If Bush announced he was to lead the world in heavily diminishing his nuclear weapons, would the world then praise American virtues again and condem any nuclear power ?




Hi people.




I remember a few years ago, France recieving international condemnation fror refusing to listen to global insistence to ban an underground nuclear explosion in south east asia. Can anybody remember ? They did it anyway. Did a single country offer sanctions against the arrogant french government ?

Has South Korea been involved in any terrorist attempts or invasions over the last 20 years to warrant world fears ? Come to think of it has Iran attacked nvaded, openly tortured and insulted the faith of any international county in the last 200 years to any comparison to the American record of the last 50 ?

The massive disproportionate biasing must seem very disgusting to the ordinary american who may realize that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, there was no major terror organisation linked to the 9/11 event, and America hold the greatest stock pile of weapons of mass destruction.

I remember my travels around the world in the 1990's. There was a silly impression on US travellers by the young international community, that Americans were the must dumb and gullible on earth. Of course I never follow a crowd. but I feel fear for the saftey of innocent americans today, who are now perhaps looked at as wild warmongering followers of an evildictatorship.

If Bush announced he was to lead the world in heavily diminishing his nuclear weapons, would the world then praise american virtues again ?

Why are the US governments continuously sending their troops into no win situations ?

Pretty true. The US is the country saying who can and can't have nuclear weapons, yet they are the only country who has ever used them in anger, so far. However, this will most likely change in the next 5 or 10 years.

I have to agree as well on the world perception of Americans. If one was to go on the way the US government acts, it would be fair to say that all Americans are arrogant bullies who want everything their way and don't care one jot about the culture or beliefs of anyone else if they don't match their own. But luckily a country's government is for the most part completely unrepresentative of it's citizens, thank the Lord.

We`ll since England is America`s little **EDIT** that must mean the world dosnt think to highly of Brits either.

**Col. Kurtz, this is a family forum, and you are reminded to mind your language. The language filters are there for a reason, and attempts to by-pass them are not appreciated.**

Yep, I'm English and I don't think particularly highly of yer average "Brit", the way most of the little **EDIT** act when they're on holiday. And at home for that matter. Ashamed...

**Secondhand, the language filters are there for a reason.**

You are in error in your context. The U.S. deployed two hydrogen weapons on Japan at the end of WWII. Not arbitrarily, but because of a couple of small things, namely Pearl Harbour, Midway, and the Philippines. Not to mention most of the rest of South East Asia. I have trevelled there extensively and I can tell you with all certainty that most of the South East Asian countries love America & Americans and have not yet forgotten that if it had not been for the U.S. nuking Japan, many many more lives woulf have been lost in theor own countries.

I am a history buff, especially WWII history. I have interviewed (informally) people of those countries and they remember how the Japanese came, raped, tortured, mutilated and murdered their people for no reason. My own mother-in-law's sister (my aunt-in-law?) was 8 years old when she was passing by a Japanese out post and forgot to bow to their flaf. A Japanese soldier came and wacked her on the head with his rifle stock so hard that she wasn't "right" for many years after that.

Many villagers in the Philippines were taken on "death marches" where they were made to dig long trenches and then they were shot and buried there, men, women, children, old people. Just like the Nazis did to the jews.

When we captured Japanese soldiers, we tended to their wounds, fed them, treated them with respect. Oh sure, there were some American nuts that would break our policies and be cruel, just like some of you would, but it wasn't our policy.

When the Japanese captured U.S. or other soldiers, they would have fun playing darts with their backs, they would bound them then stick a hose in their mouth until they were bloated with water, then run and jump on them to "pop" them to disembowel.

The Japanese had a vision of taking over the world just like the Nazis. They had to be stopped. The plans were in place to nuke Germany had the war continued, because the Nazis had to be stopped.

There are many nations that to this day are greatful for what the U.S. has done. There are yet others who are ungreatful snots. They are jealous for what we have. We are the cream of the crop of this earth, that is a fact that is hard to swallow for struggling sociolistic countries like Canada, France, England, etc. Yet we call them our allies. They take on the propaganda and run with. Yet we call them our allies. They lie about us, treat us like we are scum and liars, speak against us publicly, yet we call them our allies. We send millions and billions of dollars in aid to any country that will ask for help, especially during a disaster, even if they are an enemy country. We send more money to help other nations per capita THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON EARTH and that is a documented fact. Yet we are demonized. It shows our character because we CONTINUE to help and give of ourselves. We CONTINUE to call certain nations our allies despite their acting more like hostile enemy nations than friends.

We are not arrogant, we are established. Just like when I was a kid, I used to have a disdain for rich people because I thought the were arrogant and "who do they think they are" because they carried themselves with authority. After I grew up I understood that it's not that they are arrogant (for the most part) it is that they are established, confident and they know it. I guess some other countries just have some growing up to do. It takes work to carry ourselves with humility and, admittedly, not too many people today know how to do it, but it is not because we are evil or wicked.

Americans go to work every day just like the rest of the world. We are not bloated with disease and starving because we have taken care to do things right. We do not have a government that is unaccountable and can just take our hard-earned money or mass kill our citizens into submission, like some third-world countries.

We have a good life hear BECAUSE WE AND OUR PREVIOUS GENERATIONS HAVE WORKED HARD FOR IT. Then, other countries get jealous. I guess they have some growing up to do. It is the same as the low-income propaganda here. People in the ghettos hate me because I'm a "rich white guy" as if i had something to do with their dispair. Yet many want to remain on government welfare, which I pay the taxes for. they don't want to work hard to improve themselves, they just beleive I should give them half my stuff because.

Many other nations view the U.S. that way despite the fact that the U.S. is the most generous and charitbable nation on earth times 10. As if their governments were not corrupt, as if they were so perfect, who's the arrogant one? Work hard, establish your wealth and free your citizens, have an established record of righteousness, liberate some other nations from oppression and fix your population from dependence to independence, then come criticize the U.S. because we are not perfect.

Before you point out the splinter in my eye, why don't you pull out that 2x6 board out of your own eye you hypocrites.

"Has South Korea been involved in any terrorist attempts or invasions over the last 20 years to warrant world fears ? Come to think of it has Iran attacked nvaded, openly tortured and insulted the faith of any international county in the last 200 years to any comparison to the American record of the last 50 ?"

Zeus, I think you mean North Korea. And yes they have instigated terror attempts inside of South Korea. They are still "at war".

And Iran did torture and imprison some 288 Americans in 1979.

So, for me it's hard to debate people when they have a slanted, distorted or ignorant view of history.

John Q. FYI The US dropped one uranium and one plutonium bomb, both were Fission. We didn't possess hydrogen weapons till the 1950's.

Yes. Stating that they plan to wipe a nation off the map was a real topper.


Also in any comparison one has to factor in good as well as bad. No nation on earth has done the amount of humanitarian work for other nations that the USA has.

Yes. They would praise Americans. And the day after we fully disarmed they would invade us.

much of your perspective leans on the assumption that the history you have been taught is the only gospel of truth-- isnt history usually written by the winners of past conflicts? you say you are a history buff yet you seem to be completely unaware of the actual events surrounding pearl harbour-- the same entity that orchestrated 9/11 was responsible

shhesh, just when I thought some interesting posts would come in reply to John Q's excellent post and you have to bring the nut job conspiracy into it.

Try for a second to reply with some common sense. You can disagree with John Q without going "oooo, your own government did 9/11". That really has nothing to do with what he said or what this thread is about.,

It just proves how simple minded, naive, gullible and outright dimwitted you are.

Remember, if you cant come up with an intelligent reply, you can just say something about 9/11 in a thread about the U.S. and people will see your point....



/sarcasm

I couldn't say it better!

I think there needs to be a new rule about bringing up 9/11 in conversation. Kind of like Godwin's Law, which I believe revolves around anybody who brings up Hitler and the Nazis in discussion in the Internet automatically loses any argument because it's so incredibly obvious and lame. The same principles should apply to anybody going on and on about how the US government drove a couple of planes into massive buildings, killing thousands in the process, for insurance. Or oil, or whatever other pathetic reason they give that would in no way justify blah blah blah

*meanders slowly but surely off topic*

Oh there are plenty of rules in the new future, you can call then a nazi, unpatriotic, a terrorist, a terrorist sympathizer, whatever the new buzz word is, as long as the uberfuhrer says you can say it then you can say it, feel free, just feel free don't actually be free, just feel it.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, if you're serious I would just say, YIKES.
Well I'm no Canadian but I'm pretty sure they're not struggling, in fact the US has the equivalent population of Canada living below the poverty line and while Canada hands out 2.6 billion in aid from a population of 30 million odd, the US gives out 6.9 billion from a population close to 300 million, do the math. Meanwhile the US spends 518 billion on military expenditure, the Canadians don't spend a billion. Could it be that the United States scares the crap out of everyone, Massive foreign debt and a huge underclass while the leader is playing empire builder in strategic centers of the globe, with a little help from his friends.

Firstly, Greenpeace has exposed the UK nuclear bomb testing scam this month... If you are in a hurry, just scan this link...

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-10-25/47381.html



I draw no sword on this thread, in fact, personally I see the average American as sitting closer to the controlling seat to weild the greatest influence upon world change, via voting and protesting. Americans are seen in my eyes to be the greatests celebrators of life, so much so, that the rest of the world are gagging to market americanism. There ain't nothing wrong with the americans. Think of how depressed this world would have been without them.

The old assumption of US gullibility to anything their governments tell them USED to exist, but do remember, every year a larger string of constant corruption leaks and blunders are released to our waking eyes by our leaders, not just in the US government, but all over the world.

Anyway, so much for international law. Please also remember how the English were so bloody upon the lands of Scotland and Ireland with their suppressive invasions.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-10-25/47381.html


They hold nuclear bombs, they have bullied and insulted innocent Iraqis over WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION and TERROR ATTACKS that never originated from Iraq, and the bloody bastards are even secretly testing nuclear bombs whilst condeming others with sanctions and war. Double standards as part of democracy only means corruption under a friendly totle
What i hate more is how Bush is so smug at attempting to pull the wool over American eyes...IT JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN NO MORE MR BUSH Eventually Americans won't take any more of your defications. And that's why Ilike Americans.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-10-25/47381.html

You know something we as Americans like to pat ourselves on the backs alot we like to think that our country is the best in the world that we are the model that everyone should rise up to ..Well I don't know about you people but I see America changing for the worst everyday, you say were the best,... at What ?

Our kids are getting fatter.
Can't get affordable health care to our citizens.
The Divorce rate is out of control.
The only way we can control our children is to put them on some kind of drug.
We hardly have any role models for our kids to look up to.
Our education system is in the toilet .
We can lockup groups of people without showing them the evidence indefinitley.
We have a drug problem that is like a snake eating it's own tail .
We are the #1 weapons supplier in all the world .
We have a gun problem that 's worst then ever .
We now can torture people .
The driving force in this country is to make a quick buck.

I think we should be taking care and fixing our own country so we can show the rest of the world that maybe we do know a better way untill then I highly doubt we really know what were doing or how to accomplish this problem ....hey Canada any ideas ? And yes I love this country and I hope we can change the state that it's in all I'm asking is to stop saying we are the best because if this is the best I know we can do much better ..something to think about ....

moan moan moan.. you've never had it so good! Why don't you leave America and live in a muslim Islamic country. See how far your moaning will get you there.

so have you ever looked in to the marshall plan in detail?
did u know that girls as young as 9 years old were reporting to doctors suffering from malnutrition and syphilis?
and that the americans and british and russians were extremly harsh to the females in the defeated germany?
they raped with out mercy those women and children that were under the boot of the victorious allies!
the rightous allies??
THE BIGGEST WAR CRIME IS LOSING:
people know that every american isnt a war loving brainwashed fully auto- mated patriot.
i cant wait to see that country either, people love the idea of the freedom and wide open spaces of the new world.
and its true that our rights are protected by some fairly scarey methods...i asked this question b4.... in another thread how far do you expect your government to go to protect your mtv ...and running hot water and cars and blah blah blah
like billy hill says we got it too good maybe?
if i were an american id be proud!! im not really a material person or so i like to think but.... i can say see and taste touch like, dislike,agree,disagree,choose, these things are not really posessions but they are protected.
and life would be hell without em...and having this conversation would or could get us all a nice long sentence in a place as similar to hell as we can all imagine.
"god is an american"
(george bush is not america and america is not george bush)

double post

Next time try and stop a Hilter type coming in power in your country then maybe we won't have to step in. Typical we gotta save the world again... zie Nazis are on the march again.. this time it's muslim nazis.

ooooh billy boy what are you talking about?
i see your thinking...im in germany there fore im german?
no no no mr silly billy im in germany because its a great place i like it here i have the CHOICE TO GO ANYWHERE I PLEASE.
even to your country if i like (WHEREVER THAT MAY BE)
and theres nothing you or any other little robot could do about it
my mother is english my dad is scottish im from west london i live in north germany .
and as i remember it was us english that stepped in 1st?
ask john q for the delayed reaction of the u.s.
you do your nation no good service spewing out that old street corner gossip.
you wicked little witch.

I'm not American. why do you want to live in Germany? or should they be called Turkmany..
I've been to Germany and it's full of Turks.. No wonder they were against the war on terror, half the population is Islamic..

very sad..
you know what you sound like silly billy ?
just go ahead and spew out that witches brew, it shows us who you are you crazy kid.
you seemed so normal too.

Someone who's not afraid to point out the obvious? Thanks.



I am.. where you.. don't sound normal to me. You sound like an avoidist...

what did i avoid?
dont try and be all rational now ..youve shown how ignorant u can be already.

whats obvious that you were able to notice that germany has many turks here?
thats really courageous of you to point that very deep and hard hitting point out to us all.
you think thats a tribute to your intellect?
jesus...
your diggin a deep hole here

Here this soldier sums up present day America it wasen't always like this ...

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice.


Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.



Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.


Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman

Only two pages into the thread and already it descends into an argument best suited to high school cafeterias.

I'm going to go ahead and close this thread down to make room for the next "America Sucks" thread.