http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1-Dp_-7WI...ated&search

Watch this all the way to the end. This video confirms that the angled cut on the H beam seen in the photo at the bottom of [this page] is the remains of a controlled demolition.

I am relinking this because government shills are trying to claim that the still photo of the angled cut is a photoshop fake. This video shows moving footage of more of these angled cuts, ruling out photoshop. - Michael Rivero.

KAAPOW!!

Watch the whole of this film here:

http://911weknow.com/

Oh there's a lot more to this story than meets the eye. That's why the Gestapo(Homeland Security) [attachmentid=28785] saw to it that this occurred ... [Salt Lake Tribune - 9/11 theories put BYU prof on paid leave]

I believe that the U.S. government is full of the [Nephilim,]. However, they have limited power over the children of God, so this is another reason to have a talk with Jesus, and soon. They will openly appear one day, and when they do, it will mark the beginning of the Great Tribulation and Abomination unto Desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

The subtle hints of what is beginning to occur are outlined in Revelation 13:17 "that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name."(In other words, if you don't go along with him, you won't be able to work or even buy goods, because the "mark" simply refers to a philosophy or belief system. What's on a man's forehead is what he thinks, and the right hand is a man's action hand, or what he does. So you must think and do whatever the Beast says, or you won't be able to work, and you'll eventually be killed.)

Great Post! I've already read up on that, and its pretty amazing to me that these H beams would just some how in a natural collapse, be sliced in the same manner shape charges cut. You just have to go back to asking yourself, what could cause these beams to be cut on that exact angle.....

- How come the Taliban and Bin Ladin never said, it is not us who did it?
- How come United Airlines, the Insurance company, it's Employeee never said, it was a government conspiracy alright?
- How come the relative of the victims never sided with the Conspiracy theorist?
- How come the NYFD never said, our fellow workers was murdered by the government?
- How come the Liberal Media is not backing up all the evidence posted in the internet?
- How come the Democrats are not leding an investigation with all the evidence presented?
- How come no one is taking Alex Jones seriously except those at UM?

Well if its true then its possible some of those groups might not know and some might be in cahoots

- Well, it's all over the internet now, they at least woulld look into it, right?
- The government in cahoots do do a crime in that magnitude with United Airlines, Insurance Company, the NYFD and the Media???? That is not in Cahoots, that is as good as a formal annnouncement!

-Or try and discredit it as a conspiracy theory
-Well they wouldn't have to tell most of those groups anything, and even the ones they told, they'd only have to tell a few select members, not everyone.

Of course this is only speculation, I have no Idea whether any of this is true or not.

When you control the evidence, you can control the perception of it.

quote from above link--", and began lecturing in Utah and across the country about his theories, which allege that the planes crashing into the towers created a diversion for an unnamed group, possibly the U.S. military, that had planted bombs inside the towers"

Ok, so these plane's pilots who obviously knew about this conspiracy, were actually willing to go to the 72 virgins for sake of the U.S government?
None of this is rational.

the fact that the wtc had never reached even 66% occupancy and had to be subsidised from the get go is well known what isnt so well known was that with the bombing in 1993 by the fbi as well as the loads of asbestos that had to be removed before demolition could take place rendered the building a white elephant which was going to cost the owner/s?(the building was constructed with subsidation and even maintained by it so essentially the new york tax payers were partial owners previous to silverstein) more than it was worth even with years of redevelopment considered-- im not sure who assumed authority to sell it to silverstein much less find an insurance agency stupid enough to include such ludicrous terms-- also i must say that before gulliani gained fame for criminally destroying valuable evidence i remember him as the one resposible for the 41 SHOTS police state death ritual-- ny is corrupt to the core and the evidence is all around us you just need to wake up--

Well, if you look at some videos of the 2nd plane hitting, while the camera's focused on the first tower at the very top, when the second plane hits you see just a row of squibs as they call them, bursting out tower 1 all around the top of the building where the camera's focused. And the thing is,you cant say this is from chance that all these squibs would just happen to blast out when the 2nd place hits, they happen in a rapid sequence. First, the fires were burning very low in volume in tower one, then all of a sudden when the second plane hits you see these blast points. Its like whats said in the article, the planes were nothing more but diversions for explosives.

And as far as the pilots of these planes go, would someone please talk about the Atta Money Trail. He was wired 100,000 reportingly a day before 911(sept 10), and by others sources the exact date was unknown, but if the date is correct, what could Muhammed Atta do with 100,000 dollars in one day if he is going to commit suicide the next day? Even if he were to spread it out among the other highjackers, why would they need money to commit suicide? Funding?! Even if these 'highjackers' were sleeper cells, it wouldnt cost them any money to suicide. Buy a plane ticket, a cheap box cutter lol, get on the plane and boom HIGHJACKING, no money required! Im just positing Atta as well as other highjackers, could very well still be alive. Hell, Attas father doesnt have a problem thinking so. Just my 2 cents.

*Also for further dicussion on the Atta Money Trail see my topic no debunker bothered to post on..... The Atta Money Trail

I have managed to pull up some videos specifically of second plane hitting tower. I have focused at top of {first} tower as this jet is making entry point of the second tower. To clarify, these squibs are they coming from the tower being hit at that second or from original tower which at that point is full of black smoke?

Those "blast points" looked to me like reflections off of glass, or the windshield of the jet reflecting off the tower.

Uh, those angled cuts were made by the cleanup crew, that picture is taken way after the collapse.

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

Both very good, and very reasonable explainations for everything brought up in the videos.

I know that this won't change people's minds, instead of changing some one's mind it's easier to believe that all of those explainations were additional conspiracies set up to coverup this one.

Geez Sloth, you do your homework! :]

- Depends on your interest correct? Who would cover up for the government, well?
- Then they can't pull it off unless they involve many.

- Wait a minute, I thought you conspiracy theorist has now all the evidence that is why you believe the US government is the one who killed 3K on 9/11?

I remember an indepth study revealed he was given that money to tighten up last minute details of course. But, including they were given enough funds for these freakazoids to spend as they like considering it was their last day in the world before ascending in the sky with their 72 virgins in the name of Jihad { }....strip bars, etc; whatever they wanted to spend it on, what was left supposingly was returned to sender the morning of the eleventh by Atta!

Thanks for pming this to me lol, was it that important? Anyway, yes to clarify for you, these squibs were coming from WTC Tower one, which was hit first. I seen the video 3 days ago, but now I cant find it ; ill keep looking though. In the video the camera was fixed on Tower 1 as the second plane hit tower 2. After the impact of the second plane, the camera didnt zoom out and to the second tower, it remained fixed on tower one appently from level height. (possibly from a helicopter or somewhere?) As said, before the impact of tower 2 the fires in tower 1 were burning at low intensity, with just a lot a grey/black smoke coming from different spots, but then you hear this roaring which is the second plane, then like 1 second before the initial impact of tower 2 you see all these squibs blast out from all around the top of tower 1. Its definately not reflections off glass or the windshield of the jet from tower 2, you clearly see something force these blast of some sort out of the building which then makes the tower 1 fires intensify from the low level they were burning at.

I wish I could see and indepth study of the entire situation! Oh, but Atta was given the money to tighten up last minute details? Its takes money to do that? Buy a box cutter, board a plane then highjack it, then pull a kamikazi. What kinda of last minute details would require 100,000 dollars? I already know Atta was given enough funds to spend as he liked on strip clubs, or wherever, but as we can imagine 100,000 wouldnt be spent in 1 day on those small trips entirely. But as you claim, the remaining money would be returned to the sender; the Pakistani General at the time Head of the ISI who wired it to him General Mahmoud Ahmad, who was having a series of meeting with the top of the brass of the U.S government on the morning of 911. That's the link I would like investigated or at most TALKED about.

Hi
I don't really see the significance of The Money Trail™ in this instance unless someone can show direct links to Rummy or Cheney or some such. Most of these suicide bomber type deaths get the money sent to their relatives, so you don't really have to wonder what Atta was going to do with the money - his mum is prolly living in a nice apartment in Saudhi Arabia thanks to the procedes. In fact, this arrangement is one reason so many disaffected young men are willing to strap explosives to themselves - with their death, their families live a much better life. Ironic, no?

{You} made the statement about these squibs being such a give a way of a bomb, worth viewing, and it didn't prove to be there from what I could tell. I wanted to know exactly where these {squibs} were, and If I was looking at right piece. To clarify something doesn't prove importance.
I saw a flash on a piece that was high resolution, but it looks more like reflection of the jetliner to me.

Ah yes, the "squibs". http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm

Thanks for that clip there Hazzard. I saw that before and (assumed) it was from pressure.
Everything seems to be read into so much it's insane here.
Another CT (don't remember who) said look at this "flash" (bomb?) It was nothing, absolutely nothing but a silly reflection.

Oh, you dont see the signifigance of this money trail? Unbelievable! Let me inform you on exactly what has happen. Muhammad Atta, the U.S proclaimed lead highjacker, the ring leader, was wired 100,000 dollars before 911, reportingly sept 10th, by the Head Of The Pakistani ISI General Mahmoud Ahmed. Besides wiring Muhammad Atta 100,000 dollars this General was in Washington on morning of 911 having a series of meetings with the top of the brass of our government all of which what was dicussed in those meetings go unknown. Someone who has financed a criminal(s) of the biggest attack in history on the U.S is on the same morning of the attack having meetings with the top officials of the government and was allowed to escape after the events unpursuited! You dont find THIS SIGNIFIGANT?! I dont mean to insult, but are you that ignorant? Why this general wired Muhammad Atta the lead highjacker 100,000 dollars before 911 shouldnt be held as signifigant?! Looks like you hold the same belief as those in the 911 Omission Report, "this is of little consequence". Im going to say it as Michael Meacher Former Blair Cabient member said conserning that "It is of MASSIVE CONSEQUENCE". I guess "if the governments wrong you dont want to be right". Eyes Wide Shut

Oh and I've heard this argument before, about "maybe Atta sent this money to his next of kin or family before he sacraficed himself so they could live comforatbly" been there done that. If this was the case, and the 100,000 dollars wasnt intended for Atta but his family or next of kin, why not just have the General who wired him the money send it directly to them?? To give it to Atta, then have him forward it to them, would all the more complicate things, still making it traceable; especially if he tried doing this within the U.S. If this general forwarded the money outside the U.S directly to Atta's family, we probably would'nt have heard about this AT ALL in the news. So this argument just does'nt fly. Next......go do your homework.


You asked me to clarify on where exactly did I see these squibs in the video I've seen and now your coming back with this crap about "oh to clarify doesnt prove importance" if your here to discuss what I said, lets get to it, dont ask for something if your just going to disreguard it anyway. And from the sounds of things you didnt see the video I've seen before the impact; so dont make judgments before you do, it just makes you look foolish. But, I said I was looking for the video, I never bookmarked it, if I find it I would present it to you and we can further the discussion.

LOOKIE HERE!! I (simply) wanted to know if I was looking at the right footage! Afterall, I didn't want to be "judgmental".... looking for the specific view {you} talked about in original post POST 11 (at bottom), to be exact. There seems to be a million angles out there on video, but that's me being ruthlessly judmental, of course. Where does it prove anything of importance? I thought I was giving this theory the benefit by asking *for sure* checking this stuff out {on a serious note, otherwise why would I ask you specifics!!?, but that's me being judgmental here}, rather than blowing this sh*t off like most do, I notice ... but that's ok, I'm just judgmental.
That being said, what in living hell am I wasting my time for asking you these o' so "important" questions, digging up these millions of videos (it seems like it) to SEE YOUR DAMN POINT!?? only to make judmental comments and being called a fool?
-- One view there are two flashes. footage is not clear to tell what flashes are. Seems like reflections off of something... that is how it appears. Sorry.
The other looks like pressure or could very well be. But, again, I'm judging.

From POST 11
Sunny: Ok, so these plane's pilots who obviously knew about this conspiracy, were actually willing to go to the 72 virgins for sake of the U.S government?

When did thermite become an explosive?

Hey An Urban Legend
First of all, cool your jets, ace. I've seen a few versions of this argument floating around already, and I've seen them debunked, that's why I didn't ask for more information. Also how does a money trail leading from Pakistan to Al qeada prove the Ebil Gumint done it?

Evidence for this?

So you are generally informed of the goings on of meetings between heads of state? I'm not being facecious here, I just don't think it's reasonable to assume anyone out side those meetings at any time would know what went on.

No, I find it unsupported and irrelevant.
You see, you make one big assumption - That general Mahmoud Ahmed paid the hi-jackers - and then all your logic follows on from there; which, apparently gives you the right to ask questions like this;

No, I'm not ignorant. I haven't based my arguments on a logical falacy, YOU have.


Sorry... what? Are you saying you don't have the faintest idea about what actually happened to the money (if there was any)? Or are you saying that it would be too complicated for someone who is considered by some to be one of the largest funder of terrorist cells in the world?

As you said yourself, been there, done that. The only difference between you and I is I know there is more for me to learn.

Gotta love it when CTists completely derail other CTists threads.

As for the OP, I'd like to see some proof of when the picture of that column was taken. My guess is quite some time after the collapse, since it appears all the dust has settled. If it was taken hours or even days after the collapse, it most likely has been manually cut by a member of the cleanup crew. You can see the slag on the beam from the cutting tool they used.

This is only reinforcing phunk's earlier response on page one:



KAPOW, indeed.

that picture was taken on 9/11/01-- the photogaphers name is not a part of national security and the firefighters pictured were part of the search and rescue team and no firefighters were involved with the clean up



edit:yes tk

I'll assume you meant 9/11/01, and of course, ask you to prove this statement.

Nothing can be proven here unless the Conspiracy Theorist can show and prove the source of the so called explosives.
Well? Who supplied the explosives?

Doesn't the Military use Thermite?

Actually, AROCES and Avinash_Tyagi, with all due respect, I still haven't seen anything that even approaches evidence that thermite was used. With that in mind, it is a strawman to suggest that the military may have supplied it.

Oh i'm not saying it was either, i'm just stating possibilities

- In other words you are just simply throwing mud out there and hoping to get a hit.

No i'm just trying to speculate in lieu of a full investigation of the possibilities

Geez, that's weird. I could have sworn there was a full blown investigation, culminating in a large, comprehensive report, that not one engineer has found any problems with. But maybe I was mistaken.

The 9/11 commsision wasn't really focused on the physics of the events of 9/11, rather they focused on:

Al Qaeda and the Organization of the 9-11 Attack;
Intelligence Collection, Analysis, and Management (including oversight and resource allocation);
International Counterterrorism Policy, including states that harbor or harbored terrorists, or offer or offered terrorists safe havens;
Terrorist Financing;
Border Security and Foreign Visitors;
Law Enforcement and Intelligence Collection inside the United States;
Commercial Aviation and Transportation Security, including an Investigation into the Circumstances of the Four Hijackings;
The Immediate Response to the Attacks at the National, State, and Local levels, including issues of Continuity of Government.

I believe Dogshead is referring to the NIST report, not the 9/11 commission.

What about NIST? Were they more focused on the engineering, physics, and failure analysis of the event? Because they investigated the fall of the towers, too. And they are currently investigating WTC7.

By the way, they also found no evidence of explosives or thermate at the site.

If you want to argue there was thermate there, you need to tell me why there was no barium nitrate found at the site. Thermate is thermite with a large amount of barium nitrate and a small amount of sulfur added to it. The entire argument that thermate was found at the site hinges on the detection of sulfur. If that sulfur was from thermate, then there should've been a much greater amount of barium nitrate detected. But, of course, none was ever found. Sulfur, of course, is a main ingredient in drywall. Of course it was present at the site. Sulfur-based drywall was the third most-used construction material at the WTC.

Steven Jones made a giant leap when "discovering" thermate at the site. He detected sulfur and immediately attributed it to thermate, which was a complete act of desperation. He had a theory, and tried to manipulate facts to support it, which is a complete affront to the scientific process. Don't forget, this man is a scientist. He knows the proper way to conduct a scientific investigation, but chose not to. Why? Because he knows his 9/11 theory is wrong, so he's desperate. He's in too deep to come out with an undamaged reputation, so he's grasping at easily smashed straws.

In short, he's a liar.

well first off i'm neither saying it was thermite or not, but from what i've read of the NIST investigation, they admit that they never gave an analysis of the alternative theories or of "progressive collapse", now maybe there is no evidence to support those theories, but i'd like to see them test those theories fully, just to confirm

I think you're confused on how a scientific investigation is conducted.

The NIST looked at the evidence, thoroughly analyzed it, and arrived at a conclusion based on the analysis of that evidence. They did not set out to prove that the buildings were brought down by airplane impacts and fire, nor would they ever set out to prove there were explosives. That isn't how a scientific investigation is conducted because it enters bias into the process.

I think you misunderstood me, I never said they should try and prove any result, but merely to test the possibilities, like simulate a "progressive collapse" or a controlled explosion to see whether what happened that day could be explained by such an occurence.

Look at item #2.

It would be a waste of time and money for them to investigate how the buildings would've reacted if they were collapsed due to explosives. Not to mention impossible, since they would have no idea where charges would be placed or how much explosive would be used.

Oh I read that already, and i'm not saying they're wrong, but since they never really tested the alternatives I don't know if they're right either (there's still the "shadow of doubt" so to speak).

Maybe you're right, maybe they can't test it perfectly, but they might be able to conclusively show that it would be impossible to get such a result as 9/11 from using controlled explosives.

civilian uses

military uses

Actually, they couldn't, for the simple reason that it would be perfectly possible to collapse the towers, both 1 and 2 and even 7, using demolition explosives. It just isn't supported by the evidence.

I understand what you are saying about testing the alternatives, but it simply isn't practically possible. The simple fact of the matter is that pretty much anything is a possibility, and trying to test things 'backwards', meaning from the conclusion to the evidence, is not only inefficient in terms of both time and money, it is also a fallacy of logic. There are too many things that could work IF something is assumed; the problem is that one still has to prove that the "IF" occurred to begin with, and, frankly, as is only too obvious with many on the conspiracy side, If is all too often considered to be the same as "DID".

Could the towers have been brought down by explosives? Certainly. However, in order for that to have occurred, a series of events would have had to have taken place which are so close to improbable that they may well be considered impossible. Expert demolitionists would have to be brought in, and when I say expert, I mean one of less than a dozen companies with the experience and abilities to carry out a high-rise demolition. Right away we hit a snag; the demolition world is extremely small, and competition is tough. To say that a major player suddenly stopped accepting contracts for a given amount of time and nobody noticed would be unbelievable. These people keep close tabs on each other. They simply would not have been able to plan arguably one of the worlds most difficult demolitions without someone noticing.

And that's just the tip of the logistics iceberg! If we are solely going on the physical evidence that the NIST report focused on, we still come up short. One of the first things that is done at the site is a chemical analysis, not just on the debris, but on the air, on the water, on any absorbable material on site, on pretty much everything. There was not, in all that, a single sign of explosives. More accuratly, there was nothing out of place. Investigators trigger on things that are out of place. Yes, there was sulfur on the site, but that is to be expected, as sulfur is a common component in building materials. It isn't out of place. None of the explosives dogs reacted to anything on the site either. We are talking about easily over 1000 pounds of explosives, and hundreds of yards of detonation cords needed for a job like this, and not one scrap was found anywhere by people, police officers and firemen, who are familiar with the very distinctive look and smell of such things.

In short, the reason why demolition wasn't investigated is because explosives is NOT an alternative theory. In order for it to be an alternative theory, it must first be a theory, and there is simply nothing present that would support the existance of this theory. It is similar to claiming that the towers were brough down by a giant laser fired from space. It is not a theory (and it would be idiotic for the NIST to investigate it), for the simple reason that there is nothing to indicate that it is a valid theory. There is no evidence to indicate it might be, in any way, a possibility.

Aquatus, you're being naive. We have been taken for a ride by an evil that knows the bigger the lie, the easier it is to spin it. The sheep don't really care, they just hear what they want to.

This photo was taken eight weeks after the Twin Towers collapsed.


Notice the cut in the steel, this was not FRESHLY done by the firemen. WHAT DO YOU THINK CAUSED THIS CUT AQUATUS? ALIENS?

So they cut that one beam and the whole building came down?

Take a look at this demolition experts opinion of the WTC 7 collapse. Keep in mind that he had never seen this video footage before, and wasn't aware of the existence of this footage. [Link to You Tube]