I was wondering what opinions you all may have upon the subject of the bible. Did God write the bible? Did prophets write the bible? Maybe even ancient priests? The bible has been recopied and translated into many different languages, but who wrote the original? Is there a "bible code" hidden within the text with numerical patterns or such. Or is it mere coincidence.

This I leave for you all to ponder with this contreversial topic of debate.

The Bible was wrote by the prophets of Jesus,..Then the book's where taken and added or delited by the church,...Is there a code in the bible i don't think so it's insane have you seen how they find those word's....They also have proven you can take any large book and do the same.....

The bible was wrote by man for men, God didn't leave us a copy....We wrote it by the teaching's of Jesus Christ......

But, there still lies the question. Who wrote the original Bible?
If it was a common man why not take credit for it? I'm not saying I believe in God or anything, but what about the old testament.. the bible isn't limited to the New testament you see.

But this is a debate after all.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...

II Timothy 3:16 KJB

Was written by special men selected by God by the inspiration of God. I wouldn't doubt that the possibility of a code exist. God is able to do anything. It is the interpretation by man I question.

I would have to agree i had a friend who was in the catholic church and was going to be a preist ( becaus ehis parents wanted him to be but he droped out ) and he knows some of the secrects of the catholics.... and stuff... yes 12 men in a room sat down and wrote how they thought the bible should be translated and yes there were books left out and things were changed. now depending on what your view is... some people say that the bible is just merely... the opinons of the prophets which in terms would basicly mean the bible isnt directly from God. So all in all the bible we have now man wrote it

Yes, the bible we have now was obviosuly written by man and is and subject to interpretation. But, was there an "original" bible, or was it just compiled together by a bunch of prophets claiming to write down the things "God" said?

No one truly knows who wrote the bible, but we have no evidence that it was something other than a human being. We can safely assume(in my opinion) that it was not made by a God due to the illogical stories and mistakes. I also don't expect such writing from a "good" God.

As for the bible codes, I find them very interesting. I do not have enough knowledge to debate about this, but in my opinion, I think there is some valid points that people who support the code make.

My theory is that the bible is like hearsay. Like Rashamon, when everyone saw things differently

The first few books of the Bible were written by Moses. Some were written by Desciples, and some books have no known author.

What exactly is your point?

It was written by politicians for political gain.

Thats my opinion anyway. For instance they used that book to justify wars and the like. This i think is proof that it was designed by men.

Interesting idea, Atlantisrises, that it was created for political gain, but then why does it still survive today, and why are people so attached to it's teachings?

Because it was so deeply ingrained into our society. Being in a time when the priesthood run nations it was taught as truth and grew into the truth. Eventually it was ingrained with to much tradition etc to get rid of it.

Plus it was brought up again and again for political gain.\


Constantine, King James, many others all used the bible to strengthen their grip on their people.

Humanly speaking, the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors. They lived in different times and wrote to different people for different reasons. Christians believe the Bible was inspired by God, who guided the writers behind the scenes. The Christian believes in a dual authorship of the Bible - not written solely by either man or God, but a combination of both.

Whether this is so or not is most definitely up for debate. Christians take it on Faith that it is the word of God as well as of man, while everyone else will say it's the words of just man.

Hope that helps

~ PA

In the New Testiment many of the Gospels (Luke, Mark, John, Mathew) were at least partly written during the lifetime of those aposles. Many of the books of the old testiment are letters sent to various cities (Corinth, Thesselonia, Rome, etc...). In many bibles there is a short blurb of who sent what letter and where at the start of that book.

The books of the Old Testiment was written at different times and many have no recorded author.

So really there is not "Original Bible" with one author, no more then there is an "Original Encyclopedia" with one author.

The bible was obviously written by man all you have to do is read it to realize this. The basic premise of any works of religion appears to be someone was trying to teach the people how to get along together, I think whoever told us these things just wanted us to love one another not kill people who believe different than we do. Anything else is just made up garbage,(my opinion only) as far as the bible code goes that is just the silliest thing I have ever heard of, even after they explain how they are doing it. You just have to shake your head and say who came up with this ridiculous stuff, you can do that with any book, not only that they are working off of a third or fourth translation of the actual texts that weren't put together in the order they were even written, so anything you find from that is purely coincidence.

So, basicly there once was a man who wrote down: 'Once there was a man called Jezus.' 10 years later, someone would say, hey this doesn't looks finished, and wrote: 'Once there was a man called Jesus, he was born in Jeruzalem.' 5 years later someone else: 'Once there was a man called Jezus, son of God. He was born in Jeruzalem. His mothers name was Mary.' and 5 years later again someone else: 'Once there was a man called Jesus Christ, son of God. He was born in Jeruzalem.' No wait, Jesus son of God... So he must also be a God. And God's don't get born. Hmm... 'son of God. God came down on a flying chariot and impregnated Mary.' and so on and so on. Until the church also decided that some things should be altert or be left out. 'Once there was a man called Jesus, he was the son of God. God came down on a flying chariot' Ok, stop right there! That's just rediculous! Pfff on a flying chariot lol! 'son of God and Mary. Mary who was a virgin learned from the angel Gabriel that she would conceive Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.' There you go, a bit different but more acceptable.

I know this is very blown out of proportion but did it happend like this? I mean don't look at the story, obviously just made this up But could the storyline be altered like that?

Absolutely. And it is still going on today. Heck, how many people believe that when a good person dies they turn into angels and go out to help people in the world?

The gospels were written anywhere from 70 to 100 years after his supposed execution.

The stories in the bible are stories that from the beginning where spread from mouth to mouth until someone wrote them down... There is not one person who wrote the bible. The bible contains many books and some of them have the name of the writor. But as it has been said in the topic, in the end some books were left behind and others were published in the bible... Thats what you learn in litterature history.

Learn some literature history: 12 Apostles

Actually there was no "Bible" until King James. Before that there were 'letters' - 'historical records' and such that were kept - the Old Test. is a compilation of the Historical Records of God's dealing with the Children of Isreal.

The New Test. is a compliation of the Gospels, Historical (Acts) and the Letters of Paul, James, John, Peter, etc.

They were all prayed about and looked at for historical accuracy - and the basic truths taught through out both Old and New and such. It wasn't 'random' as some would like us to believe.

This is an assignment I gave some "skeptics" that promoted this.

Take the Bible - any book you wish and copy it. Hand, computer, either one. Then watch and observe how really careful you are or are not in doing this. It proved the point that, yes there is extreme care taken, even with skeptics. The "error factor" was diminished quite quickly in the skeptics that went through this 'test'.

Now another interesting point is the statistical odds of the Prophecies both in the OLD and NEW Test. some written centuries before the event happened - exactly as stated. Even the crusifixion of Jesus, Centuries before Crusifixion was even practiced. Now for man to do that and "fix" that to happen - that takes a whole lot more faith than in a God, if you think about it.

If you put this all together - God working through some very unique individuals that as some would say, "had a heart towards God and thus God was able to work and speak through them.." IMO

J -

Septuagint

Vulgate/Others

Thanks!

King James is the trusted bible. Original copy. Translated scprits by schollars and philosophers, least tampered with. Also, the reading ability is excellent for most people, apt for I.

However, to answer the question:

The answer is neither simple nor straightforward. This subject is complicated even for most. If you put 5 philosophers and theorists together, your liable to get 9 theories.

Who Wrote It?

I suppose I should be greatful that King James was not declared God.

I wrote it as a practical joke please dont follow or take any of it seriosly....o did every one think it was real? LOLOLOL

umunst those forty were kings,shepards, fishermen, civil servants, priests, at least one general, a physician and all made the same claim: that they were writing not their own thoughts, but God's.

the apostle Paul wrote, in 2Timothy 3:16,17
16}"All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproof, correction,for instruction in rightousness 17} that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped
for every good work.

In harmony with the claim that it is God's , not man's, the Bible answers questions that only God can answer. It explains, for example, why human governments have not been able to bring lasting peace , how humans can find the deepest satisfaction in life , and what the future holds for the earth and mankind upon it. Now as a thinking person , you must
have wondered about these and similiar questions.

If you studied the history of the bible itself, you will find that it took all in all 3000 from starting of the first scriptures to the first century , that alone is worth considering that the possibility of Gods authoruitive hand has a role in this being from the orgin of a supernatural being,... It is the number one best seller of all time till this very day,.. and many have lost their lives in the process of it being published in that three thousand years is a long time for one book to be disclosed as a mans writings and not gods inspiration.

so questions and facts and miraculous historicial events are enough to at least pick it up with a open mind to pray for understanding and then read it.
its all between you and god anyway,.. look into many different bibles and they are pretty much the same some are eaiser to understand being that they have a concordance on the very page .

The bible as I recall from sunday school was written by prophets of God, only one chapter written by God him/herself. Which is funny because nowadays those prophets would be given lithium and permanent residence in looneybin USA.




*edit because I said book instead of chapter... sorry.

Yet in the bible slavery and the subordination are mentioned and not thought of as "bad". Surely interpretation of the "prophets" were key here. As for the hypothesis of compiled collections of people who wrote the bible, you make a logical point and I can see that. But who did "God" speak to first, and wrote would have written the first section or book of the Old Testament. Or did someone create the concept of God for all the unexplained things in the world and the conept caught on?

Considering that there is now archeological records among other things that go again'st it. I am going to say no one person wrote it due to how diverse the stories are. Noah's Ark was stolen from a Sumerian story which pre-dates the old testament. Like wise with Adam and Eve as well. It has been discovered that Moses never existed during the said time period and no jewish slave were used in the construction of the pyramids as well. I think it was written as collarbative fiction by a ruler and his men at some point to scare his people into summision.

It could, but by going on the 3000+ copies of ancient manuscripts of the Bible, there is no evidence of such wild addition. A few unscrupulous individuals have at times attempted to add or delete sections, but the massive saturation of ancient texts ensures that any such addition is easily spotted (when 2499 copies say one thing, and 1 copy says something else, it's pretty easy to see which one is correct).

I think you mean written in 70-100 AD? Mark was written in 70AD (many conservative Christian groups will say 50AD, but 70 seems more likely). Mark was thus written 35-40 years after Jesus' "supposed execution". Since Mark (or at least the writer of the letter attributed to mark) claims to have been a "young boy" following Jesus, he could conceivably be only 50 years old when it was written.

This hails back to what I wrote in my original post about dual authorship of the Bible. One author (the human author) wrote to specific people, for a specific purpose, at a specific time. The other author (God) spoke to a wider audience, outside of the cultural society of the time. That's what Christians believe, at least.

ON slavery though, it should be noted that slavery in the Bible is not the slavery that most people today think of when they think of blacks being subjugated by the white man for their own gain. Slaves often held positions of power and served out of choice not out of force. In the Old Testament, there were even laws in place that ensured people could not be life-long slaves. Furthermore, Christians are described as slaves to Christ, which has some interesting ramifications, for a slave as we know them today had no rights and were basically sub-human second-class citizens. Yet Christians are definitely not so. So one must consider the historical understanding of the term "slave".

Anyway, that's my say done

~ PA

I agree. The bible is a compilation of accounts from many different people over the course of centuries. This would explain why the Bible seems to contradict itself sometimes. So really, knowing the first person who compiled all the pieces to the Bible we now know today, that's another story. I'm sure it can be re-compiled as well. The Bible still doesn't contain all known written accounts either. New litterature has been discovered since.

Ok - I've asked this before (not on this group) and was left with, where I could go, but that wasn't the answer to my question.

Where does the Bible Contradict itself? (specifically please...)

Thanks..

PS - I hope this question will stay in the area of friendly.

Good luck Jj, but knowing this place that's probably unlikely. As for actual contradictions, there are a few minor clerical mistakes between Chronicles and Samuel (for example, one will say 8000 and the other 800, or one might say 7400 and the other 7500). Besides those, there are very few that hold up to contextual examination, and none (that I've found, at least) that contradict the core beliefs of Christianity.

I know that's just my opinion, but it's what I'll stick to Others are free to hold a different view if that's what the believe......

edit: to fix Bible comment (typed the wrong book in by mistake ).

Hey - when you have time - I know and understand people have lives outside of the front of their computer screen - could you get me those ref. on the number issues... ??

Thanks! J -

PS - PA, I find reading your post most refreshing and your laid back manners and humor. I look forward to getting to know you on this board as the future unfolds.

pa you need to read THIS

Haha, no worries, We'll keep the conversation clean and fruitful. I found a site which lists several:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html

It would only make sense the Bible is a compilation of authors, since the contradictories come from one book to another.

No worries Jj (I originally gave you the wrong book reference. My mistake, it was Chronicles and Samuel/Kings that had these differences).

1 Kings 5:16 refers to 3,300 men, while 2 Chronicles 2:18 says of the same event that there were 3,600.

2 Kings 24:8 states that Jehoiachin was 18 when he became king. 2 Chronicles states he was only 8. Furthermore, 2 Kings says he reigned for three months, while 2 Chronicles says three months and ten days.

1 Kings 4:26 shows there were 40,000 horse stalls for Solomon's chariots, while 2 Chronicles 9:25 said there were 4,000.

2 Samuel 10:18 shows that David and his men destroyed 700 chariots and 40,000 horsemen. 1 Chronicles 19:18 gives 7000 chariots and 40,000 footsoldiers (not horsemen, like 2 Samuel).

There are quite a few more. I wonder if two different modern history text books provide any more accurate numbers though (how many died at Pearl Harbour, how many were killed at Hiroshima, how many kids joined the Hitler Youth, just a few examples). Unless they were simple clerical errors. It's possible.....

Thanks Jj, hope you enjoy it here

Ok, read it. The hunt for the missed saviour, fabricating evidence, filling in the blanks.

Did you know in my year-11 high school ancient history class, I and a friend made a compelling case for the non-existence of Cleopatra, that she was in fact a hoax created to take the political fall for mistakes made by Caesar.

Let's just say when i read jesusneverexisted.com I get a feeling of de ja vu.....

But "modern history text books" are not the WORD OF GOD......

Errors in the Bible?

Book of John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

^^Words from the Bible^^

Ok, curious question - would it be "ok" and ya (for me anyways) "fun" to dialog on some of these "errors" that people see and find??

I know I would enjoy it - but only if it stays in the realm of dialog and exchange of thoughts, ideas and the likes. I really enjoy good dialogs and ya even debates.

Yes I know that there will be the 'few' that will allow their emotions to get the better of them, it happens.

Also note: I do NOT claim to know everything, but I do know some things. I do NOT claim to understand everything, but I do understand some thing.

J -

Probably the oldest version of a "Bible Story" is the Sumerian tale of Adape and the Dragon, which tells of a talking dragon who guards a sacred tree in a beautiful garden, and on behalf of the high God who was his master, offered eternal life to a man named Adape. If this sounds vaguely familiar, it should, for after retelling this story from their Mesopotamian homeland for over 1000 years as an oral tradition, the the illiterate Hebrew shepherds garbled things a bit and the "good" dragon became the imaginary devil Christian's have believed in evers since, (even though it was all a mistake).

Okay that takes care of the first book, so how about the last? Well......the war in heaven and the casting of the tied up red dragon into the abyss, was plagiarized by John of Patmos from a much older Zoroastrian Persian story in which Ahura Mazda, binds the evil dragon Ahriman, and casts him into the abyss where he is imprsioned for centuries, but later escapes and is finally cast into a lake of fiery molten metal. If this sounds familiar, it is because John took the Persian fairyland and just changed the names of the Angel and Dragon. So the first and most important book of the Bible was written by Pagan Sumerians whose God would eventually become the Hebrew's God, and the last book was taken out of a Pagan Persian fairytale. So neither of the two most important books of the Bible were written by cultures who had know idea about the God of Israel or Jesus. Oops, I take that back..... the Persians who wrote the original Revelation story claim that the God of the Bible is an evil dragon named Zohac........ so I'm just not sure if that should lend greater or lesser authenticity to THEIR book of Revelation copied by John of Patmos.

Ok - this one is pretty easy to answer and the key for the "missing 300" is found in one simple little phrase:

1 Kings 5:14 - (The 3300 body count.)
"... Adoniram was in charge of the forced labor...."

Now ask your self - would/could one man deal with 'forced labor' alone or was there, oh say - 300 men under him to help with the forced laborer?

J -

I believe costantine peiced the bible together in an effort to control the new christian movement that was destroying his empire.it takes peices from alot of older religions and ads them so that other people who were not christian could be converted easier.look at the christian hollidays then look up hollidays from other types of religion.

I think the(Christian)Bible(a majority anyway)was practically 'rewritten' by man to conTROL man.
I often wonder exactally how much of the 'original texts' were edited, added on to and or even completely removed by the early Christian Hiearchy & Catholic Church over the centuries & or millennia.
I believe(and it's only my ps belief only) that the 'original' texts in the bible 's' were written for the *soul purpose as a 'guide only' not as a 'instruction manual' to be taken literally.

We all know & are born with the knowledge to understand the diffrence between right & wrong good & bad and each of us have our own path to follow in life for the better not the worst for ourselves and the for rest of mankind.
As for the original author 's',...............your guess is as good as mine.

It's quite possible that the original bible 's' started off as ''Esoteric Teachings'' by the 'True Ancients',...long(BC) to be passed down in history by a select few for the 'benefit of all mankind' and somehow the texts had been suppressed and or severely corrupted & some possibily even destroyed over time as one of many of claims made by 'Manly.P.Hall' in his book ''The Secret Teachings Of All Ages''(1928), who devoted almost his entire life studying ancient manuscripts and documents.

Just my thoughts. *sole

God Speed.

=Rebel=

I'm glad there is so much feedback on this topic. I am enjoying reading all of your posts. Keep up the good work.

Quotations by learned men from the 19th century:
* "[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. 1,2
* "There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." Rev. Alexander Campbell
* "The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina
* "The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of Negro suffrage." A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
* "The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." United States Senator James Henry Hammond. 3

Quotation from the 21st century:
* "If we apply sola scriptura to slavery, I'm afraid the abolitionists are on relatively weak ground. Nowhere is slavery in the Bible lambasted as an oppressive and evil institution: Vaughn Roste, United Church of Canada staff.

Overview:
The quotation by Jefferson Davis, listed above, reflected the beliefs of many Americans in the 19th century. Slavery was seen as having been "sanctioned in the Bible." They argued that:
* Biblical passages recognized, controlled, and regulated the practice.
* The Bible permitted owners to beat their slaves severely, even to the point of killing them. However, as long as the slave lingered longer than 24 hours before dying of the abuse, the owner was not regarded as having committed a crime, because -- after all -- the slave was his property. 4
* Paul had every opportunity to write in one of his Epistles that human slavery -- the owning of one person as a piece of property by another -- is profoundly evil. His letter to Philemon would have been an ideal opportunity to vilify slavery. But he wrote not one word of criticism.
* Jesus could have condemned the practice. He might have done so. But there is no record of him having said anything negative about the institution.

Eventually, the abolitionists gained sufficient power to eradicate slavery in most areas of the world by the end of the 19th century. Slavery was eventually recognized as an extreme evil. But this paradigm shift in understanding came at a cost. Christians wondered why the Bible was so supportive of such an immoral practice. They questioned whether the Bible was entirely reliable. Perhaps there were other practices that it accepted as normal which were profoundly evil -- like genocide, torturing prisoners, raping female prisoners of war, executing religious minorities, burning some hookers alive, etc. The innocent faith that Christians had in "the Good Book" was lost -- never to be fully regained.
religioustolerance.org


The Bible Slavery Quiz




Hey Psyko here is something for you: The Gospel Story Quiz

Hahaha, I took this quiz twice with all alternative answers, and I had zeros both times! That's a nicely rigged quiz with contradicting accounts! If anything, this just rectifies my point of contradictories between authors!

That was the point of my giving it to you