Some of you may know of the history of the 200 fallen angels as per Enoch. What you don't know is that when those angels fell Enoch ascended and became one of the highest angels in all of Heaven. Almost NO angel could talk to God but through Enoch. Little beknown to Enoch he was part of a plan to cast out angels and have the world destroyed by none other than dear old Satanail. His jealousy destroyed both human and angel and he found a way back into Heaven through Enoch. It was a set-up. Where once he refused to bow down to 'a son of clay' because he was a 'son of fire' he later bowed down and 'cowered' before Enoch turned Metatron. Then he went whinging to God about what those 'evil angels' were doing on Earth. He even had a few of them handed over to himto do his dirty work as accusing angels.

Should angels be allowed to have free will? Should they be allowed to marry? You decide.

here's a question to start with. SHould the book of Enoch be taken seriously? DO you know the history of Enoch's writing? Do you know it may not have been written by enoch?

1. How can we tell who's an angel and who's a human?
2. What's this about angels getting married? If they are masquerading as humans, why can't they just marry anyway?
3. I'd say this is God's decision, not ours. Unless angels are a minority that have civil rights protection under the Bill of Rights (or other governmental decrees). In which case, it depends on whether or not they want a homosexual marriage.

1. You can't.
2. Just because they look human doesn't mean they are and they can descend at any time. Should they marry they may be in deep.
3. It is God's decision, but it's also man's as from historical times man complained that they were 'destroyed' by the secrets of heaven which the angels gave away to humans.

Ashley I would suggest you see a mental doctor. Some of the stuff you say is *cukoo* catch my drift?

So, are we talking about biblical angels here?

There are many different types of angels, Archangels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Irin Qaddism, etc. There is also a heirachy.

Yes, but what I mean is what tradition are these angels coming from? What they sound like are a biblical tradition of angels rather than say, a Mayan tradition of higher beings. Plus, last I checked, Zuni religion says nothing about fallen angels in this sense.

To me it sounds more like a biblical tradition. At the least, it sounds like a tradition from a specific culture. So I want to know if this is something that is applied globally and when this whole falling thing occurred, and how in the world it can fit in with traditions from cultures that have no concept of it.

I think that's important before we decide whether or not angels can marry. Personally, I don't see why not. Unless it means the destruction of the earth, in which case they should just have lots of premarital sex.

The 'gods' of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans etc are angels, and also have God the Father, (Yahweh/El Shaddai Adonai) or by any other name. Like 'eh eh ra, Yahweh ye ra' is the same as Ra to the Egyptians. God Himself said 'I will make ye gods' to the angels. In other words God put them in charge of different things on Earth and in the Heavens.

God was greatly angered by the progency of the angels, the Nephilim.

Where, in God's name, are you getting this information?

Seriously.

Angels marrying? What?

You are making the most basic and amateur mistake, you are applying human attributes to a higher form of being. (ref. Augustine's Hierarchy, look it up if you don't know what it is, might help with this discussion. I'll explain if you can't find the info.)



Really like to know where you got this.

The concept of Nephilim is rediculous. How does a being, without body, concieve a child with a human? They aren't God, thus they can't pull a Jesus.

Also, really wondering where the concept that the Greek and Roman gods are biblical or koranic angels (which is how you phrased the terminology of your post).

Aside from all of this, the question of whether or not fallen angels deserve a second chance is a two part answer.

1. Not up to us.
2. Already been decided. (The answer is no, if we are basing it on the Bible, which, is a nessescity when discussing beings FROM the Bible/Koran). Not trying to come off as a fanatic here, since I'm not. Just couching responses based on the sources referenced.

--Marty

Hey WOW!

I wonder if I am actually an Angel..............dum dum duuuuuuum.

I find your posts fascinating AshleyStar*child. I have not heard of some of these stories before. Please keep posting!

You still are saying that this applies globally, but you're talking about cultures and religions that only fill a small section of the planet. How do the Inuit apply to this?

Inuit angels have wings, but don't fly. They mostly waddle and swim.

Oh great, now I can't stop picturing them hang-gliding.

Are these the same so called secrets that you are apparently supposed to be giving in your other thread.

So "Gods" not the only god then?

God knows and sees everything. He does not need spys, weather on earht nor in the heavens.

Otherwise he would not be God. Or?

Why doesn't he need weather?

Did I misspell it again?

Wether, I guess?

there is a garden were the most enlighten can go and see that tomb of the father our god
and jesus has brought us to the door ,but who can open and walk on through

Oh, gotcha. Sorry, my brain has been a little fried lately. Too many late nights.



Is this in Cape Breton?

Whether. Now I got it right. Yahooo.

The bible. Genesis 6:4 to be exact.

The bible clearly states that angles married humans and created offsping. Now, whether you chose to believe the bible or not is a different matter. But "biblically" it did happen.


Check out Genesis 6:4 to give you the basics.

"In those days, when the sons of the gods had intercourse with the daughters of men and got children by them, the Nephilim were on earth. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

Though this says "sons of gods" plural, rather than god as a single being. So it makes me wonder if this was saying the "gods" were angels or if they were powerful beings akin to the Greek deities and demigods.

Just curious but what version of the bible are you using here? And you sure that it says "sons of gods," and not "sons of god?" The NIV says "sons of God," and the KJV doesn't mention the Nephilim at all. Just wondering what version this is.

It's the New English Bible, and yes, it does say "sons of the gods." I double-checked.

Here's what the other Bibles I have say:

Good News Bible (Catholic Good Shepherd Edition): "In those days, and even later, there were giants on the earth who were descendants of human women and the supernatural beings. They were the great heroes and famous men of long ago."

Seniors' Devotional Bible (NIV): "The Nephilim were also on the earth in those days---and also afterward---when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

New King James Version: "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

King James Version (distributed by LDS Church, NOT Book of Mormon): "There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Unknown - British printed in 1926, probably KJV: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Authorized KJV: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

I could paste the section from Isaac Asimov's Guide to the Bible that deals with this, but it's mostly a bit of the actual passage and several pages of explanation. Though it also talks about the Nephilim.

I was going to look in my Torah, but it's in Hebrew and I can't read it.

Thats ok don't feel bad...I can't either

EDIT// Hey this הנּפלים is Hebrew for "Nephilim."

Can you see those letters ? I don't know if they are going to show up on this forum or not.

the cape breton of then was named after the ocean that surrounds it and plato gives us that name,but in the bible it's from the western side because of the father is of influents.

One theory is that the sons of God are the descendants of Seth, the godly line of Adam The daughters of men are then seen as the descendants of Cain. . However, taking a look at every other instance of the phrase "Sons of God" or "Son of God" in the Old Testament, it becomes clear that the reference is to a spiritual creature of some sort. This is in contrast to the New Testament's use of the phrase, where it can refer to man or spiritual being. This leads us to the second theory: is that the sons of God are angels who came to earth and had children with the daughters of men.

"Son of fire" "and refused to bow to a son of clay"? Did you get thtat from the Koran. And if you did Iblis isnt a angel hes a Jinn.

And the only time Satanail is ever mentioned is in Job and he was an accusing angel thats his job. He wasnt against god, infact it was just a story. Im not saying all the bible is make believe just the book on Job. Its a good story at that, specialy when god lays down his pimp hand and tells Job whats what.

And it wasnt saying angels had sex with human women. Do you realy think they would have been made with a sex drive (a strong one at that to risk damnation) or a sex organ and not have female angels around. And If there were female angels around do you think smart monkeys would have looked better to them.
They defiled themselves with the flesh of women. They saw the daughters of man and desired them. In other words possesing earthly bodies. They defiled themselves by becoming human. And yes that would make Jesus a nephlim (had to throw that joke out).
See Angels are suppose to represent order and pure intelligence, while demons were always emotion, chaotic beings.


Now weither this is true and this is where the stories of Gods and Titans came from or if it was organized religion trying to demonize local shamans. Who knows.

And the only mention that I found of not all of Eves children being Adams sons is in early christian writing. And then Seth was the only child that was adams. The other two were from the Archons raping eve.

Angels can take on human form at any time and yes they had sexual orgrgans 'like horses' I quote. No I'm not quoting the Koran at all go read 'The Life of Adam and Eve' and I'm quite aware that Satanail isn't against God, quite the contrary he wants to be the ONLY one in Heaven with God mono e mono and he has fun with his job as prince of accusing angels because he despises everypne but God and jumps up and down like a two year old saying 'Look Father look what so and so did, let me fix them for you' hence why God has to burn the tablets of Satanail because He doesn't want to hear about it. God doesn't even wish to destroy him, Satanail does the destroying.

Your reading text written by mystery schools there not meant to be taken literaly.

Satanail is a translation of a Hebrew word that means Adversary. If you translated the actualy word it would be Adversary.
Hes only a "accusing angel" in the book of job and even then hes realy just mans adversary.

See when you read job your suppose to identify Satan with all the hardships of life that makes you question god.

The story of enoch well thats mostly babylonian. Just dont read one book or one religion read them all. It is said prophets are only given a glimpse of the truth.

Satanail is THE prince of accusing angels and once God's favorite, and God still has a soft spot for him. He WAS cast out due to not bowing before Adam when he was ordered to do so, but got his way back in through Enoch. God sends, when Satanail whinges, him to test humans and angels alike for their devotion to God. Job eventually passed the test. Adam and Eve did not. Satanail, being once the closest to God knows a secret even the other angels did not, that when the Mirror of Truth is shown up to him he shows that he has pure intent and that ALL he does is for love of God. That is why, in some cases God listens to him. And yes he is the prosecuting attorney and adversary of humans. Metatron/Enoch is the accusing angel of angels.

Enoch is Ethiopian not Babylonian.

Yep, but I don't think this theory holds water too well.

Yep, I think and this is exactly how Genesis 6:4 reads. It makes it pretty clear.

Thanks for clearing that up for the readers here Amal

I know this is old but I think its interesting.

I have a question though. But I think I just answered it.
Satanail is never gonna stop is he?

The question is when will we stop?


When will we stop blaming the Satan or God for the actions that WE do.

I highly doubt it. On a personal note he's a real conceited MF. But oooh can't say a bad word about him or he goes running to Daddy (i.e. God).

Fun stuff! I make my judgements on what ive seen and heard, personally. One angel, a 2 metre high pillar of light ; one angel, looking just like a human being , both of "whom" made direct miraculous interventions in my life. A number of noncorporeal but audible interventions, two of which also saved my life. I think a lot of the other guff is just cultural constructs in which people try to explain, categorise and put in human terms, experiences they cannot explain. Certainly the bible clearly states that the sons of god came down and had children by the women of earth. You can explain this away as much as you like, as a mistranslation, an allegory, or something taken out of context, but it certainly sounds like angels. Personally, I think angels are one of the physical manifestations of god. In my experience they act that way, and they are often the mechanism by which god physically manifests his desires/gets things done on earth. Angels may be the closest manifestation of god we are physically capable of "seeing' in our present form. I don't know, or particularly care, what they do in their spare time or what, if any, their heirachy is. I suspect they don't have one, because they are all equal manifestations of the same thing. If they came down to interbreed, it was probably part of god's plan. Of course i haven't had any experience with fallen angels. If they exist on earth, which i doubt, on the evidence available to me, then they are no match for the "good" ones. Which is after all as you would expect. Even god's history is written by the winners.
Ps of course Angels have free will. Otherwise some could not have rebelled. They are either part of god, who has free will, or "sons' of god created in his own image and thus, like us, were given free will. Can they marry ? I should think they can pretty well do what they like, but would generally follow god's directions and thus "marry" only as part of his plan. While they can assume human form, they are certainly not restricted to that, or in fact to any particular physical shape and form. Of course if one assumed the form of a catholic priest, i guess the answer would be no(For the last millenium anyway)

Angels can take onmany forms, some covered in eyes with a multitude of wings (the more wings the higher up they arein the heirachy) some with 4 faces etc. But all can take on the appearance of a human. Some like the Bene Elohim (archangels) are more humanlike to start with.