OK SINCE IM BORED OUT OF MY MIND!
assuming you all believe in the apocalypse, the end time, end of the world thing where jesus returns and god destroy the world because god is fed up with man-kind. so what im saying is, how do we know the first jesus 2006 yrs ago was really the son of god and not the devil in disguise whos doing miracles to make people believe in his name (jesus) and in doing so, eventually everyone else later on will basically throw themselves to jesus. to the devil time is of no importance. and even though as jesus hes healing the sick and all that, which is not a part of his character, but THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
with that in mind.. the devil then later send these prophecies to these prophets in their dreams who writes about the coming of the anti-christ and warns the believers about him. ok fine.. but what if the anti-christ is the real son of god sent here by god to set people straight, to wake humanity up. however since the devil already brain-washed people for so long that he is the real christ... man would likely set out to kill this anti-christ.. and thus piss off God who then will damn all soul and destroy the world.. just as the devil had planned for all along..... (example..if you accuse someone of wrong doing by being the one to first point the finger... most likely the by-stander would have a first impression that you are what you are accused of until proven innocent.)

So, if there is a god, he would be confident and he wont worry about if man-kind believes in him or follows his rules. He would not need his son to be his P.R. If he made man with is will, then his will can be made at any given time.. and thus we are expendible. He can always make another man-kind once he destroys the ones hes grown tired of.

only the devil would want to make sure someone follows him and believes in him cus the devil is insecure. so he doesn't care what name hes followed as.. satan, lucifer, jesus.. etc. and he doesn't care what he has to do to make people believe in him or give him their souls... since you can catch more flies with honey, he heals the sick, raise the dead, turn water into wine..

so the best trick of the devil is not making you think he does not exist..
the best trick is making you think he was the son of god.

lol that made me laugh, could be true though, all the Xians would be crying "i didnt know i didnt know!!!!!" i would laugh my ass off...... good theory though

hahahhaha i know... they'd be crying i didn't know all the way to hell.. lol!!!
and the devil will be waiting down there and quoting paris hilton: "that's hot!"

It's called faith for a very good reason.

People choose an ideal, and they have faith that it's true.

If people couldn't rely on using the word faith, they might have been proved wrong already. Too bad you can't prove a faith wrong.

Faith?
I think Faith is just a better way of saying "Blind illogical trust with absolute Denial".
I am not sure about the whole story of the 10 commandments.. but i believe that somewhere on those stone tablets it says not to worship any idols or symbols?
gee i wonder what the crusifix is??? ::scratches head:::

"What is the devil's greatest trick?"







Here's a thought. Just a small one mind. Ever wondered why the prince of darkness was called by a name that translates in the Latin as ; light bringer?

At one time catholic mass was delivered in Latin, unto the congregation as they sat with their backs to the priest. And unless one was privileged the majority of those congregants in many cases, that sat and listened and repeated the prayers and genuflected on reflex were illiterate. Tis what lent itself to many a mass murder in god's name during the inquisition. As the victim was unable to read the charges against them. God loves you, that's why we cleanse you of those sins he bestowed from the time of the Adam, in flames!


Goddess bless the bold of heart! Thank you for this thread.

And actually, given the materials for review, if one reads the OT god himself represents in his edicts to his people and at his own hand, all the sins we're told the devil is: The father of lies, the deceiver:

John 8:44 (New International Version)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jeremiah 20:7 (King James Version)
LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived; thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.


2 Thessalonians 2:10-15 (KJV)
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (Unmerciful. Also the domain of the satan/lucifer, no?!)


1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Ezekiel 14:9 (KJV)
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

The satan/devil/lucifer, is said to be the lord of temptation. (Which is what started the whole damnation thing, what with that tree of knowledge, snake apple eating bit.)

Genesis 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

(Not only tempted, but ultimately demanded murder of his only son. Fascinating later, he sent himself as his son to be murdered to save the souls of the souls he'd damned in the OT. Perhaps another trait of the satan is; quirky. *And yes, yes I know. He stopped Abraham before he killed his only son. However, before that instant, Abraham was fully committed to the will of the god he took seriously in asking the sacrifice. Maybe because he knew him well enough to worship the god that asked it!?)

And as many satanists today are slandered as murders of children, adults and animals, lets not forget the biblical accounts wherein god commands murder: Exodus 32:27 nd he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

And many presume satanists to be of low character, because of their form of worship being believed to be moraly bankrupt. So let's not forget god's OT command to the Hebrews about to flee Egypt, to rob the Egyptians. Exodus 3:21-22

And then of course there are those that say the satan is the embodiement of hate. However one would be loathe to say that and forget that in order to worship the christ one was told they must hate. Luke 14:26 (King James Version) If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


And while there are apologists that shall spring forth and say;untrue, untrue! There are verses that contradict that! They would be correct. However, one of the other traits of the satan was that he deceived with riddles! Yet, prophets often communicated in parables and/or riddles. (Example: 2 Samuel 12:1-6 ; 1 Samuel 5:1-7 ; Ezekiel 17:2-10)

When you have seen me you have seen the father, so said the christ. Communion to the covenant is everything we're led to believe is satanic. Consuming blood and flesh. *Not forgetting the blood/flesh sacrifices of the OT era* Then, with the new covenant it becomes a gentler committment? Wine and bread? How about the holy trinity!? 3. What was formerly sacred to the pagans as representative of the cycles of all creation. Life, Death, Re-birth. Heaven, that after life, that re-incarnation into heavenly bodies. Also a faith first held by pagans. Perhaps that is the full import in Isaiah when god said. I am the darkness and the light. The evil and the good.

Indeed, perhaps the reason christians are called sheep is because they, unawares, bow to the Sheppard wearing the disguise of the satan beneath.

The Fallen son of God's finest trick would have to be...His perfect deception in desguising
a broken heart and insermountable dissapointment with a costume of Evil.

S oyou don't believe Jesus was the son of God. Fine, your opinion. However, Satan's goal is to drive people away from god. If Jesus was satan, why in the hell (no pun intended) would he speak of worshiping god, giving your life unto him, and asking for forgiveness. Satan would not tell people to honor god, but rather, try to make them drift away from him. A little thinking is all it takes...

I don't disagree with you. Christianity is full of contradictions.

The devil's greatest trick is taking a form, I suppose. The devil was never mentioned in the bible, he was only ever created to discredit the Pagan's religious ideals so people will turn to Christianity instead. Until then, I guess the devil was just the idea of evil, without a real name or definite form. The snake, the beast. Just something we can compare with so we have any idea what good is. The devil's greatest trick is making us think "he" is more than an idea.

This is completely from a religious perspective, of course. I think the entire religion is ridiculous, personally.

If this were the case then why did Jesus preach the word of God? Why would the anti-christ preach the word of God?

Many people will think that the "anti-christ" will be the "Son of God". Many people will worship him thinking that he is "God." However, the head of the beast (anti-christ) will not preach the word of God. This would only draw attention of him (Satan) and in the same time saving people and leading them to be saved by Him. This would not make any sense.

And preach the word of God? Again I ask...why would Satan preach the word of God?

As in, you know jesus was the son of god because why?

What's in a name, if the ritual serves the purpose. To get an idea of what we're communicating here, substitute god and jesus, reading scripture, for satan /lucifer.
Isn't satan suppose to be the embodiment of vanity, as one of the 7 deadly sins? Well, consider this. The god of the bible created humans and then proceeded to command he be recognized as the only god. Vanity and selfishness. Sounds devilish to me. Those sins of the flesh we're suppose to fight in ourselves, because the flesh is weak!?

It's all in the name. See, a little imagination outside the covers, (of the book) is all it takes. ...

I think the best trick the devil came up with isn't his at all. It's god's.

Okay, for argument's sake, I'm going to use simple terms so none of this "lucifer was never in the bible, this is what lucifer means, satan is derived from blah blah." I know that already.

So god created the devil and in doing so, placed doubt into our lives so that we can look at a perfectly innocent idea, item, person, whatever and there's just enough doubt in our minds to make us not take it at face value. To make us wonder if it isn't just a trick of the devil.

I saw a M*A*S*H episode recently where BJ said he could prank everyone in the camp in a spectacular fashion. Hawkeye was so paranoid of being pranked, that he ended up making a complete ass of himself in front of everyone, reacting to the perfectly innocent gestures or comments of other people. And in the end, that was actually BJ's big prank. Just placing enough of a thought in Hawkeye's head that the other shoe was going to drop.

So that's why I laugh heartily when someone insists something is the work of the devil or that the fossil record was placed by the devil to trick us (or by god to tempt us). That tiny little bit of doubt makes people question even the most obvious things. I'm not saying no one should doubt anything, but it's hilarious when people start getting so paranoid that everything is a coverup for everything else and there's something that's really going on.

Sometimes a fossil is just a fossil.

Mephastaphales was the son of GOD and the brother of Jesus. His departure from Heaven and his fall from grace was the result of what ammounts to a family drama good enough for prime time television.

His idea's were rejected and scoffed by the Father and preference given to the other son Jesus...i swear its like an episode of Dallas.

Let us not forget one of the most telling and vindacating facts of his departure.....1/3rd of the Host of Heaven went with him. That is significant and should be remembered.

I feel most of his need for revenge and make them all Pay is born out of his feelings of rejection and hurt and alot of self doubt. He reacts in such an over the top way regarding God and Jesus that its clear he is reacting emotionaly to some truama and disapointment.
Sad story for all. The Bible also state that the 'DEVIL' was the shrewdest angel in heaven.
Something to think about.

I posted this elsewhere but I think its relevant.

In Reference to the Garden of Eden we see that God is a liar and the serpent told the truth.



I think though that it can be argued that God did tell them WHY they shouldn't eat from the tree.

If you do you will surely die.

Now what happened is that God bugged out when he found out they were going to die, and so he started cursing them (cause think about the word curse and what it really means) and pitching a fit and kicking them out of the Garden etc.

But lets take it a different way. He lied.

He told them they would die if they ate from the tree. The snake told them it was the tree of knowledge.

Hmmmm

Now it could be argued that man dies at the end of his life and afore that we were immortal but it still doesn't change the fact that the snake was not a flat out liar in what he said would happen compared to God.

God didn't say anything about them getting kicked out of the garden of Eden. He didn't say anything about thistles or childbirth or condemnation.s


Here is what was said.

God said



When you eat it you will die. Eve ate it and didn't die and so she gave it to Adam. And they didn't die from eating the fruit. God pitched a fit and kicked them out but they didn't DIE WHEN they ate the fruit.

Now, here we have a discription that shows that EVE understood the implications of the fruit and not only does she think that if she EATS the fruit she will die, she thinks that if she TOUCHES the fruit she will die.

BTW this is the NIV bible.




Now the serpent said this



So according to the serpent your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing Good and evil.

So what does the bible say happened when she ate it?





Thus far it is the SERPENT who has told the truth and GOD who has lied.

Lets see further what would happen




If you notice, their death was not a result of eating the fruit. Rather it was God's decision to NOT allow them to take from the tree of life and eat and live forever. So the FRUIT is not the reason why they died. GOD is.

So from what I see here, God lied to Adam and told him that he would basically drop dead if he ate the apple. Eve listened to the snake that she would not drop dead but that her eyes would be opened and she'd know the difference between Good and Evil.

Now people always take that to mean that they became ashamed of themselves or something.

But what if before they ate the fruit they were mindless drones that would do anything God asked.

So God says "Here kill this baby" and they say "OK"

What is interesting about religion in General is that it teaches mankind not to question God's authority when our inner self tells us that something is wrong.

So for example in this forum you see people who KNOW that executing someone for being homosexual is WRONG but they deny this feeling and say "God has his reasons."

From what I see in GOD's OWN WORDS the serpent TOLD THE TRUTH and was punished for it.

Perhaps like Prometheus he was punished for giving us something GOOD rather than something EVIL.

I attended school in Florida some years ago and met a man that introduced himself to the class, as it happens saying "Hi" to all the newbies, and said: "I'm Fred. The bible says it I believe it that's it. " And then sat back down.

I sat on my hands and bit my tongue to stop myself from waving , as with a question, to say; "Which edition would that be exactly!?" Ahh first impressions.

Rowan Atkinson, dressed up as Satan, welcoming newcomers to Hell

Murders? Yes, just through here. Rapists? Bank managers? Yes, let's see here, Satanists? Yes, hello, lovely to meet you too. Atheists? Bet you feel a right lot of nit-wits now, don't you? Christians? Yes, the Jews were right after all, I'm afraid....

righty-o. I actually pitched this idea a while ago to the pastor at my church. In the gospels where Jesus was accused of driving out demons in Satan's name, Jesus replies "How can a house divided on itself stand? If I'm driving out demons in the name of Satan, then I'm working against the wishes of Satan" (paraphrased - I'm at uni and don't have access to a Bible, but you get the idea).

ANyway, I suggested that maybe it was Satan driving it out, and though it looked like Satan would have been divided, it would only be temporary, and now Satan's house is stronger than ever.

My pastor looked at me with this thoughtful expression. Then he said in very mild tones: "I hadn't thought of it quite that way before". Shortly after, he said that it's possible, but then the rest of the Bible would also have to have been written by Satan then, because Jesus fulfills the prophecies attributed to have been given God. And even were one to come to the conclusion that it was written by Satan, the fact that Jesus preached a message of Love for all people (yes, contrary to popular opinion, some churches do preach tolerance) would imply that Satan was in fact the "good guy", and we'd be worshipping right anyway.

Just a few thoughts.

Regards, PA

"Theism, as a way of conceiving God, has become demonstrably inadequate, and the God of theism not only is dying but is probably not revivable. If the religion of the future depends on keeping alive the definitions of theism, then the human phenomenon that we call religion will have come to an end. If Christianity depends on a theistic definition of God, then we must face the fact that we are watching this noble religious system enter the rigor mortis of its own death throes."
Bishop John Shelby Spong Episcopal Bishop of New Jersey

By the way, I usually don't capitalize "god," "him," "his," or "he" unless it's at the beginning of a sentence. Sometimes I will capitalize "god" if I'm thinking about it, but I just never got into the habit of doing it. I can't bring myself to capitalize any personal pronoun except "I" (blame grammar teachers who did their job too well). I mean no disrespect in not capitalizing "god," but god is such a subjective idea and I don't subscribe to the idea of god as a single entity, so capitalizing it is a bit alien to me.

Plus I'm lazy.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Removed post to obey forum rules.

Maybe the cats would do a better job. Just not the squirrels though. They'd destroy the planet.



I'm not in Israel, so am I off the hook?

Amalgamut, this board is for discussion on beliefs in a non-threatening manner. Feel free to disagree with any post, but there's no need to try and dissect the post and answer every query. Truethat posted that response on another thread - here. That's not the purpose of this board, and just leads to people trying to debunk the other person's post and/or beliefs.

Regards, PA

not sure who it was that keeps on reminding me "why would satan preach the word of God" if Jesus was really satan?..
well..i guess it all depends on how bright of a person you are.
lets just suppose that you are satan and you are just dying to get your hands on as many human souls as you can so you can one day storm heaven and take it over...
now this might be a bit more complicated for some of you who are simple minded. but the nature of satan is to be deceitful. so he disguises himself as the christ, bad mouthing himself as a 2nd person, in doing so, he gets his steady flow of followers.. willingly might i add. so now in addition to the bad people who commits crimes and whatever, you have another steady flow of souls waiting to come to him because, as sheeps, they follow without any question, they think hes the son of god just because his good book says so.
see.. for satan,one who is truly cunning and evil, he's already planned this whole thing out.. he's counting on the weak minded who would not look outside the box, who'd think that hey if he is satan why would he preach the good? why? because he want people to follow him. politicians do it all the time. and satan is the best politician.
if ur satan you'd say whatever it takes to have people on your side. you can kiss all the babies you want..visit all the orphanage you want.. give as much as you want to gain momentum...because you know the grand price is worth the effort. so what he preaches the word of god? you think satan is a single minded bull headed idiot? you don't think satan would take a different angle to have your soul?..... you think that the only way satan would go for you is to behave in his "signature" evil gaggle way? c'mon...anyways..
i believe sometimes one just need to step back and look at the whole picture and see it from another angle to get the truth..
if god is what he say he is..and truly divine, then why the hell is he so insecure and that he needs to be loved by something he created out of soil? if he indeed created the whole existance and universe, why wouldn't he just create something better? it's really not a bother to god. the alpha the omega.. the bible's god is really satan and satan is the bibles god. only an insecure being would want to recruit souls on his side.. to have souls love him... and that in itself is not godly or divine nor holy.
satan is counting on people who would not question, people who are easily fooled by kind words and simple generous gestures to win them over to his side. as i mentioned before..
to satan THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. and to live by blind faith is to live in denial.

Yep...well as far as the punishment is concerned.

lol my eyes hurt too much to read this right now my friend. Might I suggest in the future to put a space or two between paragraphs or every few points?

I've heard he can do a very convincing fart using his armpit.

Don't be fooled.
Once your down wind of that, you'll soon realize it's not a trick!

The devils greatest trick hmmm.....

I would say doing nothing then watching everyone think the devil is pulling tricks.

The devils bum might be under his armpit.

I can't believe that's the final comment on this thread , until now, and has lasted for longer than a day!

Maybe people are trying to get a visual of the posture old Nick would have in a case like that. Armpit butt, horns and a tail. Bent slightly at the waist and frustrated as all hell trying to shop for....pants.

it was man that brought the cross it was the sign of the fish for they were known.

jesus said go to james not peter,the church started with peter you have the pope now and the church saying that of jesus's word.
but in order to see the truth one must acknowledge the father our god the first father that was.which was brought to us by his son jesus christ.
and in doing so, one is elavated from the triad of 666 to 777