Recently there has been an upsurge in interest in why nendrathal man died out around 28 to thiryt thousand yrs ago..... one tteory is that his short stature did him and he could not hunt on large open fields but was more geared toward hunting in cold cramped clamates and the weather was changing.. Another theory is that cro-magnum man brought disease to europe and that did neandrathl man in.........he had not been exposed to such previously................Another theory is warfare, yet niether of these theories are proven. What is the best theory?????// also, is it possible that a frozen neandrathal man might be found in siberia or in a cold area of eastern europe that has not been explored yet, like an isolatd cave somehwere..............such has happened with small elephants or bronto- saureses so is it possible for a neandrathal man to be found frozen in time?????????/..........please post any thoughts...................

It is very possible that there could have been a neanderthal frozen away in northern Europe, although the chances of it ever being found or still existing is slim to none.

As for neanderthals, The two predominant theories is that they were quite simply out hunted by modern humans. They couldn't feed themselves once modern humans came into Europe and decimated the population of animals due to thier superior hunting skills and technologies.

Another theory is that the two species actually interbred. That neanderthals and homo sapiens were able to produce a child, and one that was fertile. This theory is actually gaining attention and validity, however it really would only be plausible if the neanderthal population was already almost near extinct.

In my opinion, the neanderthals were out hunted, and eventually interbred with homo sapians, although through the tens of thousands of years that have followed, thier traits have been wiped out.

Good job . Another theory is that they may have warred with each other over hunting grounds and the homo sapiens intrusion on Neanderthal's lands, and were pushed out and out-hunted, and the depleted resources then caused the Neanderthal species to die off. However like King Tomis said, the most popular theory at the time is that the Homo Sapiens species and Neanderthal species interbred.

- Bokonon

They are all plausible, but they both fall under Natural Selection. So really, the theory is Natural Selection.

I mean, well its the umbrella that they fall under. I guess everyone knew that already

Oh and by 'modern human' how far back do you mean? Are you referring to the 'concious' human? If you get what i mean.

I read somewhere that ginger hair is inherited from Neanderthal's

Homo neanderthalensis, or Neanderthal man, became extinct when the Ice Age ended because it was not as adaptable as Homo sapiens sapiens (us). It most likely also had to compete with us for food, so we may have been a contributing factor in its extinction. Also, when the Ice age ended, some its food sources, such as mammoths* became scarce.

*There is evidence that the Neanderthals used fire and spears to drive mammoths over the edge of cliffs.

I think competition with the more intelligent Homosapiens was too much for them and they just died out.

i found the paper i had read on the ginger hair gene, good short article on neanderthal man.


http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/redir?urn=http:...20ginger######hair

If Homo Neanderthalis really was a distinct species, as most paleoanthropologists surmise, then interbreeding with Homo Sapiens would have been impossible.

Sure they would have had inter-species sex, but their offspring would have been infertile like all other inter-species reproduction attempts, i.e. horse+donkey=infertile mule.

That's also why I said it was dependant on whether or not such a union resulted in a fertile offspring.

I know it sounds fishy, but it's what is being taught at universities by the experts. I'm not claiming to understand it, just typing up a baseline of what I was thought on the subject.

Neanderthals were of the same genus, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
a mating would result in fertile offspring similar example would be Wolf x dog.

I know this goes against common sense, and even though one of the definitions of the word "mule" includes "infertile," the fact is not all mules are infertile.

Odd, ain't it?

Anyway, it's perfectly okay to maintain the theory that Humans and Neandertals interbred, but unfortunately there has yet to be any real evidence of this uncovered anywhere. Also, it has been scientifically established in one case where Neandertal mDNA was recovered that there is no maternal link between Neandertals and Humans. If there were, then it would still show in Human mDNA, which is passed to offspring from the maternal side only. The only possibility now is a paternal link, meaning mating could only have occured between Neandertal men and Human women, and not Human men and Neandertal women.

So it's unlikely in the extreme that interbreeding and assimilation can in any way account for the extinction of the Neandertal. Mitochondrial DNA passed to any hybrid from a Neandertal mother would exist today in our gene pool. This mDNA would be passed to subsequent offspring from any Neandertal-Human hybrid mother as well, meaning that if hybridization had occurred to any large extent at all, then no breeding between Human males and Neandertal women, or even between human males (or hybrid males) and Neandertal-Human hybrid women that were the offspring of, or descended from, Human males with Neandertal women (or hybrids) ever occurred (first, second, third, fourth or any other subsequent generation removed from the original hybridization).

Not likely.

Harte

http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/neanderkid.html



Come more if your interested.

http://record.wustl.edu/archive/1999/04-29...eanderthal.html
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neanderthal.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/323657.stm

Add this to the list: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/13/7117

Anthropologists from the American Museum of Natural History and University of Pittsburgh say it's not a hybrid, or even Neanderthal.

Side note: it's spelt Neader-TAL not -thal. It's german. german spellings were updated a while ago, and the english language has been slow to catch up.

Ok I'm not very knowledgeable on DNA or anything so don't knock me if some of my views are incorrect.

I do believe that we are descendents of Neanderthals. I think as the climate changed & the Ice Age ended, it caused drastic changes! Meaning the Neanderthals basically transformed into the Cro Magnons to adapt to the new climate changes. The change was probably so dramtic that the dna probably changed so much that it can't match the Cro Magnons.

I don't know if that makes sense but I just had a theory.

Homo sapiens neandertalensis lived in Europe and the Mideast between 150,000 and 28,000 years ago. Neandertals coexisted with H.sapiens (archaic) and early H.sapiens sapiens.

It is not known whether he was of the same species and disappeared into the H.sapiens sapiens gene pool or he may have been crowded out of existence (killed off) by the H.sapien sapien.

Recent DNA studies have indicated that the neandertal was an entirely different species and did not merge into the H. sapiens sapiens gene pool. These studies refer to MtDNA analysis done on two Cro-Magnons that were 23,000 and 25,000 years old respectively, four Neandertal specimens, 29,000 to 42,000 years old, and a large database of modern human mtDNA. The results demonstrate that Neandertals didn't contribute to our gene pool.

Brain sizes averaged larger than modern man at about 1450cc but the head was shaped differently, being longer and lower than modern man. It has been demonstrated that they were as creative and intelligent as Homo Sapiene Sapiens (if not more so) and that their hunting skills were on par with cro-magnons.

Their noses were large and were different from modern man in structure. They were massive men at about 5'6" tall with extremely heavy skeletons that showed attachments for massive muscles. They were far stronger than modern man. Their jaws were massive and had receding foreheads, like erectus.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...ertalDNA_2.html

At this time nuclear DNA has been extracted from a 45,000 year old Neandertal and is being tested for similarities to rule out completely the possibility that they are our ancestors. It is theorised that the common ancestor to both Neandertal and Cro-magnon man lived around 350,000 years ago.

There is much to be said about NUCLEAR and Mt DNA Analysis done on fossils of any kind. The older the sample the more difficult it is to get conclusive results and any samples over 100,000 years old are pretty much useless as for as modern techniques go no matter what state of conservation they were found in. The most accurate results are from specimens up to a limit of 50,000 years.

Very interested to read about the DNA evidence. The last i had read, the debate was still open, but that was before definitive DNA analysis was available.The Neandertals may have died out without warfare or even direct competition with homosapiens. They had a number of strikes against them. They were however definitely human. They buried their dead with flowers and artifact, indicating a spiritual /religious belief system which defines humanity.The Neandertals had a small population base which may not have been genetically diverse enough to ensure their survival.They lived in one of the most environmentally challenging time humans have had to live through. Their home range was small and limited to mountainous areas which were most adversely affected by the cold climate. Nonetheless, they employed technology to adapt to the climate, sewing warm clothes and tents for protection. However, perhaps the most telling fact that limited their survival was their very nature. They were strong and robust while homosapiens were more gracile. Thus while neandertals might have been able to throw a spear further they may not have been able to utilise a bow and arrows. Thus if hunting the same food sources in a limited habitat Neandertals may have had real difficulty competing.
While the spelling Neandertals (people from the neander river valley in germany) was officially adopted by many text books, particularly European ones, quite a while ago, many American texts still seem to use theold spelling. I had just put this down as another example of funny American spelling.

I went to college with Neanderthal Man.

I'm not kidding. This guy was short, had squat legs, long torso, long arms, thick brow ridge, small beady eyes, wide mouth with protruding lips, broad nose, very coarse hair. He was one of the brightest students in the Math department.

So, what happened to Neanderthal Man?

Last I heard he's working for the U.S. Treasury Department.

I am really not kidding, that is what this guy looked like.

I wonder if Neandertal man will survive the competition from sensitive new age man.

I'm sure he'll survive that and much more

As for the Neandertal man actually having become extinct that may or may not be true!

There are rumours that if not him, then maybe a similar type of sapient form of man besides Homo Sapiens Sapiens may still be alive in remote areas of the world.

We would call these men "Bigfoot", "Sasquatch" or "Yeti".

, enjoy!!

There was a crazy good show on the history channel about evolution, and how there were many different species but eventually died off.

I think due to the fact that they (Neandertals) were smaller in number and had shorter life spans (I believe this is true, though I'm no expert), that that was the reason for dying out. Neandertal man is something that I really enjoy learning about.

On a side note: Has anyone read the Earth's Children series of books by Jean M. Auel? The first in the series is Clan of the Cave Bear (there was a movie made in 1980 starring Darryl Hannah, which was based on the book). It's about a Cro Magnon child who was raised by a clan of Neandertals. VERY good reading for anyone who is into that sort of thing.

I read the whole series, but I've since learned that there are many inconsistancies in the presentation of her storyline, relating to neandertals, but I suppose poetic licence is acceptable in fiction.

I personally believe that they were killed off as Homo Sapiens expanded into their domains. Not only did Homo Sapiens have more children on average than Homo Neandrtalis but there was also an aversion and an instant dislike (racism) on the part of Homo Sapiens.

Mans' inherent nature is to fear what he doesn't understand and the 1st action of fear is to strike before being struck. Nothing in that nature has changed for these many thousands of years. So how would you react on seeing the equivalent of Homo Neandertalis suddenly in front of you?

Would you be pleasanly surprised and then say" Hello"?

There was no mixing of the 2 species (I believe) for this very same reason.

they have been showing the history of man the last two weekends on the discovery channel.
you should check that out,it's very educational!

Yeah, but I'm sure Discovery channel has a different channels all over the world. Is the USA DC the same as the European one?

I always thought that if Bigfoot were real & that if people do witness these things, maybe they're remaining Neanderthals. Maybe they're just smart enough to hide from us now! I know this theory sounds stupid..

I could say yes it's true but I'd be lying. Neandertal man is extinct. That bigfoot exists is very likely. As much of the world where modern man lives is in coastal areas, the truly empty areas of our world still hold a great many suprises.

I would think that these beings hold us in great contempt and fear as well. I wouldn't say they are smarter, but they not dumber either.

As for what they are, I believe them to be a differnt type of hominid of the Homo line but that has lived and continues to live in parallel with Homo Sapiens amd Homo Neandertalis until Neandertalis became extinct.

There were many different types of man just as there are different types of the same animal. What the scientists refuse to believe, is that instead of one evolving into the other, as they say, they all lived at the same time and have done so for maybe milions of years. Now, we only have maybe 2 or 3 types left and Homo Sapiens is one of them.