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Duppy Conqueror
Hey all ..I would like you to take a look at this site http://www.hamiltonparanormal.com/tunnel.html

It's a site dedicated to the "Blue Ghost Tunnel" ..this is a famous haunted place that's about an hour drive from my house.People from Canada are probably familiar with it. The top part of the site is the history of the tunnel but if you scroll down to the bottom ..there's probably 100 pic's from the Tunnel are made by the same people ...Can they all be fakes?...note that they were taken over a two and a half year period ..if they are fake ..that's some dedicated hoaxers!! Let me know what you think...
LadyHay
I personally think that group is just... oh whats the word... silly, for starters. If you would like an honest take on the so called "haunted tunnel" read this by my good colleage and friend, Sue Darroch.

I think its good that you question things and dont take them at face value... especially when there is a site such as the one you posted, touting all sorts of misleading and unfounded information.



http://www.pararesearchers.org/Ghosts/BGT/bgt.html


Duppy Conqueror
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Oct 28 2006, 05:48 PM) [snapback]1408199[/snapback]

I personally think that group is just... oh whats the word... silly, for starters. If you would like an honest take on the so called "haunted tunnel" read this by my good colleage and friend, Sue Darroch.

I think its good that you question things and dont take them at face value... especially when there is a site such as the one you posted, touting all sorts of misleading and unfounded information.
http://www.pararesearchers.org/Ghosts/BGT/bgt.html



Very good Hezzbelle ..this is the kind of feedback I was looking for ..I found the site to be (as you put it ) "silly" as well ..I realize that the information on the site is quite misleading...but what interested me was the pic's.. could they all be fake's?...(hoaxes ,natural occurrence , or legit?)..im not a photo expert ..So I couldn't begin to speculate

As for the site you posted I found this to be interesting>>> "My own theory about such places is similar to those of Japanese and Tibetan ghost folklore. When you have enough people who continuously visit an atmospheric location with high expectations of experiencing a ghost a psychic imprint from these same people is left behind. Those who are sensitive to these imprints will then pick up on them. If we refer back to Japanese and more specifically Tibetan beliefs it is possible that an entity is born from these emotions and feelings. In this case by sheer accident. "
LadyHay
QUOTE(Duppy Conqueror @ Oct 28 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1408224[/snapback]

Very good Hezzbelle ..this is the kind of feedback I was looking for ..I found the site to be (as you put it ) "silly" as well ..I realize that the information on the site is quite misleading...but what interested me was the pic's.. could they all be fake's?...(hoaxes ,natural occurrence , or legit?)..im not a photo expert ..So I couldn't begin to speculate


I don't believe the photos posted are "hoaxes" persay, as much as people wanting to believe so badly that they'll take photos of natural anomalies and present them as "ghosts". These people are what I call "orbists" and are still very much gung ho on those photos of dust and/or moisture and/or pollen etc. and also breath moisture.

I've known of this group for a few years and IMHO, they are a perfect example of a group who follows the herd. E.g. they don't think for themselves, they read somewhere about "orbs" and "ectoplasm" and any anomaly they find in their photos MUST be ghosts, because some other group out there SAID they were.

If I sound harsh, it is because I have read their posts to others who dispute their findings. They absolutely will not be open to the fact that their photos MIGHT be of some other natural source, and they will verbally attack those who disagree. I don't believe this is conducive to the study of ghosts/hauntings etc.

It is people like you, who question things, that I find myself drawn to. We may never know more than we do now about ghosts, but at least we are open to new findings, and are willing to be open to the fact that some things may be not supported by our findings.

Cheers!

Episteme
I dug through both links and tend to agree with what the people at pararesearchers.org are saying. It's really kind of sad that this guy is having such an easy time convincing people of this, not to mention the damage that has likely been done to the area. Has anyone dug through and found any photos that don't look like moisture in the air? I stopped after looking through 10 pages or so, finding nothing unique, with potentially hundreds more photos of moisture to sift through, it really started getting monotonous... sleepy.gif
Shazzz
guys....can anyone please guide me where exactly BGT is? i know its general location, but dont know its exact location.....i went to find it last nite....but it was too foggy and raining.....and the mud just worstned as i walked....will go again on a better nite....

from the info i have is that we get off the car in front of that GM gate (south east end)....walk for about 3 mins till the railway tracks.....walk east on the railway tracks till we get on the iron bridge.....and talk an immediate right down the hill after we get off the iron bridge (past the canal).....is this the right way?? does anyone have a direct way to it? plz help out a thrill-seeker grin2.gif....thankss
LadyHay
Shazz, did you not read the expose above?

The tunnel has been bricked up.

http://www.pararesearchers.org/Ghosts/BGT/bgt.html
Shazzz
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Nov 14 2006, 08:01 PM) [snapback]1427096[/snapback]

Shazz, did you not read the expose above?

The tunnel has been bricked up.

http://www.pararesearchers.org/Ghosts/BGT/bgt.html


i skimmed through it....are both ends of the tunnel sealed up?....i also read somewhere they were broken into....but it could've been before they bricked it up.....here's a pic i just found (posted in March 2006):

IPB Image\
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE
"My own theory about such places is similar to those of Japanese and Tibetan ghost folklore. When you have enough people who continuously visit an atmospheric location with high expectations of experiencing a ghost a psychic imprint from these same people is left behind. Those who are sensitive to these imprints will then pick up on them. If we refer back to Japanese and more specifically Tibetan beliefs it is possible that an entity is born from these emotions and feelings. In this case by sheer accident. "


I think one of the big keys in figuring ghosts and residual energy out is asking 'what makes the conditions right', for me at least it's the top questionand one I'm always asking and trying to figure out.

But then I just had a thought while reading what Duppy said. Do we really want to know this? - OMG think of the implications - say for a min it's more than just extreme bursts of emotion/experience that is recorded/held in residual energy. If we ever get to know what the conditions are, then science could develop the tools to record it like a tape machine and play it all back. Would this be a good thing for society or not? Makes me think of Big Brother is watching you type sci-fi of the future stuff. Well at least the down side of it.
LadyHay
QUOTE(Shazzz @ Nov 14 2006, 12:08 PM) [snapback]1427101[/snapback]

i skimmed through it....are both ends of the tunnel sealed up?....i also read somewhere they were broken into....but it could've been before they bricked it up.....here's a pic i just found (posted in March 2006):



Shazzz... basically the article states that it is an urban legend. No more.
RollingThunder06
It is a shame that some of those photos were taken by a group that is not reliable. Only looked at a few, the mist one looked good. (On the page where they announced it was going to be bricked up.) IF it was ever visited by energies of the past, it will never be known now.

Anvil, I don't think it would be a good service to anyone if we found out the conditions for making contact. Not just from the view of play backs but also science has all ready "explained" paranormal experiences through their experiments. Within the last few years they have claimed that pilots in, I think the GForce stage, have out of body experiences. Also recently a doctor treating a patient for a mental disorder claimed the patient felt ghosts around her. If this trends continues, the foundation that spirits do exists will become just campfire tales. It will go from people not believing to all cases having to do something with medical or chemical flare ups within our minds. sad.gif
Duppy Conqueror
Ive always been curious to why 'Science' hasn't done an in depth study of ghosts ...such as, go to a notoriously known haunted place with credible scientist and do a 5 year study of the phenomena with round the clock video , photograph's , and evp recording's ..and compile enough evidence to >prove< or disprove the existence of ghosts ...I realize the cost of doing such a study would be expensive but the idea of proving there's life after death far out weighs any cost...

The real way of proving the existence of ghosts is with compiled evidence of one location..a picture here and a picture there isn't going to prove anything ..with photo shop and all the other technology that is available to the average person no one piece of 'evidence' is going to convince everyone ..To date the best evidence we have is word of mouth ..granted there are some cool video's , pictures , and evp's out there ,but I have yet to see credible compiled evidence which is what interested me to that site... there's got to be 100 pics there of the same location ..too bad they weren't credible ghost investigators ...

P.S ...The Blue ghost tunnel is still accessible
LadyHay
QUOTE(Duppy Conqueror @ Nov 15 2006, 08:29 AM) [snapback]1428015[/snapback]

Ive always been curious to why 'Science' hasn't done an in depth study of ghosts ...such as, go to a notoriously known haunted place with credible scientist and do a 5 year study of the phenomena with round the clock video , photograph's , and evp recording's ..and compile enough evidence to >prove< or disprove the existence of ghosts ...I realize the cost of doing such a study would be expensive but the idea of proving there's life after death far out weighs any cost...

The real way of proving the existence of ghosts is with compiled evidence of one location..a picture here and a picture there isn't going to prove anything ..with photo shop and all the other technology that is available to the average person no one piece of 'evidence' is going to convince everyone ..To date the best evidence we have is word of mouth ..granted there are some cool video's , pictures , and evp's out there ,but I have yet to see credible compiled evidence which is what interested me to that site... there's got to be 100 pics there of the same location ..too bad they weren't credible ghost investigators ...

P.S ...The Blue ghost tunnel is still accessible


I agree. I would love to have my own lab, and people striving for the same goal. To capture a ghost or spirit in a bottle and study it. yes.gif Seriously, I don't know what I would do, if I had absolute opportunity.

The Blue Ghost Tunnel is an Urban Legend
. Don't know why people are determined to go there. Duppy, am I to take it that you took a wander there? wink2.gif
LadyHay
QUOTE(RollingThunder06 @ Nov 14 2006, 09:36 PM) [snapback]1427572[/snapback]


Not just from the view of play backs but also science has all ready "explained" paranormal experiences through their experiments.


Where? Can you give examples of this? I would be interested to see this!

QUOTE
Within the last few years they have claimed that pilots in, I think the GForce stage, have out of body experiences.


Again, I'm curious about this and would like to read for myself. Got a link? or journal?

QUOTE
Also recently a doctor treating a patient for a mental disorder claimed the patient felt ghosts around her. If this trends continues, the foundation that spirits do exists will become just campfire tales. It will go from people not believing to all cases having to do something with medical or chemical flare ups within our minds. sad.gif


However, although a scientist has made a link between a particular person with a mental disorder/illness and her visualizing ghosts, this does not conclude that all people with mental disorders/illness see ghosts, or all people who see ghosts have a mental disorder/illness.

I think I understand what you are saying, that if scientists get a hold of this and make a true study, they will debunk any and all theories that ghosts exists? Don't worry, I highly doubt that is the case. First off, there is not enough money devoted to the study and secondly, even if there were the funding, I doubt this could be done.

I think personally, that this is beyond mainstream science.

SunnyOutlook
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Nov 15 2006, 10:36 AM) [snapback]1428017[/snapback]

I agree. I would love to have my own lab, and people striving for the same goal. To capture a ghost or spirit in a bottle and study it. yes.gif Seriously, I don't know what I would do, if I had absolute opportunity.


I would love to do something like this as well. Surely, there's a Ms. or Mr. Money Bags out there that would fund a project along this line. Hey, maybe a grant from the government. If the government can fund studies on cow flatulence, then why not a study on one of the most haunted places over a long period of time to finally get to the bottom of whether ghosts, spirits, etc. really exist. Think of the book deals, movie deals, even possible TV deals. Ms. or Mr. Money Bags could possibly see a return on the investment.

Personally, I already know they exist, but what fun a project like this could be. A girl has got to dream, right?
chaoszerg
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Nov 15 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]1428017[/snapback]

I agree. I would love to have my own lab, and people striving for the same goal. To capture a ghost or spirit in a bottle and study it. yes.gif Seriously, I don't know what I would do, if I had absolute opportunity.



But if you became a spirit or ghost would you want someone to capture you and run tests on you. huh.gif lol
jonb
heh.. http://www.hamiltonparanormal.com/tunnel29.html this page pretty much proves ecto mist type stuff is just down to breath lit up by the flash.. look at the snow and ice!!

actually if you look at other ones in the january area you can see some quite detailed breath mists, that you might expect from cigarette smoke.. some even look like figures or faces.
**
hmm i now see that its in ontario and that pictures like this are presented in areas like july where i lknow for sure that ontario is very warm at night... so they may be caused by moisture (if it is near niagara?? that place has mist everywhere).
the place must be pretty damp, in some of the photos in winter you can see the icycles coming down from the ceiling.
LadyHay
QUOTE(chaoszerg @ Nov 15 2006, 10:01 AM) [snapback]1428112[/snapback]

But if you became a spirit or ghost would you want someone to capture you and run tests on you. huh.gif lol


Hehe... could be fun! wink2.gif

In all honesty, you do have a good point. Spirit or no, we are still talking about human beings. So that would mean respecting them as such.

Being silly again, perhaps we could set up a psychoanalytical study for the "living impaired" and ask for volunteer test subjects!
LadyHay
QUOTE(jonb @ Nov 15 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]1428160[/snapback]

heh.. http://www.hamiltonparanormal.com/tunnel29.html this page pretty much proves ecto mist type stuff is just down to breath lit up by the flash.. look at the snow and ice!!

actually if you look at other ones in the january area you can see some quite detailed breath mists, that you might expect from cigarette smoke.. some even look like figures or faces.
**
hmm i now see that its in ontario and that pictures like this are presented in areas like july where i lknow for sure that ontario is very warm at night... so they may be caused by moisture (if it is near niagara?? that place has mist everywhere).
the place must be pretty damp, in some of the photos in winter you can see the icycles coming down from the ceiling.


Just a quick couple of points here. I am also from Canada, (most western province) and have noticed visibility to my breath as late as June. Having attempted to take photos of cigarette smoke for comparibility purposes, sometimes the smoke would show up on my digital and sometimes it would not. Even when it was fully within my viewfinder. I guess its a characteristic of smoke and/or digital cameras (inexpensive ones, anyway). My point is, just because we don't see our breath in warmer temps it doesn't mean that it is not barely there and visible to the camera. Also, inside a tunnel, with all that concrete and moisture at night, it is going to be colder than the outside air. Perhaps we need to conduct some more comparitive scenarios?
Lady_Anvilabeel
QUOTE(RollingThunder06 @ Nov 15 2006, 05:36 AM) [snapback]1427572[/snapback]

Anvil, I don't think it would be a good service to anyone if we found out the conditions for making contact. Not just from the view of play backs but also science has all ready "explained" paranormal experiences through their experiments. Within the last few years they have claimed that pilots in, I think the GForce stage, have out of body experiences. Also recently a doctor treating a patient for a mental disorder claimed the patient felt ghosts around her. If this trends continues, the foundation that spirits do exists will become just campfire tales. It will go from people not believing to all cases having to do something with medical or chemical flare ups within our minds. sad.gif


Science has already touched and supported claims for the conditions of residual energy with the ice crystle/water expriements. I can't for the life of me remember what the studies were called but they were able to show how the molecules of ice/water responded/recorded emotion and memory. But understanding what the exact conditions are in a out of lab everyday enviroment is still not quite understood. These sources weren't the ones I was looking for but they kind of go into it a bit.

QUOTE
Our present research follows what has been named "the memory of water". First we empirically observed that highly dilute (i.e. in the absence of any physical molecule) biological agents triggered relevant biological systems. Some of these experiments were reproduced in three external laboratories that co-authored an article on the subject (Nature, 1988, 333, 816-818). Next, blind experiments with an external team showed that the activity of highly dilute agonists was abolished by an oscillating magnetic field, which had no comparable effect on the genuine molecules. Later, several hundred experiments have confirmed our ability to transfer to water, using an amplifier, the specific molecular activity of more than 30 substances, such as physiological and pharmacological agonists, antibodies (purified or in whole serum), antigens and even the specific signal of bacteria. In our most recent experiments, we digitally recorded (sampling 44 kHz) specific biological activities on a computer. When "replayed" to water, plasma, target organs, cells, or to an antigen-antibody reaction, the recorded signal induced an effect characteristic of the original substance.
These results strongly suggested the electromagnetic nature of molecular signalling, heretofore unknown. This signal, that is "memorized" and then carried by water, most likely enables in vivo transmission of the molecular specific information. We have recently obtained direct evidence for the critical role of water in the transmission of the molecular signal, at the usual concentration as well as at high dilution.

At the least, these advances indicate the reality of the high dilution phenomenon and allow for the transmission and detection at a distance of any normal or pathological molecular activity. At most, they could profoundly change biology and medicine.


Source

QUOTE
The "memory of water?" It is more mysterious, but no more so than the fact that a compound formed from two gases should be liquid at normal temperature and pressure, and dilate as it cools. Coherent domains with laser-like properties have been described in water (E. del Giudice, G. Preparata, G. Vitiello (1988) 'Water as a free electric dipole laser', Phys. Rev. Lett. 61:1085-1088). More recently, a unique type of stable (non-melting) ice crystal that maintains an electrical field has been identified and characterized in water. Truly, unemployment should not be a worry for physicists! Nonetheless, water is not our subject of investigation. What interests us is not the nature of the magnetic medium and how it functions, but the message recorded in it, which can be copied and transmitted. In the light of our experimental results, we are confident in our belief that we have elucidated the physical nature of the molecular signal. The principle is as simple as exploding a mixture of air and gasoline, but the consequences are enormous.


Source







coldethyl
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Nov 15 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]1428028[/snapback]

this does not conclude that all people with mental disorders/illness see ghosts, or all people who see ghosts have a mental disorder/illness.


Yep, this is true. I'm crazy as a loon but I don't see ghosties. yes.gif
chaoszerg
QUOTE(coldethyl @ Nov 15 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]1428311[/snapback]

Yep, this is true. I'm crazy as a loon yes.gif



I can 100% agree with that...i mean hello cold nice to chat to you again umm yeah that's what i mean nice to chat with you again... unsure.gif




laugh.gif thumbsup.gif ph34r.gif





Edit: to correct spelling mistake
Duppy Conqueror
QUOTE(Hezzbelle @ Nov 15 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]1428017[/snapback]

The Blue Ghost Tunnel is an Urban Legend[/b]. Don't know why people are determined to go there. Duppy, am I to take it that you took a wander there? wink2.gif



LOL...I haven't been there in a year ...last time I went I didn't see or catch anything on my camera ..so I kinda gave up on the BGT ...but the 'ghost tracking group' i'm part of does regular visits there...I personally don't like the hour drive no.gif
RollingThunder06
Have found these links to articles I have read about science and the paranormal. Am still looking for the one about pilots and Gforce.

Link

Link

Edited:Wanted to add that I will keep looking for the pilot one.
St.Kitts-girl
I unno how old this fourm is. But for people who cross this in 2008. Heres an update. The tunnel is still standing, whatever was blocked off is now gone. I havent been there myself but i have many friends who have gone there and they say that the brick wall that was put up they tore it down. Its a lot of walking to do. If you go be sure to bring extra batteries for ur camras ect. I dont know about cell phone recpion. Also dress apprt. Nothing like flip flops short shorts ect.

I live near the area. Not close but 3-5 drive there for me. I live in st.Catharines so.... the tunnel is really popluar at my school.

Wnat more info?

E-mail me @ Sailormoon_lver4ever@hotmail.com
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