I got to talking with a friend of mine about dragons and a thought just crossed my mind.

for ages one of the biggest debates about the existance of dragons is that there's no proof, no bones.

next is the question, how could such large, presumably heavy bodies, be lifted from the ground by mere wing power.

the answer to both of these questions could possibly be found in sharks.

yes, you read right, sharks.

sharks do not have bones except their teeth. Their body structure is made of cartelege. As we know, it deteriorates upon death with the rest of the body, and far quicker than bone. To some point, it's also lighter and therefore may answer how the dragon was able to get into the air. If it's entire support structure was cartelege would it not be lighter? possibly light enough to gift lift from maybe a twelve or fourteen foot wing span?

Why, or why wouldn't this idea be plosible? i'm still working on the how they could have breathed fire, but to be honest if they were real, i'm not so sure it was fire. but that's for a different post.

Its hard to say about dragons, but you did bring a good point though...

Interesting Acenas, good theory....

If you've seen "Reign of Fire", the "Fire" was made by two seperate glands in the mouth secreting seperate chemicals creating natural napalm...but that was just a movie. It's a good idea on how IF the existed, (but they didn't in my opinion) they could breathe fire.

I could think of a few different ways breath weapons could be possible.

Fire breathing--- Give this creature an acid gland much like a snake's or spider's venom glands. Also it would have to have very special saliva glads in the mouth such as some kind thick mucus oil for fireproofing so it wouldn't burn it's mouth. Some acids are VERY combustable when the have contact with water. And what is mixed in with any creatures breath? Yup, thats right water vapor!! MMMMM TOASTIE!!!

Lightning Breath--- This wouldn't be too difficult to figure out either. Everyone knows how lighting works. Simply have a gland in the through that is cold. The warm moist air exhaled from the lungs going accross a much colder area. Throw in another sack in the throught that would supply the other components for lightning and BLAMO!!

Ice breath--- Very similar to the lightning breath. But have only one VERY cold gland. When the creature exhales water vapor is also present of coarce, just like every other living creature. ARCTIC!!!!


Dragon's flight----
This here is also very simple. Dragons would have to have a very wide wing span naturally. If you look at birds, insects, and ancient avian reptiles you generally see that the wing span is twice that of the bodies lenght including tails. The pteradon had a monsterous 40ft wing span. Now also looking at other birds and many carnivorous dinosaurs, such as the entire raptor family beginning to end. These animals had very lightly constructed skeletons, full of air sacks and hollows. Now having the Utahraptor and Megaraptor being as big as the were 20 feet +, they were lighter than many others of similar size only about a ton (2k lbs). Most others of equal size were much heavier. Sometimes 4 to 5 times heavier such as Alliosaur, Triceratops, Iguanadon, Anklyosaur, and Stegosaur. Now look back at the raptor family. They were not heavy, VERY strong, and rediculously fast. In essence they were one of the links in the chain of bird evolution. One of the last of the raptors was reptile/bird dyhybrid named the Eoraptor. It's forearms were looking more like wings instead of arms, but still had fingers and claws.
Dragons were always portrayed and warm blooded creatures like birds and dinosaurs. This would be essential for flight. How many cold blooded animals can you think of that fly? Thats right, none! Lets stretch a Megaraptor to double it's size and throw some wings on him. What would you have? Yup! A dragon!! This dragon would be about 50ft long with a 100ft wingspan and weigh about 2 to 2 1/2 tons. Thats only 4000-5000lbs.... Not too hard to immagine huh? He would be strong and light enough to fly VERY easily.

And keep those sicle killing claws on their big toes!! He would look absolutly NASTY and VICIOUS!!!! Not to mension a very handsome creature!

Thats a good theory, its also a very good comparison on paper. Im sure there was a stage when dinosaurs were getting lighter bones and becoming more "bird" like and slowly taking to the air. Dragons are supposebly to be "reptile" like, so maybe these creatures are plausible in having extra light bone structure like modern birds of flight. Maybe a few of these dinosaurs (dragons) survived the great extinction?

The fire thing sounds really really farfetched, but nature somehow finds ways to produce volatile liquids like venom in the oral area. Whether dragons actually spat flames just doesnt sound plausible. But maybe a venom that was very acidic that burned like fire when it touched the skin?

I personally dont think the dragon (if its real) survived the extinction, but could be a possiblity when you think about a reptile like creature that had some sought of flight?

Good theory though Acenaspheru! Youve got me thinking

One problem, dragons were in the medieval era, not the Prehistoric era...

Were did dragons first started their first appearance?...

Jester

Dragons made their very first appearance in ancient Babalon, the first human civilization (older than Egypt). Her Name was Tiamat. Some would say she had either 1 head, 5 heads or 7 heads. She was slain by another God named Marduk. Her eyes became the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Her bones, teeth and claws became the rocks and mountains. Her Blood became water in all the seas, oceans, and rivers. Her skin became the forrests, and grass lands.

Ok?...

The first sentence was ok, but I'm understanding that the creator of the planet is a god or goddess now...

So, your sorta saying dragons are more like a guardian of the planet or immortal?...

Some dragons yes. But Tiamat became Earth. This is the Babalonian creation myth. Its said that Tiamat came from another world called Nebu, Nebaru, something like that......

In some parts of the world there is a sound eminating from Earth. No scientists or anyone can figure out the origin at all. Some believe its Tiamat calling to Laviathan or Behemoth on her world. Or the other way around........ Its something like 20 octive below C sharp. Some people can hear it and some can't. I am one person that can. I know a few others that can hear it. The sound itself sounds like a distant diesel truck ideling.

Of course scientists can't figure out the origin, scientists don't have that technology yet...

Can you tell me what is 20 octive below C sharp?...

I have never heard Babalonian before, what is Laviathan and Behemoth?...

Are this dragon name in Babalonian words?...

Laviathan is one of Tiamat's first children. Laviathan is the lord of water, ice and blue dragons. But Christians think that Laviathan is a major demon. Picture a giant saber toothed tiger with wings, this is Behemoth. Behemoth is actually a mythical specie type. But this Behemoth is the lord of Behemoths.

Actually think it may be either 8 or 20 ocatves. An octave is a measer of music. 8 notes from I think b flat to a sharp c is in the middle??? I really don't know squat about music at all. I know i like to listen to it though! I could endlessly go on about almost any study of science though. Science and math are my strenghts and some history. As you can probably tell I SUCK at spelling! (my spell checker doesn't work)

Try googling Babalon, its the first human civilization. You will also see Mesopotamia, and Sumaria when you google Babalon. The Tigris and Euphrates rivers both run through this area.

I was assuming the word Laviathan was meaning Serpent of Air and Behemoth was Guardian of Darkness...

Look like I was wrong...

Umm...Thanks though...

People interperate Laviathan in different ways.

Tiamat's first born children are:

Chaose, lord of chaos and black dragons
Bahamut, lord of fire and red Dragons
Laviathan, lord of water, ice, and blue dragons
Gaia, Lord of earth and green dragons
Malestrom, lord of air and white dragons
Infinity, lord of time, and grey dragons
Celestial, lord of space and purple dragons
Chromatic, all 7 colors, he is the messenger of the gods

All of the these dragons are immortal?...

Yup! They are all immortal, they are gods and goddesses. They are the first born of all dragons. All others come from their lineage.

Infinity, lord of time...

This dragon's power is to control time right?...

He holds all the secrets and intracacies of time, and can work with and use time. I perfer to say "work with" instead of "control". To me there is a difference between the two. Control is.... welll.... control. But, working with elements such as these, is not controlling but, well...... working with them. If your working with something you and what you are working with has a nice flow together. Controll is working against that natural flow and forcing it to do something.

This is what I think and feel is right anyway......

Infinity works with time...Celestial works with space..Gaia works with the planet...is this an odd theory?...

Could these three could have developed an other world away from the human race like some sorta invisible gate like the Bermuda triangle for example?...

Beleive it or not, your not too far off. I beleive that all mythical creatures (dragons, elves, unicorns, griffons,dwarves) are all from a neighboring planes of existances. They used to come through to our plane of existance when humans where first comming to being. If you do just a little bit of research you will see that all old civilizations have such creatures. They are all so wide spread that they would not be able to have contact with each other. Thus not being able learn about such things from each other. So how else would these people have any knowledge of such things let alone each other? Travel was very limited back then.

If the invisable gate exists...

Does that mean...

Only pure-heart humans can cross-over?...

well some classify that dragons are "divine" creatures so that may mean that bones would not be found if it dies, kinda putting the mystery back into if they really existed

Then, how many dragons are there really then thats are in stories?...

honestly, i find most dragon movies to be very far fetched and kind of annoying. The only exception to this was Dragon Heart, but still very far fetched...

my thought on the fire breathing though is that if they did ineed exist, it's highly possible they used some kind of venom or hot liquid *such as the bug that shoots scalding water from it's body at temperaturs around 2000 f* which would burn someone horribly. in the days in which they were said to be around, people didn't know about those things and so would likely say that it was fire for lack of a better term.

i myself am not so sure they did exist, however hypothetically if they did, the bone structure being cartelege would explain why we've never found physical evidence of them.

XD this is an interesting idea...


^^; actually lightning is made by positive and negative ions in the clouds. it really isn't possible for it to be created in a mouth. not to mention given how lightening strikes *by things from the ground sending up feeler like charges of electricity of it's own* it would be a painfully and possible deadly attack for the beast, as by the time it was able to lock onto anything it would likely be slain.



Here's another idea to add to thought. Plasma attack. not sure how it would work though.



if i had to guess i'd say they were probably a type of dinosour.

Is that not from D&D? My understanding is that Bahumut is a huge fish that swims the celestial oceans with a huge bull on its back. I think it's Middle-Eastern in origin.

According to Gareth Long.

You should read all the entries in that site- most informative.

RKD

^^ i agree. i think if they were real they were likely to be dinosaures or a decendant there of.

there is a type of beetal that shoots extreemely hot water out of it's body *far above boiling point* so why couldn't dragons have this ability as well?

i didn't know these gods and goddesses had their origins in babalon. interesting. i think you just gave me another culture to study...

i'm confused, where would the bones go if it was devine? you mean like i completely just vanishes or something?

XD is it? i've been wanting to get into that game for a long time. >< all the people around here say it's evil...

In D&D Tiamat is an evil goddess of chaos, and bahamut is a platinum dragon. In reality if you read abouve Tiamat, as far as the ancient Babalonians craetoion myth goes, was killed by a God named Marduk, and her body became Earth. (more abouve)

Also if you have both played D&D and have studied history, you would know that almost all of D&D's creatures are from ALL cultures and religions down through time. You can look at a creature than look it up and 90% of the time it will be tied to the ancient religion from whence it came.

A few Examples:

Drow Elves-- Natively from Scotland, they were spelled dtrol, but pronounced Drow.
Also the Norse people had drow, they were called Svartalfar. Literal translation is dark elf.

Greek-- Griffons, harpies, gorgons

All Celtics-- Elves, Fairies, Goblins

Norse-- Elves, dwrave, half elves, halflings, giants, chimera, kobolds, goblins, and my favorite the Valkyries, the battle maidens. (Goddess not a mythical creature, i know.....)

Acenaspheru

That is what the other gland of components is for, i didn't expand on it as i should have. You are very correct. But in creating lightning you do need a cooler and warmer temp as well.

My apologies for not being clearer before.

ohh okay. ^^

I dunno, it's been a while since I've played it. I always thought it was OK though. Depends on what you want to take out of it. It's more fightin' and killin', than moral dilemas and such, but I suppose it's whatever you want to put in, you inveitably get out of it.




I never really bothered to sudy the history as it's pretty much obvious that they took inspiration from ancient mythologies, but I think Tolkein's work was more responsible (whihc in itself was based heavily on highly modified Saxon, Nordic and Celtic mythologies).

First thing's first is that there really is not much distinction between "good" and "bad" elves in Celtic mythology, or even what they look like. Elves were seen pretty much as alien and you never knew their intentions. The Chimera was Greek and unless I'm mistaken, Gryphons were originally Arabic, but that's just nit-picking. i would say that D&D was inspired by Tolkein first off (ie. good and bad elves etc), as well as Robert E. Howard (although the Hyborian dragons were little more than animals really), and then real mythology, but a lot of it has been tweaked. Like Kobolds for instance. Little earth spirits that are made out of clay or stone, or little goblins that are all too happy to do your housework as long as you feed them got turned into evil reptile people. But then since some mythologies, like Celtic, are fairly vague at times (goblins, elves, even Knuckaves, Kelpies and Each Uisges are all Fairies or Faeries), it's not surprising; It's all open to interpretation.

I would like to find out more about ancient Babylonian mythology though, as it's so exotic! Do you think then that Muslim mythology adapted some ideas then, such as the Bahamut? Turning it from dragon into a monstrous fish that houses heaven? I suppose in this case you can see the beginings of the likes of Behmoth and Leviathan in Judeo-Christian mythology.

RKD

I wouldn't really classify Tiamat as a dragon, but rather a multi-headed, legless, "chaos serpent", a sea creature many ancients believed was responsible for ocean waves and storms.. There is a frenquently portrayed Persian stele of a winged god that is fighting a dragon like creatures that is often mislabeled as Maduk fighting Tiamat, but it is actually from a much later mythology of Ahura Mazda fighting the Dragon Ahriman. This is the story in which the Book of Revelation is based, only Chrsitians changed the name of the angel to Michael and the Dragon to Satan, but it is exactly the same story about a dragon who after being defeated by the angel is bound up and cast into an abyss for centuries. It finally escapes, starts another revolt, and is cast into a lake of fire or molten metal.

The earliest true dragon legend is "Adape and the Dragon", which was the earliest verison of the Adam and Eve story. Here, the dragon guards a tree of eternal life, and offers Adape eternal life on behalf of the high God he serves. This story came from Sumeria as did the ancient Hebrews. But after 1500 years of telling this story as an oral tradition, the "Good Dragon" is turned into an Evil Dragon, who has his wings and legs taken away as a punishement for deceiving the first humans. But the bad dragon who becomes Satan is only one of a heavenly host of dragons that live in the Judao-Christian heaven. This is what the word Seraphim actually means in Hebrew, "Fiery flying serpents". Later, Christians became uncomfortable with the idea of dragons being the highest heavenly creatures, and turned them into swan winged humanoid angels stolen from Greco Roman pagan mythology. The winged creatures in the bible are always dragons, no angel has wings, and are often mistaken for normal humans.

So as to dragons being "real", they are as real as the God of the Bible believed in by over a billion people. The absence of dragon bones could mean they may never have existed, but on the other hand, if they are heavenly creatures as the bible says, none could ever be killed by man. And lets face it, it is ridiculous to imagine humans with ancient weapons actually being able to kill such a creature. Which is not to say heroes throughout the ages may have boasted they have.

There was a really great documentary on Animal Planet last year, called Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real. It was narrated by Patrick Stewart, but the dvd was narrated by someone else. The documentary was done under the premise "What if scientists found a body?" It then went on to describe the evolution of dragons from prehistoric dragons (they interwove the story with scenes of scientist trying to explain deep claw gauges in a t-rex skull that came from above), to their evolution to oceanic (aquatic creatures had a much better chance of surviving the KT asteriod) and into the different types of dragons that proliferate so many cultures.

It also stated the most believable theory I've encountered so far as to dragon flight and dragon fire:

Dragon bones are honeycombed, like birds, which make them strong and light. They also have the same massive breast bone/chest areas that bird do to anchor the powerful flight muscles. They also have enzymes in their stomache which produce, as a byproduct of digestion, hydrogen. (there is precidence of this in other species; we produce methane, for one...) The dragons have a special air bladder in their bodies (much like fish do) which stores this hydrogen. The hydrogen makes their already light bodies more boyant, thus making up the difference in their size/wingspan ratio.
In the dragon skull they "found" they also made the discovery that, in addition to sharp cutting inscisors and wicked fangs, at the back of the mouth the dragons had flat, hard molars. In these molars they found traces of platinum. They hypothesised that dragons were lured to platinum deposits (possibly giving rise to the legend of a dragons love for treasure) because they would gnaw on the metal and use the flecks that lodged in their molars as flint to ignite the...wait for it.... HYDROGEN that they stored in their bodies. They also talked about a flap of muscle in the back of the throat that was similar to one found in modern crocodilians that keeps them from drowning when they bite prey underwater. The scientist hypothesised that this flap kept the hydrogen from backflashing into the dragons throat and scorching its innards.

So...
1) light and strong honeycombed bones, massive pectoral flight muscles
2) stomach enzymes which produce hydrogen that is stored in an internal air bladder. the hydrogen keeps the dragon boyant, and acts as a fire fuel source
3) a fleshy "stop valve" in the throat to regulate the storage/flow of the hydrogen
4) metal in their molars which, when ground together, cause ignition of the stored hydrogen

sounds as good an explaination as any to me!

for ages one of the biggest debates about the existance of dragons is that there's no proof, no bones.

next is the question, how could such large, presumably heavy bodies, be lifted from the ground by mere wing power.

the answer to both of these questions could possibly be found in sharks.

sharks do not have bones except their teeth. Their body structure is made of cartelege. As we know, it deteriorates upon death with the rest of the body, and far quicker than bone. To some point, it's also lighter and therefore may answer how the dragon was able to get into the air. If it's entire support structure was cartelege would it not be lighter? possibly light enough to gift lift from maybe a twelve or fourteen foot wing span?

Why, or why wouldn't this idea be possible? i'm still working on the how they could have breathed fire, but to be honest if they were real, i'm not so sure it was fire. but that's for a different post.
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i think you have brought up a fantastic point.!!!!

People who believe dragons are simply natural creatures that were eventually exterminated by man believe in a greater fantasy than those who acknowledge they must have a supernatural origin. Even if they were made of cartilegge instead of bone, there are many fake baby dragons made out of the bodies of sharks and rays that have been preserved hundreds of years. You see, just as a unicorn's horn (really a narwhale's) was worth a fortune in Medieval times, so would any piece of a genuine dragon, so they were constantly faked and displayed in Chruch's as "the dragon killed by St. George" and similar nonsense. The point is, if anybody EVER killed a real dragon, its skin would have been worth a fortune and preserved in chruches like any other treasure. And even tiny fragile, bird bones from the time of dinosaurs have been fossilized, so there is no reason shy there would not be dragons bones. If dragons survived the KT event and lived up to medieval times, that's 65 million years and that means BILLIONS of dragons, and even if made of cartiledge, which is totally asinine, we would still find their teeth, exactly as we do sharks teeth by the billions.

A dragon with "bones" made of cartiledge could support its body on land about as well as a rubber chicken.

As for dragons being hydrogen balloons, this is stupid as well. Look at the Hindenburg zeppelin, imagine how huge the gas chambers would have to be to even support a light creature. If you don't believe me, tie a little lizard to a helium balloon and see how much gas it takes just to support it and you will see how ridiculous this theory is.

Dragons were rarely considered natural creatures to begin with. They were always connected with religion and the supernatural which is why they are often able to talk in these legends, an ability probably beyond the abilities of all dinosaurs save for a certain purple one.

But if there is anything to religion and the paranormal, then dragons are very real, for they appear in virtually every religion, but they must belong to this realm for nothing else is possible. This is not to say they cannot be flesh and blood creatures, that can devour sinners or virgin sacrifices depending on the given legend, but to fly they must be able to defy gravity, and obviously have never died, or we would have found some remains. But this is no different than the original concept of angels, which the Bible says were flesh and blood just like humans and had to eat food. The invisible spirit angels were part of pagan greek theology added to the Bible later by Greek Christians.

And as for spewing fire, when you can defy gravity, and live forever, the "fire thing" would be easy. The Bible constantly mentions their spewing fire AND brimstone. While brimstone is usually translated as sulphur it could also be phosphorous which leaves a powdery "stone" residue when finished burning.

Animals (including including people) have a fair amount of phosphorous in their bodies which could be absorbed and reutilized by a predatory "Seraphim-dragon" while on some heavenly mission of fiery retribution, like Somdom and Gomorrah, or burning down a Medieval barn, (a story recorded hundreds of times).

The bottom line is: if there is any truth to any religion, and there is a creator entity, dragons are probably (as so many religions say), servant creatures of this entity, modified from some natural archosaur millions of years before mankind would evolve to play a similar role. But if life on our world is nothing more than an accidental mixture of chemicals, on a planet the right distance from its star, then dragons are as "fake" as every other religious entity mankind has ever believed in.

You mean to tell me that Dragons were actually real creatures that were exaggerated and contrived by "The Church" to further their own needs?...............The Church would NEVER do anything like that.....shocking.

That's what I thought when I read the cartilidge idea. Large sea creatures need the water to support them.

Maybe they have found bodies? And mis-caterigized them as dinosuars. Since there were no photos back then, every pictorial or skeletal recreation in a museum is someone's best guess.

i did see that, and while i have to admit the evolution idea was prety convincing, i really was unimpressed by the fire.

over all the graphics were really good though and it was quite an interesting show. ;/ tivo cut the last five minutes off it because it ran over though so that was also really disappointing...

Look, DRACONIC chronicler. I never said that was MY theory, OR that dragons were real creatures. I was only responding to the intent of the thread, which was to pose ideas as to how dragons COULD fly and breath fire.

I never said they floated due to their hydrogen pockets. The science fiction documentary from which I am relaying all of this information proposed that the hydrogen filled air bladders made them more boyant; that is to say, lessened the load that their seemingly undersized wings would have to create lift for. To use your lizard on a balloon analogy, how big would a small (lets say 6") lizard's wings have to be to allow it to fly? Now fill that same lizard with hydrogen. True, it would not come close to floating, but I bet you it would weigh noticably less and therefore would take less effort for it to achieve flight. Its the concept of negative ballast. A football full of helium (or hydrogen) weighs less than a football filled with regular air.

Also, the Hindenburg was full of metal and machinery and electrical activity and, quite possibly, sabateurs. Granted the zeplin did explode, but there were many that didnt. In this hypothesis, it could be assumed that some dragons may have experienced fatal backfires but the vast majority did not, and THOSE were the dragons that survived to reproduce. I also tried to point out the flap of muscle in the dragons throat that prevented backdrafting from occuring, but I may not have made that part clear.

These dragons werent the huge, hulking behemoths of common conception, mountainous bodies lounging on huge piles of coins and treasure. The dragons in this science fiction documentary were about 20' long (still bigger than a person), but with a very slender body, almost akin to a greyhound. There wasnt much more to its physique than what was needed; ie, no great slothful girth as commonly portrayed in some fantasy settings. This also leant to the credibility of flight,

Given that the dragon only has about enough hydrogen stored in its body to fill a second set of lungs, there are no non-organic moving parts involved, and its fire breathing ability works roughly the same way as a blowtorch (and those dont blow up all the time, either) its a little unfair to completely dismiss the idea as stupid.

i dont really understand the question, but ill just say "alot" for the heck of it

#1 i'm a christian and yes i do believe in God, so why is it so hard to believe that dragons weren't simply another creation that got wiped out by scared people.
#2 if these in fact were angels of some type, they must have been fallen angels or disobidiant angels because in none of these stories do you ever see a dragon trying to spread the word of God. in fact they are often concidered gods themselves.
#3 obviously those are fakes. i'm talking about trying to think of a way these creatures could have actually exisited, just being misunderstood as evil or goddly.

and no i don't think the church would bother with fake dragons simply because they fake too many things as it is to keep track of...

that is possible and has crossed my mind before.

no, no, you did, it's just they seem to be the type to reply everything back to religion instead of trying to find scientific ways of explaining.

it's not very nice that they called either idea stupid...

i think he meant how many of the stories being told had real dragons as opposed to other religions portraying said animal as a dragon when it was really something else *like a laviathen for example.*

in any case yeah, i agree.

ok so that explanation of the "common" dragon
what about the asian lung, and the featherd ampither( i think thats it i cant spell ether )

i have a theory about the asian lung
it was a type of seaserpent that lived in and around coral reefs that swame to shore much like the sea turtle does, to lay its eggs, the it makes this trip through out its life, they would be, just a theory, about 30 feet long, the bright colors and antlur-shaped horns were to blend in with the sorrounding corral, they didn't have wings but they swam so they would still need to be light, i don't think they breathed fire, correct me if i'm wrong, they evolved at the same time as the "common" dragon but never had to change, like the crocadile and shark that it shared its terroritry with.

i can't come up with a theory for the featherd dragon yet, need to reasearch more

That documentary posed this theory about asian dragons:

Once the world settled down again after the KT event, dragons once again emerged from the sea. But they had undergone many generations of evolution. They were more low slung and serpentine (a form that was more conducive to aquatic life. They no longer had their wings, and quite possibly developed whiskers similar in appearance and function to a catfish. All of these features sound much like the common Asian dragon: long sleek body, small limbs spaced farther apart, a "bearded" appearance. I assume your idea about antlers as a camoflauge in coral is just as viable as any, given we are speaking strictly in the hypothetical.

Okay, if you believe in the God of the Bible, and that the Bible is the inspired word of that God, then you should also believe dragons are the highest heavenly servants, for that's what the Bible really says. True, many Christians may deny this, but the truth is undeniable. The word Seraphim means flying fiery serpent in Hebrew, and when the ancient Jews and Christians translated the word into greek they called the Seraphim Drakones, which is Greek for dragons. If this were not enough proof, ancient Christian art shows dragons forming the throne of God and swallowing sinners in divine judgements. Also, every ancient Christian of Jonah shows him being swallowed by a heavenly dragon, never a fish or whale, and when Jesus speaks of this animal he calls it a Ketos, which is a specific kind of dragon.

The biblical dragons do not spread the word of God, they were created to destroy the enemies of God. In all probability, Satan is one of these Seraph-dragons, sometimes identified as the dragon commanded by God to swallow (but release later) Moses, in ancient Jewish scriptures that supplement the Bible. It is these dragons, ridden by angels that are supposed to destroy one third of the human population during the triulation.

There are actually no fallen angels in any of the Old Testament scriptures Jesus endorsed. This was a later Christian myth inspired by Persian Zoroastrian mythologies. I am just finishing quite an in depth book about the dragons of the Bible and hope it will be released by Christmas.

Ancient Christian scholars identified Satan as a dragon, but never considered them evil as a whole. Ancient Christian texts no longer in the Bible talk of dragons in heaven who consume the souls of the wicked, and this is why Hell is depicted as the mouth an belly of huge dragons. St. Augustine remarked that the greatness of dragons proved the greatness of the God who created them.

And no the church didn't fake the dragons, everyone back then believed in them. But by that time they had forgotten that dragons were a kind of heavenly creature, as the ancient Christians knew. But churches bought fossil bones and faked dragons to bring people into the churches to see them, exactly like other church relics, such as part of Saints.

never mind, Q was answered, didnt see