion is that Mithraism did influence Christianity and vice-versa. Again, conservative scholar Everett Ferguson discusses this in his book Backgrounds of Early Christianity as does L. Michael White in his work From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith.
Here are a few academic other sources:
*From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith by L. Michael White
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006052655...ce&n=283155
*Backgrounds of Early Christianity (Paperback) by Everett Ferguson
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080280669...ce&n=283155
*The Cult of Mithras
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/gnosis/mithra.html
*Mystery Religions (Rutgers University)
http://virtualreligion.net/vri/grk_rom3.html#Mysteries
*Persian Religions (Fordham University)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asb...######Religions
... The Egyptian cult and Mithraism were two of the great religious movements of the time and certainly would have posed some of the most difficult competition for Christianity...
*SOURCE: From Jesus to Christ
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ait/empire.html
Kindly,
Sean
Beautiful!
I often find my self wondering what scares people about the evidence of religious practice, that is older and different than their own?! As if to say when the world was first brought to life and humans were created upon it, the _____________faith (insert religion of choice) was practiced by everyone created. Especially when there is evidence that certain of those people practiced pantheism. I.E. lived in community with the essence of that which created all things.
As in the topic of this thread, christianity and paganism. How does evidence of paganism that antedates the practice of christianity, threaten faithful christians today?! How can what exists as evidence of faith in gods and goddesses long before the father image of the christians god, abridge the spirit of yahweh and the legend of jesus!?
If one claims christianity is the first religion or the only true faith , then that would imply all other faiths were born of it. And if one believes what exists in the archaeological record, of polytheism then yahweh is in keeping with that spirit of many gods/godesses, and as such is one with the pantheistic spirit.
See, I think the icons of faith fall away in the decay of the ages, yet the one constant people seem to have is the need to believe there is a reason for everything. And in order to flesh that out, and make it a comfortable way of life, so one doesn't have to face the prospect that we're all alone here together, where that which created everything with us, isn't particular about us.
And that's where it all gets violent. On every level of what amounts to a united and conscious sense of individualism. Body and mind, we each commit to what we believe being here is all about. (Even atheists and agnostics. One has but to Google the word, to find websites that espouse those philosophies and some are just as adamant as the most ardent of christian.)
And I think that's why those that put faith in a spirit create effigies, so they can see for themselves what they think is there, in that relationship. One has but to look across this world, underground, through the strata that are the tombstones that cover the ages, and see for ones self.
Like those articles in this thread would relate, of clay goddess and god figures, discovered of most every culture. The Willendorf goddess being one of the oldest. The great mother of the world.
They are all there, in our past. Waiting to be discovered so the histories can be refreshed with new evidence, of faith in something outside ourselves. So why is it that unearthing what our ancestors created, over time, causes contention in the faithful of one particular religious myth today!? When our history proves, everyone that's ever been here always seemed to need something different and personal, to believe in.
Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to be about sweeping up all these pins....
I often find my self wondering what scares people about the evidence of religious practice, that is older and different than their own?! As if to say when the world was first brought to life and humans were created upon it, the _____________faith (insert religion of choice) was practiced by everyone created. Especially when there is evidence that certain of those people practiced pantheism. I.E. lived in community with the essence of that which created all things.
As in the topic of this thread, christianity and paganism. How does evidence of paganism that antedates the practice of christianity, threaten faithful christians today?! How can what exists as evidence of faith in gods and goddesses long before the father image of the christians god, abridge the spirit of yahweh and the legend of jesus!?
If one claims christianity is the first religion or the only true faith , then that would imply all other faiths were born of it. And if one believes what exists in the archaeological record, of polytheism then yahweh is in keeping with that spirit of many gods/godesses, and as such is one with the pantheistic spirit.
See, I think the icons of faith fall away in the decay of the ages, yet the one constant people seem to have is the need to believe there is a reason for everything. And in order to flesh that out, and make it a comfortable way of life, so one doesn't have to face the prospect that we're all alone here together, where that which created everything with us, isn't particular about us.
And that's where it all gets violent. On every level of what amounts to a united and conscious sense of individualism. Body and mind, we each commit to what we believe being here is all about. (Even atheists and agnostics. One has but to Google the word, to find websites that espouse those philosophies and some are just as adamant as the most ardent of christian.)
And I think that's why those that put faith in a spirit create effigies, so they can see for themselves what they think is there, in that relationship. One has but to look across this world, underground, through the strata that are the tombstones that cover the ages, and see for ones self.
Like those articles in this thread would relate, of clay goddess and god figures, discovered of most every culture. The Willendorf goddess being one of the oldest. The great mother of the world.
They are all there, in our past. Waiting to be discovered so the histories can be refreshed with new evidence, of faith in something outside ourselves. So why is it that unearthing what our ancestors created, over time, causes contention in the faithful of one particular religious myth today!? When our history proves, everyone that's ever been here always seemed to need something different and personal, to believe in.
Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to be about sweeping up all these pins....
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