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Mysterious Molecules
I am a very happy person today. Today, or rather this night, i realised that lucid dreaming and the few lucid moments i had in dreams in the past, we're not imaginary and/or fiction in any way.

This stuff is very real... Very real indeed.

I've been concentrating now for months, doing small exercises asking myself "am i awake or am i dreaming" and believe me or not. Concentrating and taking the subject serious will make you more aware inside dreams.

I knew it had to be real because in the months of concentrating i've had several weird experiences while falling asleep. Like waking up and hearing voices in my head. Beeing awake in physical reality with the dream "audio" still running. It didn't feel insane, it was as if i knew it was just the dream causing it.

Anyways i feel like sharing this particular first real controlled lucid dream.

I was just dreaming some stuff about my parents and stuff. In IRL me and my mother had several conversations about lucid dreaming and by jolly god i dreamt of this happening (me and my mum talking of lucid dreams) and suddenly.. BOOM.. I knew i was dreaming.

At first i had to laugh because my parents we're dressed in 80's disco clothing. Actually it was very amusing the whole thing. I told my parents "JESUS, THIS IS A LUCID DREAM HOW IRONIC" and they looked at me as if i had gone crazy and tried to talk me out of that strange idea. I asked them if they truly believed themselves to be real and commented on the 80's disco clothing while i laughed at them. They just laughed with me and acted like i was beeing weird.

I knew i wasnt gonna make them believe me as they we're just part of the dream so i thought i'd move on. So i went out into the street (every step i took i kept repeating "this is a dream, this is a dream" to keep myself lucid. It was pitchblack night. I thought to myself, "ok last time i tried to fly, so if this is really a dream i should be able to jump to the moon". The physical feeling of the "world" i was in, was still very real so i was starting to become a bit scared of jumping into space because physcial laws seemed to work fine in the dream.
The feeling of fright made me somehow loose lucidity a bit, because i remember loosing control. I regretted wanting to jump into space, but somehow just thinking about it suddenly made it happen as if the earth itself disspeared below me. Up i went like a rocket and the fright awoke me in my bed. SADLY sad.gif

But then again, i'm happy now because i know i can control it and make myself better at it with training and time. The feeling of beeing aware inside a dream still dosn't feel as "realtime" as i'd imagined it. You're aware that it's a dream, but it still is a dream and you really have to concentrate on reminding yourself that your asleep or the void sucks you in completely and fast.
I felt like i was coming in and out of lucidity many times during the dream.

Well i hope this has helped others to keep the exercises coming.
Lizardian_guy
A word of advice, and I'll guarantee it'll sound weird right now, but will blow your mind if you truly dream the way you do:

Be careful. Dreams are abstract connections to other existence. Normally, you just perceive weird stuff, but if you force interaction, then you create a conduit. And not all things across existence are human. And most of them enjoy human pain. It amuses them.
rapid7

QUOTE(Lizardian_guy @ Sep 19 2006, 11:07 AM) [snapback]1356234[/snapback]

A word of advice, and I'll guarantee it'll sound weird right now, but will blow your mind if you truly dream the way you do:

Be careful. Dreams are abstract connections to other existence. Normally, you just perceive weird stuff, but if you force interaction, then you create a conduit. And not all things across existence are human. And most of them enjoy human pain. It amuses them.


I wouldn't/couldn't be so specific but I have often wondered if this kind of behavior, such as controlled lucid dreaming, does not in fact place you on someone's radar so to speak.
ie You can bring unwanted attention to yourself.
I don't know, pure speculation but not completely without merit.

Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Lizardian_guy @ Sep 19 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]1356234[/snapback]

A word of advice, and I'll guarantee it'll sound weird right now, but will blow your mind if you truly dream the way you do:

Be careful. Dreams are abstract connections to other existence. Normally, you just perceive weird stuff, but if you force interaction, then you create a conduit. And not all things across existence are human. And most of them enjoy human pain. It amuses them.


Well thanks for the warning i guess :S

I do think that what im experiencing is far from another dimension and i don't think something could come from my dreams to hurt me. That would mean i had gone insane somehow and lost the grip on what is reality and dreams.

Although that line does seem a bit blurred out starting this morning. I actually remember myself walking around inside a dream and trying to stay aware that it was a dream. Very odd.

Feels more like dreaming a dream of beeing awake inside a dream, than actually waking inside the dream. But i did experience the feeling of free will and the need to explore and try out the possibilities within the dream, now that i was aware that it was merely a dream.

I think i ruined it by getting too scared. I should've made some light flight like i used to do in my first lucid dreams (i didnt know about lucid dreams back then and had a hard time figuring what had happened) but offcourse i had to think of rocketing into space and get scared. sad.gif

(i don't think imma get on anyones radar, it just feels like i've discovered a normal human ability that has somehow gotten lost in todays age. This stuff can be learned and mastered by just about everyone i would think.)
Pelican_Eel
Ykaedhi Aewee, congratulations...original.gif I enjoyed reading this, because I'm trying to do the same thing. All I got was a few semi-lucid dreams, but I keep trying. It is nice to read one more "attestation" that
QUOTE
This stuff can be learned and mastered by just about everyone
.
By the way, isn't it strange that dream characters usually don't accept they are in a dream? Like your parents. I had one dream as well, where I walked with my cousin and we were talking, then I started talking about lucid dreaming and he just ignored me. Then I just had to forget this topic.

QUOTE
And not all things across existence are human. And most of them enjoy human pain. It amuses them.

Scary! Why nobody mention it in LD sites!?
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(justejust @ Sep 19 2006, 06:47 PM) [snapback]1356670[/snapback]

By the way, isn't it strange that dream characters usually don't accept they are in a dream? Like your parents.


Yeah lol they we're just like my "real" parents though. Laughing and rolling eyes at what i was saying hehe.

I kept asking them if they really believed themselves to be real and they sure did.

I just damn well hope that it won't be months untill this happens again. I don't think so for some reason. I think this is just the beginning of something extraordinary, i completely have lost the insomnia i used to have because i can't wait to go to sleep grin2.gif

But i wish you good luck and promise you that it will happen if you keep going. Take it from a skeptic like me :" This is not some myth created for marketing etc etc, this sh** is r-e-a-l and it damn well rules."

One step at a time and patience are keywords original.gif


Lizardian_guy
I didn't say you could "see another dimension". If anyone could do that, mankind would usher into a new golden age. It's much more complicated than that. The whole point of it was "be careful".
Ryo Ohki
I can be in 2 places at once in my dreams.
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Lizardian_guy @ Sep 19 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]1356796[/snapback]

I didn't say you could "see another dimension". If anyone could do that, mankind would usher into a new golden age. It's much more complicated than that. The whole point of it was "be careful".

The worst that could happen was death... Atleast i think and hope so.

I will be sure to report any negative side effects from this stuff if they should occur.
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Ryo Ohki @ Sep 19 2006, 08:40 PM) [snapback]1356802[/snapback]

I can be in 2 places at once in my dreams.

Sounds... Confusing tongue.gif
coldethyl
Lucid dreaming is the best.

Keep a dream diary too and that helps progress it as well!

Good one!!

And I don't believe that stuff about dimension jumping for a second.
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(coldethyl @ Sep 19 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]1356888[/snapback]

Lucid dreaming is the best.

Keep a dream diary too and that helps progress it as well!

Good one!!

And I don't believe that stuff about dimension jumping for a second.

Already do, but thanks for the advice! original.gif

It's a very good advice though it helped me alot in sorta "keeping the dreams" alive and in memory while also enhancing my further dreams. The enhancing part might've been personal, but somehow my dreams just started having some big plots and storys connected with them after starting the diary.

Here's one example if you care to read, i will keep it way shorter and less detailed than it was to save you from beeing bored. :

In one dream (not lucid) the whole earth was beeing "reformatted" by it's creators which in this scenario was aliens coming in with big alien vessels. It looked like newyears eve with all the lasers and stuff.
Then they put up a big big metal fence around the whole globe, that then tranformed into this gigantic metal egg sorrounding the whole planet. Everyone just stood watching in ave and you could hear the cracking of the metal way up in the skies as it came together.

Silence...

Then suddenly everywhere there was light, boom bang everything turned white and out of the fog came a brand new earth. New animals, new scenery, NEW GRAVITY, new everything. Aliens were gone and alot of other stuff happened. I remember jumping through the mountains in the low gravity and playing with these hamster looking creatures with wings together with my dad.

Well whatever...Just felt like sharing the "big" feel to this dream. It was amazing to experience such a dream and i wrote it all down in every little detail because i want to remember it forever.
jrree57
Hi kabhi,

Your dream was a typical awareness or awakening dream. You are becoming conscious in your real world and your dream world ,at the same time. Unbeknown to your parents who are still living in there reality or dream. most people do live in their fantasies and dreams of who they think they are .don't wake your parents up and you keep growing. original.gif
Kazahel
Hey well done on your lucidity! Its the best feeling when you personally know its real and not just something made up to sell books huh. Its like.. once that stage is over now you can have some fun hey. I wouldnt bother talking too much to dream characters unless they are.. unique, because they do just tell you that your being silly or whatever and if anything all they really do is make you lose lucidity because you tend to go along with the dream still, so the more you interact with characters the more chance you have to lose lucidity. Depending on how you interact though. lol

Also dont worry about spooky stuff or things trying to get ya because of lucid dreaming. I think some people just say that because... ah I dunno... But if anything the more lucid you get the more confidence you get, and if you can create your surroundings and objects ect then what is there to be afraid of? Lucid dreams are a great for relieving fear, not acquiring it imo. And its pretty rare to have a lucid nightmare hey.

Basically though I would just keep going with what your doing and test reality lots during the day. I found when you start to lucid dream you only get better at it because you gain personal belief through experience, and confidence, which helps it progress more..like you get more into it because you 'know' its 'real' and not a maybe anymore.

And if your worried about flying into space why not try some running on earth first! thumbsup.gif

A metal egg huh... that dream sounded pretty cool btw.




Mysterious Molecules
Heh thanks for the encouragement. I'm not really scared of anything bad happening to me either. I got scared of jumping into space simply because i knew i could and knowing that within 3 seconds you can be in outer space is frightening once you're actually experiencing it tongue.gif

Otherwise my dream-me seems to be alot calmer than myself. I'm not affraid of beeing alone in the dark, inside dreams for example.

I think and believe that lucidity during a nightmare would only make the nightmare kinda go away as i would now know that it wasn't real and therefore not be affected by it.

And yeah it was an awesome dream i had with the metal egg, biggest most connecting, sensemaking dream i'd ever had and i think it could become a cool movie if made right tongue.gif
Lady_Anvilabeel
Lucid dreams are great
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Anvil @ Sep 21 2006, 03:17 AM) [snapback]1358798[/snapback]

Lucid dreams are great

Yeah but hard to reattain sad.gif

Woke up right now, having a nightmare about a guy laying on top of my sleeping girlfriend and touching her. I went overthere and banged his head into a table a couple of times.

He returns with a freaking long snake in his hands. Suddenly i got a knife in mine. I tell him if he gets closer i'll cut his throat, he dosnt care and hurls the snake in my direction while still having a grib in it's tail.

It bites me in my leg and i awake with a jolt.

No lucidity whatsoever sad.gif

Gotta do some more reality checking i guess.
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 21 2006, 08:24 AM) [snapback]1359070[/snapback]

Yeah but hard to reattain sad.gif

Woke up right now, having a nightmare about a guy laying on top of my sleeping girlfriend and touching her. I went overthere and banged his head into a table a couple of times.

He returns with a freaking long snake in his hands. Suddenly i got a knife in mine. I tell him if he gets closer i'll cut his throat, he dosnt care and hurls the snake in my direction while still having a grib in it's tail.

It bites me in my leg and i awake with a jolt.

No lucidity whatsoever sad.gif

Gotta do some more reality checking i guess.



It's just a dream!
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Anvil @ Sep 21 2006, 06:56 PM) [snapback]1359576[/snapback]

It's just a dream!

Uhm i know Anvil i was just pointing out that i didn't get lucid, but had a nightmare instead this time original.gif
coldethyl
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 19 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1356973[/snapback]

Well whatever...Just felt like sharing the "big" feel to this dream. It was amazing to experience such a dream and i wrote it all down in every little detail because i want to remember it forever.


Excellent plan! Awesome dream! I need to get my dream diary out and start keeping track again....

QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 19 2006, 10:23 PM) [snapback]1357511[/snapback]

Hi kabhi,


Who's that?
Mysterious Molecules
Yeh lol i wondered why that person called me Kabhi
jrree57
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 21 2006, 05:48 PM) [snapback]1359632[/snapback]

Yeh lol i wondered why that person called me Kabhi



Ykaedhi,

IT was a typo from my spelling checker on my computer. It changed the spelling of your name witch I did't catch before I sent the interpretation.
Episteme
Has anyone else noticed the more they become aware they are dreaming, the less bizarre their dreams become (therefore more difficult to make them lucid)? For awhile I was getting pretty good at this, having as many as 1 every month or two. Now my dreams are so stinking boring, I wake up and can't tell a difference!! Maybe I should start watching scary movies before bed? Any other suggestions to weird out my dreams? I try to do plenty of mental checks during the day and could very well be doing the same in my dreams, but my guess is they are so boring it's just not registering. It's been about six months since my last lucid dream.

My first and by far most memorable was one of those anarchy dreams. I was ushering a small group of kids through town to safety and had to sneak through this building. I peered inside and it was a morgue, bodies covered in sheets laying on gurneys. Thinking it was safe enough I started rushing the kids through to the back door. Just as I was closing the doors, the bodies started waking up and rushing at the at us! I panicked and threw myself against the door and told the kids to run... then realized, NO WAY! God wouldn't let this happen! SWEEEET! I'm dreaming!! Laughing, I stepped away and let those zombies come at me. I used Jedi-like powers to send them flying into the air with hand gestures. I got such a kick out of it, I woke myself up laughing! Corny, I know, but it was a hysterical experience. rofl.gif
War-Junkie
i started keeping a dream journal well a bunch of dreams written on paper laying in a corner and i started it in june and had a lucid dream every month since nut i havent keept a dream journal reactenly but i should get started again. but there pretty crazy.

all times i woke up was because i closed my eyes to try and fly or something.
jrree57
QUOTE(Episteme @ Sep 22 2006, 01:38 AM) [snapback]1360188[/snapback]

Has anyone else noticed the more they become aware they are dreaming, the less bizarre their dreams become (therefore more difficult to make them lucid)? For awhile I was getting pretty good at this, having as many as 1 every month or two. Now my dreams are so stinking boring, I wake up and can't tell a difference!! Maybe I should start watching scary movies before bed? Any other suggestions to weird out my dreams? I try to do plenty of mental checks during the day and could very well be doing the same in my dreams, but my guess is they are so boring it's just not registering. It's been about six months since my last lucid dream.

My first and by far most memorable was one of those anarchy dreams. I was ushering a small group of kids through town to safety and had to sneak through this building. I peered inside and it was a morgue, bodies covered in sheets laying on gurneys. Thinking it was safe enough I started rushing the kids through to the back door. Just as I was closing the doors, the bodies started waking up and rushing at the at us! I panicked and threw myself against the door and told the kids to run... then realized, NO WAY! God wouldn't let this happen! SWEEEET! I'm dreaming!! Laughing, I stepped away and let those zombies come at me. I used Jedi-like powers to send them flying into the air with hand gestures. I got such a kick out of it, I woke myself up laughing! Corny, I know, but it was a hysterical experience. rofl.gif

jrree57
QUOTE(War-Junkie @ Sep 23 2006, 09:41 PM) [snapback]1362427[/snapback]

i started keeping a dream journal well a bunch of dreams written on paper laying in a corner and i started it in june and had a lucid dream every month since nut i havent keept a dream journal reactenly but i should get started again. but there pretty crazy.

all times i woke up was because i closed my eyes to try and fly or something.



HI junkie,

Just remember that your dream are saying something about yourself. EIThER your present state or your surroundings and thats a good rule to interpretation.

About so-called "Lucid dreaming no big thing, every body lucid dreams weather they know it or not but you should chek out R.E,M. sleep states that what psychology calls it.
Kazahel
QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 24 2006, 10:11 AM) [snapback]1362690[/snapback]

About so-called "Lucid dreaming no big thing, every body lucid dreams weather they know it or not but you should chek out R.E,M. sleep states that what psychology calls it.
Everyone has the ability to lucidly dream but rarely is it done. Like everyone dreams normally and might not be aware of it, but people dont lucidly dream normally.. I mean thats why they call it 'lucid dreaming' because its different to normal dreaming.

Anotherwords it is not normal to lucidly dream and so it is a big deal when you do, and when you remember it. REM sleep is when you are dreaming... and during that time is your chance to go lucid if you are aware enough.


jrree57
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 21 2006, 07:24 AM) [snapback]1359070[/snapback]

Yeah but hard to reattain sad.gif

Woke up right now, having a nightmare about a guy laying on top of my sleeping girlfriend and touching her. I went overthere and banged his head into a table a couple of times.

He returns with a freaking long snake in his hands. Suddenly i got a knife in mine. I tell him if he gets closer i'll cut his throat, he dosnt care and hurls the snake in my direction while still having a grib in it's tail.

It bites me in my leg and i awake with a jolt.

No lucidity whatsoever sad.gif

Gotta do some more reality checking i guess.

jrree57
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 21 2006, 07:24 AM) [snapback]1359070[/snapback]

Yeah but hard to reattain sad.gif

Woke up right now, having a nightmare about a guy laying on top of my sleeping girlfriend and touching her. I went overthere and banged his head into a table a couple of times.

He returns with a freaking long snake in his hands. Suddenly i got a knife in mine. I tell him if he gets closer i'll cut his throat, he dosnt care and hurls the snake in my direction while still having a grib in it's tail.

It bites me in my leg and i awake with a jolt.

No lucidity whatsoever sad.gif

Gotta do some more reality checking i guess.


Hi again,
It was a dream about your dream.I saw the whole symbolic message; that is raer in the dream world for certain.
ghostboy83
"lucid dream states give the dreamer a special kind of access to the spiritual world. It is claimed that by practicing prayer or meditation during a lucid dream, the dreamer can gain access to mystical states of awareness that would not be accessible from the waking state. Such practices are sometimes classified as "dream yoga" "
Kazahel
QUOTE(ghostboy83 @ Sep 26 2006, 09:54 AM) [snapback]1365361[/snapback]

"lucid dream states give the dreamer a special kind of access to the spiritual world. It is claimed that by practicing prayer or meditation during a lucid dream, the dreamer can gain access to mystical states of awareness that would not be accessible from the waking state. Such practices are sometimes classified as "dream yoga" "
Yeah I believe in that personally... I used to think about using it to get closer to God but I always got sidetracked kinda. There was one time though where I was floating around fully lucid with my legs crossed like how they do inside like this rainbow coloured bubble. It was a really amazine feeling because it was like I had even more control than usual but at the same time I was super happy, it felt like my happiness was the bubble that I floated around on. It was cool and I remember spinning out that I had my legs crossed like that because its not something I can do without being in discomfort.

Anyway so yeah it was like my mission to find God when I was a kid in lucid dreams.. and lam found me, who is the Father imo.

But anyway I just had a quick question to Ykaedhi Aewee cause Im curious... What colour was the snake?
Dodir_Svile
when you're lucid dreaming, shouldn't you be able to make everything the way you want it? like, for instance, make your parents know they're just in the dream? i mean, you're creating the whole reality, the whole dream, you can do whatever you want, and you can make other people do what you want them, and act differently. hell, you can even make hamsterlike animals with wings, lol...
another question. how do you know you're lucid dreaming? couldn't you be dreaming that you were thinking you were lucid dreaming (complicated, i know.) know what i mean?
i think lucid dreaming is great, never tried it, but my girlfriend has been trying. right now, she's trying to find her hands in the dream, that's supposed to make you realise you're in the dream.
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Kazahel @ Sep 26 2006, 04:23 AM) [snapback]1365398[/snapback]

Yeah I believe in that personally... I used to think about using it to get closer to God but I always got sidetracked kinda. There was one time though where I was floating around fully lucid with my legs crossed like how they do inside like this rainbow coloured bubble. It was a really amazine feeling because it was like I had even more control than usual but at the same time I was super happy, it felt like my happiness was the bubble that I floated around on. It was cool and I remember spinning out that I had my legs crossed like that because its not something I can do without being in discomfort.

Anyway so yeah it was like my mission to find God when I was a kid in lucid dreams.. and lam found me, who is the Father imo.

But anyway I just had a quick question to Ykaedhi Aewee cause Im curious... What colour was the snake?

The snake was yellow and black as far as i remember, any thoughts are welcome.
Mysterious Molecules
QUOTE(Dodir_Svile @ Sep 26 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]1365714[/snapback]

when you're lucid dreaming, shouldn't you be able to make everything the way you want it? like, for instance, make your parents know they're just in the dream? i mean, you're creating the whole reality, the whole dream, you can do whatever you want, and you can make other people do what you want them, and act differently. hell, you can even make hamsterlike animals with wings, lol...
another question. how do you know you're lucid dreaming? couldn't you be dreaming that you were thinking you were lucid dreaming (complicated, i know.) know what i mean?
i think lucid dreaming is great, never tried it, but my girlfriend has been trying. right now, she's trying to find her hands in the dream, that's supposed to make you realise you're in the dream.

Hmm maybe with time i can control the dreams, but no at this state there was absolutely no control of that kind. Gravity even seemed so convincing, but yeah somehow realising gravity was just an illusion made it go away.

I could imagine having full control as you say, but not at this state. The dream is simply too convincing in a way to fully edit it like that. One step at a time, first step would be to actually go lucid again.

And yes, lucid dreaming IS dreaming that you're thinking that you're lucid dreaming. That's the whole paradox of it. And just like real life, the free will is questionable.
"Was it really me who made those decisions, because it sure felt like it and i remember it so, but then again it could all be just an illusion caused by my memory."

Whatever it is, i'm gonna dig deeper and try to find out. It sure feels special, like a small part of conciousness wakes up inside the dream really. I didnt achieve a totally awake state of mind like in reality, where i could remember what i ate for breakfast or what TV show i watched before going to bed etc etc.

What it felt like was a small part of the logical inner voice we use so often, awoke and started doing it's analysis of things like it always does, like "You're awake in the dream, keep saying it keep saying, i'm awake i'm awake" i had to sorta keep using my inner voice like a mantra or everything would slip out of my control. That's what makes it feel so real. The struggle to keeping my concious brain going.
jrree57
QUOTE(ghostboy83 @ Sep 26 2006, 01:54 AM) [snapback]1365361[/snapback]

"lucid dream states give the dreamer a special kind of access to the spiritual world. It is claimed that by practicing prayer or meditation during a lucid dream, the dreamer can gain access to mystical states of awareness that would not be accessible from the waking state. Such practices are sometimes classified as "dream yoga" "




hi ghostboy,

I agree that you can reach states in dreaming that arenot accessible in normal consciousness, but I don't believe they are really metaphysical or mystical states.
Althought , I agree these state must be practiced with disciplines instruction for many years to achieve these state. Do you believe you can just fall a sleep and achieve what a yoga master took his life to achieve. grin2.gif
Kazahel
QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 27 2006, 08:27 AM) [snapback]1366738[/snapback]

Do you believe you can just fall a sleep and achieve what a yoga master took his life to achieve. grin2.gif
I wanna jump in here if I may.

How many years practise do you think it takes? Or is it just a matter of correct thinking in the first place... you know.... so anotherwords do you think some find it easy to master dreaming techniques more than others? Or do you think that one must slave away for a lifetime to gain rewards?

Like does everyone have to spend their whole lifetime to learn certain things? Like is that a rule... ?

jrree57
[place... you know.... so anotherwords do you think some find it easy to master dreaming techniques more than others? Or do you think that one must slave away for a lifetime to gain rewards?

Hi Kazahel,

TO answer question, NO it is possible to achieve knowledge with out devotion to the path,as it is called. Those who know the way -verry- seldom teach or take on a student unless it benenfits financially in some way.

You must ask yourself why, why do I want to do this for my ego or finnacetial gain. then your path will become clear . Their are pleanty of people that can show you what you want to know, you just have to recognize them, but you mat have to pay them.

It's called spiritual materalism , Good day disgust.gif
Kazahel
QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 28 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]1368202[/snapback]

Hi Kazahel,

TO answer question, NO it is possible to achieve knowledge with out devotion to the path,as it is called. Those who know the way -verry- seldom teach or take on a student unless it benenfits financially in some way.
I dont know about that for sure but I dont understand why anyone would wish to sell 'the way'.. like maybe those that wish to sell the way dont actually know the way.. ?
QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 28 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]1368202[/snapback]

You must ask yourself why, why do I want to do this for my ego or finnacetial gain. then your path will become clear . Their are pleanty of people that can show you what you want to know, you just have to recognize them, but you mat have to pay them.

It's called spiritual materalism , Good day disgust.gif
I'm alittle confused hey. Why should I ask myself anything and what do I want to do for either my ego or financial gain.. how do I gain like that? Like I'm alittle past fortune tellers if thats where your coming from.. And why do you think my path is not clear already? Like I wasnt actually really asking anything you know.. I was just after your answer.. ' NO it is possible to achieve knowledge with out devotion to the path,as it is called.' ... Which I'm kinda thankful for.

I guess spiritual materialism is just what some people do to get their money to pay the rent..(fortune tellers).. ? Which I guess is just a part of life. But I believe those who know 'the way' share it fully and freely because its the only thing that can be truly shared with everyone without leaving the other with 'less', through the sharing of the idea of 'the way'. And God is the idea.. The way. happy.gif

Ahh something like that... I'm alittle confused right now though grin2.gif
Mysterious Molecules
Guys, i must say i don't find it very spiritual or anything to do this. I feel very scientific, because it feels a bit like exploiting a little loophole to the subconcious part of our minds. Our CPU.

It's a paradox.

Feed the concious mind with reality-check rituals. Then when we sleep and the concious data is processed, the reality-check data then works abit like a backdoor virus you install, giving you access to the gigantic subconcious library, which basically seems like a big bunch of concious information gathered.
I may find god inthere, but i fear it will be just my interpretation of what god is, i will find.
Kazahel
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 28 2006, 02:24 PM) [snapback]1368423[/snapback]

Guys, i must say i don't find it very spiritual or anything to do this. I feel very scientific, because it feels a bit like exploiting a little loophole to the subconcious part of our minds. Our CPU.

It's a paradox.

Feed the concious mind with reality-check rituals. Then when we sleep and the concious data is processed, the reality-check data then works abit like a backdoor virus you install, giving you access to the gigantic subconcious library, which basically seems like a big bunch of concious information gathered.
I may find god inthere, but i fear it will be just my interpretation of what god is, i will find.
It's kinda both imo. Spiritual and scientific. I guess maybe it depends on what you do during the dream as to if its a spiritual experience or not. Anotherwords some might just be boring dreams while some are more.. spiritual or something.. Like when I dreamt about my friend dying and then a few days later he did in real life etc... to me that was something spiritual and something very real. And that was not a lucid dream..

Also anything that effects the soul can be considered 'spiritual' and imo when you lucid dream that you take a fly into outer space for instance, I personally consider that would kinda effect your soul/your spirit. It tends to leave you very happy the next day etc. And if spirits come under spiritual then what is it when you summon one during a lucid dream? I know its just a dream and you dont know things for sure but it effects your soul and your spirit when you do it, which kinda makes it a spiritual experience to me.

To be honest I'm kinda surprised that you didnt find it a spiritual experience because when I first went fully lucid I was completely blown away by it. It changed me so much by being aware in the spirit world(dream world). My thoughts on finding God in a dream was that we all have the dream(idea) of God in us. It's just like forgotten... its subconcious kinda..

Anyway.. original.gif
Zyden
I really look forward to lucid dreams bit when i realise i'm in one i start to panik trying to stay lucid. Thus my "Lucids" on last seconds. blush.gif
coldethyl
QUOTE(Zyden @ Sep 28 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]1369209[/snapback]

I really look forward to lucid dreams bit when i realise i'm in one i start to panik trying to stay lucid. Thus my "Lucids" on last seconds. blush.gif


Do you keep a dream diary?

Try these things for help with your lucid dreaming:

Achieving and recognizing

Many people report having experienced a lucid dream during their lives, often in childhood. Although lucid dreaming is a learnable skill[12], achieving lucid dreams on a regular basis can be difficult and is uncommon, even with training. Despite this difficulty, techniques have been developed to achieve a lucid dreaming state intentionally.

There are some factors which can affect the ability to experience lucid dreams:

* Some naturals have lucid dreams more often and more easily than others.
* Meditation, and involvement in consciousness focusing activities can strengthen the ability to experience lucid dreams.[13]
* Children seem to have lucid dreams more easily than adults do. (The ability to sleep appears to decrease when people get older.[14])
* Induction techniques can help much in becoming lucid.

The most important aspect in lucid dreaming is to recognize that one is dreaming. Any time that a person recognizes a dream sign, or anything that is out of the ordinary, they should perform a reality test.

Dream recall, the ability to remember one's dreams, is very important to lucid dreamers because it is usually desired that the lucid dreamer be able to remember lucid dreams. Improvement of dream recall is usually the first step people take to learn to have lucid dreams. A common practice used to increase dream recall is to keep a dream journal, or a notebook of dreams. The dream journal should be kept right next to the bed so that dreams can be written down as soon as a person wakes up. This is important because waiting until later in the day to write dreams down will usually cause one to forget most of their content. After waking up, it is often helpful to keep the eyes closed while trying to remember a dream.
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Common techniques
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Reality testing

Reality testing is a common method that people use to determine whether or not they are dreaming. It involves performing an action with results that are difficult to re-create in a dream. By practicing these techniques during waking life, one will eventually dream of performing a reality check—which will usually fail—helping the dreamer realize that they are dreaming. Common reality tests include:

* Read some text, look away, and read it again, or to look at your watch and remember the time, then look away and look back. Observers have found that, in a dream, the text or time will often have changed.[15]
* Flipping a light switch or looking into a mirror. Light switches rarely work properly in dreams, and reflections from a mirror often appear to be blurred, distorted or incorrect.[16]
* Closing one eye and looking at your nose, seeing that it's not there. This was proposed as an experiment on a popular lucid dreaming forum,[17] and there were several anecdotes of success on that forum, but its principle has not been scientifically studied, and this reality check may not be reliable.
* Covering your nose and seeing if you can still breathe through it.[citations needed]
* Pressing the index finger firmly into an area of the body such as the chest or leg. Since matter is usually plastic in the dream state and does not resist change, the finger will usually penetrate the dream body with little resistance and no pain.[citation needed]
* Observe your hand in a dream, often the hand has incorrect number of fingers.[citation needed]
* Pinching oneself — in a dream no pain may be felt, though in many situations, lucid dreamers have observed that they do experience realistic sensation of being pinched.[citation needed]
* Observing the face of another character in a dream -- often their face will be blurry or unclear.[citation needed]

Another form of reality testing involves identifying one's dream signs, clues that one is dreaming. Dream signs are often categorized as follows:

* Action — The dreamer, another dream character, or a thing does something unusual or impossible in waking life, such as photos in a magazine or newspaper becoming 3-dimensional with full movement.
* Context — The place or situation in the dream is strange.
* Form — The dreamer, another character, or a thing changes shape, or is oddly formed or transforms; this may include the presence of unusual clothing or hair, or a third person view of the dreamer.
* Awareness — A peculiar thought, a strong emotion, an unusual sensation, or altered perceptions. In some cases when moving one's head from side to side, one may notice a strange stuttering or 'strobing' of the image.
* Cohesion — Sometimes the dreamer may seem to "Teleport" to a completely different location in a dream, with no transition whatsoever.

Though occurrences like these may seem out of place in waking life, they may seem perfectly normal to a dreaming mind and learning to pick up on these dream signs will help in recognizing that one is dreaming.
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Mnemonic induction of lucid dreams (MILD)

The mnemonic induction of lucid dreams is a common technique used to induce a lucid dream at will by setting an intention, while falling asleep, to remember to recognize that one is dreaming, or to remember to look for dream signs. Because it is easy to master (almost everyone sets intentions frequently), it is ideal for those who have never practiced lucid dreaming induction techniques before.

The MILD technique was developed by Stephen LaBerge, and is described fully in his book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.
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Wake-back-to-bed (WBTB)

The wake-back-to-bed technique is often the easiest way to induce a lucid dream. The method involves going to sleep tired and waking up five hours later. Then, focusing all thoughts on lucid dreaming, staying awake for an hour and going back to sleep. The odds of having a lucid dream are then much higher. This is because the REM cycles get longer as the night goes on, and this technique takes advantage of the best REM cycle of the night. Because this REM cycle is longer and deeper, gaining lucidity during this time may result in a more vivid and lengthy lucid dream.[18] This may also offer an explanation as to why many people claim to have more memorable dreams in the early morning hours before they wake up for the day. However, the explanation that people may simply recall a dream more easily if they directly wake up from it has also been suggested.
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Wake-initiated lucid dream (WILD)

The wake-initiated lucid dream "occurs when the sleeper enters REM sleep with unbroken self-awareness directly from the waking state".[19] The key to this technique is recognizing the hypnagogic stage, which is within the border of being awake and being asleep. If a person is successful in staying aware while this stage occurs, they will eventually enter the dream state while being fully aware that it is a dream. Because one does not have to recognize a cue in order to induce a lucid dream using this technique, it tends to be more reliable than other techniques. There are key times at which this technique is best used; while success at night after being awake for a long time is very difficult, it is relatively easy after being awake for 15 or so minutes and in the afternoon during a nap. Users of this technique often count, envision themselves climbing or descending stairs, chanting to themselves, controlling their breathing, concentrating on relaxing their body from their toes to their head, allowing images to flow through their "mind's eye" and envisioning themselves jumping into the image, or any various form of concentration to keep their mind awake, while still being calm enough to let their body sleep. During the actual transition into the dreamstate, one is likely to experience sleep paralysis, including rapid vibrations.[20]Also there is frequently a sensation of falling rapidly or dropping through the bed as one enters the dreamstate or the sensation of entering a dark black room from which one can induce any dream scenario of one's choosing, simply by concentrating on it. The key to being sucessful is not to panic, especially during the transition which can be quite sudden.
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Cycle adjustment technique (CAT)

The cycle adjustment technique, developed by Daniel Love[21], is an effective way to induce lucid dreaming. It involves adjusting one's sleep cycle to encourage awareness during the latter part of the sleep. First, the person wakes up 90 minutes before normal wake time until their sleep cycle begins to adjust (Love suggests at least a week for this stage). During this 90 minute period regular reality tests are performed. After this initial period is complete, the normal wake times and early wake times alternate daily. On the days with the normal wake times, the body is ready to wake up and perform reality tests yet remains asleep and dreaming. These sleep cycle adjustments should create favourable psychological and biological conditions for lucidity.
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Don Juan's technique

This technique is the one endorsed by Carlos Castaneda's guide, Don Juan, in the book Journey to Ixtlan. Before going to sleep one must look at one's hands and say to oneself: "Later, when I am dreaming, I will look at my hands and realise that I am dreaming." While dreaming, one must look at one's hands, then look around and repeat the procedure throughout the dream.[22][23]

See also: The Art of Dreaming (a book by Castaneda)



Induction devices

Lucid dream induction is possible by the use of a physical device. The general principle works by taking advantage of the natural phenomenon of incorporating external stimuli into one's dreams. Usually a device is worn while sleeping that can detect when the sleeper enters a REM phase and triggers a noise and/or flashing lights with the goal of these stimuli being incorporated into the dreamer's dream. For example flashing lights might be translated to a car's headlights in a dream. A well known dream induction device is the Nova Dreamer [24]; however, as of 2006, the device is no longer manufactured.

Other associated phenomena
REM Sleep. EEG highlighted by red box. Eye movements highlighted by red line.
Enlarge
REM Sleep. EEG highlighted by red box. Eye movements highlighted by red line.

* Rapid eye movement (REM) and communication during sleep: during dreaming sleep the eyes move rapidly. Scientific research in the 1950s found that these eye movements correspond to the direction in which the dreamer is "looking" in his/her dreamscape; extraordinarily, this apparently enabled trained lucid dreamers to communicate the content of their dreams as they were happening to researchers by using eye movement signals. This research produced various results, such as that events in dreams take place in real time rather than going by in a flash.
* False awakenings: In a false awakening, one suddenly dreams of having been awakened. Commonly in a false awakening the room is identical to the room that the person fell asleep in, with several small subtle differences. If the person was lucid, he/she often believes that he/she is no longer dreaming, and may start exiting their room etc. Since the person is actually still dreaming, this is called a "false awakening". This is often a nemesis in the art of lucid dreaming because it usually causes people to give up their awareness of being in a dream, but it can also cause someone to become lucid if the person does a reality check whenever he/she awakens. People who keep a dream journal and write down their dreams upon awakening sometimes report having to write down the same dream multiple times because of this phenomenon.
* Sleep paralysis: During REM sleep the body is paralyzed by a mechanism in the brain, because otherwise the movements which occur in the dream would actually cause the body to move. However, it is possible for this mechanism to be triggered before, during, or after normal sleep while the brain awakens. This can lead to a state where a person is lying in his or her bed and he or she feels frozen. Hypnagogic hallucinations may occur in this state, especially auditory ones. People also generally report feeling a crushing sensation on their chest[25] (possibly because they try to consciously control their breathing). People trying to lucid dream sometimes try to trigger this state, or accidentally trigger this state, while using the WILD technique to enter a lucid dream directly when falling asleep.

Things to do

Some general ideas:

* Real-life rehearsal: Since the mental and physical effects of lucid dreaming are almost indistinguishable from real-life, dreamers can rehearse various things (such as stage performances, debates/arguments, soccer moves, etc.) in a lucid dream and readily apply that to real-life. It is possible to essentially repeat the events of a lucid dream as many times as the dreamer desires. As such, the dreamer can explore the effects of any course of action within that dream and/or refine their course of action to get a desired effect without resorting to directly willing the desired effect to happen.
* Look for artistic ideas.
* Spiritual practice: Some religions claim that lucid dream states give the dreamer a special kind of access to the spiritual world. It is claimed that by practicing prayer or meditation during a lucid dream, the dreamer can gain access to mystical states of awareness that would not be accessible from the waking state.[citation needed] Such practices are sometimes classified as "dream yoga".
* Experiment: Without restrictions from physics or society, one can do anything one desires when in a lucid dream. A few popular activities include flying, underwater exploration, having superhuman powers, sexual acts, drug use, unconventional, odd, or extreme forms of violence, and experimentation with extra limbs or otherwise modifying one's body.
* Face fears: Because pain does not exist in lucid dreaming, some dreamers use the dream state to face fears such as claustrophobia and acrophobia. Since one can control the interactions one has during the dream, facing fears in the lucid dream state can help manage fears in waking life.
* Practice talking to people: Some people use the experience of lucid dreaming to practice a conversation they probably wouldn't otherwise have. Some people believe that by talking to dream characters, they can gain a better understanding of the people they are talking to and of their own sub-conscious.
* Practice asking your self if you are awake or if you are sleeping. Ask your self this phrase 10 to 15 times a day: "Am I wake or am I asleep? Is this a dream or is this reality?" Asking your self this when you are awake will have an impact on you asking this in your dream. Once you ask it in your dream, you will realize you are dreaming and you will become lucid.

Source
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Hope this helps some!
Zyden
wow w00t.gif

Thanks!!!
coldethyl
No problem.

I'm not as evil as everyone thinks. yes.gif
Zyden
LOL,

Ya got that right!
Lady_Anvilabeel
wow what a wealth of info thanks ethyl!
jrree57

Hi its me again,
First I want to address your question? A real teacher does not charge, but do you know why? Ans.--dream interpretation has already made him/her spiritually wealthy.Why do people charge grin2.gif ask you local psychicatrist ,if you go to one it 50 to 100 dollars an hour.
ohmy.gif You said something porfound ,belive it or not, most psychiatrist donot know the way.

That Why Karl Jung, the great dream interpreter said " I'm glad I'm Karl Jung and not a Jungian".

If dreams are your path seek a teacher. When the student is ready the teacher will appear, it happens, it happen to me. So if you believe in god like you claim :he is arround you close somewhere. Your first find him or may be your just inguiriing about dream and lucid dreaming. grin2.gif
jrree57
QUOTE(Ykaedhi Aewee @ Sep 28 2006, 06:24 AM) [snapback]1368423[/snapback]

Guys, i must say i don't find it very spiritual or anything to do this. I feel very scientific, because it feels a bit like exploiting a little loophole to the subconcious part of our minds. Our CPU.

It's a paradox.

Feed the concious mind with reality-check rituals. Then when we sleep and the concious data is processed, the reality-check data then works abit like a backdoor virus you install, giving you access to the gigantic subconcious library, which basically seems like a big bunch of concious information gathered.
I may find god inthere, but i fear it will be just my interpretation of what god is, i will find.


Hi Ykaedhi,

You are correct in your assumptions, him /her is in thier, I'm speakinking of the Lord of course. Keep looking and trying in your dream , even pray if you have to and maybe you will get lucky, like I did grin2.gif
Mysterious Molecules
Hehe i don't believe in god, but i do believe that there is more depth, width or height to the world as we percieve it right now.

Think of how long it would take an ants brain to fully understand the human world and then think how long it could take us to understand what is out of our dimensions. We might aswell be nice and enjoy the ride.
Kazahel
QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 29 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]1369786[/snapback]

Hi its me again,
First I want to address your question? A real teacher does not charge, but do you know why? Ans.--dream interpretation has already made him/her spiritually wealthy.Why do people charge grin2.gif ask you local psychicatrist ,if you go to one it 50 to 100 dollars an hour.
ohmy.gif You said something porfound ,belive it or not, most psychiatrist donot know the way.
For starters I didnt ask you a question. And I know why a real teacher does not charge, because its in the sharing.. I just dont understand where you are coming from with all this hey.. Like do you think I'm trying to sell something or what.. because I'm confused on why we are even talking about this at all. And if your wondering or just to kinda keep your brush on your paper alittle.. I dont know the local psychiatrist... I've talked with one once though when I was getting off heroin, and he told me I was fine and most lucid. happy.gif Basically I think I suffer from ptsd but thats it.. so the vultures know.

QUOTE(jrree57 @ Sep 29 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]1369786[/snapback]

If dreams are your path seek a teacher. When the student is ready the teacher will appear, it happens, it happen to me. So if you believe in god like you claim :he is arround you close somewhere. Your first find him or may be your just inguiriing about dream and lucid dreaming. grin2.gif
Oh thanks for the info.. I've think I've been doing the teacher/student thingy maybe for awhile... I've been lucid dreaming for around 13yrs now and my guides teach as they come up. Thats why I run.. And thats why I talk about lam. wink2.gif But anyway can you reword that last line because I dont understand it. What did you mean by this?
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