I've asked several times for the CTists here that believe the government staged 9/11 to show me a timeline of events leading up to and during 9/11 as they see it. I have yet to get a response from any of them. So I took it upon myself to compose one for them.

This is obviously incredibly long and complicated, and that's the point. CTists would have us believe that each of these events were pulled off with perfect precision. Also, although some of it is humorous, I obviously mean no disrespect to the victims or their families. The humor contained within it is merely an effort to illustrate how utterly ridiculous the 9/11 conspiracy is. This, to me, is the sequence of events as they had to happen in order for some of the more reasonable 9/11 conspiracies to be true (I chose not to include nonsense like holograms and David Copperfield). I've obviously taken some license with a few matters, only because a valid alternative from the CT camp has never been provided.


So here goes:

Timeline for the events of 9/11, as CTists see it

Green text is specific to the North Tower.

Red text is specific to the South Tower.

Blue text is specific to WTC7.

Orange text is specific to the Pentagon.

Purple text is specific to Shanksville.

1992-2001

Funded by a US government black budget, scientists around the world gather to perfect human cloning. Once achieved in the fall of 1999, they immediately start perfecting this new technology, so that perfect human matches can be made easily and at an incredible rate of speed (roughly a million clones in a 24 hour period).

After handing over this perfected technology to the US government in the spring of 2001, the scientists are thanked profusely and shot on sight. Then their family’s memories are doctored so that they have no recollection of them.

1993

FBI operatives detonate a truck full of explosives in the parking garage of the North Tower. The incident is blamed on Islamic extremists, but is actually staged so that Larry Silverstein, the future leaseholder of the WTC twin towers and future owner of WTC7, can obtain a higher insurance policy on the complex.

The government at first fought Silverstein on this mission, but then realized he was Jewish and therefore part of a vast world-controlling secret society. Quickly they realized they were powerless and must submit to his bidding.

1997

Funded by yet another US government black budget, scientists secretly invent an explosive that can evade bomb-sniffing dogs, be remotely detonated without the use of wires, and be quickly affixed to support columns. This new explosive is called C-5.

After handing over this new technology to the government, these scientists are rewarded with the knowledge that they'll never have to pay taxes again, and then they are killed.

18 November 1997

The JFK Assassination Records Review Board creates and releases to the public the Operation Northwoods document. This document is the blueprint for operation 9/11. It describes a method of fooling the American public into demanding a war upon Cuba which involves several government-sponsored fake attacks upon American citizens, after which the blame would be placed upon Castro.

The reason the government gives for releasing this information is to see just how perceptive the American public will be if/when a similar operation is launched in the future. They know whomever links the catastrophic future event to Operation Northwoods will be super-intelligent and therefore, trouble.

1998 – 2001

US government exhaustively trains members of the FDNY how to plant enough C-5 in a 47 floor office building so as to bring it down neatly in its own footprint. The training concludes when the entire process can be achieved by only a few firefighters in a span of three hours. In this same time period, the government plants computer chips in each firefighter’s brain so they can be remotely activated.

Each day after training, via the computer chip, artificial memories are planted into the firefighters’ heads so that they have no recollection of the training, but still subconsciously retain the training.

1998 - 2001

Numerous maintenance jobs throughout the WTC Towers are used as cover to plant C-5.

1999

Silverstein begins process of upgrading the insurance policy on the WTC complex.

8th August 2001

Silverstein awarded new, upgraded insurance policy.

2000

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC), some of whose members are high-ranking government officials, subtly releases its document "Rebuilding America's Defenses" to the public via the internet. Within this document, the government tells the public that a catastrophe is coming, which will be the "New Pearl Harbor" it needs in order to implement its evil scheme of global domination.

The reason behind releasing this information to the public is so that the government can locate the smartest people on the planet. Those who are smart enough to link the future events on 9/11 with this document will be rounded up and studied in the future. The government believes their intellect will be most useful once full-scale global domination is achieved.

8th-9th September 2001

Fake cabling upgrades occur in the South Tower. This results in an overnight power down. While security is down, operatives move into the South Tower to finish planting C-5.

10th September 2001

Osama Bin Laden visits hospital on the advice of his CIA handler.

Moving vans full of explosives are parked in the underground garages of the both towers.

11th September 2001

7:59 - AA11 takes off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts.

8:14 - UA175 takes off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts.


8:19 - AA11 pilot, a covert CIA operative, turns off transponder and changes course.

8:20 - AA77 takes off from Dulles International Airport, near Washington DC.

8:30 - Boeing B-2 Spirit takes off from Whiteman AFB Missouri.

8:30 – AA11 lands safely in Cleveland, where it is chopped into small pieces and buried in various spots all over the world. Prior to the destruction of AA11, the passengers disembark and are herded into an unused portion of a hangar at the far end of the airport. There they are held for three days in a drug-induced stupor (drugs are added to water which the passengers are forced to drink). After the third day, under cover of night, they are loaded onto two or three jets and flown to a secret CIA base in the Philippines.

There they are subjected to intensive drug and psychic-aided brainwashing, as well as cosmetic surgery. Once they're sufficiently reprogrammed to believe their new government-invented life story, they're returned to the States to take up their new lives in a community at least 2,000 miles away from where they last lived. In their new fake lives, covert government operatives act as wives, husbands, children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, brothers, sisters, and friends.

8:31 – A Global Hawk (drone airplane) takes off from Cleveland and heads for New York.

8:42 – UA93 takes off from Newark International Airport, Newark New Jersey.

8:46 - Truck bomb in North Tower parking garage remotely detonates.

8:46:40 – Global Hawk smashes into North Tower.

8:47 - UA175 pilot, a covert CIA operative, turns off transponder, changes course.

8:50 – UA175 lands safely in Cleveland. The passengers are drugged and three days later join the other passengers of AA11 in relocation program in Philippines.

UA175 is returned to Boeing for recommissioning.

8:51 – A Global Hawk (drone airplane) takes off from Cleveland and heads for New York.

8:56 - AA77 pilot, a covert CIA operative, turns off transponder.

9:03:11 – Global Hawk hits South Tower.

9:15 – Explosives experts enter North Tower disguised as firemen to check on C-5 charges.

9:18 – Explosives experts enter South Tower disguised as firemen to check on C-5 charges.

9:30 – National Guard C-130 takes off.

9:30 - WTC7 evacuated of employees.

9:31 – AA77 lands safely in Cleveland. The passengers are drugged and three days later join the other passengers of AA11 and UA175 in relocation program in Philippines.

9:34 - NEADS advised that AA77 is missing, as planned.

9:35 - Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit launches modified Boeing AGM-86 Air Launched Cruise Missile at the Pentagon.

9:36 - C-130 circles Pentagon area causing confusion over its radar return, and that of the ALCM.

9:36:30 - Pentagon police conclude their perimeter check and conclude no witnesses are on the lawn. Video shows them returning to the Pentagon.

9:37 – Explosives experts clear South Tower.

9:37 - ALCM dives to ground skimming altitude. Its hardwired programming includes evasion to avoid anti-aircraft fire. This causes it to smash into and knock over 5 light poles on its approach to the Pentagon. Miraculously, the missile is undamaged by these collisions.

9:37:45 – C-130 drops 757 wreckage toward the direction of the Pentagon lawn.

9:37:46 - ALCM strikes Pentagon, leaving several irregular holes. This also creates a huge fireball from the modified jet engine that was previously mounted to the missile to make it look in the aftermath that a plane had struck the Pentagon. Milliseconds prior to impacting the Pentagon, the missile’s onboard mega-vacuum turns on in order to suck most of the falling 757 wreckage dropped from the C-130 into the holes it’s about to create in the side of the Pentagon.

Mission complete, the C-130 heads towards Shanksville.

9:40-11:15 – Covert CIA operatives report seeing an airplane, not a missile, crash into the Pentagon while FBI agents confiscate surveillance videos from the surrounding area that show parking lots, hotel entrances and gas pumps. The FBI creates new videos that shows a CGI Pentagon and a CGI 757 and stores them in a secret bunker.

9:49:59 – Larry Silverstein presses a mind-control button, summoning a handful of firefighters closest to the building.

9:50 – A group of FDNY firefighters jump to attention, enter WTC7, and methodically plant C-5 as trained.

9:58 - "NYPD" helicopter reports possible collapse of just the top section of South Tower, and recommends detonation.

9:58:59 – C-5 detonated, collapsing South Tower.

10:00 – Megasmoke bombs planted near WTC7’s south side windows.

10:00:15 - C-130 drops remaining 757 wreckage over a field in Shanksville Pennsylvania.

10:01 – Ground workers plant explosives in the ground in order to create a crater.

10:03 - Explosives detonated in Shanksville. Val McClatchey, a CIA operative, takes a photograph which captures the ensuing smoke cloud.

10:11 – UA93 lands safely at Pope AFB, North Carolina. The passengers are drugged and three days later join the other passengers of AA77, AA11, and UA175 in relocation program in Philippines.

10:25 - Explosives experts clear North Tower.

10:28:25 – C-5 detonated, collapsing North Tower.

10:30 – Megasmoke bombs detonated in order to create the illusion of fire.

1:15 – Firefighters, still under Silverstein’s control, evacuate the building.

17:10 - Larry Silverstein decides the public has seen enough smoke, and orders demolition of WTC7 by saying the previously assigned trigger words “Pull it”.

17:20 - WTC7 detonated, collapses.


13 September 2001

CIA photo experts, after dubbing Val McClatchey’s photo “too unrealistic”, use Photoshop to create a more realistic plume on the digital photo.

12 September 2001

The pertinent employees directly involved in the 9/11 scheme of the following companies and agencies are all killed and replaced with US government-created clones:

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),
the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE),
the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations,
the New York City Department of Design and Construction,
the Structural Engineers Association of New York,
the National Fire Protection Association,
the Society of Fire Protection Engineers,
the American Concrete Institute,
the Building and Construction Trades Council,
the American Institute of Steel Construction,
the Masonry Society,
the Pentagon security staff,
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
hundreds of steelworkers, some of whom built the WTC,
the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat,
United Laboratories,
the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory,
Controlled Demolitions, Inc.
Bovis, Inc.
Tully Construction
AEMC Construction
Karl Koch Steel Consulting, Inc.
The United Steelworkers of America
the Armed Forces Institute of Technology
the Federal Advisory Committee,
several DNA labs,
Numerous Forensic Pathologists,
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists,
Numerous Forensic Dentists,
Numerous Forensic Radiologists,
the National Medical Response Team,
the International Association of Fire Chiefs
the New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
the Fire Department of New York,
the New York City Office of Emergency Management,
the New York State Emergency Management Office,
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
the Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Arlington, VA Police Department,
the Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Pentagon Fire Unit,
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Helicopter Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
several FBI Hazmat Teams,
several EPA Hazmat Teams,
the Virginia State Police,
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the DOD Honor Guard
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the Washington, D.C. Fire Department,
the California Incident Management Team,
the Shanksville, PA VFD,
the Somerset County Coroner's Office,
the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
the Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
the State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
the Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
the Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services,
the Salvation Army Disaster Services,
the National Emergency Numbering Association
the 911 operators who took the calls from passengers,
the American Red Cross,
the National Guard in D.C., NYC, and PA.,
the Air National Guard,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
the United States Secret Service,
the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,
the New York Port Authority Police,
the New York Port Authority Construction Board
the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute,
the World Trade Center security staff,
the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York
United Airlines,
American Airlines,
the Office of Emergency Preparedness
Several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams,
Several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team,
the Virginia State Police
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the US Department of Defense,
the US Department of Justice,
the US Department of State,
the National Response Center,
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the Counterterrorism and Security Group,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes,
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Falcon 20 crew in PA,
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Transportation Safety Board,
the New York Flight Control Center,
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington,
the Cleveland Airport control tower,
the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee,
the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
the New York Times,
the Boston Globe,
the Wall Street Journal,
the Washington Post,
Newsday,
United Press International,
Associated Press,
CNN,
ABC,
NBC,
CBS,
FoxNews
MSNBC,
The government of Saudi Arabia,
The intelligence services of Saudi Arabia,
The government of the Russian Federation,
The government of Pakistan,
The intelligence services of Pakistan,
Al Qaeda,
The Royal Canadian Armed Forces,
The government of the United Kingdom,
The government of Australia,
The government of Israel,
The government of Canada,
The government of New Zealand

15 October 2001

US military forges confession tape, using Osama Bin Laden's clone, and releases it to the public.

2001-2003

US government tirelessly works to silence anyone else they missed that might have information of the scheme by replacing them with clones.

July 1 2003

US government $1.4 trillion black budget is exhausted, allowing people like Alex Jones, Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe, and Stephen Jones to free reign to expose the truth of 9/11 to millions of people via youtube and Google videos.

99 views and not a peep from any CTists? C'mon guys, surely you have an opinion on how ridiculous your theory looks when you actually look at the forest and not the bark of one tree...

hehe... It sucks when the theories are put out for full examination in the light of day.

They sound as bad to them as they do to the non-CTers!!

Well I don't believe the govt. staged it, so guess it's not for me. I just buy the "allowed it to happen" idea and the "controlled demolition" portion.

This is funny.. made me laugh.

You've certainly put a lot of effort in the post and the color code was a nice touch.

My position is down the middle in regards to whether to 911 was an inside job or not..
I don’t trust the Government. I read the CT's points and read the counter-points.

I don't think you can place all the CTs in one box.
Even Alex Jones argues with other CTs that planes were involved, not holograms etc.

Who's the true CTs in this debate anyway? Those pro 911 conspiracy who think it was an inside job or those who think Islamic hijackers were behind it. Or who’s the true skeptic? Those skeptical of the official version. If you see my point..

If you place all the theories together then it is going to sound ridiculous.

Thanks. I wrote quite a bit of it, but it's actually a collaborative effort spawned in the JREF forum. I was wrong to completely claim it as my own, so I'm glad I have this opportunity to clear the air.



Agreed, and that was one of the main reasons to create something like this. It points out pretty well the lunacy of the theories when you try to piece some of the more commonly-held conspiracy beliefs together. Imagine how insane it would look if I included holograms or David Copperfield making planes disappear...



Agreed. We can't get CTists to even agree upon a timeline, because they know if they put the work into it, the whole thing will fall apart.

Not all theories are created equal. There are a multitude of reasons why the 19 hijackers are the mainstream accepted explanation of the events, and why the other hypothesis are not; not the least of which is that the vast majority (read 99%) of professionals in the relevant fields agree with the mainstream explanation.

Note also, "Modern skepticism is embodied in the scientific method, which involves gathering data to test natural explanations for natural phenomenon. A claim becomes factual when it is confirmed to such an extent that it would be reasonable to offer temporary agreement. But all facts in science are provisional and subject to challenge, and therefore skepticism is a method leading to provisional conclusions." (Michael Shermer on "The Scientific Method" from Why People Believe Weird Things, by Michael Shermer (1997))

The CTists may be doubters, cynics, deniers, or some other adjective, but they are most certainly not skeptics in any science/logic related sense of the word.

ETA: To highlight the difference, ask a hardcord CTist what it would take to change their minds, and ask the same to a proponent of the mainstream explanation. I, personally, have never conversed with any CTist who has not responded that "nothing" will change their mind. That is a very telling answer.

Complete 911 timeline

This is the actual timeline of the actual events, not conspiracy theory events.

Just so nobody's confused.

All I had to do is read till this and that was enough for me

Funded by a US government black budget, scientists around the world gather to perfect human cloning. Once achieved in the fall of 1999, they immediately start perfecting this new technology, so that perfect human matches can be made easily and at an incredible rate of speed (roughly a million clones in a 24 hour period).

I wrote that! You likes?

Bump.

Third day without a peep from Sun or BZRK. I'd really like to get your input on this, fellas.

I offered you a live debate in real time and none has PM'ed me. Why? Scared? YES. Do i care? No, because you are one of those people who is dominated by sheer ignorance who is not willing nor challenging the Governments official take on 9/11.

I read that Time Line and most of all those items we have discussed and many people have discussed over and over and over again. But once again sheer ignorence........

Debate me in Real Time.... Arkan, TK and Co...... we will discuss one topic at a time without the negligence of you guys directing your arguments away from the main topic.

No this is not "real time". MSN Messenger is real time.

I am quiete amazed how ignorent you guys are, we discussed topics over and over again but yet we go around in circles every time.

Please a "real time" debate is it too much to ask for seriously?

Heres my email dj_bzrk@hotmail.com..... Please im on this everyday feel free to contact me.... if you dont have MSN download it its free of charge.....

Cheers

BZRK

It has already been explained to you why a "live debate" is not an appropriate method for discussing in-depth technical-laden aspects of this issue. Again, if you don't understand, watch the Shermer v. Hovind debate.

As usual rejected to debate live. I dont see any problem with that and niether should you.

But thats ok.

Your buddy with the Time Line talks about C-5 this and C-5 that its quiete obvious there are 100's if not 1000's of different types of explosives.

Based on chemical analysis of WTC structural steel residue, a Brigham Young University physics professor has identified the material as Thermate. Thermate is the controlled demolition explosive thermite plus sulfur. Sulfur cases the thermite to burn hotter, cutting steel quickly and leaving trails of yellow colored residue.

Prof. Steven Jones, who conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center and post-doctoral research at Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, has analyised materials from WTC and has detected the existence of thermate, used for "cutting" the steel support columns.

Dr. Jones is a co-founder of Scholars for 911 Truth.

Dr. Jones in earlier work pointed to thermate as the likely explosive that brought down the WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 skyscrapers. But only recently was physical material analysed in the lab and the presense of thermate announced. The samples were provided Dr. Jones team from redundant sourses.

Both BYU and Prof. Jones have been offered additional grants if he would "change the direction" of his research. In addition, there have been threats made by an individual who "is taking action" to stop Steven Jones' research, specifically his experiment with thermites (aluminothermics), on the grounds his work may be helpful to "terrorists". Jones notes that much more detailed information on both thermite and thermate is readily available on the internet.

Also you want a time line:

Here you go.....

Some of the 9/11 information on the link below may seem very hard to believe. Yet remember that each entry below is reported by respected major media sources and can easily be verified by clicking on the links provided to the original source.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11timeline25pg

If you want my detailed time line of what i think happened well.... the space on the UM forum would not be enough to accomadate that and it would make no point because no matter what we POST you guys are too ignorent to comprehent the facts and evidence provided.

Cheers

BZRK

What is this "Real time" debate again. I gave you a debate when we both online at the same time and you wouldn't do it. It took you 2 and 1/2 hours to come up with a reply that you didn't even write. Someone else wrote it for you.


Here's what I think. This "Real time" argument has become an issue for you to pretend that you can't DEBATE it here? Why NOT? What's the difference.

Please explain the difference between a real time debate and posting on here?

Because the only difference that I can think of is that you GET the other persons EMAIL address which no one wants to give you. In addition, you don't get a record of what you state the way you do here.

And finally you can resort to name calling and attack. Basically you are asking people to take it OUTSIDE and in private so that you are able to be abusive without getting banned.

Otherwise, why not post your comments here? No one else needs a "real time debate" in order to state their opinions?

I attempted to have a "real time" debate with you. We were both on this site at the same time. I posted a question and you didn't reply for 2 1/2 hours. BUT you stated that you were "working on the answer" you posted several times how you were checking facts and doing spell check.

Then someone ELSE posted the reply and it was the exact same thing you had already stated.

So you are playing games with this "Real time' nonsense.

Firstly, the so called NOT real time debate did go ahead. Yes i agree it did take 2.5 hours to reply back.... It was better to post 1 whole post than 2 separate which makes sense....

So me and Urban Legend who have known each other for years worked on it..... If you had a problem with that i apologise if your to ignorant to understand that it makes sense to post 1 whole post rather replying with 2 posts.... GET IT making it easier for u......

Actually we were checking facts just to make sure we had everything right, as usual we did and you directed your arguments away from the main focus of our post... but lets not go there.....

Ive explained many times, even if both of us are on here it is not "REAL TIME"......

We talked about Muhammad Atta's funding yet we heard no answer back, we talked about George Bush's comments about seeing the first plane hit yet the best all you ignoramuses come up with is George Bush is not a great public speaker he says dumb things blah blah blah....... Im glad you guys admit it he is a dumb arse.....

Im just soooo glad more and more people are realising the 9/11-was the greatest lie ever sold.........

And i remember you stating "guys i bow down to you" - "you WIN" in that debate......

So in the end YOU your self could not confront the evidence we put forward. IGNORAMUS....

Anyway MSN conference the debate, what have you got to lose right? You PM'd me remember asking me for my email address..... so you have it.... do something with it....DEBATE DEBATE DEBATE LIVE..... dont worry we will have a watching audience as well.....

Anyway im done talking to you guys re 9/11 issue your too ignorant or blind to accept the facts other people have brought forward to you.

TRUETHAT, you state that CLINTON is currupt but yet you fail to realise the Bush administration is currupt..... really baffles

Cheers

BZRK

WHat the heck are you talking about. You said the exact same thing you have always said in the final post.

Here's the thread

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=78504

Most people who request a debate in REAL TIME do the debate themselves. Not with their friend on the side.

You still haven't answered the question.

What IS THE DIFFERENCE between a real time debate and debating here, other than the time difference? What is the point in requesting it?

Why do you need to debate in real time. Why can't you just debate like everyone else does here.

Just so we are not confused please explain what is your REASON for wanting to debate in REAL TIME?

Also once again I have never said that Bush was not corrupt. I have stated that YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN YOUR POINT.

Bush is corrupt as they go. You seem to think that is all the proof you need for your theory. WRONG>

Hellooooo? Knock, knock, McFly!

I feel like i landed in twilight zone, where im the only person to live in timespace from 01 through 06...

American attention span has been reduced to 2 minutes of "Survivor" thanks to all the fluoride in your water. Blinking idiots.

As Fluffybunny the moderater stated in that post "If you folks wish to debate live(real time?) it would be best to do so via the chatroom, as doing a real time debate in a thread doesn't make much sense."

He is right it does not make sense. Real Time is a chat like program which we can debate oh boy...... this is what i mean by going around in circles....

Why do i need to debate in real time.....ummmmm its easier and this way you cant avoid the questions as you guys usually do....

Why cant i debate like everyone else does, well i have been but you guys have been avoiding the arguments we produce.....dahhhhhhhhhhh

REAL TIME? download MSN its for free.... its easier..... you came up with the most pathetic excuse by saying you dont want to give me your email address....blah blah blah then sign up for a made up email from hotmail...... geeeeee........

So you agree Bush is currupt. Ummmm yesss its part of the proof we need.... Bush with business partners with the family of the worlds most wanted man YES THIS IS PROOF..... why elect a man that has business relations with the Bin Laden clan, ohhhh thats right we all know the election was rigged......

Anyway im dont talking to you your like a mosquito with hiccups..... quiete annoying....

Cheers

BZRK

You wouldn't go into to chat with either me or swampgator, What's the difference between a chat and MSN. Sorry but you still haven't explained WHY you can't debate here?

You come on posting about how you want to chat in Real Time. Why don't you post your arguments here instead of posting how you can't debate unless its in real time.

You are a very strange bird. I've given up on you but couldn't help point out that when given the opportunity to chat ON HERE in REAL TIME in the chat room, you refused.

You never asked to debate on the CHAT.... i did: MSN = CHAT derrrrrrrrrr

KNOCK KNOCK.... MCFLY????

Lets chat in the chat room... i will meet you in there...... just me and u? ok....

Cheers

BZRK

As usual rejected to debate live. I dont see any problem with that and niether should you.
I don't see any problem with rejecting it.

But thats ok.
Good.

Your buddy with the Time Line talks about C-5 this and C-5 that its quiete obvious there are 100's if not 1000's of different types of explosives.
It's C-4 (or Composition C-4), not C-5.

Based on chemical analysis of WTC structural steel residue, a Brigham Young University physics professor
Who has now been put on leave for BYU for his academically piss-poor remarks.

has identified the material as Thermate.
Based on his finding of sulpher in the residue; which happens to also be a large component of gypsum drywall.

Thermate is the controlled demolition explosive thermite plus sulfur. Sulfur cases the thermite to burn hotter, cutting steel quickly and leaving trails of yellow colored residue.
Actually, no. Thermate is composed of 68.7% thermite, 29% barium nitrate, only 2% sulpher, and .3% binder. The barium nitrate is added to increase thermal effect and reduce ignition temperature.

Prof. Steven Jones, who conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center and post-doctoral research at Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, has analyised materials from WTC and has detected the existence of thermate, used for "cutting" the steel support columns.
Based on his finding of sulpher in the residue; which happens to also be a large component of gypsum drywall.

Dr. Jones is a co-founder of Scholars for 911 Truth.
Irrelevant.

Dr. Jones in earlier work pointed to thermate as the likely explosive
Thermate is not an explosive. It generates no overpressure when ignited. It just burns very hot, and perpendicular to the ground. It can not be used to cut laterally.

that brought down the WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 skyscrapers. But only recently was physical material analysed in the lab and the presense of thermate announced. The samples were provided Dr. Jones team from redundant sourses.
The "source" of the "sample" was a woman who supposedly pocketed some of the debris that was supposed to go into the monument. The sample was not taken under control conditions and the chain of evidence is questionable at best.

Both BYU and Prof. Jones have been offered additional grants if he would "change the direction" of his research. In addition, there have been threats made by an individual who "is taking action" to stop Steven Jones' research, specifically his experiment with thermites (aluminothermics), on the grounds his work may be helpful to "terrorists". Jones notes that much more detailed information on both thermite and thermate is readily available on the internet.

Provide objective, corroboratable citations for these claims, or withdraw them.

blah blah blah
More of your usual thread gulling.

I'm having trouble sifting through your timeline to find anything that isn't pure silliness, TK. After excluding clones, chip implants, etc. I find precious little material of substance.

Maybe you can specify what you'd like a serious reply to?

Thanks! So you agree this 9/11 conspiracy nonsense is silly! We've made a breakthrough!

The whole idea IS it's silly when you attempt to actually piece together the events and explain everything away using CTist....theories. For example, it's easy for a CTist to say there were explosives in the buildings but when pressed for details of how they got there and how they avoided detection, he/she can never provide them. After asking for an actual sequence of events as CTists see them over and over and getting crickets, I decided to do it myself. Everything in my timeline explains what would/could've happened if these theories are true. Naturally, it got silly because the whole 9/11 conspiracy is silly.

But be my guest and come up with a better timeline.

Cute, but no, I meant that your timeline is silly. Indeed, it's almost as silly as the official conspiracy theory. But the alternative conspiracy theory is absolutely viable, as is the timeline.

Since you did cite one example, let's start with that....

If there were explosives in the building, how did they get there and how did they avoid detection?

Two WTC office workers are on record saying unusual activities took place just prior to 9/11.

Scott Forbes

Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place. Forbes, who was hired by Fiduciary in 1999 and is now stationed at a U.K. branch office, was working on the weekend of September 8-9, 2001, and said that his company was given three weeks advance notice that New York’s Port Authority would take out power in the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason: the Port Authority was performing a cabling upgrade to increase the WTC’s computer bandwidth.

Forbes stated that Fiduciary Trust was one of the WTC’s first occupants after it was erected, and that a “power-down” had never been initiated prior to this occasion. He also stated that his company put forth a huge investment in time and resources to take down their computer systems due to the deliberate power outage. This process, Forbes recalled, began early Saturday morning (September 8th) and continued until mid-Sunday afternoon (September 9th) – approximately 30 hours. As a result of having its electricity cut, the WTC’s security cameras were rendered inoperative, as were its I.D. systems, and elevators to the upper floors.

Forbes did stress, though, that there was power to the WTC’s lower floors, and that there were plenty of engineers going in-and-out of the WTC who had free access throughout the building due to its security system being knocked out. In an e-mail to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died (Sisyphus Press) and America’s Autopsy Report (Dandelion Books), Forbes wrote: “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.”

http://69.28.73.17/thornarticles/powerdown.html

SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.

GW: When did it end?

SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9.

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/...ott-forbes.html

Ben Fountain

Ben Fountain, 42, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower.

How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/people.html

But they wouldn't have even needed to plant explosives during normal business hours. There would have been very few workers in theWTC at night, since they were all office buildings. It would be very easy for a group of demolition experts to plant explosives at night if they had help from the WTC security....

Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by Kuwam, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served.

Securacom has since changed its name to Stratesec, but is still backed by Kuwam.

According to Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, it is somewhat unusual for a single firm to handle security for both an airline and a airport. It's also unusual for a firm linked so closely with a foreign-owned company to handle security on such a "sensitive" international airport as Dulles. "When you have a security contract, you know the inner workings of everything," he said. "Somebody knew somebody," he added, or the contract would have been scrutinized more carefully.

http://prorev.com/2006/09/marvin-bush-was-...ipal-in-wtc.htm


As for the possibility of planted explosives being detected? Very unlikely, since they would be in locations unseen by office workers or maintenance personnel - directly attached to steel structural supports.

Any other specific examples that you'd like to cite?

I totally forgot about this thread.

Marvin Bush was on the Securacom's board, and was resigned his position a year before the attacks. Going from that knowledge to secret government workers wired up both towers full of explosions while the security company looked the other way is a leap of mammoth proportions.

At the very least, the bomb-sniffing dogs that were allowed in the towers would've pissed all over the floor the second they were led inside the buildings due to the fact that explosives were wired up all over the place. By the way, if Securacom were in on the clandestive operation, why in the hell would they let bomb-sniffing dogs anywhere near the buildings?

Scott Forbes has since reduced his story from "both towers cutting power for 26 hours" to "his floor in the South Tower". There would've been thousands of people corroborating his story if both towers had had their power cut. It would've been a massive problem, inconveniencing hundreds of businesses who housed their central computers in the towers.

And, how can you honestly think the world's largest demolition 6 times over could've possibly been set up, completely secretively, in the span of 26 hours? That's utterly ridiculous.



Sure, since you did so well the first time around. Explain how airplane debris instantly appeared on the Pentagon lawn and inside the Pentagon the split-second the "missile" struck.

Have you seen these videos yet???




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDUyV6aXeM...ted&search=

You see Crystal the problem is these guys are so brain washed they can't see the evidence right in front of there nose when I saw that video it gave me chills .What they will say is that it's all a hoax .The problem is the government will not even look at the video to even try to disprove it because it is so damaging to there official story .My question is why would this guy distort the sound in this video? What would be his motive for doing so? , Yes friends those are explosions you are hearing just like the one's that were reported by all the news media on that fateful day , yes it's true your government again is not telling the truth ....Also isn't it amazing how just recently the bones they found at the WTC happened to belong to the pilot flying plane how sweet for the government's case.....you see you need to learn how to connect the dots people start thinking critically.......!

The WTC security was then taken over by a company with Wirt Walker III, cousin of Marvin Bush, as its president. They had the WTC contract up to and including 9/11. Did I forget to mention that? Guess I did.



Where the dogs were allowed to go sniffing might matter. We don't know those details, but it would make sense that they limited the searches to publicly accessible areas. Restricted access areas for the structural supports would therefore not be searched.



Nobody has disputed his account, either. So it is still valid.



No, it's utterly ridiculous to claim that I ever said or believed that! I don't know how many man-hours it would actually take, but the fact is that it's still doable - if it takes days, weeks, months, or even years.



Sure. But first, I saw no reply to my point that explosives wouldn't be detected by office workers. Did you overlook it, or did you concede it but not reply?

Let me know and then we can move on to the rest....

I won't bother to look this up and just assume it's true. Because assuming it's true doesn't even come close to proving 9/11 was an inside job. It's like saying the owner of a gas station was responsible for the Exxon Valdez spill.



Of course you'll assume that the dogs were confined to a certain area. That's the only way you can get around the fact there were bomb-sniffing dogs in a bomb-infested building. My point is, if the mighty government was in control the whole time, why in the hell would they let bomb-sniffing dogs anywhere near the towers? It's completely ridiculous.



He disputed HIS OWN account!



I disagree. There is no way it could've been set up without anyone noticing. Absolutely no way.



"Office workers"? Yeah, I doubt your average-joe office worker would notice anything, other than possibly noise. Are you telling me only office workers worked in the towers? No custodians, security, or inspectors ever roamed the halls and stairwells or poked around behind the scenes? I'd imagine, since these were once the two tallest buildings on earth, that there was quite a crew of people employed just to maintain the buildings themselves. Those people would surely notice bombs attached to support steel.

Amusing, but I see a few holes...the ALCM is a nuclear missile, not a conventional weapon, so therefore the type you are looking for would be a CALCM, and I'm fairly certain that there are no CALCM stationed at Whiteman. I could be wrong there. But due to the design of either of these missiles, there would be no way to 'mount' anything on the outside of it. And trust me, if it were to hit even one light pole, it would be severely damaged and probably crash. Not to mention that the GPS tracker that feeds the missile its location would be taken out by any sort of hit, due to its placement.

*cough, cough* Don't ask how I know these things.

Other than the CALCM stuff, I'm fully aware of how ridiculous this stuff sounds. Of course a missile could never bounce off 5 light poles and survive intact. However, CTists have claimed that a missile hit the Pentagon and 5 light poles were plucked from the ground. We all know that's impossible, but I had to fill that gap somehow, no matter how ridiculous it was.

I'm also pretty sure a Mega-Vacuum couldn't actually be mounted to a missile.

There are actually both varieties. Also, the nuclear cruise can be converted into a conventional. This was done during the Bosnian conflict when we nearly depleated our stocks of the conventional ones and replacing them would take longer than wanted. Many people at the time, myself included, felt that Clinton had given he enemy info about our firepower.

Back ot the time line....

I thought that it was riviting. The story had enough twists and surprises to be a Monday night movie. Unfortunately, in order to wrap this story up in time for the ten o'clock news, you had to bring in the clones. It was a great sci-fi story up to that point. Now a days, every fiction writter leans on clones to solve his plot fixes. Next time, could you maybe include the Vegetable Alliance or maybe some aliens with ray guns or something? The clone idea has been played out.

Seriously, I did enjoy actually reading it in chronological order like that. It makes it a lot easier to understand that trying to follow it from thread to thread. I still think that it was 99% b.s. though. As I've stated before, I might buy that the U.S. shot down the plane over Shanksville but, that is about as far as I can go with it. All the rest just seems like a Hollywod blockbuster movie from the late 1980's.

I said...

The WTC security was then taken over by a company with Wirt Walker III, cousin of Marvin Bush, as its president. They had the WTC contract up to and including 9/11.



Get serious. I never claimed it singlehandedly "proved" 9/11 was an inside job! You have the same bad habit as other Government CT's - or what might be called the same tactic. That is, you isolate one possible connection mentioned, exclude every other piece of evidence that may connect to it and support the case, and then righteously claim "it doesn't prove anything". It's simply one more potential piece of evidence which can be added to many other points of evidence, in order to make up a much larger body of evidence, or "case". Haven't you ever watched trials - either real or in movies? They introduce physical evidence as "Exhibits", and support their cases with witnesses, links between people and companies involved, etc. In your scenario, the first piece of evidence introduced by the prosecution would have the Judge saying "That doesn't prove he did it!", not even consider any other evidence that supports it. and rule in favor of the defendant, right there on the spot!



Bomb-sniffing dogs could be trotted all over the publically accessible areas of the towers, and nothing would ever be found. Because the support structures are off-limits, restricted access areas - and that's exactly where the explosives would be, and needed to be, placed.



No, his account hasn't changed in any significant way. Unless you can point out something specific that's been altered enough to negate his basic account.



As I said, the structural supports for the towers were NEVER seen, or accessible, to the office workers and general public. The NIST report even details many of the post-construction maintenance, repairs, and upgrades done within the towers year after year right up to 9/11. The fireproofing was re-applied numerous times, and no office workers would even have a clue that it was ever being done. And we know that the fireprofing was always being applied to the critical support areas - columns, beams, trusses, etc. There was virtually unimpeded access to these areas, directly from restricted access elevators - 24/7, year after year.

To say that they could re-apply fireproofing, perform countless other inter-structural repairs and maintenance, year after year with nobody noticing, but couldn't do the same with explosives, is completely incorrect.



And this goes to my basic point. I mean, it's more than obvious that any group capable of planting explosives will also be in control of access to these areas. General maintenance workers (such as Rodriguez) did not haul DustBusters up through elevator ceiling hatches and crawl around vacuuming the columns!

As long as the group(s) doing the work within / amidst the critical structural supports are controlled, the only thing left to worry about after that is "What day and time you want that to go off?"

Just addressing one point for now, since I'm short on time (and patience for going over the same exact crap over and over).

Forbes initially stated that there was a powerdown scheduled for TOWER 2 (not Tower 1, and not WTC7 - you still have to explain away how those buildings got mysteriously wired up), from the 50th floor up on September 8 & 9:

http://www.911review.com/errors/wtc/forbes.html

In this interview, Forbes backs off his intial statement:



Also, still waiting on anyone at all to come along to corroborate Forbes' story...

First, regarding "how those buildings got mysteriously wired up" - maybe you didn't read my previous post where I said...

...the structural supports for the towers were NEVER seen, or accessible, to the office workers and general public. The NIST report even details many of the post-construction maintenance, repairs, and upgrades done within the towers year after year right up to 9/11. The fireproofing was re-applied numerous times, and no office workers would even have a clue that it was ever being done. And we know that the fireprofing was always being applied to the critical support areas - columns, beams, trusses, etc. There was virtually unimpeded access to these areas, directly from restricted access elevators - 24/7, year after year.

To say that they could re-apply fireproofing, perform countless other inter-structural repairs and maintenance, year after year with nobody noticing, but couldn't do the same with explosives, is completely incorrect.

No great "mystery" whatsoever.

As for Forbes - if he first said WTC 2 instead of WTC 1, that's simply a mix-up of one tower number for the other, a basic slip in wording like everyone has done at one time or another. It doesn't have any relevance to his account of what happened.

And you say "Forbes backs off his intial statement". Exactly what did he say in his initial statement that he later backed away from? It seems like if he first said something like "The power was shut down in the building", because he had heard that, then to later say "I can't absolutely verify" it, then it's a fair stretch to call it "backing off".

But as I said, nobody (including Forbes) even would have had to notice anything unusual - a team could discretely plant the explosives at the supports of the structures and nothing would ever be detected by office workers.

Yes, the converted ALCM is called a CALCM, or Conventional Air Launched Cruise Missile. And I believe they were still doing the conversion up until a few years ago, but it seems to be a mostly abandoned project now(the conversion, that is).

You know what, Turbs? I don't care anymore what you believe. I'm sick of going over the same crap again and again. You will never be convinced of anything other than the government carried out the attacks, no matter what evidence is placed directly in front of your face that contradicts it. You engage in circular arguments and nitpick tiny little meaningless semantics for days and never really address the actual issue.

You insist that most of the concrete in both towers was pulverized with 9 pounds of explosives per floor, which is utterly ludicrous, but common sense never really enters the picture, does it? Same with this Forbes thing. You refuse to apply common sense. If the entire South tower (or North, like you're now claiming) was shut down THERE WOULD BE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO CORROBORATE HIS STORY!!! But not one person in the past 5 years has said a word. Now, you're expecting me to go digging through the internet, trying to find out which tower Forbes actually worked in (or even if he worked there at all), and we'll argue that for about two pages, and never resolve it, and the whole line of thinking will get flushed away while we're dealing with a minuscule little meaningless thing.

You flat-out refuse to look at the bigger picture. No matter where Forbes supposedly worked, he worked in only one building. He doesn't even account for half of his one building, either. He says there was a power down from the 50th floor up in his building. What about the other half of his building? What about the other tower? What about WTC7? If you're bringing up Forbes to explain how they wired up a tower, you lose. Forbes only serves to muddy the picture. Because if Forbes came out tomorrow and said he never worked in the towers and he was just joking, you would revert to your "any clandestine operation would have free reign to wire up the towers and WTC7 with explosives at will because no one EVER looked at the support steel" argument, which of course, is completely stupid. For some reason, you believe only office workers worked in the buildings and that there was no maintenence staff whatsoever dealing with the every day operation of the towers themselves.

You are hell-bent on believing the impossible happened, and no one will sway you. You've made that clear. Instead of explaining the impossible stuff that happened (according to you), you just sway the conversation to a place where you know you can grind it to a halt by delving into meaningless semantics.

You can't answer how plane parts got on the Pentagon lawn and inside the hole, so you divert. You can't explain how a missile hit the Pentagon and somehow managed to knock over 5 lightpoles, so you divert.

I'm sick of this never-ending conversation. You are now in the same camp as sunofone, in my eyes - just constantly regurgitating old issues over and over and never actually listening to the other side you so passionately argue against.

Didn't Forbes later admit that only his company's offices on 1 floor were powered down and he assumed the rest?

I believe he did, yes. I think the info is in 9/11Myths.com, but that site is blocked here.

WHAT evidence?? The FBI admits they have no hard evidence that Bin Laden was even involved in 9/11, for crying out loud!! Too absurd for words....



Says the person who makes a non-stop issue over what Forbes said, or didn't say, or really meant to say. Hardly the main issue



Wrong. I never said it was, or had to have been, 9 lbs. or 900 lbs. per floor. Let alone "insist" that it was.



Forbes is not the bigger picture. As I've already explained to you, the explosives could be planted without anybody knowing, or suspecting, or whatever! The viability of a CD does not live or die with Forbes' account, or his reliability, or his accuracy, or his believability. If you want to really address the issue, stop with the minutia about Forbes.



The impossible is the official 9/11 fairy tale. The impossible is the official collapse theory. If even the Laws of Physics won't convince you, then I suspect that nothing ever will. Believe in cartoon world as reality, where massive steel and concrete buildings go "poof" in seconds, as deviously calculated would happen by the evil mastermind behind it all. This deranged cave-dweller dispatched 19 of his henchmen, some of whom were also top-gun pilots, to America. Armed to the teeth with lethal X-acto knives, they simultaneously hijacked 4 large passenger planes, and veered them around, zooming top speed towards their targets. Against these diabolical terrorists, the multi-billion dollar, most advanced defense system in the world proved to be about as formidable as Polish swordsmen on horseback once were against Panzer tanks!

I know, it's all so very possible, isn't it? Reality, shmeality!! Who needs it!!



Oh, sorry. OK - plane parts on the lawn.....that's a tough one. I guess if plane parts are there we should all realize that proves the official story beyond any doubt, right? They said a plane hit the Pentagon, and look - here's some plane parts! Did you see anybody plant 'em? No? Well then, those are obviously plane parts from the plane we told you that hit the Pentagon. These plane parts are really close to the plane crash....that we told you happened here. It's the only plane that crashed here, so if those are plane parts over there, then they came from that plane. Unless you saw somebody plant 'em?

Look, to be serious, all they have to do to prove it was Flt. 77 is simply show us the unique serial and part numbers that match. And a video of the plane. They still haven't shown us squat. It's a bit more than trying to prove if parts got planted on the lawn. when the parts themselves haven't even been proven as genuine.

And I never said a missile was either used or one of the things used. And I suppose they said "Look at those light poles. Only a 757 could have bent 'em like that!"

They have the burden of proving their story. They haven't proved squat. And for you to accept it, then turn around and claim my story has no proof, is completely ridiculous.

Whatever. Agree to disagree I guess. I'm tired of arguing with a brick wall.

Good luck to you.

I would have expected better of you that to play this racist card, turbonium. Just because they were arabs doesn't mean that they couldn't come up with the idea, organise the whole thing, or learn to fly. As to the knives, don't forget that pre-9/11 airport security was full of holes and the standard response to a hijack was to play along with the hijackers demands.

Not to mention the 6 US war simulations taking place at the same time

Is this atypical for a Tuesday in September? How many exercises do you think are going on in any given day? Should the military not be practicing?

My thoughts exactly.

And I wish you the best of luck, as well.

Hold on. How is what I wrote below.....

This deranged cave-dweller dispatched 19 of his henchmen, some of whom were also top-gun pilots, to America. Armed to the teeth with lethal X-acto knives, they simultaneously hijacked 4 large passenger planes, and veered them around, zooming top speed towards their targets.

...playing a "racist card"??

I simply summarized the official story, in all its absurdity. The definition and synonyms for absurd are entirely fitting descriptions for the official story....

Absurd (adjective) So senseless as to be laughable: foolish, harebrained, idiotic, imbecilic, insane, lunatic, mad, moronic, nonsensical, preposterous, silly, softheaded, tomfool, unearthly, zany.

Why you seem to think I've based this on some belief that Arabs are "incompetent" or something is beyond me. It's also ridiculous to make such an assertion.

Regarding the airport security, there's yet another chapter to add to the official 9/11 fairy tale - Bush recently said that several of the "hijackers" set off the metal detectors, then after being individually "wanded" to locate the metal, were still allowed to board the planes!!

OK, I can really buy that one!

Let's add it to the list....

- Who cares that no explanation has been given for how several "hijackers" could set off metal detectors, then be "wanded" to locate the metal, but incredibly not have these metal items removed from their possession before being allowed to board the planes?

- Who cares that not even one airport surveillance video shows even one of the supposed 19 "hijackers" checking in for their flights on 9/11?

- Who cares that the passenger lists released to the public have no hijackers listed - by either their true name or any aliases?

- Who cares that the official passenger manifests have never been released to the public?

- Who cares that some media sources, such as The Boston Globe, apparently do have copies of the manifests, or have seen them, thanks to FBI favoritism?

- Who cares that the FBI list of 19 "hijackers" is faulty, and has not been corrected in any way since it was posted over 5 years ago?

There's many more obvious absurdities than this, but why bother? I mean, if anyone can't understand by this point that the official story is total nonsense and the height of controlled manipulation and suppression of evidence, nothing will ever sink in.....

Did you ever go through airport security before 911? I went to pick up my sister-in-law at the airport before 911. If you remember they didn't require you to have a boarding pass to get to the gate back then either. I set off the detector and then took out my keys, often even a set of keys wouldn't set the thing off that is how much they sometimes turned the sensitvity down. After removing my keys I still set it off. Then they started with the wand and immediately found my leatherman on my belt which I had forgotten about. I pointed to it, let them know what it was and they waved me through. So they not only let me through with it they also did not finish the wanding. I could have had something else on my person but they didn't even check. This is how airport security was.

The lists that don't show the hijackers are victims list, not the full passneger lists. The full passenger lists have been released though and are available to be found on the internet. There is a link at the bottom of this page
http://www.911myths.com/html/no_hijackers_..._manifests.html

That...is a highly contradictory statement. Surprised you let that one pass.