It seems to me that some people are venting their frustration at the current government through the creation of conspiracy theories. Its weird to me because on the one hand we have all these conspiracy theories and then on the other we have the "accepted government theory" which as it time marches on, continues to be supported by things that are happening as would be expected if the government theory is true. Examples being government screw ups, the lawsuits from the workers who were part of the clean up, and today finding more remains of people around ground zero.

I have from the start been curious to understand why people believe so strongly that 9-11 was orchestrated by the government. I have listened to what people have presented in their theories and was curiously expecting a lot more proof. I have noticed that those presenting the conspiracy theory, hold those who debunk it to a higher standard of proof than they do themselves. For example, they want specifics and motives but offer none to support their own theories. They want logic but skip over logic when presenting their theory. Examples being why the insurance agencies are not grabbing hold of this full force and fighting to get their money back.

So all this aside. Completely aside and no debating please, could some of you conspiracy theorist humor me for a moment and just explain your GUT feeling as to why you believe these theories to be true. You don't need to back up anything at all. Just explain your feelings and beliefs that cause you to believe that this was a conspiracy. Just tell it from the heart.

I'd also like to ask others not to slam people for their honesty or condemn them if you disagree. I would hope this would be an engaging and interesting conversation.

I don't believe the gov.t is guilty of anything but procrastinating but I'd like to say this:
.....911 was such a devastating blow to U.S (the nerve of such attack by whom and amount of deaths involved) & Considering our gov.t hasn't been so honest in the past, but rather wicked- Its' motives have costed many lives. It's safe to assume, I guess, that some folks would suspect the gov.t being guilty of this. Its' power certainly hasn't decreased with time. But, this whole notion that the gov.t was involved in 911 doesn't add up in the least bit. Nor, have I found anything that w/could directly relate them as being involved.
Something that disturbs me-- do they really have enough proof to hang the gov.t of this crime? If not, is it really worth putting time and effort on its' conviction when {JUST POSSIBLY} the real perpetrators are still out there, and even now a bigger threat?
CTs, what if you are wrong?

ok... you guys really want to know what happened n 9/11 ill tell you....Muslims attacked us!!! deal with it, there was no conspracy

Try actually reading the title of the thread and the original post before replying.

I think people want to believe in these theories out of hatred for the president and the current state of our corrupt government. I believe they think that if they were to abandon their theories, they would be siding with Bush, and that's very troublesome for them.

I wish they could understand that it's entirely possible to be disgusted with our government and not actually believe they carried out 9/11 at the same time. Millions of us do.

I am thinking along the same lines. But I am curious as to why THIS government is so particularly hateful to people. Bush certainly is not the worst president we have had in history no matter how people paint him. On top of this during his presidency he has had to handle many more things that other presidents have not. He's no FDR but at the same time, who is these days?

What makes me curious about the gut feelings is also to know who those who hate this government so much would replace them with.

I thought of something curious today about Hilary Clinton. That is, if she runs and wins it will be a strange time in history and the closest this governement has ever been to a Monarchy than ever. Going from one president and his son to another president and his wife. Just really creepy in my opinion.

I'd like to know from the CT's who they would like to see in office. Is there any way to take away this gut fear and anger?

You say this so well, I had to repost it.

Without any cynicsm involved at all, I think this thread is great idea, truethat.

I have asked myself this many times. I just really can't understand it. The evidence against a conspiracy is so overwhelming, from the point of view of common sense alone. The tenacity of CT's just baffles me. On the face of it, wouldn't a conspiracy be "emotionally" much harder to handle? After all, for Americans it would mean that their own government has betrayed them. Wouldn't they be relieved somehow to be proven wrong? So I am genuinely interested in the answers; I'd like to understand.

Although this sounds a bit twisted, could it be that for some, on a subconscious level, a conspiracy of their own government is easier to accept than their country's vulnerability & powerlessness towards foreign terrorists? A conspiracy would signify that the U.S. are still in control, albeit in a horrible, dark way, and the lesser evil than being at the mercy of a small group of thugs?

I like South Park's idea of it all. Our gov't planted various sites and info to make the non-believers think that THEY were behind it. Control through fear. Hah. Okay, the episode was funnier than I just portrayed it....Sorry...I give...MEH

I'm sorry but that has got to be one of the more ignorant statements I've ever heard. Why do we want it to be a conspiracy? Uh are you kidding me? Yea we definately want to find out that our government actually lied about 9/11 and not only that but carried it out. Yea we really want something like that because there isn't anything better to do, right. It is not a subject to be taken lightly and the vast amount of evidence makes it overwhelmingly obvious that 9/11 is infact a conspiracy and certainly not because I want to be but simply because it is.

I mean this is getting ridiculous because of how blatantly obvious of a conspiracy 9/11 is. It's so damn obvious to the point where I think that if you still claim to believe the main stream story of 9/11 you are either in serious denial or you are infact purposly helping to cover it up. Our government murders it's own citizens all the time through many different methods and it slips under everyones radars because they are so brain washed and controlled(psst all you skeptics on here) that they either don't care at all or even go so far as to fight for the very system that controls them. The ultimate irony indeed and while it seems funny it's actually really sad.

I think you been listening to charlie sheen a little to much . Prove to me where any conspiricy took place other than what the bush hateing media has planted into your minds.

Actually the media is just as much a part of the conspiracy as the Bush administration. 9/11 was carried out by out government along with Israel and infact since our government is under the control of Israel and their media/banking empire it could be said that 9/11 was probably 99% for Israel. Like I said, if you haven't seen this already you're just a complete mess and there is probably next to no hope for you but hey maybe you'll stop letting your pride blind you into complete ignorance and you'll actually listen and take the issue seriously which everyone should considering what the implications of such an immense claim.

Our government is under Israel`s control? I think its the other way around and so dosnt the rest of the world,,why do you think they hate Americans so much? They hate jews because theyr jews ,,they hate us because we have more influence over world matters than they do .Nobody takes sh** in this world unless we say its ok.

I assume this thread refers to a "US Government" conspiracy. Since even the "official" account claims that 9/11 was a conspiracy - of Muslim terrorists.

With that assumption, I'll answer the question in the thread title - I absolutely don't "want" 9/11 to be a (US Government) conspiracy. I mean, who would want their own gov't to be capable of hurting or killing them?

And it's certainly not easier to think or believe this is or could be true. Life is undoubtedly better without this kind of stress to concern you 24/7. To believe in this conspiracy if you saw nothing to really support it seems quite masochistic, or crazy! Unless you did so out of personal hatred for Bush or the Republicans, which I see as ridiculous reasons..

I don't think any more of the Dems than the Reps. 9/11 is completely beyond such bogus, superficial and quite illusory "opposition" camps.

It comes down to only one thing - the truth. The truth must be established with valid, convincing evidence.

Do you think the evidence is so solid for the official story that you are convinced it is the truth?

I believe the evidence to support it is so flimsy it would be laughed at and thrown out of any unbiased and just court of law. The Government "evidence" is utterly ridiculous.

The evidence that the Gov't was involved, however, is overwhelming, as I see it. Despite the fact they have withheld most of it to this day.

What happens if the guilty party controls all the evidence of the crime that they themselves committed? You wouldn't believe a word they say, would you? Unless you don't even suspect they were guilty of the crime to begin with! But people who have nothing to hide don't act like this....

1. If you were innocent, would you try really hard to avoid a full and immediate investigation into the crime?

2. a-) If you were innocent, would you not first consider that any person or group
may have been involved in the crime? To wit..

b-) If you were innocent, would you start an investigation (that you vehemently opposed
the formation of) with an already complete and unwavering belief in who was
involved?

3. If you were innocent, would you make sure the investigation was not independent, by appointing only the people who believed the "official" story to begin with?

4. If you were innocent, would you destroy evidence (commiting a criminal act in itself)?

5. If you were innocent, would you confiscate and withhold evidence?

6. If you were innocent, would you fabricate or alter evidence?

7. If you were innocent, would your recollection of the events keep changing because they don't fit in with the known facts?

8. If you were innocent, would you claim to know beyond a shadow of a doubt each and every person who was involved, within a day or two of the crime itself - yet do not show any valid evidence to prove it?

Of course, these points mostly go toward suspicious behavior. Very suspicious, indeed, but not proof of guilt.

The main body of evidence lies within the collapses and other issues.

You made some very good points Turbonium.I really don,t want a US government conspiracy either.But it seems that they knew it was gonna happen beforehand,and did nothing to stop it.that seems like a conspiracy to keep from preventing a conspiracy.

We had been warned for years that terrorist could possibly attack us. So yes maybe it dose seem like we knew a head of time but its really more like we were waiting to react.
Im sure any intel we got pre-9/11 would have only suggested a small terrorist plot such as a carbomb or a shop bombing and i think thats all the US was prepared for.But i dont think in our wildest nightmare`s did we think they could make such a massive strike on us as to kill 3000 people in our own country and destroy the towers and try to take out the pentagon all in 1 shot. So we were in such shock that it looked like we did nothing but in all reality i think that being so unprepaired has now become a ''it must be a conspiracy'' thing.
Of course this is just my opinion and may not be worth much to most of you . hehe

When I say "want" I mean it. And I don't mean it in an ignorant way. I am not posting this stuff to be hurtful or sarcastic.

It does come across to me that people WANT this to be true.

Lets just pause for a second and say YES many many things DON'T add up in the government theory.

Many many things however don't add up in the CT theory.

The reason I say WANT this theory to be true is that the CT's haven't said, (as I have seen many many people who argue with CT's say including myself) that something is not adding up here and we need to investigate it further.

Rather they say THEIR theory is what really happened.

And to me I seem mountains of evidence that support the fact that while their premise might be right, their conclusions are wrong.

If you really wanted to get to the facts, why cling to a CT theory full of holes? Why not start over with your ideas.

That's why you come across to me as WANTING the theory to be true.

Why must it be THIS THEORY?

Does that make sense?

Good post. The whole problem for me is that for five years I refused to even look at this subject as a 'conspiracy theory', the thought that given time the answers would be forthcoming and the acceptance of the attacks as being as they were portrayed led a lot of people to not even look at this subject. The conspiracy here is on the official side of the argument which fails to resolve issues and does not even pass a high school physics level of scrutiny. People looking for answers draw their own conclusions in the face of this flawed conclusion that has been promoted as fact. This is wrong, this is not a conspiracy theory, it is an unsolved crime, no one has been charged or convicted of this attack. The only solution is an independent investigation with legal powers, something that seems impossible to someone from outside the USA looking in.

I absolutely believe we need to investigate it further. Because I don't think we DO know exactly what happened. Who were the actual perpetrators / accomplices / people who knew beforehand?

I think you may be misinterpreting what many who doubt the official story really DO "want". Speaking for myself, I simply want the truth - the facts - all the evidence - and wherever that leads us, so be it.

It does NOT have to be "this theory", as you call it.

I am - at this time - firmly convinced that the US Gov't was involved in 9/11. But if the trail of evidence were to somehow end up veering off in an entirely different direction, then I would (or will) have no problems in re-assessing my position. And as I said before, I would certainly prefer such a scenario. But I can't simply ignore what the evidence tells me right now, and act like an ostrich with its head buried in the ground.

You say the premise may be right - do you mean the idea that the Government was involved in 9/11?

You also say the conclusions are wrong - but wouldn't that be the same claim as the premise?

It seems you have your own doubts and questions about 9/11, too. We have to be honest with ourselves before we can move forward in our search for the truth.

You know, I find that the biggest hurdle for many people is the very idea that their own Government would ever conspire on such a grand scale against them. My own mother believes that JFK was murdered in a conspiracy. But when I asked her about 9/11, she said "I just can't see them killing thousands of people like that." In other words, she can accept the murder of one man - the President - in a conspiracy. But with 9/11, despite seeing so many things that disprove the official story, she pauses and says "I just can't get my head around it."

Hitler knew this was the perfect tool of propaganda. He wrote about it in "Mein Kampf"...

All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes. ...

No I think that most CT's use this as a thing to fling in people's faces who are arguing with them. Very much like Jack Nicholson's line "You can't handle the truth"

bulls***. People totally can handle the idea that their government would do this. If you show them WHY. That's what I mean by the the premise might be right but the conclusions are wrong. Premise being "The Government had SOMETHING to do with this" which could mean that the government knew it was going to happen and did nothing, or that the "government" which could be the information people, but not Bush, allowed it to happen. The Government knows more than it is letting on. The government has done unethical things surrounding this event. Yes.

The conclusion being WT7 was a CD and done on purpose. The planes were holograms. A missle hit the pentagon. Etc. If I know someone who WATCHED the plane fly into the pentagon and you still insist that a plane did NOT hit the pentagon, then it comes across to me that you WANT your theory to be true when quite obviously it is not.

I certainly have no problem believing that the US government would help do something like this. In fact the day it happened one of the first things that rant through my mind was that some rich American who helped this happen probably set himself up with a good view of this to watch his handiwork unfold live.

I also think that The Egypt Air crash that happened during the last year of Clinton's presidency was done by us. I posted a thread about it.

But what I see is that the CT theory presented doesn't add up. And the very reaction that you describe is what I am talking about. You seem oblivious to the idea that many people who argue with the CT theory are not unwilling to believe that the government would do something like this. Just simply the CT theory is full of holes and doesn't make any sense.


Ex. Why would they target the WTC when it would cost them so much money when for a much cheaper and easier effort they could have simply hit the UN and in hitting the UN have killed many of the people who stood in their way with the situation in Iraq? I set up a whole scenerio recently and posted it here about how simple it would be to fly a plane into the UN. Cory Lidel's plane crash on the Upper East Side proved how easily flying a plane into NYC would be.

So why do you believe THIS theory. Why do you WANT this to be true, when it's pretty obvious that this particular theory has been shredded. Why keep pushing it.

Why do the CT's come to the table with this over and over again.


One last ex. If someone stated to you that JFK was not shot and killed in Dallas. If they stated that he was alive and well and running the country and that all those people were shown an imposter being killed that day, you would not be able to really argue with them would you? If every argument you put forth they swatted away with "its part of the cover up" "they're all in on it"

After a while you'd have to think that for some reason they'd WANT this theory to be true. Why would they want this? You understand?

This is my point with CT's when I ask Why do you WANT this theory to be true. I feel bad because I think there is a great wound in this country because of Bush and 9-11 and some people can't handle the idea that there are people in the world that would do this. They can't handle the idea that they government is doing what it has to do in the war. There MUST be some evil agenda. Its almost like people don't want to grow up and face the reality that the world is this ugly. That people hate YOU simply because you are an American. That's a frightening idea to a lot of people. I think that fear is at the heart of a lot of these theories and its sad.

I agree everyone hates Americans, at about the same level as your average outside America world citizen hates stubbing their toe. I think you give yourselves too much credit and maybe watch a little too much Fox. The average third world citizen doesn't get up, have a wash out of an old Volkswagen hubcap and then start plotting the demise of Uncle Sam. Some of these unfortunates just happen to be occupying land that is strategically valuable at the moment, so future generations my have the luxury of obtaining a Ford or even a Chevy hubcap.

Why do the CTs bring such a lot of illogical complications into the theory? If the government wanted to destroy the WTC and blame Al Qaeda, why do they need both aircraft and controlled demolition, when either would do the job on its own? Why involve both Flight 93 and Flight 77 as cover for a missile attack on the Pentagon? Why attack the Pentagon at all when so many non-government targets are available? The UN building would have got a lot more international support. Why have a "fake" impact crater for Flight 93 when they could plausibly crash it into the Atlantic?

And this is without the more far-out theories involving holograms, beam weapons and mini-nukes.

You don't need any of them, FlyingSwan.

I personally think that Islamic terrorists did it. The big question I have is whether the Government knew about it in advance, and whether or not they made things easier for the event to occur.

If so, according to Emad A. Salem, it wouldn't be the first time the towers had been attacked with prior government knowledge.

The gut reaction that tells you that your government wouldn't be capable of such an act, is the same gut instinct that would tell you that your government wouldn't be capable of sanctioning some of these CIA Operations, especially MKULTRA.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Especially in the eyes of the Government.

is there a CT or not ? well i do think there is a CT somewhere in this disaster . however i do not think it is the more bizarre--the government CD't the towers and faked the planes. thats just foolish .

the only CT that holds water is that the information was in the in-boxes in various agencies . due to general incompetence and political in fighting . no agency ever bothered to check up on the obvious threat . if they had the whole plot could have been solved before the hi-jackers ever got on a plane .

then after the disaster--theres no acountability--no heads rolled at the FBI ? the government never makes a mistake --you screw up--you get a medal, a pat on the back and a bigger budget to screw up bigger next time ? WTF?

by pumping all that money into homeland security--we may have made the country more in-secure than before simply because we have made a beaurocracsy that was too big to see 911 coming--even bigger!

a key to when something is too big to be useful is when it starts chasing it's own tail, which seems to be going on when the FBI baits home-grown terrorist . since there are no real threats they can find--they got to make some arrests to justify there outrageous budgets. but the problem is while their baiting and rounding up these people who aren't much of a threat--what is the real threat doing ?--where are they ?

they could get too comfortable rounding up--wannabe-threats--and the real threat slip across from canada again--and give us a real shock . i think the whole domestic WOT suffers from too much politics and is drowning in pork-$$$$. at the same time is doing nothing to safeguard america from the real threat. the whole idea of making a much too big beauroacy bigger is just wacked . is there a real CT--yea--what is it --the man behind the mirror is covering up the fact he can't find his rear with two-hands !!--LOL

The National Enquirer has big circulation and been so for a long time. Same group of people, that is what the Conspiracy is all about.

fox has an even bigger audience and influence

That's by far one of the most sensible CT's (if CT's are needed!) I've read. Also, all these ominous traces for various inconsistencies & cover-ups are most probably attempts by the U.S. government to hide, destroy and well, cover-up any proof of INCOMPETENCE, not evil design, within the U.S. government to turn blame away from it. Not exactly original; has happened & happens all the time all over the world. This is not to say that this practice should be condoned and people shouldn't be made accountable.

Why does everyone use "Fox" as a come back? I don't watch television. I haven't watched television for about 5 years. AT ALL. I am hearing impaired and it requires me to read the subtitles and I am too busy to sit down and do that.

My experience in my suggestion is based on my own personal interactions with Arabs and Europeans. And I never stated they were plotting the demise of Uncle Sam. That's alot of exaggerated hooplah.

Many people HATE Americans. And if you think its simply as much as stubbing your toe I'd suggest you take a trip to the middle east and ask.

A simple question: Assuming that the U.S. Government decided that, in order to invade Irak (and I think it's more or less established fact that the Neo-Cons had the invasion of Irak on their "To-do List" since the early nineties) they needed some kind of " incident" to justify the invasion. Wouldn't it have been much easier to, for example, fabricate all the proof of an imminent attack; if you wish, even shoot down a couple of planes with passengers (fictious or, horribly, real ones) high above sea, or relatively unpopulated land, before the terrorists would have been able to hit anything of substance, thus creating the neccessary reasons for invasion AND LOOK GOOD as well!!??

What always jars with me in the 9/11 CT's is this: A disaster on such a large scale, with losses of thousands of lives, the destruction of one of America's sybols of success, such a tremendous failure of National Security makes the U.S. Government LOOK BAD! Very bad. It's bad promotion, bad PR, bad press for the U.S. Not to mention the pain, anger, wrath of their own population, which, as has been the case, has also turned towards their own government, after a certain time shock & grief abated, asking questions, demanding accountability.
Why would a government do something so counter-productive, bordering on self-sabotage, if they could have just as well constructed a scenario that would make them out heroes and still give ample justification to invade Irak??

Look at Britain: Although many British citizens perished in the attack, it wasn't committed on their soil. And despite a pronounced majority of the population as well as the government being violently against the invasion, Tony Blair still bullied it through & got Britain to send troops to Irak. I'm sure he could have managed the same with a less bloody evidence just the same. Also, since the July 7th bombings, British National Security bodies issue continued (if you want to be cynical, nicely timed) reports of foiled terror-plots. With the desired effect of perpetrating fear, & citizens thus accepting ever more stringent anti-terror measures (limitations on civil liberties) and support of the occupation in Irak.

So why? To me, it just doesn't make any sense.

First off, I don't "want" there to be any conspiracy.

With that said... For me, the whole conspiracy lies in the destruction of evidence and refusal to fully investigate the incident. Two planes crash into two buildings, what happens to the majority of the material? It gets shipped out for recycling and thrown in landfills. Then we get to start a major war in an oil rich area. Yeah, I'm very suspicious...

I probably would be suspicious as well, if any of that were actually true....

Suspicion is understandable. I am suspicious as well. But my question is why is THIS CONSPIRACY THEORY, your answer. Do you see what I mean? I'm sure most of us question the government. But the backlash I think that caused Bush to get reelected is that people who disagree with him start to seem a bit crazed and paranoid at some point.

US government knew full well of this threat. They knew specifics. We knew this even early in Clinton administration. We did nothing b/c we underestimated the intent & will of our middle eastern enemies. Yet, even after such attacks we are still procrastinating/ and even still underestimating the ongoing threat/s, like fools- we are.
So be it-
IMO, I believe Bush wasn't directly involved with 911 (other than putting off something that should have been held a first priority) but I think Bush used this attack to gain.

Some people certainly can handle the idea, but I personally know of other people who CANNOT. Even after explaining everything in detail, some of them will simply not accept the idea.



If the Gov't knew that planes were going to be crashed into the towers, yet made no attempt to stop it it means they are guilty of high treason and accessory to mass murder. It's referred to as "LIHOP" - that they Let It Happen On Purpose.



WTC 7 has all the attributes of a CD. Hologram planes are a nonsense theory that I don't subscribe to at all. I have no idea if a missile hit the Pentagon or not, and am open to alternatives. You may well know someone who saw the plane hit the building, but that doesn't mean I or other people have to accept it as the indisputable truth.

You have to realize that there is no single "CT" theory about 9/11. I don't buy onto the holograms, or pods, or many other things that some people include in their theories. Again, I have no theory I "want" to be true. You are absolutely wrong in making such a claim. I'll tell you once more - I want the truth, the facts, and all the evidence out in the open.



I've already addressed the idea that some people do not believe the Gov't would be involved in 9/11, not because they dispute the evidence that supports it, but because of emotional / psychological barriers.

And I'm certainly not "oblivious" to the idea that some people don't believe it due to other factors.

I've already addressed the question of why they would target the WTC. There were enormous benefits, financially and psychologically, in doing so. Why would the UN be preferable? It is not considered a symbol of American economic or military power, which the WTC and Pentagon were. The UN includes every nation in the Middle East as member states: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, et al. So how would striking it be seen as a specifc attack against America or the West?

What happened on 9/11 and who was involved cannot be deduced or proven through speculation. For example: What if the day arrives that we have iron-clad, 100% absolute proof that the Government demolished the towers with explosives? Would you still disagree by suggesting that they would have hit the UN building instead, because of "this" or "that" reason? I doubt it. The point is that we have to look at all the evidence available - that, and only that, is what we use to find out the who, what and why of 9/11.



Again, there is no "particular" theory for 9/11. There are numerous alternative theories. And the theory I believe has NOT been "shredded" - not in any way. The "official" 9/11 theory, however, HAS been shredded. And I wonder why so many people keep pushing it.



LOL! Sure, I could argue against a "JFK Lives" theory! If "it's part of the cover-up"-type retorts are all they would have to offer, it's hardly a theory backed with anything of substance. This is certainly NOT how the 9/11 theory I ascribe to is supported!!



In the JFK theory you crafted, proponents of it have nothing concrete to base it on. It seems as if they simply don't trust the Government regarding anything. Therefore, they automatically convince themselves that any criminal acts such as this to be the work of factions within the Government. But I wouldn't characterize the behavior of the "JFK Lives" theorists as "wanting" it to be true.



It should be abundantly clear to you by now that neither I, nor the others who have posted here, "want" a "Gov't Inside Job" theory of 9/11 (or variations thereof) to be true.

You keep insisting that so many "holes" exist in the "CT" theory, that anybody who continues to support it must simply "want" to. But your examples of the "holes" are not well-founded or convincing in any way.

If you really believe the theory has been "shredded", then cite valid evidence to back it up.

Would you really accept the type of examples you've given as "holes" in the theory in return? For example, I might say....

- The Government was certainly behind it, because real Muslim terrorists would have targeted the Statue of Liberty instead of the WTC.

I could give valid reasons for my claim...

- Because the Statue of Liberty is the greatest symbol of American freedom, and we know that Muslim fanatics hate our freedoms above all else.

- Americans look to the Statue of Liberty with great patriotic pride. Destroying it would wipe out the emotional pride of the American people in a single blow. And any feelings of America's global superiority would be vanquished at the same time.

Or maybe I could assert that Muslim terrorists would have targeted structures that would have caused much greater death and damage to America, such as nuclear weapons depots and power plants...

The number one terrorist target is Indian Point and its 3 nuclear power plants, 2 of which are online. What makes Indian Point by far the number one threat in the United States? First of all, put together, these 3 nuclear plants have accumulated 65 years worth of stockpiled highly radioactive waste, which is quite vulnerably stored. Then factor in the proximity of Indian Point to New York City. It is only 24 miles north of the New York City border. Indian Point is surrounded by the densest concentration of population in the United States, the northeast corridor.

Consider this, if 1, 2 or maybe 3 of those 4 hijacked Boeing 757 and / or 767 airliners that were full with fuel had hit Indian Point there would have been approximately 20 million people contaminated with deadly radiation. Thousands of square miles of our beautiful Earth would have been poisoned by the radiation and would be lost forever. With the prevailing winds west to east, the whole northeast corridor from New York City to Boston would have been history within a few hours. By the way, there are 101 other commercial nuclear power plants like Indian Point that are still online across the United States today.

Another simple mathematical equation for a place in the United States that is most susceptible to a terrorist attack via airliner would be the Pantex Nuclear Weapons complex near Amarillo, Texas.

Why, because the Pantex Nuclear Weapons complex has stockpiled more than 30 tons of deadly plutonium. This is 50% of all the plutonium that is stored in the United States. The plutonium is stored in 1940's, 1950's and 1960's designed above ground bunkers, which are quite vulnerable to an attack by a large airliner or airliners that are full of fuel.

I could also argue that Muslim terrorists would not even use hijacked planes at all!. It would be much easier to destroy ecological targets...

These are extremely soft targets. There is no one guarding them and a pyroterrorist or someone with a trigger-happy finger could cause true ecological (and economic) disaster.

Forest fires and grass fires that get out of control can destroy millions or billions of $ worth of American produce, homes, even neighbourhoods if they spread to nearby towns or cities. Pyroterrorism is perhaps the greatest threat America has ever faced.

A pyroterrorist has the potential to burn down an entire State simply by randomly starting forest/grass fires around the State.
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I think my counter-claim - that the WTC is a very poor choice to target for "true" Muslim terrorists - is at least equal to, and likely stronger than, your claim.

But I don't claim it to be a gaping "hole" in your theory, such as how you claim the opposite is for my theory.

It's speculation, not evidence. And I only "want" evidence.

When did the CTs ever answer any questions at all, muchless, in detail? When? Where? I missed it!!

Well I have already spent a great amount of time suggesting that hitting other targets would have been a smarter way to go if it was the US but I'm not going to get into it here again.

What I asked is what I am interested in. Your gut feeling. That's what I mean by WANT.

There's a part of you that won't let this go, that's nothing to do with facts and evidence. Its more personal than that. You feel compelled to believe this.

That's what I am curious about.

All right you want the best answer to why a fraction from this government could do what they have done I have a awesome video that disects the major points of the conspiracy .
Now if you really want the answers watch this man but make sure you watch the whole thing .This man will strip you down and put your head on back striaght .This is a true American Hero ...All i'm offering you people is the truth ....

A very eye opening experience ..let me know what you think

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=87...ppert&hl=en

I don't have time to read this now but I will later. But you misunderstand my question. That's why I keep saying WANT.

Why do you want this to be true. See if you can understand what I mean by looking at my last post and the other ones.

Why we want it true ? Well let me explain something to you something is either true or untrue .The governments story is basically bulls*** another words untrue .Now if you look at the facts you realize there can only be one truth .The story surrounding 911 is so bogus I don't know where to start it makes the controversary around JFK look like a parking ticket ..
I've looked at all the evidence surrounding this matter and I would love to believe the official story but you see it's impossible to believe that this government could not of stopped this attack with all the information that has come out till now .
So I find your question rather insulting ..
Everything this government did before, during and after gives me every reason to believe that the story there telling us is completely full of major holes.
What there asking us to believe is that all these systems that are supposed to protect us broke down that day .All the heads of dept from the FAA , CIA , DOD ,FEMA failed miserably .So what happened afterwords , nothing , not a godamn thing not one person underoath ever questioned no hearings no one has of yet to my knowledge has been even fired.There wasen't even going to be a 911 commission if it wasen't for the 911 famlies .That commission was about as much help as in getting to the truth as was the warrent commission after JFK.
The truth of the matter is we still don't know what really happened on 911 were no closer to the real truth then the day it happened .But this country has changed in so many ways and for the first time in my life I do know what it feels like to have fear and if you think it's a bunch of radical religious nuts trust me there are far worst things to fear then this idea .

If you do some homework on this matter you will start to see a much bigger pattern .Now when I first saw this video I never new anything about this till a few weeks ago but this video opened my eyes to an even bigger possibility I will paste the link watch it with a strong heart....Ask yourself why are you just learning about this information now....

http://c2ore.com/archives/?itemid=1593

I never thought 9-11 was a inside job until i started reading and seeing the videos...when I took the time to look in to the whole inside job thing...I had no idea on what i was in for...As of Now...Im 100% convinced it was a inside job..Its not sumthin I WANT TO believe..

^ Greetings and welcome to the forum.

"Illuminati want my mind, soul, and my body." -- Mobb Deep

Thanx for the welcome...good to be here..

If you don't want to believe it, why not investigate whether or not what those videos told you was true?

There is one thing that all conspiracy theorists have in common: a strong dislike of our current leadership.

Now, many might say that this is due to cause and effect, the person convinced themselves that 9/11 conspiracies are real and this resulted in them hating the Bush administration. But, I've yet to see this be the case. The true cause and effect is that they hated the administration and then looked for the most dramatic, over the top way of showing this discontent with our leadership.

I'm no fan of the Bush admin myself, but I have done plenty of 9/11 research without letting my distain for the current government cloud my judgement. I've come to the conclusion that all the conspiracy ideas surrounding the 9/11 can be explained using science, reason and a good dose of logic (and a clear, unprejudiced mind).

Show me one conservative Republican who believes the 9/11 conspiracies. Show me one person who not only believes the 9/11 conspiracies, but thinks it was a good idea that the government carried it out. You won't find one.

9/11 conspiracies are simply politics gone out of control, whether the believers of the conspiracies know it or not.

I can't wait for the day that Bush and/or the GOP is out of power and the 9/11 conspiracies 'suddenly' drop off the face of the earth. Two birds with one stone.

I don't believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, thats giving too much credit to the wrong people. It happened just the way it has been shown. What always bothered me is the incompetence of the intelligence apparatus in the states. THE most staffed, funded and organized intelligence istitutions, and there was more than one here, dropped the ball on their country. And you know what is to blame, not a person or persons, its the dependence of these institutions in electronics. The lack of humint being used has seriously degraded the countries ability to intercept these twerps before they cause harm. Thats all there is to it.

Let me clarify something. I mean this be a conversation about the CTs feelings about the idea of a conspiracy in general. I don't mean to suggest that you WANT it to be true so you are making up whatever you can to MAKE IT TRUE.

Please don't think this is a debate about the conspiracy. Its really a psychological question. Not a truth seeking question.

I know many people that I consider HIGHLY intelligent who believe this. So it is not as if I am suggesting that all CTers are idiots who WANT to believe this cause they're stupid.

That's not what I am suggesting. I want to know why you feel pulled to question the story. I don't believe that we know the truth of 9-11. I do think that there is more to the story.

The question I am after is why people are drawn to this idea over and over again.

For those that are showing their reasons for doubting the story that's more what I am after.

In the last few years we have seen a huge divide in this country never before experienced in my recollection.

What I am attempting to do is reach out for a dialogue because I do believe that if we try to look at the real reasons behind the questioning we will find that many of us who are on opposite sides of the CTs have alot more in common than we think.

reading biased material and seeing manipulated videos is all you have that changed your perspective-- that doesn't say very much--

I think not everyone falls for in favor over a video..that's what I think. For those that do, more power to ya.'

they could have never pulled off 9/11 without some assistance; period...if you think the US govt is 100% clean in this; your simply naive.

This is what I mean. Why do you "want" this to be true? Why do you take it as a fact that they could not do this without assistance from the US government?

I'm not doubting you per se, just asking you to expand on this. This is what I am after.