You called me ignorant, arrogant while also telling me to grow up! And no! personal experience dosn't even prove anything to oneself, that's the trick about beeing objective in your own mind.


Elvis ain't alive nomatter how many people think and report seeing him a day. Also the phenomenon has been looked into quite alot and there are also some very impressive stories to gather on the afterlife if you took yourself abit more serious than to watch ghost hunters and suck it all up like a amazingly dry spunge.

Basically all evidence or proof of the phenomenon is fakes and/or a result of the list i write further down. Atleast if you want to stick with science (which is a good idea, i know rules suck, but they are here to stay believe me)

Now it's a moneytool, a belief grinding machine, a myth used for entertainment and imo exploitation of the fresh youths.

I remember seeing some clown state this very senteance in a ghost documentary, but sadly it just dosn't make it any more meaningfull.
Mass hallucication are nowhere as farfetched as ghosts and noone ever said it was mass hallucination. It isn't. More like a combo of :

Lying,
Storytelling,
Dramatizing,
Failure to understand how the mind works,
Fame,
Money,
Fiction writers posing as fact writers (poetic license - There is a nice article on the main page about this)
Stupidity,
Mental illness,
Attention,
Boredom,
Jumping to conclusions that fits personal belief systems,
High level of imagination,
False memories,
Hallucination,
Frauds,
Fear / Paranoia (combined with imagination, some people misjudge their own experiences like crazy).

I could go on and on. Life isn't as black and white as the guy in that docu you stole that line from wants to give you the impression of.

He tells you what you want to hear and you eat it raw without looking at how absolutely deluding that sentence is. It was written and designed to have that affect i can assure you, that or the man is amazingly low iq'ed.

Wether you like it or not, this list will dumb your "phenomena" down to a very small phenomena as everything on the list are very common things in human nature. When was the last time you saw real evidence of it ? I'll tell you when! NEVER! And no your flying pen or personal ghost experience don't count either, not even to yourself.

I could also try to convert all religious people to philosophy. Same challenge.

Do they want to be converted ? No!

Can you make someone understand something they don't wish to understand? No!

Why not ?

Because there is comfort in belief, a sort of mental lazyness. A parking lot for the mind vehicle. There is excitement and rebellion from this cage of natural "boring" laws. There is relief in the convincement of an afterlife. (funny how all beliefs steer towards life after death. Could it be the minds way of filling up this empty black hole of timelessnes? All concious does in this realm, is exist, so offcourse it will build up defences of other realms when forced to think of non existance)

Rebel on brothers!

Oh yeahhh, I remember now. After you starting being an ass.




You rarely hear anyone claim this. It's not even close to the same thing. It may appear to be on the outside, because both are people claiming things, but when you look into it, it's much, much different.





I'm none of those. And neither are my family members. I could argue the same thing about airplanes. I've never riden on in real life, nor have I seen on in real life...

There are so many people who experience ghosts, money is not really an explaination. Nor is lying, because most tell their close family members about it first. Of course some of these can explain SOME of the cases, but all? Psh, I VERY seriously doubt it.

What do we do when we have a phenomenon such as this, and we don't know if any of the above explains them all... we just ignore it? I very seriously think not. That would be insane. What about ball lightning? Imagine if we treated it like we are Ghosts. I mean hell, all of the above would fit that phenomenon as well. People are not as crazy as you may think, if we see a ghost, we're definitley going to tell others. Why shut up just because people will accuse us of halucinating, lying, looking for attention, etc....

Imagine how one feels when they experience these things firsthand, clear as day...


People thought that those who claimed to experience ball lightning was crazy. We'd still not know what it was if we assumed they were all just seeing lightning, or seeking attention.

I consider atheists rebels actually. It seems like a juvenile bandwagon. Thinking that having a deity over us is oppressive or something. Which i can understand somewhat since god is usually portrayed as wrathful or demanding. Hardly anybody stops to think that there is god and a afterlife but not the way religion portrays it.

As for lazy... i'll credit the skeptics with that quality.

The cynics are the most lazy. Instead of actually proving that a phenomena is not worth looking into, they give half ass "explainations" that *may* explain the phenomena, and then shrug if off.

THAT'S lazy.



Ykaedhi Aewee, how do you explain the experience you had? Didn't you say you saw a ghost?

*snorts* Atheists arn't rebel bandwagoners. They are people who would rather explain things through sciences then chalk things up to a god. If anything, those who would rather say "Oh something happens because.. god made it happen..." is more lazy then not believeing that a god made it happen, and finding out what really is going on.

^^ Well in that case, it's the same as those who rather shrug off "Ghosts" rather than actually find out what's going on. Instead they just *assume* it's all mass hysteria and shrug it off..

exactly ;P I'd rather find out if whatever's happening caused by a ghost.. nature (like wind), or something else that could explain it.

Haveing grown up with unexplainible happenings in my room.. (what I called my ghost cat) along with unexplainable happenings in the kitchen before we moved it.. (doors and cupboards opening on their own).. I tend to have an awareness to such supernatural hauntings.

Ok you guys win the thread.

Clearly it is more sensible to shrug off everything i just wrote in that list and jump to the conclusion that DEAD SPIRITS UUUUUH are offcourse also a cause. The only place you've got that belief is from fiction that you feed into your weary head and your subconcious fear of dying isn't exactly helping you see it.

I have one last thing to put in this thread and it's a song by The Doors, a small reminder :


Someday soon
Someday soon
Familiar freaks will fill your living room
Rugs lash out their lizard tongues
You're not getting young
You're not getting young

But you're going to die
And you're going to be leaving all of your life

You’ll be all alone
When the animals cry
All by yourself
In some infancy’s lie

Someday soon
Someday soon
Television bleeding like a harvest moon
Flush the scissors down the hole
You're getting old
You're getting old

And I hate to remind you but your going to die
And you're going to be needing all of your lies

You’ll be all alone
When the animals cry
All by yourself
In some infancy's lie

Someday soon
Someday soon
Someday soon
Someday soon

easy to ignore you... when your tone is as arrogant.

I know what I've experianced... What it was... could have been anything from a ghosty spirit... to a protector spirit.. to.. who knows what. However, what I do know.. is that it's not made up like you seem to want to make me believe. ;P

If the only experience you have had of a ghost or spirit is from a book or the media, it is not logical to assume that it is the same case for everyone else.

I've never seen a person contradict itself so many times on such few sentences.

You know, but who knows what and you know something you can only believe... But you don't want to believe because you know already, while really believing.


AAAAALLLLLRIGHTY THEN!!!!!!!

This thread started out being about the thermal image captured on Ghost Hunters. What difference does it make if you believe in an after life? Just because you do believe doesn't make the thermal image a genuine ghost.

For the record, I do believe in life after death but I don't believe in every claim of paranormal activity that is presented. I have good reasons for believing this was an accidental image of Grant.

As far as the song lyrics by the Doors, I don't think I'd consider Jim Morrison the greatest philospher of all time. He was pretty screwed up. It would be nice if we could discuss this without trashing one another's beliefs.

Good point! Although i don't agree on your opinion on Jim Morrison!

We're not shrugging off what you're saying. But you're saying there is a good reason to ignore the Ghost Phenomena, which is clearly what you're doing. I simply tried to point out that your reasons are not good enough. Yet AGAIN you reply with sarcastic comments instead of actual debate.



1. I don't fear death.
2. I don't even know if there's an afterlife, or even a God.
3. I believe in Ghosts, because of what I've observed throughout my lifetime, and the tons and tons of cases being reported. I've looked into it alot as well.... I see way more reason to believe that these cases are real, than I do to believe they are all just mass hysteria.





You wasn't there to experience what she did, so matter what your opinion is on her experience, all it is is a BELIEF, LOL. So what the hell are you complaining about.

Also, how can you honestly know that her experience wasn't real, when you weren't even there to experience it yourself? I got one for you.... Socks don't really exist. I can't believe you actually believe in those silly things! It's just an illusion of the brain, guy.. get over it.

Hey, this is sorta fun!


EDIT: One thing IS getting quite annoying about you... You keep implying that I believe in Ghosts because I WANT to. Not the case... not even close.

Zero, I have a question...how can you believe in ghosts and not believe in an afterlife? Where do you think the ghosts come from that you say you've observed? I'm not trying to be unkind; this is a serious question.

I like the Doors music, but I still think Jim Morrision was screwed up!

Easy... Even if I believe in Ghosts, I don't know what they are!

And I've never said I don't believe in an afterlife.

I didn't say you said that. I asked how you could believe in ghosts and not an after life because you said you don't know if there is an after life. You've answered my question...thanks.

Ykaedhi Aewee

What I don't get is.. How can someone just sit back, not even look into the phenomena and say "It's not worth looking into", when there HAVE been those who have looked into it, and have gotten some pretty good data which would suggest we should try to better understand the phenomena.

They ask for videos, so we give them videos, then that's not even good enough. We even go the extra mile and catch a few EVPs, but that's STILL not good enough. What do you expect, someone to PROVE the phenomena before you decide to look into it more? How logical is that.... Tell me something, what would YOU need to see/hear/feel in order to consider the Ghost phenomena worthy of more study?



Also, you completely ignored my ball lightning analogy. And it fits perfect, as it's pretty much the same scenario. People use to think that those claiming to see ball lightning were crazy.

I'm pretty sure ghosts are spirits. I dunno what else you'd call a dead person that still hangs around.

Well.. it could also be left over energy, but then again some of these hauntings seem intelligent.

Alright guys, I think the image we are seeing has something to do with the paint on the locker. In correlation to the size of the number 2.... the figure we see is pretty much overshadowed in size by the number 2. I'm not saying that the figure isn't bigger than the number 2... because "it is". I'm just saying look at the correlation to both the #2 and the figure. The #2 can't be more then a few inches in length and width... so therefore the size of the figure is automatically miniaturized in reality. Conclusion is: the figure has something to do with the paint on the locker. End of Sory. Great footage though. The hotspot on the other hand could be that whatever the #2 is painted with or made out of, was able to absorb heat from a light-source. before they broke the thermal imaging camera out. I'm not certain about the #2 being hot? I am certain however that this is explainable.

It's been thoroughly debunked and the debunk theory has been accepted by most reasonable people. There are others that insist it has to be paranormal just because TAPS captured the image and they're the best ghost hunters in the whole wide world. I don't think either side is going to change their minds at this point.

heya. i think that was amazing. i also think that there is a lot of proof that spirits exist no matter what form or shape because of the amount of evidence that is gathered. that was really good evidence.

If you really want to see a "fake" show of ghost hunting (halarious really, but completely nerve racking you can tell everything is faked and staged.)... try the one off travel channel ... uhm.. most haunted.. haha what a joke. And I have to admit I did catch the laziness of the "debunking" but all in all, I'd still watch the show simply because.. it's the best one out there right now and they do catch things (even though it's a cat running across the hall, etc. but this is where sense and logics come in I believe.) There was also another documentary (not sure if it was sci fi... or discovery channel) about a movie being made at the place where TB patients were sent in the 1930's?? or something like that and I can't remember the name of the place, it's 3am and time for bed two hours reading this post and most of it was pure bickering. ) If anyone remembers that documentary, let me know or start up a new thread. Thanks. But all in all.. I'll keep watching TAPS simply because that's the only one worth watching out of any of the "ghost" shows.

We're not talking about Most Haunted...this thread is about the thermal image captured by TAPS. Comparing their evidence and methods to MH really doesn't excuse their weak debunking. That's like saying "My car isn't very good but at least it starts; the car next door only starts once in a while".

That's the reason they don't bother to do quality investigations anymore; they know people will watch no matter what and accept any so-called evidence they throw out there.

Thanks, I know what the topic is about. Using most haunted as an example of how crappy ghost hunters COULD be. I already said in my first post, their debunking methods *are* weak. But you was right I was completely off topic, and forgot to post what I wanted to post about the thermal image. (I blame the lack of sleep from last post. ) The "soldier" was impressive first time seeing it, but alas, has been debunked... is it really that shocking ?? No. I don't think it is shocking at all to find that it has been debunked. I've tried searching around to see if either of the guys from TAPS has came back with a comment about this, but I havn't had any luck. If I do find something I'll post it.

When exactly did you see a "quality investigation" at all ?? In my eyes from the very first season, from episode one, it was always a weak debunk. The only "quality" per se, debunks would be those that they knew were complete logical explinations for, and I don't consider that quality.. I consider it common sense. And if the majority of the people watching this national aired TV show choose to believe everything thrown at them that is their buisness not mine, (personally I don't) yet I will continue to keep watching because I happen to like the fact I can make MY OWN decisions with what they present. Let me add to this.. from my viewpoint also, it's a TV show.. take it with a grain of salt, all tv show's have the same thing in common.. RATINGS, and I think that should be kept in mind while watching any TV program.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I just thought because you compared GH to MH and stated MH is fake that you were saying that GH is genuine.

As far as a comment on the themal image by Jason and Grant, you probably won't find it. Grant posted once on the old TAPS board regarding the image but he never said if he thought it was real. They did present it on their "Best Of" show. Some people have said that J and G say it's paranormal but I haven't seen or heard that, not that they haven't, just that I'm not aware of it.

I didn't start out thinking of the show as just entertainment, but I'm like you now. I take it with a grain of salt.

WOW, that would creep me right out. If i was there and i seen the tape of it staring me down.

I personally like to watch TAPS because its like a ghost hunting, reality tv show that sometimes make's me laugh, especially the bickering between the hunters, i favorite is the cop, he seems to be the only real level headed one there, (EXCEPT FOR BEING SCARED OF HIEGHTS) besides there wives who let them no there crazy. You guys on here that keep fighting over who's right or wrong, your both right, And myself, dont recall except for the lighthouse episode, that they actually say without a doubt that the place is haunted. And they must be doing something right because my netflicks account has been trying to gain control of season 2 for about 4 months now with a very long wait....

lets have a closer look...shall we? ....





if I didn't know better I'd swear he had a a pair of shades perched on his forehead.....B

I actually saw that video before. It's quite interesting, yet spooky!
Great find.

JJO

Ghost Hunters capture some of the best evidence out there.

very cool video