On the following links all the 911 silly conspiracy claims are being debunked with extrem accuracy.

The articles below present evidence that Al Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm


Photos Of Flt 77 Wreckage Inside The Pentagon.
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

And more..
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentaToC.html

Pentagon -- Exterior Impact Damage.
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen06.html


It's sad that most 9/11 conspiracy believers are so blindly chasing ghosts that they aren't willing to stop and talk to the people that were there that day and know what happened first hand. It's a little like those that claim the Apollo moon landings was a Hoax, but have never talked to any of the people involved in the program or even bothered to study it.

They have their political belief and don't want any of that stubborn reality encroaching, so they just ignore it.

But then again, when have a real hoax believer ever let the truth interfere with his belief !?

Sadly, for some people, it would probably take agents of Al Quada hijacking a plane they were passengers on in order to convince them of the reality behind this.

Debunking 9/11 Website Debunks Itself

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/de...unks_itself.htm

P.S. You did not even begin to touch my other 25 points.

If you people are so sure, Prove it and get 100k

Another logical fallacy my friend, To "set up a straw man" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.

And what of the links I posted, have you even seen them.



So answer me this if you actually believe that this conspiracy could be possible.....

TITLE:

All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off.

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history...

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most if not all of them. Many of these men and women come from the military yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the governments next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag rule

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly truck in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who rather have investigations of the decisions which lead to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They wont say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like like the BBC and Al Jeezera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent org doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a hand full can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team in structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel to from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to china before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the fire fighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is the engineers don't know about Jones work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones's work to any structural engineer?

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why" No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorist say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorist never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorist say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed, Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involved the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long.



Controlled demolition!!!!!??

No planes?!

Perhaps someone should tell that to Stanley Praimnath who was on the 81st floor of WTC 2.

"What I see is a big plane coming towards me. This plane is coming, eye level towards me. Eye contact. I'm seeing a big gray plane, with a red stripe.

The plane impacts. I try to get up and then I realize that I'm covered up to my shoulder in debris. And when I'm digging through under all this rubble, I can see the bottom wing starting to burn, and that wing is wedged 20 feet in my office doorway. "


Sorry but I'll listen to the people that were there and actually saw the events occuring with their own eyes over someone who's entire claim is "Everyone else is lying to you." If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon explain how the wreakage got there, this was not a small amount either, it was quite a pile and included passanger luggage as well as pieces of fuselage, seats, glass from windows, the data flight recorders for Flight 77 and engine parts. How come all the passangers and the crew's remains (except for one small girl) were recovered from the Pentagon, or are you going to claim all the rescue services were in on it too?

How many people do you claim are in on this? Let's see so far as I can tell, all the survivors, all of those in Manhatten who saw the planes that morning. All of those in Washington DC that saw them. The check in staff at Logon and Boston who saw and identified the Hijackers (including one girl who commited suicide because of what she considered her part in not stopping them.) Every firefighter, ambulance worker and police officer who attended the three scene, including those that were killed. Every Structural Engineer, half the CT crowd, nearly everyone on boards that actually know what they are talking about.

So what's that? At least a 100,000 people? (probably more.) How exactly do you shut up that many people? You can't pay them all $10 million, that'd be $10 Trillion. The US GDP is only $11 Trillion. So how do you keep them from spilling the beans? How do you stop them taking the money and spilling the beans? By threatening to kill them? If so, what's to stop the same killers coming after you?

Even the conspiracy lovers would have to think -anyone who believes this needs to seek the nearest mental health professional.

Conspiracists in general, and 9/11 conspiracists in particular, will not criticize any claim, no matter how blatantly at odds with reality or with the the other conspiracy stories, as long as it "supports" the overall existence of the conspiracy.

This is because they are interested in lashing out at the perceived power structure, not in discovering any kind of objective truth.


God help anyone ignorant enough to buy into this crap.

Oh, good grief! The "evidence" of Al Qaeda's involvement from your link is this article from Pravda online...

A 112-page document drawn up by Ramzi Binalshibh, of Al Qaeda, and released by Qatar-based TV station Al Jazeera, admits that the organisation was involved in the terrorist attacks in the USA on September 11th and warns of a wave of new terrorist activities.

Well, I guess that settles it once and for all!

But seriously, this is hardly what one could call "evidence" that al Qaeda was behind 9/11.

Does ANYONE ever bother to read any of the posts before answering anymore.

Scroll down on this link, to the links and the articles below. http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

Com on, you guys are doing a Woo Woo 101, the old argumentum ad hominem ,it involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It is a logical fallacy.

Its like saying that just becauce one website does a pisspoor job debunking the moonhoax, the Apollo moon landings was a fake.

Nice contribution. Those photos in the link inside the first post are the very first good photos I've seen of the airplane wreckage inside the Pentagram. I'm also impressed that rense.com published them fairly and honestly.

After watching the news reels which CNN replayed on 9/11, it became obvious that it was indeed a plane that struck the Pentragram. There was simply early confusion at first by the eye witnesses.

This doesn't change my firm belief that President Bushwhacker KNEW ahead of time about the pending attack, and let it happen in order to start a war with Islam.

And, of course, the debunking of the debunking to the debunking:

http://lol.chroniclesofgaras.com/paul.html

And the 100K offer is a joke, since one of the contingencies is to prove the buildings fell faster than freefall. What, you don't think they wouldn't cover their asses?

You know what they say, three people CAN keep a seceret, if two of them are dead. Heck, the government cant even keep a stained blue dress a seceret, what makes you think that something like this ,with all the people that had to be involved(se my previous post) would be kept silent, or could fool real structural engineers, metallurgists, and avionics experts world wide.

It's true that lots of people used words like "explosion" and "bomb" to describe what they saw and heard at the WTC, but none of that proves actual explosives were used. You can hear an "explosion" without a bomb being required, and saying something was "like a bomb" doesn't mean you think it was one.


The BOM,BOM,BOM they heard was the compressed air blasting out the all the windows as the building came down.

Inconsistencies are the foundation of these sorts of conspiracies.

The conspiracy believes create them because they never bother with all the facts and details or simply just don't understand them, then they project them onto "the establishment" as proof, implying that the "masterminds" of these events were somehow so inept in the execution of "their plan" that any uneducated fool could see right through it.

C'mon. Everybody knows that 9/11 didn't really happened and that they just moved the twin towers.

The Apollo moon landings were faked.... and 9/11 was an inside job .... All of the evidence proves that both of these tragically staged events were government conspiracies .

"You People" ? Racist.

All the evidence proves that you don't do any research.

Do not to derail this thread. This is about 9/11 conspiracies, not about Moon Landing conspiracies.

guess what the cats out of the bag.

i dont want to appear as though im attacking you on a personal level i hope i dont..
but you sound like someone whos so stuck in the line youve chosen to take that your pride wont let you jump ship.
as many theorists do.
why is it that we have to be one side or the other?
its not that most think its impossible that a highjacked plane hit the pentagon but not too logical on the puny evidence offered.
there simply isnt enough wreckage there.
people are used to seeing wreckage from planes.
seeing is believing.. thats why i have such a hard time.
if i were on trial for this id want those tapes, wouldnt you?
if i were george bush and wanted to proove beyond a doubt id release those tapes wouldnt you?
its just curiosity .
and mine has nowhere near been satisfied.

First, I'm not BUSH fan. I lost respect in him when we attacked Iraq. Then it got worse in the Katrina ordeal..... but nevertheless, I'm struggling here with this idea you guys are debating. To me, it's disturbing-- As i'm reading here, I'm trying to figure out--- how -- where? When did this conspiracy theory develope!!?? You're actually saying we bombed the towers? We (United States)?
How many times does BIN LADEN, himself, have to admit it, or his worshipers? Those folks (WTC survivors) who actually witnessed the jet going into the second tower while they were still in the first tower, how do you explain? Any Jet debri left at ground zero, I certainly believe there was! There are horrid photos of victims (American people here) in [jet] at the pentagon, or excuse me, what was left of it. There is private footage of these jets hitting the towers, not media, there is footage on security camera at pentagon--- These last cell phone calls made home from these people, are they faked? These victims as they talked to their loved ones, is this whole conversation deal from Jets to home, is it part of the scheme?

Have Iran do their thing to us---You wont believe it neither. These enemies we have are real. The enemies are not us, it's the world. They hate us. Why do you waste your time in choosing to believe it otherwise? Do you not believe Al Qaeda has no power to do this? No reason, no motive? In their world, that Matta (whatever his face (pilot- of jet)) if not now but soon will be held like unto Mohammod.... they live in their religion. That's what they are.

Bin Laden never admitted he was behind 9/11 - the so-called "confession" video, which was so conveniently found, is a blatant fake.

Al Qaeda (even if it did exist as the Bush gang insists) did not and does not have the power to pull off 9/11.

The phone calls were most likely faked, but we'll never know since they refuse to release them.

The Pentagon videos are a complete joke - they show absolutely no 757.

The "terrorists hate our freedoms" mantra spewed out ad nauseum by the Bush gang is a complete farce and a total lie.

The sooner everybody realizes that we have the most dangerous "terrorists" in the White House itself, the sooner we can have the will of the people be realized, and we can truly be free of this vile and criminal group.

Wow, I wonder why if the most dangerous terrorists and criminals are in the White House and in control, why I'm allowed to even discuss this here. I wonder why I have a nice car, a nice house that I just had built, a nice motorcycle, a drop-dead gorgeous wife who also has a nice car, who says whatever she wants to whoever she wants. Why am I making good money? Why am I not in chains for speaking my mind?

Why am I not placed in the type of job that is convenient for the government? Why do I earn a higher wage than my neighbor? Why don't we all just earn the same wage no matter what we do even if I am a garbage man, my neighbor a doctor and our neighbor a lawyer? I wonder why it isn't here like it is in North Korea or Cuba?

Oh I know why... because people who say those things are full of crap. Ungrateful. Full of themselves, etc.

Oh, the topic... well, I don't know I wasn't there, I'll believe only the people that were.

[Edited for niceness sake]

dont you care that the people in the white house were not elected by the american nation?
and that to answer some of what youve asked above . maybe they dont feel its too important to force us to be slaves when we are going along with it so willingly!
a nice house , nice car, nice motorcycle etc you have done for yourself.
and good job enjoy them .
bread and games john q.
i know your not dumb weve spoken but surely you can see that those are exactly the reasons that they dont take it all away?
you ,we are the consumer without that goal to climb the capitalists social ladder they have no grip.
we are under total control.
we dont need a big house, big car, armani jeans.
what we need is others to be with a more simple life.
if it ever happens that we realise that we dont get the satisfaction we r looking for from mcdonalds they will then maybe begin to think of other ways to control us...remember religion had a long and brutal reign.

It's interesting what you're saying there and I'm not going to be holier than thou but sometimes I wonder at what cost we live in our mansions, drawing our large salaries while half the worlds population lives on about two dollars a day. I also wonder who the bad guys are sometimes.

Ahhh, conspiracy theories...

I'm just an average person who's not an expert in anything relating to 9/11 and here's my two cent on the whole thing. First of all, the whole conspiracy thing has gotten so out of whack, that it's annoying nowadays. Last thing I read was that there were no actual planes. Oh, c'mon, I'm not THAT dumb! On the other hand, I don't think that something like this can be completely refuted either way. There will always be questions. And there will always be answers. Not everyone will always agree.

I absolutely love reading conspiracy theories. That's not to say I believe everything I read. Some of it is such utter crap that only a moron would believe certain things. Other things may be plausible but the proof sucks. Other things raise more questions than the answers recieved and are entirely plausible. The trick is to keep an open mind, believe what you want; but don't sit there and presume to believe that you are 100% correct in your knowledge on an OPINION to the point where you are going to argue it all to death. There are very few among us who are actual experts. (and when an expert actually does show up within any conspiracy, I prefer to see more than a mere few)

On the day of Sept 11, 2001, when I was sitting there watching the whole thing on TV, I saw those buildings collapse along with a million others. And I thought to myself, "hey, that really looks too clean, just like a controlled demolition." I'm willing to bet that's how it started for alot of people who are 'stuck' in the whole conspiracy theory as what it has become these days. As for me, I recognise I am no structural engineer, no demolitions expert, and I know I haven't seen any really tall buildings fall in my lifetime that weren't demolished, so what do I know? So of course, when reading conspiracy theories (as I love those), I am especially interested in what has been said abt the 'demolitions' of the towers. But so far, I have seen no real proof this was done. Sure, there are reputed white flashes just before the planes hit and certain explosions that are supposed to depict charges going off. I've seen the videos and still frames. BUT I have still yet to see these actual white flashes even in stills (I must be blind) and any explosions that do not look like they were part of that fire caused by the impact of those planes. There are also certain mathematical theories associted with proof of demolition. But you know what? I am still no expert on anything related to what I THINK may have looked like a controled demolition. If asked today, I would still say it looked like a controlled demolition to me, but I would NOT claim that that's what it really was.

And I am only touching upon the towers collapsing issue. There are so many other issues and questions abt all the other events of that day. But as with everything, one really ought to keep an open mind. On a day like that, can one honestly think that all people that had to deal with this, especially the government, COULD deal with it all in an entirely perfect manner? (Oh yeah, this sort of thing happens all the time, we know EXACTLY how to handle this.) I was not surpised that all kinds of evidence was taken, for one, as, well, who wouldn't do an investigation? Whether it was all handled properly is debatable, but I wouldn't go as far as to expect perfection. (The Mayor of New York, though - he was awesome in dealing with it all)

So yeah, with something like this, and with this proportion of 'hugeness', no one will ever find all the answers. There will always be questions that CAN'T be answered, questions abt events, ability and abt reactions. And hence, there will always be 'theories' that could explain some things and they will never be entirely refuted. That's ok ; it's just not ok to go to extremes with it all and believe one way or the other is the only answer to everything. It's good to keep an open mind and use some common sense as well.

I, myself, believe I am sort of neutral. I don't believe the US gov't is entirely innocent, but that is mostly with how they dealt with the situation and the people and I really can't place fault in that. On the other hand, some 'theories' do make sense to me (I'd like to see some real proof, though) but, for the most part, the whole conspiracy thing is so far out these days there's no possible way I can believe it, or even half of it. There's way too many holes.

Very true, most people arguing for conspiracy theories are so convinced that they are not going to be swayed by any contrary evidence. There is a 911 conspiracy site called Loose Change with a forum to discuss it all. Trouble is, anyone who turns up asking awkward questions about how the conspiracy theory deals with this or that piece of evidence gets banned. This is particularly true if you mention a debunking site called screwloosechange.

It seems that the less expertise you have, the easier it is to spot "anomalies". I'm an engineer, and although I don't work in structures, it was a part of my education. As a result, I wasn't surprised by the way the towers collapsed, it was exactly what I would have expected given the way they were damaged.

You are right of course.

Most conspiracy believers have their political belief and dont want any of that stubborn reality messing with their fantasy, so they just ignore it.

And while real structural engineers, metallurgists, and avionics experts just blow them off as ignorant fools they still truly belive in their heart that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Here Sunny98, I will show you what I meen, some of you CB dont think there were any parts of the 77 at the Pentagon, well ok, here you are.

Photos Of Flight 77 Wreckage Inside The Pentagon.
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm


How many people do you conspiracy believers claim are in on this? Let's see so far as I can tell, all the survivors, all of those in Manhatten who saw the planes that morning. All of those in Washington DC that saw them. The check in staff at Logon and Boston who saw and identified the Hijackers (including one girl who commited suicide because of what she considered her part in not stopping them.) Every firefighter, ambulance worker and police officer who attended the three scene, including those that were killed. Every Structural Engineer, half the CT crowd, nearly everyone on boards that actually know what they are talking about.

So what's that? At least a 100,000 people? (probably more.) How exactly do you shut up that many people?

How this silly conspiracy theory can make sense to anyone is beyond me.

My take on the situation:

People who boarded four planes that morning were DELIBERATELY flown into buildings....one having crashed before it could reach it's destination.

Those people had REAL families who mourned and are probably STILL mourning the loss of them. I wonder how those families feel when they come across ANY of the Conspiracy notions. I have tried to place myself in their place several times just recently after finally having watched United Fight 93. The absolute horror that I feel inside is ONLY my attempt at feeling the indescribable torment that they must feel.

And just recently I saw a photo in the newspaper of two of the Suicide Pilots.......LAUGHING....SMIRKING.....ONE AND A HALF YEARS BEFORE this happened......supposedly....from the description....Reading THEIR wills. ....something that each and everyone of those human beings who were instantly removed from their lives did NOT have the opportunity to do. That picture....I will tell you...made my blood boil.

Excellent article about conspiracy theorists...and the conspiracy theorist mindset.




http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

The film is a rapid-fire collection of video clips set to techno music, attempting to prove that:

1. No plane hit the Pentagon - it was a cruise missile;

2. The hijacked planes didn't bring down the World Trade Center, the buildings were wired with explosives ahead of time;

3. Flight 93 didn't crash in Pennsylvania and in fact landed safely elsewhere. The passengers were in on the conspiracy.


All these claims have been debunked many times
with extrem accuracy.

I read that Article. One of the best things I've ever read. And yet, as always, the CT'ers will ignore the flaws in their logic.

That's another site which will earn you a ban if you mention it on the loosechange forum.

Good post. Very well said.

I agree with you 100%.

http://www.911myths.com/html/fake_video.html
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...confession-tape
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html (timestamp 01:10:38 )
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pgs 34-40)

Al Qaeda (even if it did exist as the Bush gang insists) did not and does not have the power to pull off 9/11.
Argument from personal incredulity, and racially overtoned.

The phone calls were most likely faked, but we'll never know since they refuse to release them.
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 65)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...ell-phone-calls

The Pentagon videos are a complete joke - they show absolutely no 757.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/penta...ensions_est.htm
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen....ures/index.html
http://www.flight77.info/
http://www.mikejwilson.com/911/

Good Post!

I wonder why!


They've sold more than 100,000 copies of this garbage on DVD, and would love to double it.

These 9/11 conspiracy theories are a joke, right? All I hear and see is evidence from people who don't have anything else better to do with thier time than to think that the government staged and carried out a brutal plan just to start a war in the Middle East. I guesse the police, firefighters, people who were there aren't credible wittnesses. Not only that, but the video I saw of the twin towers the day of 9/11 clearly showed a plane bringing down the towers. But I guesse strategic demolition brought them down. Maybe my eyes were tricked into seeing the plane hitting them. Government brainwashing well done.

How about the pentagon? Did it ever occour that maybe the plane was disintegrated when it hit. How much debree from the planes were found at the World Trade Center? Sorry, there were no planes demolition did it. Maybe I'm just another cover up tool for the government, or maybe I just see the truth that a sick, twisted organization out for thier own glory wanted to make a statement, which they did.

For the love of God, could someone show proof that the confession Bin Laden made on tape was a fake? Not someone's opinion on a 9/11 theorist websight, someone who is an expert with no agenda of thier own. Do the theorists think Bin Laden would be cool to live next door to? I guesse that back in 1993 he had nothing to do with first attack on the World Trade Center. Maybe Bill Clinton wanted to pull something off so he could spill blood in the Middle East. Bush senior didn't get it done, so Clinton would.

If 9/11 was government staged, then how about London and Madrid. Were those two great cities also a victim of a made up terrorist group? Maybe no one died there either, all computer generated, right ? Strategic demolition inside a busy subway system, no one would notice.

I don't like Bush or his administration. The way he has put it to the American people is repulsive. Trust me, I can see why nobody likes him. I just can't think that even he would have the audacity or resources to pull off what happened on 9/11. Does anyone think that the Bush administration has the intelligance to pull the biggest cover-up in Earth's history?

I will admit that 90% of conspiracy theorist claims can be debunked, but there are a few claims that continue to be avoided, even though they are well known. It seems debunkers want to avoid the hard questions and stick to debunking ones that they feel comfortable doing.

Here are some unanswered or very strange anomalies of 9/11......
1) the magic passport......the only thing to survive from inside of the plane that hit the north tower. The only other piece found was part of the landing gear
2) no black boxes found......very strange anomaly because it happened 4 times in 1 day
3) no identification parts ever found of all 4 planes......that has never happened before in aviation history but happened 4 times on 9/11 despite all crashes occurring in areas easy to search
4) the put options.....why have the names not been released yet. You can't buy put options without giving some personal info
5) some hijackers reported alive....The BBC and London Telegraph both reported that some of the hijackers are still alive, but it seems that if its not on fox news, then no one pays attention
6) damage in the wtc basements....a janitor and engineer both reported explosions that occurred right before and after the jet impact 90 stories above. The damage was extensive with a 20 ton hydraulic press incinerated, an underground parking lot decimated, and steel doors crumpled up like tinfoil. Fire traveling down the elevator shaft does not explain this
7) Bin Laden's initial denial....people forget that OBL denied having anything to do with the attacks a week after 9/11, something he certainly would have took credit for if he was really behind it
8) testimonies of eyewitnesses......these continued to be ignored despite firefighters, police officers, emt's, and office workers all claiming to have heard numerous explosions before the south tower collapse
9) the 9/11 wargames....what are the chances that wargames would be taking place at the same time the 9/11 attacks were, causing confusion and chaos
10) the 737 engine....why hasn't the 737 engine photo on church street been explained. Where did the 737 engine come from when the 2 hijacked jets were 767's.
11) the molten pools of metal.....these have been attempted to be explained but not rationally.
12) The APP reported that 2 of the hijacked planes landed in Cleveland on 9/11. Why has this never been explained?

Mr. Raptor, Just as Clinton knew the eight years he was in office as well. You are giving Bush how many weeks again in office before these attacks took place? This terrorist plan took years to develope into it's potential. This did NOT take week or two! I'm not in any way backing Bush, this to me is common sense--I'm still left wondering what in hades has Iraq got to do with Bin Laden as far as Bush goes!!!! I admit, either way, the government was very aware of the potential attacks here. I will even go as far as saying they knew the approximate locations-- yes, maybe even about {when} this would take place, just not specifics...I will tell you why/ how I know this much: Someone very very close to me is a marine. He, specifically told me in confidence this would happen ( in 1997) {in scary detail}. He explained it would happen at a time when our govt was weakest (new elected official being one, he said). Except he even went further. There were other targets, one was a building in Atlanta, one was on a port in my very own state, one was a bridge (?) I want to say the names, but maybe I shouldn't. He was sent in to the University by the Marines to further study biological warfare. (another {{huge reality threat}}, which there are ABSOLUTELY NO precautions taken place here at all! This is so DISTURBING) If so, when, where? I'm missing it. They ALL are aware of this one (bio attacks) too, despite whose in office.
I bring him up specifically because I had this very profound conversation with him in 1997 AUG! I didn't say a word, I let him talk... There were no opinions in this conversation, just listening. Other things he mentioned, we need to be prepared. Seriously, this isn't about democrat or republican..this is about us and our survival.//.


He didn't make it out of Iraq. & What he said to me that day was precious.

Actually, pretty much all of these compromise questions that are repeatedly repeated, and answered, on a fairly regular basis.

Heck, go ahead, pick one, and it will be answered for you.

I could only logically answere three of the facts you stated.

Damage in the WTC basements- I don't know the exact temperature, but jet fuel burns extremely hot. Possible it ran down the elevator shafts causing the fire to trail after it incinerating everything in it's path including items in the basements.

Testimonies of eyewitnesses- I don't doubt they heard the sound of explosions before the South tower collapsed, but the building was under extreme stress, also it was on fire. The noise could of been the framework of the building itself buckling under it's own weight. Or possibly other combustible materials ignited and combined with the jet fule set off a series of explosions before the collapse.

The molten pools of metale are the product of the extreme heat generated from the jet fule fed fires. These fires were so hot that they burned the protective layer of fire resistant material on the framework of the buildings. If that hot, then the steel beams would face the intense heat with no protection causing the steel to liquify.

Like I said earlier, I can only explain or possibly explain three of your facts. I am going to research the others. Interesting post.

You're absolutely right-- but, ignorance is bliss for sure. Isn't this C theory offensive to those fighting this war? Or offensive to those who were victims of this attack? The way I see it & maybe i'm wrong, scapegoating to the benefit of the REAL ENEMY is giving the enemy power. Why would anyone want to do this, or even take a chance on that?

http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 33)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html (timestamp 01:03:26)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...s-and-passports


http://www.911myths.com/html/black_boxes.html
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...s-and-passports


Please clarify what you mean by "identification parts"


http://www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 52)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html (timestamp 01:14:09)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change#put-options


http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 2)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html (timestamp 01:11:09)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...4#the-hijackers


http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...illie-rodriguez
http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/k...m#_Toc144446008
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html (timestamp 43:31)


http://www.911myths.com/html/responsibility.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 53)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg5.html (timestamp 01:12:17)


Explosives produce explosions, but not all explosions are produced by explosives.


http://www.911myths.com/html/false_blips.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 63)
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html (Subject Index: Air Defense section)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...e#norads-drills


Evidence?


http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html
http://www.lolinfowars.co.nr/ (pg 26)
http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/k...m#_Toc144445988
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg3.html (timestamp 51:11)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...-3#molten-steel
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=4


http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg4.html (timestamp 58:53)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...ed-in-cleveland

Bush? I can't stand him. But, honestly to put this theory in the hands of Bush is like giving the point scored to the next game. Clinton just got out of eight years. Bush had been there no time. To have as many folks involved in this so called conspiracy you'd think it would take more than a couple of weeks! Clinton administration knew this was a reality, a threat, and they didn't take this threat seriously.

Clinton tried to kill OBL, something that neither Bush tried to do prior to 9/11.

Arkan Wolfshade...man, kudos to your organizational skills!

Eh, thank my browser, I'd be much less useful without my bookmarks.

You have the burdon of proof! How can you prove that this piece of metal in the pentagon is NOT a 757? It's certainly don't belong there, what sort of bomb looks like that, o' and what is an apparent piece of landing gear doing there along side that piece of metal, tampered evidence? Bin Laden's tapes are "faked." Did he fake them? Wonder if Bundy's tapes were fakes too! These phone calls from (supposing) victims- what victims? Next, you folks will say there were no real victims in the towers, they were all in on the conspiracy. I've looked for something or another on these claims, I see nothing, but hogwash.
Clinton KNEW about BIN LADEN and these threats way before Bush was in office. He did nothing. O' yea he fired a missile in retaliation for the S.S.Cole... his whole point there was to cover his ass while he was too busy exposing other things to what's her face ....demonica? anyway.
The enemy is JIHAD!!

No, the Government has the burden of proof, and they have failed miserably to support their claims.

The Pentagon videos show nothing to support the claim of Flight 77 hitting the building.

If Flight 77 did hit the Pentagon, there would be debris that would match up by part and serial number records for that specific airplane. They have not given us any proof for that whatsoever.

There are no airport surveilance videos from the morning of 911 showing any of the so-called hijackers before boarding - not from Logan airport, nor from Dulles airport.

They have not released the actual flight manifests from any of the four flights. The Govt says that some of the hijackers used aliases that day. They have never explained what these aliases were, nor how they matched each alias to each hijacker.

How you can accept these things simply because the Govt says so, without any evidence to support them, is incredible. Burden of proof is not important if the claims come from the Govt, in your world.

And regarding the Pentagon, please explain the testimony from Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta....

Mineta: "During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President...the plane is 50 miles out...the plane is 30 miles out....and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president "do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??"

Of course, we know that the Pentagon was not evacuated prior to being hit. Cheney sits in the White House bunker, waiting for a plane that is being tracked all the way to the Pentagon from at least 50 miles out. He somehow knows that this airplane - over 50 miles away - is heading directly towards the Pentagon. He gives no call to the Pentagon, telling them to evacuate the building.

But I suppose Cheney was under mind control from bin Laden, as the evil mastermind of al Qaeda transmitted subsonic electromagnetic waves from his cave in Afghanistan directly into the White House bunker.

oh god he's back

Rather than dealing with your thread gulling, I will deal with your first claim of fact:


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/jamie_mcintyr...he_pentago.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/personal_effects.html
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/penta...ensions_est.htm
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
http://www.mikejwilson.com/911/
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/lcg2.html (starting at timestamp 18:30)
http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-c...ght-77-wreckage

Your links do not address my specific point....

If Flight 77 did hit the Pentagon, there would be debris that would match up by part and serial number records for that specific airplane. They have not given us any proof for that whatsoever.

As Col. George Nelson, USAF (ret.) put it...

In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. This is because every military and civilian passenger-carrying aircraft have many parts that are identified for safety of flight. That is, if any of the parts were to fail at any time during a flight, the failure would likely result in the catastrophic loss of aircraft and passengers. Consequently, these parts are individually controlled by a distinctive serial number and tracked by a records section of the maintenance operation and by another section called plans and scheduling.

http://www.physics911.net/georgenelson.htm

The parts unique to a 757, and to Flight 77 specifically, would be identifiable by serial numbers, etc.. The Gov't has not provided any documented evidence for their claim that Flt. 77 debris was at the Pentagon. If this evidence existed, one must agree that they certainly would have released this evidence to the public. A long time ago.

1) That you don't have the serial numbers in your possession does not allow you to dismiss all of the other corroborating evidence out of hand. This is a "god of the gaps" fallacy.
2) Has anyone filed an FOIA request to get the serial numbers? They aren't going to release them if no one specifically requests them.

No, what's interesting is this man can certainly appreciate the country he lives in and those blessings associated, unlike yourself who adhores those uncivilized hooligans & laws in BinLadenLand which undeniably killed thousands of OUR people. Go figure that one!

Actually the CIA had targeted him on Radar to kill, and called CLINTON for authorization, but Clinton being the chicken chit and too friggin busy getting his dickaroo inhaled he said "no!" Clinton had how many [years] to destroy this threat? Bush had how long to finish Clinton's incompleted mission? Very biased indeed!

Yep, Binladenland. That'd be anywhere outside Mississippi for you me thinks.