Do You believe that J.Edgar Hoover and the FBI were involved in the assassinations of John and Bobby Kennedy as well as Martin Luther King? I think it's very possible since JEH held tremendous hatred toward the Kennedy's and MLK. I've also ready theories about CIA involvement the the assassinations of John and Bobby Kennedy as well as Malcolm X. What do Y'all think?

I think JFK was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, who was a self-obsessed lunatic who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I prefer not to believe. I prefer to know something.
It is very easy to read the various complex conspiracy theories that have evolved in the JFK assassination case, and come away thinking that the CIA or the Mafia was involved. I have seen nothing to indicate that either organization was definitively complicit in the murder of the President. There's alot that's been put forth to suggest that it was a possibility, but no tacit proof has ever been uncovered.

Nonetheless, there is ample suggestion that something is amiss in this case. It comes from some rather basic things that can be substantiated, and have been.

These things involve contradiction in the medical evidence that's been presented by people who observed first hand what occurred. These contradictions have been graphic enough to mandate a congressional investigation in the 1970s (which concluded that a conspiracy probably occurred, but could not pin it on any given group...although they attempted to implicate organized crime)), and more recently, the ARRB hearings, which clarified nothing but the gross inconsistencies that exist.

In my opinion, the foresnsic "evidence" when compared to the sworn testimony of experienced physicians who attempted to treat the President (from perhaps the premier trauma emergency room in the United States at the time (Parkland Hospital in Dallas)), is so blatantly contradictory in several areas, and (if one is adept at reading an autopsy protocol and understand what sort of procedures, photographs and x-rays are used in a medical-legal autopsy) the quality of description and information available regarding that autopsy is of such poor quality...that I think an exumation and forensic examination of the remains of JFK was warranted a couple decades ago...so qualified forensic pathologists could examine the remains and actually confirm or refute the conclusions of the prosectors who actually did the autopsy.

Based on medical evidence alone, this case is unresolved.


However, as far as Lee Oswald, the Mafia, the CIA, or any other potential responsible party or parties are concerned, I don't think that even a thorough and authentic forensic examination is going to prove anything, save where the President was shot, how many times, and from which directions. If there's more than one trajectory, then we will know that there was more than one shooter. I think that a likely result, but as to who they might have been, and if Lee Oswald was actually one of them, will probably never be known.

The only possible result will be to establish once and for all, a conspiracy, or a single shooter. But the participant, or participants in this event will not be derived from that sort of examination.

You mentioned Bob Kennedy.

Well, there's no evidence to indicate FBI or CIA involvement there either.

However, that is one of the true travesties in American history.
You see, a real, qualified forensic pathologist did his autopsy. One of the premier forensic specialists in the country, in fact. His examination, and its conclusions are available for anyone to see.

John Kennedy's body was removed (illegally, I might add) from the sole jurisdication which had the legal authority to do a medical-legal autopsy (Dallas County, Texas), and which had a qualified medical examiner. Bob Kennedy's body was not removed. His autopsy was performed in the jurisdication which held responsibility, by a qualified medical examiner.


That autopsy conclusively proved that Bob Kennedy was shot several times, from behind, the fatal bullet entering behind his right ear, being fired from a distance of mere inches.

Yet, the majority of Americans "believe" that Sirhan Sirhan, still jailed, was the murderer of Bob Kennedy.

Should this man be in jail? Of course, for the rest of his life. He was there, he fired his gun, he was a conspirator, an accessory to murder. However, he is not the man who actually killed Bob Kennedy. This is an established fact. Why? Because he was in front of Senator Kennedy, and Senator Kennedy was shot from behind. This is incontrovertible, established scientific fact.

Few people know how many other people were wounded in that barage, and few people realize that over a dozen bullets were recovered from the walls, door frames, and ceiling of that kitchen in the Ambassador Hotel.


Does this smell funny?

Of course it does.

Does it prove CIA, FBI, or Mafia involvement? No.

These things happened 43, and 38 years ago respectively. Then principals are all pretty much gone. We don't really know about Jack Kennedy's murder. We do know about Bobby's. As to who was behind it: that will likely never be known.

As G. Robert Blakey and Richard N. Billings wrote in the last sentence of The Plot To Kill The President (a discussion of the House Select Committee's investigation into JFKs assassination), quoting Chaucer...

Murder will out.

I can tell you what CIA Director Richard Helms told me. I ran a Mensa research group about the JFK assassination back in the 1990's. Helms told me that persons involved with the CIA and the Watergate Burglary killed JFK. He would know better than I.

your talking about e howard hunt and co.they were known as the plumbers.
because they were there to prevent leaks.but plumbers can clear a blockage too.
and kennedy was blocking up alot of stuff.
he was killing off the cia.
he was anti war.
he was against isreals nuclear program.(which annoyed ben gurion no end)
he f***ed the cia in the bay of pigs.
he just made too many enemies, politcal leaders are supposed to be obedient to the puppet master he made the mistake of thinking he was pinnochio.


(and hunt has been tied in with bush senior too)

when watergate happened its a fact that nixon told them that
the "whole bay of pigs thing would get out"
i personaly think that kennedy upset too many people and that made the ground fertile for his murder.
and his death was like a massive weight from those powerful peoples heads.
thats why there was not too many top end people in america at that time kicking up the dust.it suited them.

AND HELMS HIMSELF PROBABLY TOO

i second that

Hey that was some of the best subtle sarcasm I've ever read.

i posted on this topic a couple of days ago, don't know why it never made it here. anyways, Yes, the CIA did it, and they also murdered marilyn monroe, john lennon--(this was exposed by the new york times), and bob marley, why because these people had a great influence over people, a good influence, something the government...the CIA couldn't let happen anymore.

What about Elvis, please dont tell me that the King ended up "in the toilet" on his own, like the official story stated.

No, Elvis is CIA. As well as Jim Morrison. You really need to re-up your subscription to The Lunatic Times.

whatever with your sarcastic remarks. elvis is dead,so is janis joplin, and jimi hendrix,unfortunaltly. jim morrison's dad was a high ranking military official, with his help, jim was able to "dissapear".....fake his own death. his whole life was crashing down around him and needed out. he couldn't take a chance to tell anyone at all, not even pam.
This is just my own opinion, and everybody has the right to their opinion, so please don't get wierd with me.

jesus how did we get here?
look at the original thread, its about jfk and hoover and the cia.
not about cheese burgers and heroin addicts...jeeez

JFK was a very dangerous man He never had a chance don't think so listen to this mans words....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=17...ecret+societies

CIA gets the blame for everything! and I mean.. everything.

I see you've missed out -JFK was gonna reveal the truth about Aliens? OH no it'd too far out for you leftie conspiracy theorists

Not to sound rude, but from the way you write, I'm guessing you're pretty young. When I was young, I believe in all sorts of crazy things. I even read a book about the CIA's "hit" on JFK and completely bought into it pretty much because I wanted to. Conspiracy theories are the "Whodunits" of our age, and they can be pretty interesting to contemplate.

However, after some time and actually looking at the evidence, I came to the conclusion that everything seems to point to Oswald being the lone assassin (MID would disagree).

I guess my advice to you (take it or leave it) is try to look at all the sides of the story, and not just at what one person is telling you.

Lonegunman huh ..You are so naive how can you believe that the kill shot came from the back you have no idea what kinds of powers are controling you .You know what's interesting about assassination....did you ever stop to think about the people we kill? It's always those who tell us to live together in harmony and try to love one another. Jesus, Gandhi, Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Malcolm X, John Lennon. They all said live together in harmony... BAM! Right in the head. Apparently we aren't ready for that yet.

im not even gonna try and inform you.
i know a rocking horse when i see one.
so sorry hill billy (try someone else)

Alright then. Care to bring some facts to the table or do you wish to continue hiding behind horrible grammar and unwarranted insults?

how about a video ....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...+film&hl=en

Tell me that shot came from the back , try thinking for yourself not what the warrent commission would like you to believe.

JFK

I have seen the only photo taken of the 'grassy knoll' and after close examination i have concluded that someone was hiding behind the fence though after being zoomed up it is not that clear. Oswald was als present in photos of the book depository as well.

What makes me question the validity of the story is the fact Oswald himself was shot and killed by Jack Ruby before he had a chance to talk. Although Oswald did say he did not kill JFK it didn't hold much water with the public.

RFK

If anyone fits the profile of a 'manchurian candidate' it was this guy. People who were present at the scene had said he was disorientated and unaware of where he was. Essentially he could not remember where he was or what he had done. Sihran B. givin the evidence certainly seemed if he was in a trance like state. Whether or not it was drug induced is heresay. Geroge Plimpton who was there and had helped subdue Sihran with 3 others also had said he was in a dream like state and calm dispite all the confusion.

MLK

I am not to sure about this one personally...

At the time there was a lot of racial tension between the white and black communities and it is most likely a racial crime.

Lennon

Government assassination does not make sense as he was already washed up by this point. The peace movement had ended and Lennons fame among the youth had faded out by the 80's. I beleive his assassination was just the result of a crazy who read the Catcher in the Rye a little to often.

I can't get to google video or youtube from here, but I'm guessing from the description that it's the Zapruder film. Did you honestly think that was going to silence me, as if I've never seen it before?

When a person gets shot, the entrance wound is small and the exit wound is much bigger. In the film, we obviously see a huge wound suddenly appear on the front/right portion of Kennedy's head, which can only mean the bullet came from the back.



K. Just did.



It's the "Warren Commission".

We can either have a civil debate about this or we can just trade snide comments back and forth. Your call. Frankly, I'm not feeling too threatened in either capacity at this point.

For what it's worth, I advise you to heed your own advice. Don't just trust the opinion of one source - formulate your opinion after looking at all the facts.

this is an unwarranted insult is it not?
its true that many people have plenty of grammer mistakes but thats just cheap tp point it out.
the single bullet theory is very difficult for any common sense person to swallow.
myself ?
i believe that it may have been possibe after watching certain scientific evidence .
namley that the trajectory of the bullet makes more sense if you take into account that the front seat is lower then the back move the car a few inches here or there and position the people in the exact posture and does seem possible.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2.htm
but theres still many serious and unusual things that proove that a conspiracy was in place.
you are free to ridicule other peoples natural curiosity, and to stay in the comfort of the warm bubble of sceptism but thats what freedom is all about.
freedom of thought,speech,expression, and of alternative ideas.
open up your own mind b4 u shoot down others.
your not always right,
your not always wrong.

Hillary R. Clinton was on that commission.
There have been rumors that her former law firm has mob connections.
There are also rumors that the Clintons are connected to many unusual deaths.

no surprises angelique.
this is the reason there are so many conspiracys in the world these people are just soooooooooooo corrupt.
that noone can trust a word they say.
90% of the time

I got rather pickled from him calling me "naive" and not having any idea what powers are "controling" me, so I believe my two-worded shot at his lack of grammar skills was warranted. If you're trying to present that you know something I don't, at least try to make yourself sound relatively intelligent. I guess that's all I ask.



You spelled grammar wrong.



Agreed. This is something most believers in the Kennedy assassination conspiracy choose not to be aware of - the position of the occupants of the vehicle.



Thanks. And, I don't believe that one arrives at a conspiracy theory due to "natural curiosity". I think they see an opinion of a person and choose to believe in it.



Wonderful speech, but don't forget you're also assuming you know a lot about me as well. I said before that I have in the past believed in this theory, so I guess you can't consider me a person who refuses to look at both sides, huh? I would think that would qualify me as open-minded, no?

Wow.

Are you actually suggesting that Hillary Clinton was on the Warren Commission?

FYI, the Warren Commission was formed in 1963, and Hillary Clinton was born in 1947. That would make her 16 years old when the commission was formed.

More FYI - Gerald Ford is the only surviving member of the Warren Commission.

Forgive me, but you really should've been surprised to learn that a 16 year old schoolgirl was appointed to a commission to invesigate how President Kennedy was assassinated.

no ill leave that to you im REALLY trying to understand what happened.
yeah whatever


errr yeah this is why i added this link...its to show that the magic bullet theory really has been proven(to my satisfaction at least)

well im afraid that your wrong here where im concerned, i dont think i need to be told any ones opinion to question my own senses. not a speech just a statement about peoples learning for themselves...without bigheads pushing them down.

as i said your not always right and not always wrong..
it was a general statement about all people.
this forums full of people who just wanna go ct bashing ..and con theorists who wont accept anything as truth.
and in these information crusades the point more often then not gets lost.
i just wanna keep things focused thats all.
you are free to accept my regret at any unintentional distress you may have incured during this communication.
p.s..and forgive any grammer mistakes
thanx

It was a joke, man. Lighten up.

Beyond that, if you want to get into some actual issues with the JFK assassination here with me, by all means.

ok let me ask you if your absolutly happy with all the evidence and missing evidence and stuff that prompts most of theories in volved in this case?
like lets 4get the magic bulls*** story and assume that oswald acted alone.
does nothing else strike u as strange here?
hope fully this will continue as a decent discussion.

You know I won't be able to answer that without some specifics. What bothers you about the evidence? What's missing? What's fishy?

I don't see how it would've been impossible or even unlikely that he acted alone.

you think that evidence like his brain going missing isnt fishy?
ive said lets assume that he acted alone didnt i?
you really dont care about the fact that he wasnt arrested by the fbi and charged with treason and spying?
or that he worked for guy bannister?
that he knew clay shaw who it was admitted was a cia operative?
even if thats just all a coincidence, you dont think thats enough to shake peoples curiosity?

Sweet.

Just a question here guys. It was said because Jim Morrison, Bob Marley etc... could reach the masses, they were killed. I was just wondering is it still going on today? Can you give examples?

i for one dont think they were rubbed out but i know that its been said that john lennon for example was killed by a mancurian candidate.
and the fact that he didnt get the death sentence or that he get very good treatment in prison is cited as proof that the government are "looking after their boy"
also that bob marley was given cancer of the toe which killed him very very fast indeed.
its said that it was administered by some kind of device in his shoe.
like i said i dont believe it but you never know.
(but the real topic on this thread was originally the jfk thing youd have to ask whoever brought that topic into it)

John Lennon as I had mentioned before had lost his influence with younger folk. The time he was killed just doesn't fit the conspiracy. If he was assassinated it should have been when he went on his 'world peace' shtick. Instead he was killed after this when his stardom was fading out and nearly gone. Why kill a guy who isn't really doing anything besides sitting around his house getting stoned with his freaky asian wife.

now this is gonna sound like i do think he was killed by cia govt etc..
I DONT!!!
but if you consider how much trouble he caused them during the vietnam war and all through that peace movement thing its not out of this world to assume he made some people very very angry.
there was no way that was gonna be done with all those spotlights and eyes on him.
a nutter killed ghandi,lennon,kennedy,martin luther king.
all nutters, i agree.
but its all in the governments interest.
i agree with u on the freaky asian wife though

Ok I'll admit my grammer isn't the best but I have eyes and I know a coverup when I see one .During the trial of Clay Shaw look at all the witnesses that mysteriously got wacked during that investigation. Just like 911 know wants to believe the cold hard truth we are being lead by our corporate masters the quicker we realize this as a nation the quicker we can correct the problem....And do you think it's just fate that the bones they found just recently at the wtc just happened to be the bones of the pilot ....Pleeeeeeeeeeese give me a break, talk about a plant of evidence ....how convenient ......

It's a bit strange, but I don't see how a missing brain = conspiracy, especially when we have the Zapruder film and various photographs taken at the instant the shot struck JFK's head.



Who, Oswald? He wan't arrested by the FBI because back in the early 60's, killing the president wasn't a federal crime. It fell under the jurisdiction of local authorities.

Why would he be charged with spying? Because he went to Russia? He went to Russia to get fame. He figured the fact that he was American would be enough to garner fame among the Russian people. That didn't work, and so he figured the exact same thing would happen once he landed back in America. He thought he would be greeted by reporters at the airport, but that didn't happen. Oswald was hellbent on getting national attention of any sort, and didn't care if it was negative.



The closest link Oswald had to Banister was the address on the Fair Play for Cuba leaflets he handed out, which were printed by the Cuban Revolutionary Council, which happened to be in the same office building as Banister's detective agency.

To say Oswald "worked for" Banister would a stretch, to say the least.



Do you have any "evidence" other than that which has been provided by Oliver Stone's FICTIONAL movie?



1. No coincidence has even been presented

2. You need a hell of a lot more than weak ties or unproven evidence to prove that JFK was murdered via conspiracy. You need some hard evidence.

your arguements logical and is very straight forward.

DAMN YOU!!!

John Lennon and his wife Yoko had just returned home from the recording studio, they were working on the Double Fantasy album. Everybody knows that when Lennon talks everybody listens, he was a "peace monger". The government...the CIA, wasn't going to have any of that "Give Peace A Chance" talk this time around, especially from someone that has already proven to be a positive influence to millions of people. The government...the CIA, was in no way going to take that chance, so they got rid of Lennon.
Mark David Chapman, a trained, operational sniper for the military,was hired to get rid of the "thorn in their side"...Lennon.
Chapman IS NOT and has never been in a prison. He was placed in a Mental Hospital, because of the temporary insanity verdict. He gets to come and go as he pleases, why?
because he isn't really a patient there, it's just a cover-up. Chapman and his family will be taken care of for life "tax payers money", and the mental hospital recieves compensation for their part in this in the form of (annonymas donations). The government kinows how to cover their butt very well thank you. He has gotten married, has a kid, he goes out on shopping sprees, eats in the best restuarants, gets whatever he wants for the rest of his life, he's protected by the secret service. It's his "payment" for his role in government's
murder cover-up of John Lennon.
I don't care if any of you don't believe me, but it's true, sad, but true.

Hey seriously dude i believe that CIA has been involved in some cover ups but they can't have killed all the ppl that u r suggesting... that's just way 2 crazy!! I mean come on the CIA is meant to protect America...not destroy it.

The CIA has many roles, the ones they want the public too see, then they have their hidden agendas. They can take out anyone they want and get away with it. They've got their dirty little fingers in all sorts of illegal junk. It's called Power, and they don't give a damn about any of us...the American public. If something were to happen like a nuclear bomb, or some kind of other catastrophie that could wipe out most of the people on our side of the world, where do you think our"leaders" and the top people from those government agencies would go? The same place Cheney goes when nobody can "find" him, haven't you ever heard Bush say that on tv? It's an underground "city" that was built to protect those people, our wonderful government officials and agencies, not us, the people They are supposed to protect from something like that. Us regular people are
just s___ out of luck. This underground city has been discussed on national tv by white house correspondents,and in large national news papers.
Don't under estimate the power of the government and their agencies. and yes they did take out all of those people, and many more that we aren't aware of yet.

oswald had to have help,the man was dumber than a bag of hammers.
more than likely,it was the chicago mob retaliating after after the kennedy boys basically bent them over a barrell.rfk is another story.as for lennon's killer not getting the death penalty
it had not yet been reinstated in 1980 when he killed lennon.
and if you knew john lennon at all just through his music and his
anti war stances,you'd know that would be the last thing he would want!