If you go to any thermal imaging forum and talk to IR thermographers they'll all tell you it's a reflection and TAPS are noobs at thermal imaging.

It takes alot of training and education to fully understand how it all works (and that's the only reasons anyone would think this is a ghost), so go here and let the pros tell you :

http://www.snellinfrared.com/messageboards...oard1/index.asp

As for Grant moving then your only assuming how he moves. You can't actually see it and even if you could his reflection would still update slow. Here is the example of that :




(btw Zero feel free to share what you have experienced with ghosts)

I'm not assuming how he moves. I'm basing it off of what we can see and verify in the video. The figure is not even standing like grant. It's pretty obvious that anyone with a camera in hand scanning the room would not be standing facing to the side with their arms by their sides. And the way this figure is standing, it would have to mean grant wasn't even looking at the locker when the imprint was FILMED, which is impossible.


Also, I've already posted my experience here before. Doing so here would be pointless. All you'd try to do is "debunk" it, but debunking a personal experience is pointless and is always inacurrate because if you were not there, and did not experience it, you can't understand it to it's fullest.

Your still assuming. Your assuming he is standing with a normal camera, while he is holding a FLIR cam which is held in a quite different position than a normal camera.

This is a FLIR cam :



(there seems to be some trouble with direct linking of images, but if you type in "flir cam" in google you'll see it. TAPS use the old model which is held very low position, not the newer model which is held abit higher.)

You hold it like you hold onto a bike handle, in a low position so you have a clear view of the attached screen.

And no he wasn't looking at the locker, he was waving the FLIR cam around like a flashlight and sometimes looking down on the screen which explains both why the "ghost" is faced sideways it's own reflection and why it apeears to be looking down.

Look budy, TAPS never point a camera into a mirror and if that was the chandler posing next to the door his body temperture will show much higher. These people are serius, the don't need to fake it. They have debunked many hauntings so I don't think they will just come and fake it now. Nice try though.

Try and actually read the thread before answering, it helps.

This when I lost all respect for them, or believing anything they say.

I'm not home now, but here's a reply to one thing I read.

I never assumed anything. I also never comented on what type of camera he had either. There are also points I've made that you ignored.


Also your explaination does not explain anything. It does not explain why the imprint is stiff and non-chaning. It does not explain how he could be walking and pannig the room with this camera, and then catching a "reflection". I've watched every episode(almost) of taps, and I've seen them use this camera before, yet I've never seen them stand in anyway that you speak of, or at least in the way this "figure" is standing.

Don't fault Taps for not having any members under 5 feet tall and able to materialize out of thin air. Did you even see the episode?

Yes infact i did explain it and provided imagery and examples thereof. Just because you don't understand it dosn't mean i didn't explain it.

I'm done with trying to explain it to you though, it's higly frustrating for me that i have to repeat myself.

I understand it perfectly and there is nothing odd about it to me.

If you really want to talk to people who know about thermography and seek the truth i provided a link for you to a thermography forum. These guys will tell you what i did (how do i know ? Because i actually realised how little i understood and decided to talk with some proffesionals about it), but what do you care ? You obviously are above all that... Knowledge and stuff...

A word of advice for the future : You shouldn't expect anything scientific on a channel called "Science-FICTION channel".

Good day sir!

I think your missing the point... But... Meh...

*puts on "let it be"

What point?

Just nevermind ok... Believe what you want, i still stick to my belief that TAPS are clever frauds.

Entertaining non the less..

You don't have to repeat yourself. I very well understand you. I just disagree with you.


Note: There is no possible way to get SCIENTIFIC evidence of something spiritual. Why? Because science cannot deal with the spiritual world(If it exists). Therefore I do not need something to fit 100% perfect with science. I just look for what I personally consider evidence.

Since we're now sharing our perspectives let me tell you mine :

Science = The human mind trying to cartograph and systemize our chaotic, amazing reality. Just because you can make sense and system of a part of it, dosn't make it any less magical and unlikely. Fundamentally unexplainable.

Spirituality = A word used for the things we cannot grasp or understand with science. Gives our mind a restingplace in endless possibility. Mental lazyness.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Science is everything and can explain everything. Ghosts and other "spiritual" stuff if they exist also follow patterns and are bound by laws. So many ghoststories and so little evidence thereof leads me to believe it's mostly a concept or biproduct of the human mind.

Human need for lying, attentionmaking, moneymaking and famemaking is a much more common phenomena and can explain just about every attempt to prove myths.

I still find paranormal phenomena exciting and all, but i don't believe it.

Science cannot, and will not ever be able to test, study, or discover everything. Some rules of science will very possibly hold it back from discovering certain phenomena that are real.

And you would not understand an experience with a ghost unless you've had one yourself. I did not question if what I saw was real or not, because it was as clear as me looking into the sky and seeing an airplane fly overhead. There was no reason to halucinate, and I've never halucinated in my entire life.. Given that, wouldn't it be extremely farfetched that the one time in my entire life that I halucinated, it was something that other people have seen as well? I very seriously doubt it.

I just realised what a pointless discussion this is growing to be.

I got better things to do tbh.

Adios.

I have the episode recorded, if you would just take the time to read the debunking pages, we have been posting it would make sense.

I was referring to the cloak figure not the thermal image. The thermal might be Grant. They debunked an incident just like it in the last episode.

Yeah!

The cloaked figure is the worst example of fraud from them to me. This is a direct fake. If you worked with amateur movie making you will recognize the effect used straight away, it's called undercranking.

Here is a link to a guy recreating it in his basement : http://www.sumo.tv/watch.php?video=54303

Basically, you put on a black sheet to make the figure appear unclear. Then you record him running back and forth in 30 FPS, undercrank it to 15 FPS and wupti you got a spooky figure looking like it's moving in a supernatural way materialising out the darkness.

The whole point is that TAPS are clever guys and they act more stupid or lazy than they really are when debunking their own stuff. They are all over Brian for his incompetence most of the time, but when capturing such an amazing piece of ghost footage they let him be the main man at debunking it.... Hmmm...

Also take notice that the figure appear to have white feet (sneakers), and if you're real careful and pause the movie at the right time you can see the white jeans underneath the black sheet.
It's an obvious undercrank and offcourse they can't recreate it without fixing the framerate. So they count on people having enough trust in them to completely rule out that they would've faked it and fixed the framerate.

Its great how you keep saying you have "better things to do" and just end up back here trying to defend yourself. If you try hard enough- I mean, really really hard, you can debunk ANYTHING.

Look, real or not, most people here choose to believe in them (TAPS and their findings). Why? Because its entertaining! If it wasn't entertaining, guess what?! They wouldn't have a TV show! Real or not, why do you people have to keep showing up to piss in everybody's coffee? If people want to believe, they will believe. You gain NOTHING by regurgitating someone else's pages and pages of wasted time. I mean, seriously- what do you want? A medal? "Yay, you proved, beyond the shadow of a doubt, using someone else's research, that something on TV may or may not be real! Congradulations!"

Now please- this is a "paranormal" website. I come here and post on a lot of things, though not as frequently as I used to. There are things here that I believe in (such as aliens and "ghosts") and things that I don't believe in (like the Mothman and "orbs")... Just let it be, alright? You've proven your point- you don't believe in them, so you believe in some random guy you found on the internet. Great way to prove a point, since we all know things can't be faked by computer. (/sarcasm off) I'm not saying you're wrong, but its pointless going on some crusade just to prove to yourself that you're right. Just let it go.

welcome to my ignore list, enjoy your stay

Wow, one jab and he decides he can't fight me... now we can both cry "Victory!"

That video is such horrible quality i can't believe anyone would consider that debunking. It does nothing to immitate forming out of thin air, and all the dude does is run back and forth. Really it looks stupid.

I've just watched another episode of Ghost Hunters. They cought 2 more of these so called "reflections". One looked exactly like the one from the clip on this topic. I have even more reason to doubt it's a reflection as well. The one that did NOT look like the image from the clip on this topic, they concluded was a reflection. They said the reflective surface reflected their heat. The one in the hall was not a reflection however, as there was nothing to reflect anything.


You guys may think I WANT to believe it's a figure, but I truly and honestly do not. I see it more logical that it is NOT a reflection.




Are you serious? LOL! That looked so stupid. The video which taps captured was WAY too fast to be any human, and it literally appeared out of thin air before running away. With this video you can actually tell he's running.

I think the skeptics at those forums you talk about aren't actually skeptics. A skeptic is not biased, a skeptic goes by evidence and logic alone. These skeptics seem to WANT all of these video captures and pictures to be fake.

A scenario to me that would fit best with this type of skeptic would be:

A person who does not want to believe airplanes are real. Everytime someone sees one, they'll claim it was a misidentification. If they see one for themselves, they say it's an optical illusion and it's simply a bird flying really high. If they have a "personal experience" and ride past an airport, they'll say their head was playing games with them...

It seems silly, but honestly, it does seem to be the same type of scenario in my opinion.

These types of skeptics expose themselves when they try to give dumbass explainations for things instead of saying "I don't know what it is...". It's very obvious that they're struggeling to prove it's not valid pictures of video because they DON'T WANT it to be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling all of these videos and pictures valid and legit. I'm just saying I'd much rather be a skeptic the smart way and not succumb to dumbass explainations. I'd rather say "I don't know".




EDIT: New information. The image that did look like the one captured in the clip on this topic ended up being Grant. Jason passed the camera near him for a split second.

When they first got to the hotel, they listened to the claims of others. One claim was that there is a ghost in a certain room which uncovers the person who's sleeping's feet. So grant decided to sleep in that room with a camera pointed at his feet. He was never aware of it, but something "odd" happened. The video captured the blankets actually moving upwards to uncover grants foot. During the entire process, you can clearly see where both of grants feet was so it was not the movement of his feet. His hands were also not what pulled the blankets, as it was too low for his arms to reach, especially in the position he was.

At the end of that investigation, both Jason and Grant had a hard time deciding what to conclude. They said the best thing to do was not to conclude anything.

First they said they don't want to say it was paranormal if it wasn't, but it sure did look paranormal.
Then they said that they did not want to brush it off, because it could potentially be a paranormal event.

Either way, the video verified others' claims of this happening to them.

Ever heard this quote ? :

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt!"

Well now you have!

PS: Santa is real, a human told me so.

I did not do anything. I've stated that the one that did NOT *look like the one in this topic* WAS a reflection. Which puts doubts in my mind that the one in this thread is a reflection.

But that episode also goes to show how they do try their hardest to debunk something. They couldn't even come out and admit the blankets moving was paranormal, even though Grant obviously thought it was. They actually seem exactly like me.. I mean lean more towards one side of the fence, but I have a hard time stating any straight opinions on something.




Um.... ok.

If anyone is interested in seriously considering whether or not the thermal image is paranormal you should check this out. It's a solid explanation of what was actually captured on the thermal camera at the Cresecent Hotel.

http://www.ultimatetechlinks.com/CrescentHotelAnalysis.html

lol

Lol is right! I didn't read back far enough to see this link has been posted before. Oh well, if people want to believe that they caught a thermal image that happened to look just like Grant so be it.

The guy that created the debunk page was a very big fan of TAPS. He simply felt that Jason and Grant had made a mistake and accidentally captured an image of Grant. He was sincerely trying to help them out, not discredit them in any way.

BTW, the running figure at ESP is definitely a hoax. The only question is who hoaxed it.

Welcome to UM

Nice to have some more common sense around here...

Thanks for the welcome.

I see trying to review TAPS evidence using common sense is like spitting into the wind around here. It's a little like trying to post on the TAPS message boards.

I'm open to any possibitlity but when it's obvious something isn't credible evidence I'm not going to pretend that it is. The people that believe that the image at the Crescent was a ghost and that the figure at ESP was a ghost probably also believe that the ghost Julia pulled the blanket off of Grant's foot.

i remember seeing that when it first was on tv. freaky.

So you result to insulting our intelligence, simply because we come to a differnet conclusion than you did? Sad...




I am seriously considering both sides. Why else would I first find reasons to disagree instead of just disagreeing with the debunkers? I don't just take my ideas out of nowhere. I look at the video, listen to the debunkers explainations, then state problems where I see them.

You see, I've noticed a pattern with debunkers. Most debunkers will scrutinize the claims of the paranormal, but once someone tries to question their explaination, and state problems with it, the debunkers whine... Don't they realize that you need evidence to back up your claims and explainations for a certain phenomena? At least science does it that way...

You'd have to be pretty unintelligent to not expect a reflection from such a reflective surface. IR light is known to reflect off even normal wall paint.

Also i've explained each and everyone of your "problems" with common sense and still you draw the most unusual conclusion. And then you even claim you're beeing scientific! You seem to have everything upside down. Science works from common sense and not some wild belief.

Me nor you is gaining anything from this and in the end i can't be arsed to sit here and try to convert someone who don't even grasp the obvious. You might aswell tell everyone that the keyboard your typing on is the ghost of Hitlers granddad. That is how much nonsense there is to the conclusion you arrive at.

Sad but true.

That's not how it is at all. You're just twisting things now. Have I ever said that if he was in the exact perfect spot, at the exact perfect angle, that there would not be a reflection?



Based on what I quoted above, I'd think it was you who did not grasp the obvious. You do like every other debunker.... Toss in personal attacks to make yourself look better.




No you havn't. You havn't even told me the exact position he was in, which direction the light was going, etc... All we have is the reflection to go buy, and if it looks like Grant is up to personal opinion. It's as simple as that. Stop stating your opinions as fact, then downing on everyone who has a different conclusion than you. Only shows your ignorance.

Yes his position is shown perfectly on the debunk link by looking at the normal camera. You can even see him swining to the IR cam towards the locker.

Now we stop because like i said i can't be arsed to sit here and explain the obvious to you when all you want is to "win the thread".

And stop telling me what to do, if i feel my opinion is a fact as it obviously is then i will damn well use my free will to say so.

Ignorance works both ways.

You're not only ignorant, but arrogent as well. You need to grow up. And yes, I can tell you what to do. As you say "I have free will".


We might as well end this topic... You've ignored some of the points I've made anyway.

The ghost of the St.Augustine Lighthouse is real. It has been there for a very, very long time.
This one is the one that scientists should be studying. No one lives there, the weather is usually good, and the entire building and grounds can easily be covered with a massive amount of tech and security.

i don't know why more people of influence and power don't invest in studying ghosts. i think if we invest billions on finding out what ghosts really are then we can finally put all this to rest. maybe the people of power and influence already know what ghosts are but get a kick out of reading, seeing how foolish people seem while trying to debunck things. eh i dunno what im saying im sleepy.

May be true. But I too wish people would do more funding. We have an extremely interesting and mysterious phenomena on our hands, yet most of the scientific community just shrugs it off.

With good reason too.

Not at all. You'd have to be in denial to shrug off the entire phenomena itself. The only way that we're going to uncover things is if we do it ourselves. Scientists who AREN'T biased are the ones who actually think about looking into Ghosts. Far too many people have experienced a haunting, far too many evps, far too many video captures of things that seem "paranormal", it's just crazy to say it's all a bunch of load. Hell, I've seen a ghost myself. To top it off, 2 people in my family have both experienced a family member call them on the phone AFTER they died.

Sometimes it scares me to think "What if it's all false and there is no life after death", but then I remember all of the things that happen with this phenomena, and I can NOT honestly get myself to believe none of it is true.

For me to deny the existence of ghosts, would be like me denying the existence of airplanes.

What good reason is that?

I'll leave you two topknowlegde scientific investigators with that mysterious puzzle.

No, why not answer us? You must have a REALLY good reason. Let's hear it.

Thats funny...

I would, but then you would just be offended and start calling me names while at the same time telling me to grow up, and then you'd end the discussion by stating ghosts are real because you saw one yourself and you also made a pen fly from one side of your desk to the other. Prooving nothing than your own failure to stay objective of what's going on in your own mind.

i saw the show it sucked

Where have I called you names? I've never said a personal experience proves anything to anyone besides yourself. So please actually read my posts from now on instead of scimming over them.

What I WILL say is that the massive ammounts of reports and experiences by people ALL over the world, from different beliefs, lifestyles, etc... is a pretty good indication of a phenomenon worth looking into.


If ALL of these are mass halucinations, that in itself would be MORE farfetched than the experiences being real. And would need some pretty heavy evidence to back up.

...you don't have a good reason. What a shame.