The childish namecalling needs to stop now, it is absolutely crazy to see both sides claiming high ground yet acting like they are in a schoolyard spat. Present your evidence and information without resorting to these kinds of antics.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=78435

empiracle standards huh

for one its documented and public record about pearl harbor being "allowed" to happen-- second no one claims the nazi's didnt cause the holocaust the hoax lies in the actual figures involved concerning the dead as well as the lie about it being a "jewish" holocaust-- all the evidence shows that the nazi regime killed without impunity regaurdless of race or religous conviction it was the globalists versus the world-- third if we went to the moon why would certain astronauts have been caught "faking" video footage? also you must consider the common sense aspect of 13 perfect missions yet the act has not been reproduced in nearly 40 yrs nor is capable with current technology-- now i suppose you would like to take a crack at explaining the molten red steel captured in an image taken over seven weeks after the collapse-- you certainly seem to have it all figured out i would love to hear your theory on how this damning piece of documentary evidence came to be

The molten steel is not a smoking gun that Bush did it. Its simply an indication that there is more to the collapse than we are aware of.

So here's a test to see if you are being rational or just childish.

Can you come up with ANY theory that would explain the "molten red lava" aka glowing firey debris, being pulled from the building.

Any theory OTHER than Bush did it. If you can come up with even ONE alternative theory then I will take a look at what you are saying.

Yes your right there is more to the collapse, but we are aware that its called explosives.



Research it, its called Thermite. Dont just stick to your bible ie: Popular Mechanics, 911myths etc..... Research on a broader scale please.

Brigham Young University physicist Professor Steven Jones told peers at a Utah meeting that, "while almost no fire, even one ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."

wait wait let me guess he is lying right because he is a preacher of some sort?

Cheers

BZRK

I haven't read the Popular Mechanics debunking. I just don't how you get "explosives were used" means "Bush did it."

The people perpetrating the extraordinary accusations are the ones who need to present "evidence." I have seen photoshop illustrations from websites that have no pedigree, as most don't, and have seen people allege to reports. Yet there is no bibliography of any source quoted. There is no scan and post of any document identifyable by any number or investagatory agency. What are the titles of the studies and reports that are alluded to? Who are the authors, publishers and dates of publication? To simply state something akin to "this guy says this and he's an engineer," is completely, patently uncoroborated.

Pulling things off of web sites designed to perpetrate a singular subject rather than legitimate international news entities again confirms that the only coroboration existing is material manufactured by others holding a prejudicial interest in propagating that singluar concept.

Sorry but no one here has made any case other than opinion and heresay. No one perpetuating the claim of conspiracy in this subject has presented one brick and mortar world reference at all to colusion on the part of anyone.

Let's see a bibliography of materials referenced obtainable by anyone that confirm any of this fantasy.

Great post, well said, and seconded.

In simple term, blogs are not evidence nor fact.

Fools... thats all I say about the 9/11 thoerists. Fools.

The problem with evidence is that it doesn't always agree with your facts.

Best post on this thread by far.

Indeed TK0001, very well said!!!

May I quote you, I got a little argument in Evolution Vs. Creationism going...?

I never tire of reading This. It really brings home how ridiculous this whole thing is.

"Keeping the conspiracy a secret would be liking covering up the Manhattan project... AFTER Hiroshima."

Link.

Bigger than that, even. At least Hiroshima took place on foreign soil, and not in the middle of the greatest media center on the planet with a billion people watching.

ok since we so many experts on the subject posting here i would like to ask for the explanations each one of you have for the "core" issues surrounding 9/11 that have NEVER been addressed by any skeptic i have ever encountered-- these issues are based on evidence that is well documented and can be researched from many different sources--

Who benfited from the insider trading?...Why is perp being protected?

*********************************************************************
Molten High Grade Steel present over seven weeks after the collapses
[attachmentid=28395]
if anyone can offer a working hypothesis that is accordance with the official scenario please list it here as i have NEVER encountered it
**********************************************************************
BLDG 7

of course this crucial piece of documented evidence is well know yet still has never been explained-- and of course im talking officially as many here will jump through extreme hurtles to avoid facing the reality in this gif-- no plane struck this 47 story hi rise and its minor fires only burned for a few hours

***********************************************************************

the IMPOSSIBILITY of flight 77

concerning the pentagon-- for a pilot who had NEVER been in the cockpit we are supposed to believe that this same amatuer was responsible for directing a big bird hundreds of miles with no air traffic control assistance flying by the seat of his pants staring at nothing but the clouds was then able to perform this detailed manuever--


************************************************************************
the issues above are critical to any rational human being in america as it effects your rights,freedoms and the constitutional sovereignty our fore fathers died for-- consider these other coincidences and ask yourself a few questions along the way---
where is your rationality? do you know what PNAC stands for? why do you NOT find it odd that drills were taking place on 9/11 dealing with hi-jacked commercial aircraft targeting an "undisclosed" hi rise in manhattan and that we were still unable to defend our airspace? why were the bin ladens rounded up on jets when no other americans were allowed to fly and then flown out of the country as soon as the air ban was lifted? who supplied the anthrax targeting (D)delay and AFP journalists in the 9/11 aftermath?

Thanks and sure!

That, of course, wasn't me who said that, but quote away!

Sun, do you have me on ignore or something? Seriously. Because I've addressed most of these "issues" until I'm blue in the face and you've had NOTHING to say in return! All of these issues, that you so dramatically claim have "never" been addressed by any skeptic, ever, have ALL been addressed ad nauseum AND YOU KNOW IT!!! That was really ignorant of you to make that claim, because you know damn well I wouldn't be able to lay off....

So, to your ridiculous Claim #1:


Who benfited from the insider trading?...Why is perp being protected?

Sorry to answer your question with a question, but who says insider trading occurred? coughstrawmancough

This was an unusually high amount of put options, to be sure, however it was...prepare eyes for rolling.....just a coincidence! Boeing stock had been declining since 2000, airfares were dropping, and all economic indicators for airlines were falling as well. American Airlines stock was also falling, and on Friday 9/7 they announced their predictions of loss for quarters 3 and 4, on top of a loss already suffered in quarter 2. And naturally, o the following Monday, a lot of put options were made.

The 9/11 Commission did look into this, and believe it or not, they found it to be "innocuous":



So, it turns out there were no "perps" being "protected". Or would you have us believe that Wall Street, Boeing, and American Airlines were all in on the conspiracy as well? Sometimes it's beneficial to look at the forest and not the bark of one tree.

Molten High Grade Steel present over seven weeks after the collapses



I don't know if you consider the NIST as "anyone", but they certainly explained it, in detail.



Source

It's called the oven effect. And the metal you continuously post a picture of is aluminum, not "high grade steel", which has a much lower melting point than steel. Also, there is no way to verify that this picture was taken 7 weeks after the collapses, like you always claim.

Let's look at the forest again. What are you suggesting made this metal glow red hot? How does one connect it to controlled demolition?

BLDG 7



Never been explained? I've seen it explained in this forum dozens of times. But you won't accept our "common sense" arguments because they aren't from official sources. I understand that. But why place your faith in official sources if you believe the 9/11 Commission to be completely full of lies? For the record, the official investigation for WTC7 is still ongoing, because officials concentrated on the towers first. Sooner or later you'll have to face the fact that the official investigation into WTC7 will conclude, and the results will be released to the public, taking away yet another one of your rallying cries. Of course, the minute the results become public, you'll dismiss them because a government agency came up with the conclusions. I know your move before you make it.

If you care to look at common sense, I've presented this image of the WTC7 south side repeatedly, and you've yet to acknowledge it:



Once again, that's the south side of WTC7 prior to collapse. This is the side you refuse to acknowledge, because it clearly shows that there were massive fires on that side. Obscured by the smoke (smoke that, prior to seeing this image, you used to insist drifted over from the collapsed North Tower) is the 20 storey hole caused by North Tower debris that was confirmed by firefighters.

You claim WTC7 to be a smoking gun, when it's really one of your weakest arguments.

Forest time again: why would it be necessary for the government to bring down WTC7 hours after the towers fell? What would be the point? Nobody died in the collapse, as the building and surrounding area was cleared (because the FDNY knew it was going to collapse).

the IMPOSSIBILITY of flight 77



Another completely weak argument. He had extensive flight training and all he needed was to keep the plane in the air. He missed his intended target and had to turn around to re-acquire it. This is a sign of an amateur pilot. What are you proposing hit the Pentagon? A missile? Where was it fired from? Why did a massive amount of eyewitnesses report seeing the plane?

Forest time: tell me what actually happened to flight 77 and its passengers. If a missile hit the Pentagon, how do you account for the plane parts found at the scene? Why would the government fire upon its own military command center and not something more symbolic like the Washington Monument or even the White House?



Nice speech. One would argue that making up fairy tales and trying to implicate the government in a crime they didn't commit is a slap in the face to our forefathers, and most certainly disrespectful to the victims and their families. But who cares about them, right?



Where it always has been. Where is yours?



Project for the New American Century! What do I win???



Why do you find it necessary to make up lies? Maybe because your arguments are so damn weak?

Why does it amaze CTists that the military conducts drills at all?



You have absolutely no evidence of this at all. But I guess all you're doing is asking questions, huh?



Some nutball? I have no idea. Proof that Delay was a target? And excuse me as I chuckle about the almighty gubmint being afraid of the American Free Press, a biased hackjob of a publication.


Hopefully you don't have me on ignore, because ONCE AGAIN, I've answered each of your weak arguments.

then why restate when you can supply a link to the alledged response?? to think that you are on ignore is a joke as you are the easiest to debate-- the only link you could offer would be to posts claiming to have offered answers and accusing me of ignoring them-- typical spin -- now you have even taken the liberty to admit the trades were of an unusual nature but then turned around and stated they were innocuous-- now clearly you have not provided a link nor have you thoroughly explained this contradiction-- when you are digging up the link make sure and embolden the actual person or company that made the admittedly suspicious transaction-- trying to downplay the action by reporting "economic indicators" is faulted due to the seasonal aspect of the business to think that business would not bounce back during the thanksgiving and christmas holidays is rediculous-- so in essence you made a claim that was unsubstantiated unreferenced and unable to stand up to minor scrutiny...again


now this catagory is your weakest link-- prof steven jones clearly detailed the physics in dertermining the grade and temperature of the glowing material pictured-- aluminum melts and liquifies way before glowing occurs and in fact only particular grades can even achieve the color that it was in the image unless it was of a high grade,tensile steel-- you dont even realise how foolish you appear making those comments repeatedly


ok five years later and were still waiting-- puh..lease-- to think that you or any noob here has adequately explained the collapse of bldg7 is histerical just because the truth is too much of a shock on your fragile psyche dont assume for one moment that the rest of america or the world for that matter suffers from the same mental block-- common sense and the video of the collapse is all that is necessary to debunk you noobs-- the govt has yet to actually commit to any one hypothesis after five years so hopefully they will be done in another five


you are a JOKE! one of the first additions to my whistle-blower thread was a russ whittenburg who actually had over 20 years experience flying a "big bird" and claimed outright that the manuevers performed that day could not be done by a professional much less someone who had NEVER been in a real cockpit-- here is what the govt claims an amatuer who had never seen a real cockpit did





why would you ask me if a missle hit the pentagon??
oh no the heart of our nations defense isnt symbolic


well the way i look at it if i am wrong then i was being disrespectful but if you are wrong then that would make you complicit to treason and beyond disrespectful


specify


no evidence?? you better read your govt cover-up commission report a little more thoroughly -- yes you answered them but with a high school level understanding of physics you just arent prepared to rationally justify the real truth-- you have once again countered nothing -- your position is one that should be easier as you can referene the govt documents but i suspect that you are aware of the absolutely inadequate material they condone otherwise you would post it wouldnt you?? i wish you would

Well i dont know if this idea was psoted before...

Well is it possible that the cause was indeed both planes and explosives inside both the 2 trade world buildings...?

I think it is quite acceptable to think that the planes were the "visible" act of terrorism..while the explosives were the non visible act..to finsih the job.

And did anyone mention that Mr Bin Laden actually said that it was his job? Was bin laden lying to favor Bush?

Oh and by the way..i am not american and have no interests in america..so im neither in favour nor against it..

and ignore if this was brought up before..12 pages are too long to read

Bin Laden denied being involved in the 9/11 attacks.

Osama bin Laden denies any involvement in the 9/11 attacks in a statement to Al Jazeera television, saying, "I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons."-PBS
Source:http://www.pbs.org/flashpointsusa/20040629/infocus/topic_01/timeline_sep2001.html

Cool! You actually responded to me! This is progress, my friend, nice work.



I'm glad you're asking for links from credible sources, that's more progress. I apologize if I've not provided a link when needed. I'll try to do better in the future. In my defense, I really had no idea you actually paid attention to the links, so I opted not to include them in my last post.

As far as me being the "easiest to debate", well you certainly have a strange way of showing it, since you've chosen not to carry on a debate with more for more than 3 posts...



Strange, because here is the link I provided in that last post:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

I really don't see anywhere in there anything about you ignoring me....



Unusual, in that the put options were higher than the normal daily levels. Innocuous, in that they were easily explained. That's not a contradiction.

Here's the quoted text again, from the 9/11 Commission Report, chapter 5, note 130 (that's a source - look it up yourself to make sure I'm not lying):



As far as who actually requested the put options, I have no idea. Since they're easily explained, there really is no reason to find out who made them.

Please address all my "Forest" inquiries, starting with this one:

Would you have us believe that Wall Street, Boeing, and American Airlines were all in on the conspiracy as well?



You seriously believe the people who make economic indicators don't take into consideration the holiday season?

Here's a link to Boeing's declining stock:

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/Stock/Sto...=qtchartnavretn




So, apparently I'm the only one who needs to produce links, huh? You're free to post at will without backing up any of your claims, is that it? Hypocrisy, I believe is what they call that.

I could post a library of links from sources who completely disagree with Jones' findings, but I think I'll wait until you provide me with a link first.




Yup, that's what I'm saying. Scientific investigations take time - these people don't just Google away like you or I. Once again, you might want to prepare what you'll say when the investigation's findings are revealed to the public, because you won't have this leg to stand upon any longer.



I definitely haven't explained the science behind the collapse of WTC7 - I prefer to leave that to the experts. But I do continuously provide an image that counters your exclusively-north sided images, that you have no answer for, other than to continue burying your head in the sand by posting north side images. Provide one image of the south side and tell me that you don't see evidence of massive fires and damage. You can't.



They couldn't even have been performed by a professional? Then who do you suggest was flying the plane? My thought is that only an amateur pilot would attempt such a risky maneuver, since a professional pilot would certainly not attempt it.



Alright, what do you claim hit the Pentagon?



Again, why the hell would the government attack its own military headquarters if the whole idea behind these "false flag attacks" was to drum up support FOR A WAR? Can't you see how this makes no sense?



trea·son
Pronunciation: 'trE-z&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tresoun, from Anglo-French traisun, from Latin tradition-, traditio act of handing over, from tradere to hand over, betray -- more at TRAITOR
1 : the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

If anyone's being treasonous, it is you, my friend.



Give me evidence that:



...because that's the first I ever heard of that.




You "wish I would" reference government documents? What do you consider the NIST report and the 9/11 Commission Report?

For once, it really would be nice if YOU referenced something other than anti-government conspiracy theorist websites with no credibility. Give me something, anything peer-reviewed or is the opinion of an expert not named Steven Jones (whose expert status is extremely questionable, especially since he's been suspended by his own university).

dear lord, you type alot. you should right a book lol

That statement was made on 9/16/2001 http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

bin Laden, and al Qaeda spokepersons have since then said the following:
7th October 2001: bin Ladin
When Almighty God rendered successful a convoy of Muslims, the vanguards of Islam, He allowed them to destroy the United States...

I swear by Almighty God who raised the heavens without pillars that neither the United States nor he who lives in the United States will enjoy security before we can see it as a reality in Palestine and before all the infidel armies leave the land of Mohammed, may God's peace and blessing be upon him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/south_asia/1585636.stm

October 9th, 2001: Suleiman Abu-Ghaith
"He issued a chilling warning to the U.S., saying there would be no peace until it stops supporting Israel and ends blockades against Iraq.

"The youths who did what they did and destroyed America, they have done a good deed," he said. "The storm of airplanes will not stop. There are thousands of young people who look forward to death like the Americans look forward to living."
www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2001/10/09/alqaeda_warn011009.html

14th October: Suleiman Abu Ghaith
Finally, I address the US secretary of state, who cast doubt about my previous statement and downplayed what we said that there are thousands of Muslim youths who are eager to die and that the aircraft storm will not stop, God willing.

"Powell, and others in the US administration, know that if al-Qaeda organisation promises or threatens, it fulfils its promise or threat, God willing.

"Therefore, we tell him tomorrow is not far for he who waits for it. What will happen is what you are going to see and not what you hear.

"And the storms will not calm, especially the aircraft storm...

We also say and advise the Muslims in the United States and Britain, the children, and those who reject the unjust US policy not to travel by plane.

We also advise them not to live in high-rise buildings and towers...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/middle_east/1598146.stm

April 4th, 2002: al Qaeda statement
The first charge of the heroes of the New York and Washington attacks was obedience to all of their orders, an obedience that was established before their departure to the enemy's land, beginning with the hero Ahmad al-Ghamdi, may Allah almighty have mercy on him...

We have put forth this directive in order to deliver a new blow to America and to expose to the world the fallacy of the American propaganda which claims it has irrefutable evidence regarding the warriors (mujahideen) who carried out the operation. It claims it has twenty-four thousand threads leading to knowledge of the agents of the operation. But what appears to it as evidence is weaker than a spider's web, and the American case cannot rely upon it to indict the suspects, let alone convince the world with it. In this directive we say to America that hiding all trace of the agents of the operation was not something we considered. Rather, some of the heroes were intent on leaving Islamic fingerprints on the operation. This is a new blow received by the American security agency that has looked here and there in confusion unlike anything ever seen before. On account of the hunt for a trace of the heroes who entered their country, noses have sniffed with honor and pride.

[there then follows a lengthy justification explaining why they claim the attacks were permissible under Islam]
These comments about the permissibility of the martyrdom operations in the attack of New York and Washington are taken from the book The Truth about the New Crusader War. Whoever wants further evidence and a detailed discussion of the matter should consult the entire book.
http://www.mepc.org/public_asp/journal_vol...306_alqaeda.asp

April 2002, Ahmed al-Haznawi:
"For the first time, one of the 19 suicide hijackers involved in the September 11 attacks has been shown explaining his motives, with the broadcast yesterday by an Arab television network of a videotape made last year by a man identified as a Saudi conspirator.
The Qatar-based al-Jazeera station named the man as Ahmed al-Haznawi - a hijacker on United Airlines flight 93 which crashed in Pennsylvania on September 11. He is shown angrily reciting a prepared statement, which al-Jazeera described as a last will and testament".
www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,685127,00.html

etc

As one scribe replied to the 9/11 Commission's "perfectly innocuous explanation" ...

Note the circular logic of this explanation. Because the Commission traced most of the purchases to a US investor with "no conceivable ties to al Qaeda", it concluded that the trades were "innocuous". It pre-supposes the very conclusion that the put options undermine: that the attack was the work of and known only to al Qaeda.

None of the other assertions of this passage have sufficient detail to support the contention that the trades were "innocuous". Were the shares of American that the investor bought on 9/10 of comparable value to the puts purchased on 9/6? What was the content of the newspaper faxed on 9/9, and who was it faxed to?

http://911review.com/reviews/nyt/markup/05conspiracy.html

This is exactly the methodology the Gov't used in the entire 9/11 investigation. They immediately formed pre-determined conclusions and only considered evidence within those boundaries. NIST and FEMA started with the conclusion that only fire and impact damage caused the collapses. Bin Laden and 19 hijackers from al Qaeda were deemed the 100% proven perpetrators of 9/11 within a day or two of 9/11.

And to suggest anything else happened or anybody else was involved is "supporting terrorism", naturally.

Another 911 thread.

Ok, If ANYONE here actually believes this could be REMOTELY possible.....then I honestly feel sorry for you:

TITLE:

All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off.

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history...

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most if not all of them. Many of these men and women come from the military yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the governments next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag rule

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly truck in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who rather have investigations of the decisions which lead to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They wont say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like like the BBC and Al Jeezera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent org doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a hand full can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team in structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel to from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to china before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the fire fighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is the engineers don't know about Jones work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones's work to any structural engineer?

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why" No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorist say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorist never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorist say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed, Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involved the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long.



Controlled demolition!!!!!??

No planes?!

Perhaps someone should tell that to Stanley Praimnath who was on the 81st floor of WTC 2.

"What I see is a big plane coming towards me. This plane is coming, eye level towards me. Eye contact. I'm seeing a big gray plane, with a red stripe.

The plane impacts. I try to get up and then I realize that I'm covered up to my shoulder in debris. And when I'm digging through under all this rubble, I can see the bottom wing starting to burn, and that wing is wedged 20 feet in my office doorway. "


Sorry but I'll listen to the people that were there and actually saw the events occuring with their own eyes over someone who's entire claim is "Everyone else is lying to you." If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon explain how the wreakage got there, this was not a small amount either, it was quite a pile and included passanger luggage as well as pieces of fuselage, seats, glass from windows, the data flight recorders for Flight 77 and engine parts. How come all the passangers and the crew's remains (except for one small girl) were recovered from the Pentagon, or are you going to claim all the rescue services were in on it too?

How many people do you claim are in on this? Let's see so far as I can tell, all the survivors, all of those in Manhatten who saw the planes that morning. All of those in Washington DC that saw them. The check in staff at Logon and Boston who saw and identified the Hijackers (including one girl who commited suicide because of what she considered her part in not stopping them.) Every firefighter, ambulance worker and police officer who attended the three scene, including those that were killed. Every Structural Engineer, half the CT crowd, nearly everyone on boards that actually know what they are talking about.

So what's that? At least a 100,000 people? (probably more.) How exactly do you shut up that many people? You can't pay them all $10 million, that'd be $10 Trillion. The US GDP is only $11 Trillion. So how do you keep them from spilling the beans? How do you stop them taking the money and spilling the beans? By threatening to kill them? If so, what's to stop the same killers coming after you?

Even the conspiracy lovers would have to think -anyone who believes this needs to seek the nearest mental health professional.

Conspiracists in general, and 9/11 conspiracists in particular, will not criticize any claim, no matter how blatantly at odds with reality or with the the other conspiracy stories, as long as it "supports" the overall existence of the conspiracy.

This is because they are interested in lashing out at the perceived power structure, not in discovering any kind of objective truth.


God help anyone ignorant enough to buy into this crap.

Koolaid drinkers. You gotta lovem.

And the most mature post of the day goes to... Madmike!!!

Don't get upset and start calling people names because you can't support your theories.

Well ive read through that rediculous post again, to give a small benefit of a doubt and I find too many contradictions and deceptions. I am not in the mood to argue the obvious. Stalingrad... just admit your a globalist. " And the most mature post of the day goes to Madmike" haha very funny, Idiot.

Stalingrad, can the snide comments.

Madmike, if you cannot post something that contributes to the discussion, do not post. This is your last friendly warning.

Retracted.

Move along. Nothing to watch.

Ever heard of Iran-Contra, or Watergate, or the Gulf of Tonkin? What about the JFK assassination? Sorry, but government conspiracies are nothing new. The first three I've mentioned are even acknowledged by the conspirators today. The last one (JFK) is known to have been a conspiracy by over 90% of the public, and even a majority of current or former government officials.

Besides which, Bush is just a puppet in all this. 9/11 was largely a military operation. Bush couldn't co-ordinate his own wardrobe without help.



The firefighters (on the very floors deemed by NIST to have the "most severe fires" and deemed to be "where the collapse initiated") who radioed down that they could put out the fires with "two more lines", only seconds before the tower collapsed? You don't think anybody from the NYFD is more than a little P.O'ed about this fact? They are under a gag order.



Not needed - internal gag orders will suffice. Read the NYFD quotes just after 9/11 - "We think there were bombs planted in the buildings", etc. These people cannot repeat their accounts today to the media - you don't need to be a genius to figure out why.



Same as above - many who were there know what really happened and can't talk about it.
Motive? Keep quiet and tow the official line and get promoted. Talk about bombs or something and get canned.



As above.



The Pentagon is a top-down military organization. What is said from the top is what goes, period.



Wrong.

9/11: Press for Truth follows three of the Jersey Girls (activist widows of individuals killed in the attacks) as well as other family members in their search for the truth about the attacks and subsequent government response that they believe has been hidden by the United States government and media. It draws on Paul Thompson's The Complete 9/11 Timeline (a website later published as The Terror Timeline) for its narrative...It further explores the many questions about the events of 9/11 and the government's handling of the situation, and makes the point that 70 percent of the detailed questions developed by and presented to the 9/11 Commission remain unanswered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11:_Press_for_Truth

The 70% unanswered questions include, for example...

"Where are the FAA transcripts?"

"Why were the roof access doors locked?"

"Why was the World Trade Center steel removed so quickly, without being examined, from the scene of a mass murder?"

"Who ordered the removal of the steel?"

To claim the victims families don't think the government played a part in 9/11 is absurd.

http://911independentcommission.org/questions.html



Al Jazeera is a shill for the US gov't, to pretend both sides of the story are being heard. Sure, that's why they are always the ones who show bogus bin Laden "confession" tapes! That certainly does help the Arabs!



Most photos do not support the official theory at all, in fact they contradict it. The supposed "bowing" photos are bogus, btw.



Owned by Hearst. Run by Chertoff's cousin. Need I say more?



PBS's NOVA - "Brought to you tonight thanks to the generous donations of Shell Oil / Chevron / etc." Again, need I say more?



NIST is an "independent org"??? You mean the same NIST that has the website "nist.gov"? The same organization in which The position of NIST director is a presidential appointment.?
http://www.technology.gov/GovReleases/p_NIST-011130.htm

I'll address the rest later.

nist an independant org?? guilianni was an ex prosecutor and knew the consequence of eliminating evidence--
heres an excellent video detailing his treason

Sunny, tell us all what you think happened in Shanksville.

Or, if you wish, you can tell us all what you think happened at the Pentagon. Don't just ask questions or post you meaningless opinions of Guiliani.

Tell us exactly what you think happened either at Shanksville or at the Pentagon.

We already have four threads on 9/11 active, and, frankly, the conversation seems fairly identical in all three. Unless someone can give me a good reason to keep this one open, I'm pruning the tree.