I have often asked what good is Astral Projection?

It is something that, with the people that I've talked with, 'spiritual' in nature, thus totally nothing that can be validated or verified as real. It is a Subjective Reality, pure and simple.

So someone asked me to allow them to "prove" to me, it's not Subjective but can be used to "spy" or "find" - basically another version of Remote Viewing.

So I gave them a test; that they would AP (Astral Project) and tell me what a room in my house looks like, obviously the greater the detail, the better. Well they totally failed and I was given all sorts of excuses, even told I 'lied' about the room, changed the pictures that were in a Password Protected Zip file on THEIR computers.

So ok, I've decided to see if anyone that practice AP will be willing to step forward and show that AP has something to seriously offer, other then Subjective Reality. I doubt anyone will, for obvious reasons. It's easier to talk about it then prove it. Subjective Reality is MUCH easier to live in - NO VALIDATION REQUIRED.

I will submit the same test - I will archive in a Password Protected Zip file - for any and all to download. I will give my address and Google Earth Location of my home, for easier 'visualization' and such of where I live.

I will also give generic direction of the area of my house I am talking about. The pictures will be online - and able to be downloaded so there can be no questions or doubts. It will be password protected. The PW will be disclosed for any and all to open the Zip file to see exactly the area in question.

BUT - understand the rules:

You MUST provide specific details.

Generic "square room", or "room with window" or "garage" will not cut it.

You MUST provide specific details.
For example:
"it's a triple car garage, with two posts dividing the three areas for cars to park. There is a chest freezer on the (R/L) wall. Towards the back wall side is a large storage cabinet, etc." - or -
"this is a small room with multi storage shelves on the R-L and Back wall. There is a Freezer -or- water heater in the R-L corner".

The point being the more specific you make the visualization the better. If you want to include a computer drawing of squares and rectangles saying "this" = "that" and such - so much the better.

When I have at least 2+ takers of this test, I will provide the Password Protected Zipped File with the pictures of the room.

Any takers?? - I would so like to see if this really has any serious value other than the pretty much useless Subjective Realm.

J -

This is an excellent idea! I can't wait to see the responses!

have not looked at your house but a 5 foot frames picture or may be a tv and a foam couch or maybe bean bag chair not to sure. red tub.?

Ok, so I take it you are game?

Ok, tell you what - I will take the digital pictures and password/zip them. I will give you specific Google Location and the Directtions to the specific location in the house that I have taken pictures of.

It will be done tomorrow.

BTW - no I have no room in my house that fits that discription.

J -

Ok, here is the test and "rules" so to speak:

Here are the only "clues" that you will get:

Address is - 6700 - 178th PL SW, Lynnwood,WA 98037

Google Earth Long/Lat: 47degree 50' 12.25" N - 122degrees 19' 25.99" W

Edited to add this pic - to assure right house, since I found tonight Google does NOT always post the right house. A friends house is actually 6 houses off on Google.

[attachmentid=29167]

As you go down the flight of stairs and turn to your Right (South), You will find:

A. A wall.
B. A Door to the garage.
c. A hall way with bedroom door on the R & L as you walk down.
D. A Room.
E. A Door to go outside.

You must give specific details like:
Colors of wall, type of door, windows and locations, basic size of room: square, rectangle, enlongated.
If you see a room/garage: Detail if any furniture is seen, like: couch, chairs, sports equipment, entertainment center if any, beds, pictures, tools, work bench, and locations of such.

Generic stuff like "A square room.." - "a double/triple car garage' - a "bedroom with a bed", type stuff will simply be ignored.

There are two files attached to this post:

The Password Zipped file.
E-mail me at jjb-54@comcast.net for the ZIP file. Unable to load it. The file size is only 347KB of 9 Pictures. Remember this file is PASSWORD PROTECTED.
or Try:
http://www.geocities.com/jjbreen.geo/Downl...ap-pictures.zip

A basic Line drawing (jpg), as an example of what could help better explain what you see.
[attachmentid=29165]


The Password will be made known on November 07, 2006 at 7PM Pacific Standard Time.

J -

I like this topic. But one thing:



Well, they can't prove it to YOU, but if I can experience something that can't be shown to others, it IS proven to myself, just not everyone else. But since AP CAN be proven to others, why not go ahead and have these so called APers do it?


You do know that people can crack these files right? And open them without a password...

As far as the proof goes - You are right, it's only proof in their minds. I totally understand that - thus the Subjective Reality. It cannot be proven or validated except in their own minds.

Yes I know it's possible to crack - so I guess it goes to integrity. I can only hope that people will be honest - if they aren't well then they proved nothing actually, except they've learned to do nothing but lie and got/get people to believe their own lies. Which eventually will be found out.

J -

socrates!!!!

HUH??

J -

All I can do is laugh at this one.

Laugh away - and we care why??

J -

This test won't work. A point on google earth or the longitude/latitude of your house won't help at all.

If you want to test AP, the best experiment to use is the one which has been used countless times to prove the existence of AP in the past.

Under controlled conditions, the subject has to project from a secure area in order to read a 5-digit number, while being observed, having been familiarized with the area in which the numbers are.

This has been done succesfully under laboratory conditions, often by skeptical scientists. In fact, I couldn't find a single experiment which wasn't succesful. One such experiment was even televised.

Proof? Many of the experiments are documented in the scientific journal 'Supernature' by respected scientist Lyall Watson.

The experiment I have mentioned works far better than Jjbreens because the subject knows where to project to - it is just a question of projecting and reading the numbers.

Still, a good idea though.

Well the test is still opened.

J -

Socrates is right, your test although a good idea is not feasable and the experiment socrates mentions would work far better.

Well I'd try it but I'm still frightening alittle of Astral Projection of the vibrations and the sinking/floating sensation but I can't get no farthur than 6in- 1ft above my body with out panicing but I'm slowly over comming this it took me 6 months to get this far I figure in another few weeks I'll be ok to go all the way.

But once I master this I'd love to join in this game.

So Astral Projection has been proven in controlled conditions and is excepted as authentic and real?
Please use sources.

Perhaps you misread my post. I did provide a source.

Supernature, by scientist Lyall Watson, is a scientific journal which documents many of the experiments I mentioned which prove the existence of astral travel. Unfortunately the experiments are not widely known, so many people still percieve astral travel as nonsense.

In other words.....it has not been proven and accepted except by those that believe in it?

Although I like this topic, I have to agree. I'm not sure how easy it would be for an APer to find a location they've never been to, even if given directions. Hell, it'd be hard even if I could travel in my physical body at fast speeds....

Maybe someone can setup a live video feed with a webcam, and do a test? XD....



Not all scientists agree on things, and some are seriously biased against this type of phenomena, so basing your own opinion on wether the fact it's accepted by others or not, is not a good way to go about it.

WOW! I guess that's it?? Two people say, "no" - so it's dead..

Well then do I cancel the test?

This is actually kind of sad.

J -

There has to be another way we can do this online... It would be cool. And hell, me and Socrates were suppose to setup a "test" later on in December.

That's not remotely what I said. For the record, Lyall Watson is a skeptical scientist and the results of the experiments surprised him just as they would surprise any skeptic. The experiments were controlled under laboratory conditions by registered scientists - what more do you want? Read the journal yourself. It proves that AP is a real phenomena. It seems to me that even though proof exists, you refuse to see it.

Ok, well the experiment is still opened and will be till 11/07/2006.

I will expand the scope to AP and RV'ing. Just post results.

J -

I think theres a danger in AP where one spirit might not be able to come back to its body or another spirit will occupy it. Those who wished to do the test must be aware of this possibility and relieve Jbreen of all spiritual ramifications. Beware of the hermit crab.

Jbreens room is dark. The wall is painted like a universe, you see stars, sun and galaxies.
He has some gadget that looks like a lava lamp and a sphere that emits lightning inside.
He has a disco ball, brand vertigo. A thermal camera beside the bed within arms reach.

Outside of the house is decorated with.... some halloween stuff.

His room is located to the right. the house has 3 bedroom and 1 & 1/2 bath. It has an automatic water sprinklers.

Hey 3RRA -

You are one of the few that I have seen actually be concerned about the risk factor. I presented them over the years and was finally told where I could go. So I finally gave up. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about - that their almighty "shields" will protect them and their bodies from everything and anything - (except those that don't believe in these shields - it's not apart of their reality - then what!!?? ) Just because it's one person's Subjective Reality - does not mean it's another persons Subjective or Objective Reality. If it's not real to them - why do we think it will stop them? It won't..

As for the posts about the "ROOM" - ok, here is the where IF the guess is wrong off or wrong by 25% or greater - I'll simply say a generic "NO... the post is not accurate" I will not tell how and/or where - to avoid 'process of illimination.

... SO

3RRA - "No, your answer to the test is not accurate."

J -

darn it i omitted cul de sac.

Awww, I was hoping he was right.. Oh well.

Hey you can have as many tries as you wish till Nov. 7th.

J -

And what the hell does that mean in the first place? O_o

Not sure what you are asking, my friend.

J -

I'm asking what "darn it i omitted cul de sac." means.

Jjbreen I'm working on your AP test. I was AP for awhile now but didn't realize what it was.. I thought it was strange dreams that everyone had. After joining here I read the techniques Socrates provided and it helped me to control them.

Awesome, goodluck to you, man. You know how cool it would be if you proved AP was real? =D

Jjbreens house is located at the end of the street. cul de sac.

The house has 4 bedroom. 3 bedroom on the second floor and 1 bedroom on the ground floor.
it has 2 and 1/2 baths. 2 car garage. A brinks sticker. The wall is white. The house is all white. It has plants inside. House has internet. 2 computers 2 laptops. Has an aquarium with goldfish.

I believe there is a limit to the range a low experienced AP'er. Which most are from what i have herd. They can travel far but the risks are very high.

I tire of saying this, but AP has already been proven real. I have provided references to scientific journals countless times... People don't realize that AP is now a phenomena proven to exist.

I know you have, but I'm just talking about here and now. We'd kinda "experience it first hand" in a sense.


EDIT: What were the references again? I just googled "Astral Projection Proven" and got nothing.

Ok -

The source that Soc provided is:
Supernature, Lyall Watson

If you google it you will only get the means by which to get Supernature and a brief bio of Lyall Watson.

Now based on the below - I find this rather curious:



So for AP to be "valid", it has to be:
"controlled conditions" - what ever that means?
Project from a 'secure area' - again what ever that means?
The AP'r has to be familiar with the area.
To read numbers.

Ok - why only5 number?? Why not 6? Plus, why not something more detailed? Like re-arange the furniture and have them note the change?

See the thing with what you sited - the numbers doesn't prove AP - it only proves they could find out the numbers. There easily could of been some other Psi sense at play and not AP. So I have to admit I find this only makes me question it even more..

So ok, since this AP test is slowly being told - "cannot be done", 'cannot work this way', basically being debunked and/or being shown just how limitied it is, by people supposedly 'in the know' - Basically it's not very useful at all, unless under specific prescribed conditions and you need to know 5 numbers.

So the test is now a tad bit broader to include: RV - AP - or what ever means, as long as it is Psi Abiliites related to do the test.

J -

PS - Do I wait for next Wed, or do we end the test sooner??

Good question. They haven't only used numbers - they've also used random objects and shapes.

Regarding supernature - perhaps you should buy it instead of googling it??

Ok, I found your place but i'm not going into detail... I want to see if anyone else can do this... I'll point out a few things in the room that stood out to me.... there's a bathroom in the room. Seems like a reckroom/relaxing area. I think there might of been a pool table? And I know there was a piano. There was also something else I never seen in years.. you have an old fashioned tv dinner tray in the room. I remember we had one of those when I was a kid.

I am actually going to go to the library and see if I can find this -

J -

Ok -

Now I have no validation of this and it may be nothing more than someone(s) simply trying to discredit the test.

It is rumored to me that someone might have cracked the ZIP file. As I am unsure, as NO valid proof has been given to me: IE: show me a picture from the ZIP file.

The test is still opened and I'm treating it as RUMOR to just try to screw up the test. If someone can provide me a copy of the picture - great, then the test will be voided.

Let the test continue - I have decided to move the close of this specific test till this Sunday at 6:00PM - that should be plenty of time for those who wish to get their try posted, done and posted.

J -

Ok -

These are the only two people willing to try the test:



and ...



So is there anyone else that is going to give it a shot??

I've changed the date to Sunday the 5th - but will likely move it up sooner if there are no other takers.

So let me know.

J -

Since the place is far from my reach I'm going to AP the file itself since it is now infront of me.

I'm still trying to project to it.

Glad to see UM back up and running.

If anyone else beside the two so far want to give it a 'shot' - go for it. I have yet to have anyone to validate that the ZIP has been cracked. So I guess that was nothing more than a poor and sad attempt to discredit the test.

I would like the two if they could do a line art drawing of what they see. Like the one of the master bedroom. Remember it can just be sqr and rectangles with initials or words telling us what is what.

Also if the two could attempt to be as specific as they possibly can be - I am curious as to "see" what they "see". Colors, textures and such. But understand if that is too much.

I mean if it's a wall - it's not hard to draw a wall and it's color.

Thanks again - There will be other tests after this one that will be limited to 2-3 periods only.

This test will end on Sunday.

J -

Hi All,

Just wanted to give some insight on this test and want to share with you guys my opinion.

Thru my many years of OBE's I have come to the conclusion that most of the time we are Out of our body we really do not have allot of control on where we go. This is at least my opinion, let me explain.

Most of the time I am out and gone to either a different plane of existence or places I never been to. Your experiments I assure you that most of us who Astral travel have tried before, not on a Forum, but on our own. I have only been able to do what you ask once, about 10 years ago and it was to my Boy -friend (at the time) parents house in Florida. He was on Vacation visiting them and I wanted to try and experiment this with him. I was so amazed that I actually saw him in bed. I was able to give him full descriptions of the place and what he was wearing and colors and so forth. He was amazed. However, all the other times I personally have failed, I either end up in houses I have never been too or places I have never been to, and when I try to validate the test I am wrong. What I am trying to say is that our control at least for me is very limited.

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but it is true at least in my case. The truth is that the only proof itself is to actually do it.

Sincerely,

Lorena

Welcome Lorena, you sound like an experienced projector. You're absolutely right - it's very difficult to get to the place you want to go in the astral plane.

I like the atitude of Ghostboy and 3rd -

I find it funny that the ones that are actually bring serious doubts and questions to this having any Objectivity at all - are actually making this more so Subjective in reality than I already think that it is.

But here is a "clue" - One of the two is actually better than 40% accurate in their post! But I will not tell you which one till Sunday. (*This also tells you it isn't a wall... )

J -

In 24 hours the results will be made known.

I will easily take it that only two have chosen?

Anyone making any claims after the test will simply be laughed at and ignored, so please do not even do that to the people on this thread. Unless you wish to be laughed at - then I guess go for it!

J -

Ok - The test is officially CLOSED: No 'submissions" or "after the fact" claims can be accept or taken as valid. After the fact, "I knew this...." doesn't cut it. If you 'knew this', then you had ample time to say so.

The password to the ZIP FILE IS:

AstralProjectionPassWord-A1b2C3d4E5f6G7h8I9j0

Copy and paste the above line in full w/NO space or "return" at the end.

3rd rock resident alien – Submission:

End of the Cul de sac -
Yes:
But that is clearly seen on Google Earth. So I cannot give that to you.
4 Bedrooms –
No, It has 5 bedrooms
There are 4 on the main floor and one in the lower level of the house. It’s a split level home.
2 Car garage –
Yes.
But Google Earth shows a double car parking and roof line. So it's hard to give this one to you - the visual is there on Google.

Wall color is ‘sand’ – so I won’t say “yes” but I won’t say “no” either.

No house color is Sand Stone and Brown.

Plants: Only in one corner of the upstairs living room and not that many.

No aquarium at all, thus no gold fish.

Now, ghostboy83 submission:


“Bathroom in the room”:
No:
But just outside the door to the R facing out. It’s a wash-room with toilet and sink only. But not “in” the room.
“Seems like a reckroom/relaxing area”:
Yes:
This is exactly what it is.
“might have been a pool table”
Yes:
No might – there is and it’s covered with a printed sheet.
“There was a piano”
Yes, an upright piano is in the room.
“old fashion TV dinner tray”
Yes, there is between two recliners.

You presented 4 items correctly – the bathroom, I am not sure how to present as yes and no, since it’s just off the family room and not in it. It’s in the hallway, right next to the family-room.

Ghostboy, I have to say, WELL DONE, my friend – very well done!

Well done - I would say that with Ghostboys observations he validated this test.

J -

Here are the pictures:
(not all the pic's are shown - so much space allowed for attachements only allowed to validate Ghostboys, Piano, Pool and TV tray and outline of family room. All digital pictures are in the ZIP file.

Family Room:
[attachmentid=29225]
[attachmentid=29221]
[attachmentid=29223]

I am going to submit another test this evening: See next post.