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dog soldier
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?
divine_mockery
It probably was a male, due to descriptions of the suspect(s).

I think it's a really interesting case, he seems to be a pretty complex guy.
I'd like for someone to solve those cryptograms.

Gatofeo
Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.
I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.
It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.
I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.
Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.
He would have established such a code early on.
It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.
Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.
I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.
Just my opinion, mind you.
I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.
divine_mockery
QUOTE
Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye.

Hah, especially the Zodiac.
He was always pressing the newspaper people to publish his notes, and he'd
get angry when they ignored him.

XSAS
QUOTE(Gatofeo @ Nov 1 2006, 04:12 AM) [snapback]1412296[/snapback]

Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.
I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.
It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.
I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.
Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.
He would have established such a code early on.
It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.
Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.
I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.
Just my opinion, mind you.
I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.


Interesting post and a good read.
contactismade
Yeah the majority of serials are male, a female serial like Eileen W is rare, at least right now they are. But then again women ARE very sneaky.
coldethyl
*hides knife behind her back*

What??
contactismade
Who Me? eh ethyl
Atheist God
QUOTE(contactismade @ Nov 10 2006, 01:21 PM) [snapback]1422275[/snapback]

Yeah the majority of serials are male, a female serial like Eileen W is rare, at least right now they are. But then again women ARE very sneaky.


If there were more female serial killers out ther more would be caught.... I think the assumption the 95 to 98% of them are males is pretty on the money here. Women can do this yes but it is not very likely.
contactismade
Actually its not really an assumption its closer to verfiable fact. 3-5% of the male population are sociopaths, only half a percent of women are.
the rebirth
maybe the women just aren't discovered for what they do, contactismade is right, they are pretty sneaky...
contactismade
I'm going to generalize here for a minute so have you hats ready. It might be because women covet life more than men do. After all they can carry another life in them. I think that ability alone would make even the worst kind of woman more nurturing than most men. Now all you modern dads don't get mad at me, it is true and you know it.
Boo_ Boi
Wow thats fascinating but it strikes fear to me sad.gif
Gatofeo
This is from the link that Dennis Kaufmann posted:

"The suspect in the photo's above is Jack Tarrance, Jack has been the focus of the zodiac investigation which was reopened in 2000. Jack Tarrance passed away on August 26, 2006 in Olympia, Washington at age 78.

The reason that Jack was never arrested for the zodiac murders was because of departmental jealousy amongst law enforcement, especially the San Francisco Police department.
I will say this, if the SFPD would have cooperated with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies in this matter, Jack would have been arrested for the zodiac crimes.
In November 0f 2000, the FBI contacted the SFPD and asked them for an original zodiac letter so their laboratory could get a DNA profile. The FBI guaranteed to have the results back in thirty days, the SFPD refused to send the letter and was only willing to have the letter tested in their own laboratory ..."


Perhaps for good reason, Dennis.
Remember the big scandal about the FBI Crime Lab being so disorganized that evidence was lost or incorrectly interpreted.
To say that Zodiac was never arrested because of departmental jealousies is ludicrous. There has long been tremendous pressure to prosecute the Zodiac killer. Any department who announced they had a suspect would have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
Let's face facts: Despite all our modern crime-busting equipment and techniques, investigations are still at the mercy of questionable information provided by rattled witnesses, and how well the crime scene is preserved and gone over.
When Zodiac was at his peak, crime scene investigation was primitive by today's standards and much evidence taken today was not even considered back then.
It's just a fact of life: some crimes never get solved. No suspect is ever apprehended. And some suspects are innocent.
Only on TV and in the movies does the crime get solved and the proper suspect prosecuted.

I told him that I discovered who he was and that I wanted to write a book about his life and it wouldn't be published until after his death, and it worked … After months of gathering evidence, I felt I had enough to get law enforcement to listen. On October 5, 2000, I went to the F.B.I. in Sacramento Ca. and … (presented) … my case.
I have personally witnessed the politics surrounding this case, and it is such a high profile case so it seems every agency wants to say, "I'm the one that solved it".
During my personal investigation I made some bizzare discoveries that are almost unbelievable. Yet, the facts found are accurately and completely undeniable!
Once I discovered the "truth" surrounding this case, the "truth" became more mysterious than the mystery itself! This is a real life tragedy for the victims’ families, as well as myself.

When I am able to tell my life story, you will realize that this is a situation where the truth is by far stranger than fiction!!


Knew it! Has a book to sell or the rights to one!
Someone trying to sell a book is hardly an objective source.
Oh, you’ve presented all kinds of “evidence” on your website but I’m not convinced. Such “evidence” can be manufactured or tweaked to make it all the more intriguing and fit your theories.
What did you not include that didn't fit your scenario?
Who are you, Dennis? Were you in on the investigation? Did you cover it as a reporter and, thus, presumably privy to information that didn’t make it into the newspapers?
Or are you just another conspiracist with a book to sell?
You may be right. I may be wrong. But without knowing how you came about the information, I remain very skeptical of your claims.
ddiggler
QUOTE(dog soldier @ Oct 30 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]1410246[/snapback]
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?


I don't know how long ago, but Unsolved Mysteries aired a special promoting the theory that Theodore Kaczynski(the unabomber) was The Zodiac Killer. There was some evidence that Ted signed his high school yearbook with the crosshair inside of a cross(the same insignia on The Zodiac's letters to the police). Ted was a also a genius with cryptographs(just like the letters). I don't know what to think of that theory, but i'll keep hunting...
glynne64
Oh, how I remember hearing about Zodiac. I believe that these murders were done by a man, mostly because of the way eye witnesses described the killer. Do I think he is dead? Perhaps. Do I think he spent time in jail? Probably on unrelated charges. Is it possible that Jack Tarrance is/was the Zodiac? He might have been. I think it might go the way of cases like Jack the Ripper...never solved. Good therories, good suspects...lack of concrete evidence. sad.gif

I'm kinda looking forward to the movie coming out next year...March 2nd for US. It's been years since I read the book. hmm.gif Hmmm...I think I might still have the paperback I read back in college. Gotta go look!
Beautiful boy
On one of Russian-speaking criminal forums there was very interesting discussion about the Zodiac and the author of big Russian clause about it has expressed at a forum the opinion. It is so interesting, that I have decided to translate it completely:

I shall begin a little not on a theme, but then you will understand why so be typed a few patiences and read up. It is considered, that on everyone 5 million person. The population 1 sexual murderer-maniac (approximately, certainly) always operates. Even if it catch, shortly to it on change there is another, ò. å. The specified proportion is supported constantly. Simple calculation shows, that for Russia at a similar proportion the general number of constantly operating sexual murderers is made the order by 25-30 person., for the USA - approximately 60 person. How many they are caught? The statistics is crafty, the serial criminality is dissolved in the general number condemned for deliberate murders. How much I know, for 10 years of existence of the Russian Federation (i.e. 1992-2002) in the territories entering into present Southern federal district number of condemned persons, falling under household concept "maniac", has made by different calculations 22-26 person (on any, up to 30 person.) . Considering, that the Southern federal district gives overwhelming majority of plural sexual criminality, it turns out, that in a year 2-3 maniacs were exposed. In other territories it is less, as there an acuteness of this problem a little below. In any case, in my opinion, in Russia it is exposed less than half of actively operating sexual maniacs. If who has authentic statistics the Gene. The Offices of Public Prosecutor, capable to throw light on this question, favour I ask to announce it, to me it is unknown. But surrenders to me, that such statistics will not deny my internal voice of the rights and a conclusion drawn above. What turns out? The Significant number of serial murderers avoids exposure. Very much dexterously them catch only in the American films, in a life all turns out much more clumsily.

The Zodiac is interesting to that on the one hand it went on dialogue (we shall tell so, on contact) with press and police, and with another - has successfully avoided exposure. Considering its letters, studying materials about its activity, it starts to seem, that somewhere beside, just about, will blab out, will leave çàöåïêó, will make a slip and so forth also I (i.e. the reader) this mistake of the criminal I shall notice also it I shall expose. About this feeling to me was spoken by the most different people read my sketch. I perfectly give myself the report that this sensation at all charm of my style - it is consequence of that impression, which tried to make (and made) the Zodiac. In this game - its innovation, its firm style. To be under a delusion it is not necessary. History with the Zodiac just that case when detailed elaboration and excessive details only obscure business and confuse. I could write a sketch twice to greater on the size and with much lot of various details, but have meaningly limited myself, clearly giving the report, that excessive immersing in different sorts of a particular only will stir up all picture and will disorient the reader. Reflecting above this business, I have come to following conclusions which, certainly, could not state in a sketch as such statements contradict style of a site (" Mysterious crimes of the past " do not offer the point of view on described events, and only systematize the facts on business):

1. Letters of the Zodiac - the tool of disinformation. Informing in the first letters authentic data, it aspired to cause trust to them but only that in the further to use the messages for a desorientation of consequence. Therefore its literary trash it is not necessary to take on belief;

2. The zodiac did not make that quantity of murders on which insisted in the late messages;

3. The zodiac did not get in sight law enforcement bodies IN GENERAL. Its prints of fingers were available at the disposal of FBI, and FBI it did not doubt that its prints of fingers. I suppose, that actually these prints have appeared at all after murder of the taxi driver, and much earlier, simply it disappeared. The given fact () means presence of a dactyloscopic card of the Zodiac or prints of separate parts of fingers and palms, that all suspected were checked on concurrence of prints. So, among suspected it at all was not;

4. Histories of some persons looked rather suspiciously, certainly, are interesting, but to business do not concern. It is not necessary to be under a delusion in this respect. Everything, that inspired suspicions concerning these people - an essence of concurrence and no more that. To think differently, means to confuse itself;

5. It is obvious To me, that the Zodiac was the person " patients in all head ", defective, cowardly and irresolute. Yes, it bravely shot people from a pistol, to kill a shot from fire-arms in general simply. But here on lake Berissa it has admitted obvious weakness, I think, during any moment it was ready to refuse murder and if the couple which it has attacked, would lead itself with it a little differently - would try to move to pity, would began to complain about a life and ïð.-that it, most likely, at all would not start a knife. Perhaps, would shoot from a pistol. But in how it sticked with a knife into the CONNECTED VICTIMS it is not felt not only hands of the killer, but even a strong man's hand. I think, during any moment it was ready to refuse murder and if the couple which it has attacked, would lead itself with it a little differently - would try to communicate to it, to move to pity it, would began to complain about a life and ïð.-that it, most likely, at all would not start a knife. Perhaps, would shoot from a pistol. But in how it sticked with a knife into the CONNECTED VICTIMS it is not felt not only hands of the killer, but even a strong man's hand. About any special military preparation at the Zodiac cannot be and speeches, I insist on it categorically. Can not doubt, the person having special preparation, would kill a couple on lake Berissa absolutely differently. Weakness of character it is very convex it was showed in history with abduction of the woman with the child which HAS escaped FROM IT. It in general in a head does not keep within! It some hours went for a drive with it on roads, not being solved on murder (not being solved). Can imagine Chikatilo, Gasy or Dahmer which like would be going to make murder, have stolen a victim and during several hours could not be solved on murder? Item 5 is very important, it confirms item 1; in the letters the Zodiac draws itself " the abrupt murderer ", but it only attempt of psychological indemnification. Actually it was pity, cowardly and deeply psychologically the defective person, the single, probably, the impotent man. Its "project" of undermining of the school bus - the present schizophrenia;

6. My assumption of the further destiny of the Zodiac follows From all above-stated. This person felt necessity to humiliate, intimidate, be drawn before associates (to recollect its detailed story on lake Berissa what, say, it the criminal, has made runaway enough and so forth For what all it to speak people which it íàìåðâàëñÿ to kill? Only to amuse itself; it spoke, and it ï¸ðëî, it simply enjoyed itself(himself) that minute). The subsequent murder followed from these needs. It tried to shoot at love couples, tried to knife. Experiments with a knife have not liked it, probably, have frightened it, probably, it has felt own cowardice. Anyway, it has refused attacks with a knife and has returned to a pistol. Finally, after murder of the taxi driver it has refused the further attacks. Probably, it was frightened with that circumstance, that its prints of fingers have got to law enforcement bodies (and newspapers have informed on it in the presumable form). Probably, it that there were the people, capable still has more frightened it îïîçíàòü (the escaped woman and the teenagers seen as it has shot the taxi driver). Anyway, the Zodiac has refused the further murders. MURDER OF THE TAXI DRIVER IN THE SAN-FRANCISCO IS LAST MURDER OF YHE ZODIAC! Within several years it still tried to write letters, "was compensated" in a similar way in own eyes, but finally started by it the mechanism of self-destruction has pushed it to a unique output - it has finished with itself(himself). It was humiliated every day with a life: it could not earn enough money, it could not receive the woman whom wished, it could not live how wanted, with it did not respect or even despised associates (anyway, it so believed). It should be compensated, remove this stress, to prove to itself, that it " abrupt the man, instead of a pettiness ", but... To make it it could not any more. Was afraid of witnesses who were at police, was afraid of the left prints of fingers. From here various consequences of accrued stress - infringement of a dream, frustration of digestion, nervous system, which and so it was deeply unhealthy. It could not remove stress murder therefore it has removed its suicide. The Zodiac not only has not lived up to 1990, but even up to 1980 I Think, that it has finished with itself(himself) somewhere in 1974 (most later), but most likely, even earlier, in a year approximately per 1972 I Believe, that late letters of the Zodiac could be forged a different sort by fools-imitators.

Such here my opinion on this person and its crimes.


In occasion of why maniacs become only men, Russian scientist A.Buhanovsky has well told in interview:

It concerns exclusively boys?

Yes. The maniac is always the man. This property of a man's brain. I know in a world practice only 2 cases, when serial the murderer of steel of the woman. From my point of view (under descriptions available me), they in the childhood developed as òðàíññåêñóàëêè. At these women - a man's brain. Similar exceptions only emphasize a rule.

And how to be from Elizabeth Batori who has ruined in 16 century nearby 500 person? Or farmer Belli Brinhild by a nickname the Black widow, by means of strychnine and an axe in 1908 sent to forefathers the whole group, men asked in marriage to it? Or its compatriot " the Killing girl " Aileen Wuornos, the route prostitute from the Florida which have killed in 1989 six clients?

I talk about serial sexual sadistic murders. Not each plural murder is serial. The women named by you had others, not sadistic motives to kill. Most likely, mercenary.
Beautiful boy
òðàíññåêñóàëêè - casually remained Russian word which means women with man's brains.
alothrop
The authorities could determine which letters were fake and which ones were real because they employed a graphologist. Serial killers have a tell in their handwriting that allows graphologists to quickly authenticate a letter.









QUOTE(Gatofeo @ Nov 1 2006, 04:12 AM) [snapback]1412296[/snapback]
Oh, I'm quite sure Zodiac was male. At least one of his victims survived and reported a man wearing a hood with a zodiac sign on a vest over his shirt. Definitely male.
I read the book, "The Zodiac Killer" years ago. Or perbaps it was "Zodiac." I no longer have that paperback so I can't cite the author.
It was a fascinating book, though creepy at the same time.
I suspect that Zodiac was imprisoned for a lesser offense, or perhaps left the country. After all, San Francisco is a major port city. He was not heard from for some years, then a message was received again. As I recall, there were no doubts about the later message's authenticity.
Somehow, the authorities could determine which messages were real and which were fake. I suspect that Zodiac used a certain paper, perhaps positioned a stamp in such a way, or employed any other number of devices to indicate to authorities this was a genuine letter.
He would have established such a code early on.
It remains one of the great unsolved crimes. I doubt it will ever be solved; I'm sure Zodiac is long dead. Serial killers often have massive egos that require them to stay in the public eye. It's totally out of character for a serial killer to suddenly stop murdering, then return to a normal life.
Zodiac was not stupid. He very likely crafted that code to be utter nonsense, so the authorities would spend a lot of resources on time on it. It was his idea of a joke, I suppose. Some of his codes were deciphered, but those were not terribly complicated codes.
I believe that his undeciphered code(s) were just red herrings, intended to aggravate the police and actually have no meaning.
Just my opinion, mind you.
I remember being a kid in Spokane, Wash., and being scared of Zodiac some 1,500 miles south in San Francisco. Zodiac was like a boogeyman to us kids in the neighborhood. It was all over the news for months and creeped everyone out.

openmind1963
from all i have heard,and read on zodiac,he was most likely a man named arthur lee allen,a convicted child molester and petty criminal.i can't wait to see the movie,and see how much close the real investigation and the movie are!i heard about the unabomber theory,the way zodiac killed is not like his M.O was.he was too much of a coward to kill like zodiac did!
Test Subject
QUOTE(dog soldier @ Oct 30 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]1410246[/snapback]
It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?


Only a woman woul say that. A woman is a far bigger risk to get caught because one of the male victims could overpower her. Also, men can hide things better. How many women have you ever heard of with a dark past or some deep secret that they wouldn't share with anyone? None, I know.
explorer

Not if she had a gun. How many women have you met in total?!
"...some dark secret they wouldn't share with anyone"
So, TS, how would anyone know about 'em? Yeah huh?

The Zodiac could easily be a woman
because, because, because, becaaaaauuuuuussssssse,
because of the horrible things she does.

Statistically, the Zodiac is probably male, but not necessarily. Could be a woman, while the law went look'n for their man.
But anyhoo, what sign are they? I reckon Sagitarrius.
Like Billy Conolly said, half man, half horse, licence to shh...it in the street.
Test Subject
Not a woman.
Eric Raven The Skeptic
QUOTE(Test Subject @ Feb 25 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]1557805[/snapback]
Not a woman.

How do you know for sure? Was it you? grin2.gif
Gatofeo
Well, those who survived the Zodiac's killing described its voice as being male. Its hairy forearms as being male. Its build as male. Though Zodiac wore a mask, every single survivor described it as a male.
I mean, if it quacks like a duck ... must be a duck, eh?
RedSoxFan13
It`s almost certain that Zodiac was male. However, the freaky thing is that if the guy is still alive, he`ll be sitting in a movie theater this weekend with a crowd of people, and they won`t even know it.
GreenFriend
I live in the area where the Zodiac Killer made his play at infamy. I pass buildings that I know he has made calls from, I've seen mostly of the areas of the crime as Vallejo is not 15 minutes from my house. Though, I am too young to have witnessed the terror and paranoia he caused, my family is well versed in it.

Firstly, my Mother, who was at high school age when the height of Zodiac fever came about. She had a friend whose boyfriend would take her to "the lake" to fool around and be, well, teenagers. The lake is Berryessa, where Zodiac stabbed a couple heinously. As the radio reports came flooding in, fear stuck her, as she knew in her heart it was them, her best friend, who had been murdered. It wasn't, thank God. Lord be with those victims, and even forgive the killer, as he was not sane, by any means, though extraordinarily intelligent.

My Godmother, who had just moved with her two children to my area after her divorce, would not let them sleep in their own bed, as she was frightened of the Zodiac coming in after them as they slept.

As time goes on, people in this area forget that these were very real people killing and dieing for reasons no sane man can fathom. It affected so many, and people in my area are still frightened by his legend.

P.S. We have the highest number of senior's who seem to recall these events with vivid intensity. The movie, Zodiac, came and went extremely quietly in one week's time, and I for one was fearful of going into a theater to watch a film about a man who would do massive amounts of damage to those around him when he might even be in the theater sucking down popcorn and having a laugh...
Atheist God
QUOTE(dog soldier @ Oct 30 2006, 03:31 PM) *
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?


90% sure Zodiac is male, I am also about 80% sure the cryptogram is actually non-sense.

Think about it what better way to end a killing spree then to make a cryptogram which is really not anything at all just to keep guessing, this ensures even after he is dead people are still trying to figure out the mystery and thus made immortal by the history books.
stygeanhue
I live out in those parts and I believe that the zodiac indeed changed up his m.o, just as he said he would. In the east bay we had a string of violent rapes committed just after to zodiac ended contact. Though he said that he would make his killings look like accidents and what not, and never outwardly stated he would rape women, the zodiac had a deep rooted hatred of women. Many of the crimes were similar and the East Bay Rapest, as he was later dubbed, was linked to a know sirial killer in So Cal. I think if we exer find the east area rapest, we'll find the zodiac as well.


http://www.redding.com/redd/nw_local/artic...5034318,00.html
mr.black_fox
it has to be a male because he has a barrel chest and he was smart
Allegory
The zodiac said in his letters that he was tired of killing the way he was,and instead was going to start using bombs.Shortly after this,the Unabomber was born.Ted Kazinski (unabomber) was thought by certain individuals to be the zodiac.He was,after all,a master of math.(so was zodiac) He was using bombs,just like zodiac said he would.Then there is time and placement.Seems as though they were in the same area around the same time.If you google some stuff on the subject,you might see a connection.
GreenFriend
It's also known through investigation that he had military training, could he have worked for the government at one time, and they covered it up to stop any negative reaction about veteran psychosis?
Northawke_rs
QUOTE(Test Subject @ Feb 24 2007, 09:33 PM) *
Only a woman woul say that. A woman is a far bigger risk to get caught because one of the male victims could overpower her. Also, men can hide things better. How many women have you ever heard of with a dark past or some deep secret that they wouldn't share with anyone? None, I know.


Maybe you haven't heard of them because they're good at keeping their dark past or deep secret just that? A secret? grin2.gif

Anyways, I think the Zodiac was definately a male, judging from the form of the attacks and the descriptions given of him. Men are also more likely to engage in the type of games the Zodiac has engaged in, i.e. the letters and the puzzles and such.
Smile Now Cry Later
QUOTE(divine_mockery @ Nov 1 2006, 08:05 PM) *
Hah, especially the Zodiac.
He was always pressing the newspaper people to publish his notes, and he'd
get angry when they ignored him.


There attention seekers.
Cyaneyed
I've been reading about this alot lately, I recommend people check out www.zodiackillerfacts.com , it presents pretty much everything known about the cases and describes theories on the suspects. Weirdly the 'Tarrance' individual mentioned alot early in this thread isn't on here, so I'm going to try and find out more about him. I think Allen was a well placed scapegoat, and especially with his passing of a polygraph test, I'm 99% sure he wasn't the zodiac. The so called 'Manson connections' are also very tenuous and unlikely, mainly they are just booksellers.

Here's a good link to the Unabomber theory http://unazod.com/essay.html

I'm unresolved as yet on it being the same person. While the change in MO is consistent, there is a large gap between activities, which means he went a long time without doing anything, inconsistent with the general motives of a narcissistic serial killer. I think it's quite possible that the Zodiac was either killed or arrested for something else in the 70's (and ceased his activities because he would have become more suspectable, have prints on file and so on). This being said he was known for using wax to conceal his fingerprints, though prints were found at crime scenes (prints that didnt match Allen at any rate).

Anyway it's a huge subject. I'm aware that the FBI released the case files, anyone know if they are available online?
Atheist God
I don't buy the theory that the Unabomber was also the ZK.

What the Zodiac Killer did were crimes of passion as opposed to Ted's bombs which were in his mind were justified and necessary.

Aside from the fact that both were good at math and both killed people the motives were different.

The main difference between these 2 that make me say Ted was not the ZK was the fact he thought he was doing the world a favor and never got any real pleasure out of his victims. The Zodiac as I said above clearly killed his victims for personal gratification.

The inconsistencies are to huge between the styles of killings and the reasons why both were killing.
slipklok
QUOTE (ddiggler @ Dec 23 2006, 09:35 PM) *
I don't know how long ago, but Unsolved Mysteries aired a special promoting the theory that Theodore Kaczynski(the unabomber) was The Zodiac Killer. There was some evidence that Ted signed his high school yearbook with the crosshair inside of a cross(the same insignia on The Zodiac's letters to the police). Ted was a also a genius with cryptographs(just like the letters). I don't know what to think of that theory, but i'll keep hunting...

Huh, I never knew that. original.gif
Allegory
QUOTE (AtheistGod @ Oct 22 2007, 04:02 PM) *
I don't buy the theory that the Unabomber was also the ZK.

What the Zodiac Killer did were crimes of passion as opposed to Ted's bombs which were in his mind were justified and necessary.

Aside from the fact that both were good at math and both killed people the motives were different.

The main difference between these 2 that make me say Ted was not the ZK was the fact he thought he was doing the world a favor and never got any real pleasure out of his victims. The Zodiac as I said above clearly killed his victims for personal gratification.

The inconsistencies are to huge between the styles of killings and the reasons why both were killing.

Well,if you look at it with your POV,Then a killer never evolves.Motive of a young person who has never killed:To see what happens,if they can get away with it.(Maybe,also,being so intelligent,had very few girlfriends,thus making his anger more toward women.and or happy couples)Then,being of logical mind but psychotic at the same time,(a serial killer is ALWAYS portrayed by his nieghbors as"the nicest guy")Decided that his killing of couples was a stupid waste of time.Obviuosly he could get away with it,even taunt the cops cause they cant catch a cold let alone someone so smart.So he decides technology is evil(it is) and that anyone furthering it's cause should be dealt with.That included anyone wanting to cut down thousands of acres of trees,or any kind of "bad" technology.He is,in all sense,the same person.He kept his word about the bombs,and dropped out for awhile.When he reappeared,he kept his word.He blew up what he wanted,and no one could catch him.But his rambling statement about man,technology,and what his ultimate goal was what lead to his undoing.Making the papers print his manafesto,well...you know the rest.
Atheist God
QUOTE
Well,if you look at it with your POV,Then a killer never evolves.Motive of a young person who has never killed:To see what happens,if they can get away with it.(Maybe,also,being so intelligent,had very few girlfriends,thus making his anger more toward women.and or happy couples)Then,being of logical mind but psychotic at the same time,(a serial killer is ALWAYS portrayed by his nieghbors as"the nicest guy")Decided that his killing of couples was a stupid waste of time.Obviuosly he could get away with it,even taunt the cops cause they cant catch a cold let alone someone so smart.


There was a reason he killed couples an not just single people etc.

There is always a method to the madness, there are any number of valid reasons but there is definitely a reason why he targeted couples and not college professors.

QUOTE
Obviuosly he could get away with it,even taunt the cops cause they cant catch a cold let alone someone so smart.So he decides technology is evil(it is) and that anyone furthering it's cause should be dealt with.That included anyone wanting to cut down thousands of acres of trees,or any kind of "bad" technology.He is,in all sense,the same person.He kept his word about the bombs,and dropped out for awhile.When he reappeared,he kept his word.He blew up what he wanted,and no one could catch him.But his rambling statement about man,technology,and what his ultimate goal was what lead to his undoing.Making the papers print his manafesto,well...you know the rest.


Unlike ZK the UB gave clear motive for why he did what he did.

there is nothing aside from the fact that both killed to link them.

The ZK would have never felt what he did was a waste of time because he clearly enjoyed playing his games and inducing mass public fear. Besides the ZK wasn't that sloppy he never got caught and UB was.
Phantom_Stranger
QUOTE (dog soldier @ Oct 31 2006, 09:31 AM) *
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was? What about the unsolved cryptogram that was sent? It could of been a woman. They can kill and not get caught easier. Maybe that is why?

Descriptions show the suspect to be a male.The police had their suspicions but couldnt prove them.I personally beleive he is still alive.
Cursius
Facinated by the story i started searching around trying to find the murder and i came to the conclusion that Arthur Allen was The Zodiac killer based on the facts below:

At the crime scene police found footprints of an 10 inch military boot.
When police first interogated Arthur Allen at his work place he was wearing the same size and style boots at the ones the footprints were.
He also weared a watch from "Zodiac" watch company.
During his time in jail for other crimes no letter from "The Zodiac" was sent to any of the newspapper office like Times Herald or Riverside Enterprise
or "The San Francisco Chronicles", but every time he was out letters were sent to the above recipients.
The cryptic messages that were send were very easy-to-break by the experts like the couple that found and broke the code.
The code was a mix-up by a) Zodiac Alphabet.b)Ancient Greek symbols.c)Navy and sailor's Symbols.
The code was only needed some to read 2-3 book to be made so it was obvius that the killer had no special knowledge,wich once more matches Arhur's life as he did not had never been in a university nor graduated high school.

Arthur could write with both hands, he was an amphidexius, and this explains why the police could not match his writing type with the killers letters.he simply was writing with his right hand when he was the Zodia, but was a left handed during his normal life.
He cleaned trailer in wich he was living 2 days after the police made a small search finding nothing.

Arhur Allen was matching exacly the killers description.
"Heavy set guy around 45 with hairs on the right and left of the head,bold in the middle,round face and beard"
In one of the letter he says
"I LIKE KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS SO MUCH FUN

IT IS MORE FUN THAN KILLING WILD GAME IN THE FORREST BECAUSE MAN IS THE MOST DANGEROUE ANIMAL OF ALL TO KILL SOMETHING GIVES ME THE MOST THRILLING EXPERENCE

IT IS EVEN BETTER THAN GETTING YOUR ROCKS OFF WITH A GIRL

THE BEST PART IS THAE WHEN I DIE I WILL BE REBORN IN PARADICE AND ALL THE I HAVE KILLED WILL BECOME MY SLAVES

I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY NAME BECAUSE YOU WILL TRY TO SLOI DOWN OR STOP MY COLLECTING OF SLAVES FOR MY AFTERLIFE EBEORIETEMETHHPITI"

The phrase "IT IS MORE FUN THAN KILLING WILD GAME IN THE FORREST BECAUSE MAN IS THE MOST DANGEROUE ANIMAL OF ALL TO KILL SOMETHING GIVES ME THE MOST THRILLING EXPERENCE"
remind of a movie called
" The most dangerous game"
wich was the movie that was played on a cinema at i think 1967 on the cinema he was working for a short period of time.The letters matches the hand writing of the one that designed the cinema's posters, and as Arthur was not the one that made the poster we know that Arhur was the one that made the killings,but someone alse was the one that was writing the letters,thos 2 were working together tho.

When the police called Arhur Allen for interogation and investigation as the primary suspect of the case he suddenly died by heart attack and never made it to the court.

Arhur was also a pedophile wich could explain why he mostly killed tennagers and young couples.
In a phone call that was made to a tv presenter's home he sayed to the miad that picked up the phone, after she told him that Melvin Bellin( his name) was not at home, he responded "Today i got my birthday and i have to kill" when indeed Arthurs bd was at that day- i think 18 december-.

Arthur had a friend named Donald Cheney and he once told Cheney that he had read the book 'The Most Dangerous Game"and liked the idea very much. After broaching the idea of hunting humans, Allen is said to have given a hypothetical account of how he would commit a series of murders in lovers' lanes. He allegedly described how he would "use a revolver or pistol with a flashlight attached to same for illumination and an aiming device, [and] would walk up and shoot people... Allen also talked about shooting the tires of a school bus and picking off the 'little darlings' as they came bouncing off the bus", 1 and went on to say that he would send harassing notes to the police. If this was not enough, Allen also allegedly stated that he would call himself "Zodiac."
Note that tha phrase"use a revolver or pistol with a flashlight attached to same for illumination and an aiming device, [and] would walk up and shoot people" was exacly the answer to the question on how the killer could shoot in the nigh only missing 1-2 shots,and then in a cryptic message he, The zodiac", explained how he was doing it.By taping a flashlight onto the gun.

Also the phrase" shooting the tires of a school bus and picking off the 'little darlings' as they came bouncing off the bus" was part of the cryptic message send to San Fransisco Chronicles saying" I Might as well shoot the tires of a school bus, grab a shot gun and start picking the little darling as they come bouncing from the buss" matching Allen's words.

thats from my search, and as it concerns me Arthur Allen was "The Zodiac killer" while his 1967 cinema co-worker new all of this and did not mentioned anything,while he helpde Arthur write and send the letters.
Cursius
QUOTE (soldierspy @ Sep 17 2007, 03:36 AM) *
The zodiac said in his letters that he was tired of killing the way he was,and instead was going to start using bombs.Shortly after this,the Unabomber was born.Ted Kazinski (unabomber) was thought by certain individuals to be the zodiac.He was,after all,a master of math.(so was zodiac) He was using bombs,just like zodiac said he would.Then there is time and placement.Seems as though they were in the same area around the same time.If you google some stuff on the subject,you might see a connection.



he never indeed used bombs. and how come zodiac was expert at maths? anyway the pryptic messages were easy to make.
i my self know the Zodiac Alphabet and i am 16 years old.
If i wanted i could also learn the greek ancient symbols, easy for me as i am and live in greece.
My father was on greek navy so i could also learn the navy symbols.
The cryptic messages were made of those 3 symbol languages.
eagleeye
Zodiac was a thrill killer and Unabomber was a Missionary Killer. Profiles don't match. Very unlikely to be the same person.
desertfae
QUOTE (dog soldier @ Oct 30 2006, 03:31 PM) *
I have been reading up on this unknown killer. I just wanted to know what people thought about him/her. Any thoughts about who it was?

Phillip Arthur Thompson.... on trial now for the murder of Betty Cloer in California.

(edit to take out part of the quote)
slipklok
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0...ac340cipher.png
Check this out:
Cross out all of the letters except the first three in the first row across.
Then on the second row, cross out everything except for the 4th letter, the 7th letter, the 9th letter and the 11th letter.

OOOOOOOOHHHH spooky tongue.gif . So yeah thats pretty much all i got so far.

P.S. i found this cool web tool
340-Cipher web tool
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