I've just started a philosophy class on the matter, and I was wondering what your thoughts were. What do you think happens when our body has passed on?

I haven't the slightest clue and I try not to think about it as I'd have to actually die or commit suicide in order to find out...

Well, me being me, i don't beleive in Heaven or Hell, merely the Astral Plane... Just before you die you're given a choice subconcioussly whether to die and pass over or to live your life again... By the time you realize that you've made the choice, it's too late... If you pass on over to the Astral Plane, you find peace regardless of who you are and what you have done...

I'd rather not think about it. When I do, it tends to drive me crazy, so I stick my fingers in my ears and go "Lalalalala! I can't hear you, brain!"

Oh Ivy! I do so love your sense of humor! Truly I do.

& yes, I mugged kitty from "Naked" . Hey, you put linkage in your siggy. I gotta browse. And mug. But at least I admit to the mug. And Naked's welcome to mug me back.

~~~~~~~~~~
And now for a bit of OT;
I've just began to read "We Are Their Heaven" By: Allison DuBois. (Source for the "Medium" TV series). It proposes, through her experiences with persons communicating from the other side, that when the body dies the soul remains connected to the living physical relationships of it's survivors. So parents never really depart from their children and vice versa, etc...

I don't believe in after life realms per se, like Valhalla, Summerland , etc... However I do accept the physical theories about energy and that it can never be destroyed only reformed. So if that what animates the atomic composite we call "body" or "self" , is released from that form, I believe it returns to the source that invigorated it throughout it's life in the first place. Imagining an invisible energetic umbilicus, as it were, attached to that energy arranged into what is my self, here.

I've lived long enough to come into an awareness, that I had as a child and yet it wasn't taken to be anything "extra" ordinary, until I grew up and started thinking about it, that I am not alone here. I've had intuitive communications, if you will, that have guided me throughout my life and in innumerable occasions has even served to save it. Either saved it from certain death, or prevented what could have been a more serious outcome than it ultimately was.

This is what prompted me to give this book a read. As I don't usually go for the after life titles that abound, as it is. This seemed to propose a unique perception in the telling, and especially as it seems to relate to what I've experienced personally. (Physically and otherwise).

Of course, it's sort of disconcerting to. To imagine our dead loved ones are still here, watching at any given moment.
Yeah, I know it's said that the spirits of the dead don't hold to the old emotional bias and judgements they possessed while alive. Yet, I can't help but think that, if the hangin around after death stuff is real, my aunt Dorothy and uncle Harold might not just be somewhere in my bathroom saying; "See Harold?! I knew she had a tattoo there!"

That's one of those things that drives me to go "lalala." I'd rather not having my parents or grandparents sneaking peeks into the bedroom when my SO and I are...busy. And my dad is persnickety enough that he would come back from the grave to disinheirit me after seeing my tattoo. Which I got before he said he would disinheirit any child of his that got a tattoo.

Plus I have some terrible habits that would drive my family nuts. My feet are on the coffee table right now.

Perhaps it's a sign, when suddenly your toes go numb and your heel suddenly slips off the side of that table.

Not really sure, but I wouldn't converting to Islam where if you sacrafic yourself for your god, he will give you 72 virgins in heaven. SWEEET!! ^___^

And very very busy, one at a time.

In high school our last class was J period. I always wondered if the teacher became tired of repeating the same subject, over and over, to a class of 30 people, 7 times a day.

IF's quote:


I pretty much agree with that too. I know its not the romantic ending...but it is kind of exciting not knowing, my energy will be placed somewhere, its anybody's guess. Maybe I'll become a dung beetle and live on a luscious cow paddy, ohhh to dream......

i personaly think death is the end, when you die, you die, nothing more. There are many theories though, to name a few the early Egyptians believed after death your heart was weighed by Anubis (i think, could be some other god) and depending on the wieght, which stood for your good/bad deads in life, you were eather granted eternal life, or your heart was eaten by some beast (forgot the name) the mesopotamians thought after death was a joyless existence under the earths crust, you all know the xian belief of heaven and hell, and then there is always the thought of reincarnation

I peronally don't know. And no one does, so anyone who states they know what happens for a FACT is a complete moron.

I do, however.. Tend to lean towards the idea of reincarnation.

If not reincarnation, then some other sort of afterlife.

I also can't deny the possability that death is the end. But it's personally one of my least favorite theories. But in my opinion, I see more evidence to support the idea that we DO live on after death, than I see to support that we don't.

-shrugs-

I agree NOONE KNOWS, ...The happiest moment of my life may be the moment it ends... so in the meantime i think I'll focus on living....

I personally think that it is like a light switch, Alive, Dead thats it. As a result it is important to be as much as possible in your life because afterwoulds there is nothing, but as Zero said, thats opinion not fact so its up to you what you believe

Be aware that we do not die but our spiritual energy moves on from here to a
new plane of existance.

Also the tunnel does exist' I have seen it. When I was 9 years old during a tonsilectomy operation. My heart apparently stopped for a bit because of to much ether.
The tunnel entrance was black with a huge opening and a very loud roaring sound eminated from it. As I tried to enter the tunnel opening I was stopped by rolling barriers of barbed wire. It was not my time to leave this existance.

When my son died at age 21 from a illness suddenly , the same week he passed on within 6 days I has a O.B.E. where he came to me and I hugged him goodbye.

Unless you experience some strong spiritual connection, I realize it is hard to believe. We all must form our own beliefs.

My father has also died several times, he to saw the "Tunnel" after careful consideration he concluded that it was a hallucination produced by the shutting down of his brain.

They were actually using ether?

I,m a senior person and at that time ether was used.

worm fodder

I'm going to tell you what I think. I think that our souls continually evolve. I think that birth is not the beggining of life, but just another step of life. I believe had a previous life, and our next stage of existence in the afterlife will not be our last. We will keep advancing .

When my wife passed she came back proved to me and others that the spirit lives on. That much I know. The rest is guess, but I actually agree with exceller and that I think is a first!

I was hoping the server cut off the rest of that sentence and the OP would edit. Now I'm curious why one would say that and only that in a reply. To whom are you speaking, if indeed that may be construed as such.

If your lucky part of you does live on, in your children.

And for those that do not have children, what does that say!?

from what i see in the Bible death is like a very deep sleep .

the living know they shall die but the dead know not any thing when you die your thoughts parish .

So death is like sleep .

it could be 2000 years before you awake but it will seem like a snap of your fingers as no time period when your thoughts parish .

A christian will wake first at the return of Christ to meet Christ in the Air if they was faithfull in over coming . When they met him in the air they are changed in the twinkling of a Eye to become like him a imortal .
This mortal must put on imortality this coruption must put on incoruption you actually are given a other sort of a body that is imortal . You must be judged before you can recieve imortality and only Christians are judged in this life time .
Judgement begins at the house of God . Christians that don't over come awake to damnation or the second death . The second death has no return you are gone forever .
After meeting Christ in the air the Church lands on Earth to actually become the earths future goverment for eternity .
They rule for 1000 years and make the earth a perfect place .............then the rest of the dead all the billions are awaken to be judged they are undecieved ,given Gods spirit and get their chance at eternal life . they will either be distroyed or given eternal life just like the christians that had to get tried in this life time .

The christians are already judged in this life time so never have to be judged in the future they make it or don't know . The rest if your really good you probly make it but not as a king or priest .

So i guess when you die it will be like a second and you are alive again to live again and be judged and to meet the family of God to see if you can have imortality . If your not a Christian you will have Slept through the 1000 years Christ reigned over mortal men on earth with his saints .

6 days you work = 6000 years God sets back and lets man govern this earth or do our works 1 day you rest = 1000 years the earth gets a rest from our knowledge and king Christ rules earth with a rod of Iron . God had to show us both before we would really beleave in him for eternity .
this earth is going as planned ,just as its written , just most don't read whats written .

Its all about goverment .

But we are all mortals at this time don't let any man tell you different .

feast of tabernacles = 7 days in a temporay dwelling place = this life time

its not our home , we can't live for eternity in these bodys we need the one we get after passing judgement .

one i can't at this time discribe , thats whats going on its in your bible read it .


If its not true why do so many twist it and hide it !

the hebrew feast are road maps to truth you need to unlock their hidden meanings.

I'll second the worm fodder....

I gave my bible away.
I don't fear death because I was shown we go on. There is no deep sleep you are released from this from to another. On the night my Wife died she visited a little friend and ask her to give me a teddy bear that says “I love you.” The little girl didn’t know at the time my wife had passed and when she told her Grandmother she told her my wife had died. The little girl insisted my wife had been there. I have had christians tell me that was not my Wife but a demon. I guess that is why I gave Grandma’s bible away.
I do not hide or twist spiritual truth.

it wasn't your wife it was a show from spirits to decieve you .

Happens all the time , ive talked to many that have seen things like this . The spirit world is working hard to Decieve they will put on any show you want to decieve you .
And with your Bible Gone your now a Easy Pick .

Its the only thing the creator Gave us to be able to find truth . without it you can be lead any where by spiritual sideshows .

your wife is asleep , she will rise again though


You know what would really freak her out if you was to go get a other bible then study truth , repent get baptised ,then over come . What would she think if It was you that was to be at her grave side when she woke as a member of Gods Family . What if it was you that got to teach her how to recieve eternal life . What if You was to grab hold of truth and become a king on planet earth to reign with Christ to show this earth could be wonderfull , Bet that would freak out your wife if She Woke up to you doing all that while she Slept .

The "creator" gave us eyes and he gave us a mind of our own. These things are much more important for finding the truth then any book written by people long dead and best forgotten.

Thank you for exampling yourself as another one of the one's that already tried to disrespect DW's loss, by making such abominable claims. You would do well to keep what you read in a book to yourself when you know nothing but the words on a page.


As for the bible and the only thing the creator gave to find truth. The bible was written by men that claimed it came from god. Then other men, many other men many times over, edited that inspired text. Omitted books, authorized it's printing when they were deviant beyond compare (King James) and sought to have others think it "holy".

The reality is if you think you find truth of god in a book written by damnable , fallible human beings, you are lost already in holding faith in words on a page as the map to the truth of what exists beyond this living. A truth that does not hold it's genesis, nor does it bend to the motives of men seeking to create institutions of faith for the mind what seeks and calls that which they find there, god.

Or maybe it is us who are deceived, Nova Scotia. Have you ever thought about that possibility?

Maybe the spirits of our loved ones do exist. You say these spirit visions happen all the time, and you've spoken to many that have had that experieince, then maybe it is them with the truth and you are being led astray by a book that is telling you that you didn't really see what you just saw.

Or did you stop to consider the possibility that your interpretation of the End Times in Revelation may happen literally as described (Revelation IS an extremely symbolic book, it woul be arrogant (to say the least), if you say you have deciphered everything that it means).

For the record, I am also a Christian. I believe the Bible to be true. I have a different interpretation of Revelation than you (look up the term "Amellenialism" some time), though because it is Revelation, I'm not going to say "this is how it is and that's that!". And I have a different belief concerning the spirit realm also. And so I cannot, nor will not dismiss anyone's experience as the result of a deceiving spirit. I don't know what Darkwind experienced, I don't think anyone can know. I just know Darkwind, and for that I think my life is the richer for it. Can I say the same about knowing you?

Regards, PA

YEs Darkwind is a great guy. Just because he has a different view of the world to you doesn't make his view wrong.

He Has had a Damn hard time and has experienced things that few will ever understand.

I think it is fair to say that when he talks, people should listen, whether they agree or not.

Indeed. And well said, both you and PA.

And how do you know this? You have no reason to believe it wasn't his wife. I bet if a loved one of yours died, and then visited you in some way, you wouldn't scream DEMON! But then again, if you're a funy, you probably would.

JUST A QUICK POINT FOR U ALL..........YES LIFE DOES CONTINUE AFTER DEATH/PASSING ON.....LOOK AT THE LIFE MAKING MACHINE UNIVERSE LOOK WOT WERE BORN ON, A SINGLE LIFE GIVING EGG ...EARTH....JUST ONE OF TRILLIONS....THERE OBVIOUSLY IS A MUCH DESEVERD REASON TO WHY WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE OPPUNTUNITY TO LIVE ....WHERE ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHERE LIFE ON THIS PLANET WE ARE CREATURES OF KNOWLEDGE....SO LOOK AT OUR FIRST BIRTH HERE AS AT THE FIRST FEATAL STAGES OF OUR LIFE....LIFE IS A GIFT.....ANYONE THAT SAYS EVEN IF YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL ENCOUNTERMENT WITH A MEMBER OF FAMILY AND SAY THAT THEY ARE THERE TO DESEIVE YOU IS TALKING A LOAD OF CALPAT AND I WONT AV IT...THEM PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO START TAKING THE RIGHTS AND SEEING THE EVEDENTLY WRONG IN THERE BOOKS SCRIPTURED AND CHANGED BY MAN OVER A VERY LONG TIME....I BELIEVE THEY SHOULD SAY THEM THINGS WITHOUT A FACTUAL CONCEPTUAL DESIGN....ANYHOW YES LIFE AFTER DEATH IS QUITE NORMAL AS LONG AS YOU DONT MAKE IT HARD FOR YOURSELF BY DIS=BALANCING YOURSELF THROUGHTOUT YOUR LIFE FIND AN ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LEARN AS YOU GO.....THATS ALL...KNOWLEDGE OF LIF IS THE KEY

How about try to use caps a little less?

Gee, thanks PA, AtlantisRises, and the rest of ya's for defending my wife and your respect. There are some great minds on this web site and believe me some times I feel like a dunderhead, but I just call it the way I see it.

I wish ya'll could have know known my wife. She was a great lady and was in her own way a Christian. She would tell ya'll don't listen to me, I am an insane fool. She will always be my Goddess.

Nova Scotia, if you find truth in your bible, then it is your Path by all means follow it. I find my truth in the Earth, Sea and Sky if that is the realm of Satan then so be it. I can not unlearn what I have learned nor do I want to.

But the messge of the Bible is in my opinion the best one way better news then any of these other opinions .

you just need to stop listening to all these bible interpreters and read one yourself .


I think first though you need to be somewhere alone and pray to the Father for the wisdom to really see whats in the Bible as i do beleave the bible is hard to see without the creators help .

But once you can unlock it and see its good news you will not want to throw it away as it truely can be a source of good news . It truely is a Source of Hope for all of Us .

Would not the Creator leave Something to lead us to Truth ?

Then like i say when you see all the religous folks twisting the bibles message you know you are on to something . If it was just a Old book they would tell you whats in it . I get so discusted when i go to funerals and listen to modern ministers lead us through the bible about our loved ones they avoid most the good news so they can keep their fairy tales and pagan doctrines . Read 1st corth 15 it tells you plainly This MORtal must put On imortality . Why is any body with a Bible teaching we are imortal now??

Nothing wrong with the bible trouble is most of christianity is a stumbling block to keep you from seeing its real message . Its working as most now have thrown their bibles away .

No...yet again we have another one...pushing there views about,,,this is why we have strife in this world, i attained my own beliefs i follow none of your books or any other nor do i have anything against any of them but i will say this...i gained my faith when i was eleven and i had no control of my thoughts i then went through a cycle of patterns of learning this was a touch of knowledge...it helped me expand my question and answers which i found had a diversity of paths which all had there unique meaning...i used this to find a path in relgion i found none but only more answers and questions which i finally found the meaning of what we call life and why and it was beautifal thing i attained the universal laws i attained my truth inside of me and wot it means....i could go on to explaine further of my systematics..views..meanings...and the faith i carry ...but why would i ....its not up to me to intervine with my views onto people....i was an ordinary boy getting on with things...then that happens ....and yes im still normal and i do normal things and my beliefs certantly at an inbodyment of a devil or his clan....tsch


p.s i agree on a diverse multicultral world...that would obviously include all religions of all faiths acting as a role to strive people for the better of man....................



No...yet again we have another one...pushing there views about,,,this is why we have strife in this world, i attained my own beliefs i follow none of your books or any other nor do i have anything against any of them but i will say this...i gained my faith when i was eleven and i had no control of my thoughts i then went through a cycle of patterns of learning this was a touch of knowledge...it helped me expand my question and answers which i found had a diversity of paths which all had there unique meaning...i used this to find a path in relgion i found none but only more answers and questions which i finally found the meaning of what we call life and why and it was beautifal thing i attained the universal laws i attained my truth inside of me and wot it means....i could go on to explaine further of my systematics..views..meanings...and the faith i carry ...but why would i ....its not up to me to intervine with my views onto people....i was an ordinary boy getting on with things...then that happens ....and yes im still normal and i do normal things and my beliefs certantly at an inbodyment of a devil or his clan....tsch


p.s i agree on a diverse multicultral world...that would obviously include all religions of all faiths acting as a role to strive people for the better of man....................

c wot yu did i wrote it twice..... anyway no matter wot you say we will all pass on.......... and there is no fire and brimstone.....just levels...obviously the lower you go... on dependence of your movement through life... and ....yes...no matter wot you are or wot you done it will not change....wot faith you have...still wont change it....its about harmonising ones self to a balance...that has no degenerative or negative or long term destuctive effects.....therefore LIVE and LEARN...

Nova Scotia, why do you assume I haven't read the bible? I have read it several times. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I haven't read it or I don't understand it. I didn't throw it away either. I gave it to my christian son. I don't think he is reading that copy it is too fragile. My son loves it, it belonged to his Great-grandmother.

To me it is negative energy I don't want it in the house. It was Grandma who stayed my hand when I thought about burying it in the backyard. I thought Grandma would kick my a$$ if I did that. She has been gone a while, but she could still come back and give me the respect your elders speech.

To tell you the truth I have a long reading list of history, science, and Pagan books I must read. Some times I wonder if I'll live long enough to finish them all, but I just keep adding to it. It is not easy becoming a Druid it requires a lot of study. But nothing worth while is easy.

Check out this site about Near Death Experiences (People who have been declared legally dead and for some reason came back to life). The site has accounts of NDE's from people of all races, religions and ages. It is very interesting.

NDE's

Remember what Christ said one Day

Think not that i Came to Bring Peace

most gave up on Christ because they think he is some kind of a failure at bringing peace to this earth .


he will bring peace in the future though read micah 4

first we have to learn lesson leave the tree of the knowledge of good and evil alone

man don't know how to govern this earth we need God to make the laws .

After seeing a world wrecked ,full of diseases , full of crime, famine filled i think most of us will gladly invite God to Govern Us .

1000 years after he governs the earth and makes it a perfect planet most of us will want his way. we had to see it done our way first as eternity is such a long time it takes big lessons .

Perhaps it would, but why are you so certain that the book you read is that truth. There are MANY paths to as many destinations. To say yours is the only true one is both closeminded and arrogant.

And still others, like myself, "gave up on Christ" because they believe the bible isn't really the word of God.

re: Life after death?

The most interesting explanation that I have heard came from a very intelligent person who had gone through a near death (or returning from death) experience. He said that the best analogy he could give was that of a joke he had once heard:

Two caterpillars are walking along on the ground and a shadow moves over them. They look up and it's a beautiful butterfly that has flown over them and had made the shadow.

One caterpillar looks at the other and says "they'll never get me up in one of those things".

...(of course the point of the joke is that the caterpillar will BECOME a butterfly and simply doesn't know it yet). I believe his point was that there is a transition - and from the sound of it a positive one. He said he never feared death since that experience.

I had Testicular Cancer in '01 and it was an interesting experience what with the Chemo"therapy".
Unless one has been thru this it cannot be explained.
It really wasn't that scary because if I were to have died from it, then that is what would've happened.
It's kinda wierd being around that much Death(in a Cancer ward), yet I wasn't about to get religion in there because the Cancer was not an origination of a religion or of not having a religion. Cancer is a "gift" of our societal encumberances especially since the "industrial revolution".
My Wife has a possible re-occurence with a Cancer she had over 20 years ago (as opposed to 20 years from now). I doubt this is anything at all and will be hopeful that it isn't anything at all.

Since the Cancer, I have had limited time thinking, meaning I keep thinking I do not have enuf time to do most of the things I want to do. This is rather disconcerting yet I haven't figured how to not do this.
I generally think about just how long is Eternity and since EVERYTHING has a beginning and ending, when did the Cosmos start, where is it going and when does it stop.
What becomes after then??
What was before it was??
The Big Bang is a theory yet it opens up other questions related to beginnings and endings, like What caused the Big Bang, What was the catalyst??

I refuse to believe or entertain the thoughts of heaven and hell as these are NOT LOGICAL in the great spans of thought.
Why should a Life force be Eternally "rewarded or punished" for ONE Lifetime??
One cannot attain a level of comprehension about Life, Death and the Universal Ethos by one simple and short existence upon this planet.

I think that after we leave our vessels (bodies) we are to return to that which we were before becoming what we are currently and that we in Spirit (which is Energy) can "travel' to any "place" in the cosmos for learning. Much like when one is dreaming, this has been described as Death and each dream is but a little Death.

Ghosts have been claimed by some as Spirits that are somehow "trapped" between this world (dimension) and the next or other dimensions. This may or not have validity depending ENTIRELY upon ones own beliefs and I say that the beliefs of others are theirs and should any views correspond to mine then so be it, where when others do not, that is groovy as well.

One of my Aunts who was 83 told me (last year) about 3 months before she died that "she felt she wasn't going to be here much longer" and all I said was "Let's enjoy the time we have as we have before".
I may have seen her in a dream or two or I have not as the thought of her in my dreams is comforting as are ANY relatives among others who are not direct relatives.

--Seemingly we are ALL related as WE ARE ALL HUMAN--So who really is a stranger??

One of my friends died horribly in a car wreck back in '98 and his wife stated several times since his demise, she felt like he was holding her hand while she was awake in bed and that she would awaken and feel a presence beside her in bed and that the presence was comforting as her husband had been.
I told her that it seemed logical to me and that she was NOT crazy for admitting this.

I do not believe in the "going before ones time" thing, as when one goes it IS their time regardless.
I believe we are all here repetitively to learn the lessons we were not able to in previous incarnations, so whether or not one enjoys this Life, there will be other lives and not neccessarily upon this planet or even in these dimensions.

Everyone believes that of which they believe and I am not one to query them as to why they have certain beliefs and don't believe things that I believe.
I am NOT the arbiter of the universe therefore I am happy to discuss things with others regardless of how others view things, most of the time.

Thank you for your time!!

I am still trying to find my own personal answers. On one hand I sort of believe when you die, you just die, nothing happens you just cease to exist.

But... On the other hand I believe in spirits and spirits hanging around to help our loved ones after we have passed, and after they have finished their work they get reincarnated,

but I am still young I have a lifetime to refine my beliefs