RIGHT

PUT YOUR POINTS HERE.AND PUT YOUR POINTS HERE TO SHOOT THE OTHER POINTS OUT OF THE WATER...


FOR EXAMPLE

GOD IS REAL..BECAUSE MILLIONS BELIEVE IN HIM

AGAINST

BUT WHO HAS SEEN HIM

BUT MILLIONS BELEIVE IN HIM

AGAINST

BUT MILLIONS BELIEVE IN ALIENS

THIS SUBJECT IS A BIT LIKE ALIENS..I.E. GIVE ME PROVE...AN ALIENS HEAD ON A SILVER PLATTER

WELL GIVE ME PROVE THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD

You can't equate someone's spiritual faith and beliefs with the mundane, highly speculative opinions and thoughts of those who argue for the 'reality' of aliens, there's just no comparison. The subject itself is volatile enough without belittling it by suggesting that there are similarities in the reasoning process. Until the time comes when beliefs in aliens attains 'spiritual' status, there really wouldn't be a point in pursuing this discussion. By the way, "God" is real to hundreds of millions of people, depending on which religion you subscribe to, makes the million or so who believe in aliens seem rather paltry, doesn't it?

so did you just prove god is real...or did i miss something lol

He was just saying that more people believe in god than UFOs. But UFos are a religion to some people. Rememer those suicides? I found an intersting link about UFO sprituality as well. So yes it does exist, it just doesnt have as big a fan club as the bible.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/ufo/ufo1.html

Well, if aliens aren't good enough for you...

Millions of people once believed in Thor, Zues, and thousands of other gods that were reveared for centuries. The existance of these beings was a very fundamental part of the cultures at a time, and was just as 'spiritual' (if not more) than the believe in our modern god.

If anything, given that the cultures who believed in these gods lacked the scientific knowledge to explain the world around them (why it rained...what caused thunder...etc), then they had a great deal more reason to believe in gods than we do.

In this day and age, if I were to say I worshipped Thor, I'd probably be taken as a lunatic...however, if I said I worshipped god, then I'd just be another sheep in the flock

Why are we able to so happily dismiss the beliefs of gods that came before, while saying ours is the true, given that god has no more evidence behind his existance than any of the gods from ancient cultures?

I tend to agree with Seraphina and the answers before.

God is religious belief that somehow escape logical thinking.
Aliens is a logical belief that somehow escape religious faith (except some particular cases).

And basically God has been a tool to explain what knowledge couldn't explain at times. It's been used as a tool also to control the people in order to prevent to question the authority of the ones in power (remember the kings were said to have been made kings by God). God's name has been used for holy crusades in the past too. Basically God has always been a good tool for propaganda, because when you think of it there's no place in the bible refering to pre-emptive strike

When you think is the best example of a salesguy pitch. They sold something to the people that they never saw, was never proven to exist and people are still buying it 2000 years later... Quite amazing isn't it ?

TheLight

i agree with you all on this thread.... anyways, why can we not have God AND aliens.....what if "angels" are actually aliens?

as in God created aliens aswell as man


as for jesus being the son of God...there is no proof....just down to what you believe

If I was ever forced to bet my house on which is more likely to be true (im my opinion) it sure as hell (exuse the punt) would`nt be the 1 that is all based on so much impossiblity and fantasy ,and i`m not talkin bout alians.

Lets face it,God,not only did he create himself ,he then threw a few planets together in less than a week,and thats just the begining of such a far fetched, unbelivable(to a non beliver),impossible ,most edited, magical ,most confusing and most missunderstood ,upsetting,controversial,unexplained and totally based around no logic what so ever,yet most powerful ,influenced and dangerous myth about something that even after all this time does`nt have an ounce of solid evidence to support any part of such a crazy idea.

What is it that i`m missing, how can so many people and over such a long period of time,people who are very intelligent,people who are very ordinary,people who are very dence ,rich people,important people,poor people,sick people,people without a shred of humanity or decency or regards towards any living thing can all say that even today, in such a modern,scientific age, a one that we have been able to design and build machines,vehicles and other gadgets to help us get the answers to the questions that consern the human race,people who dedicate their whole life probing for evidence about the unknown,and even though none has been found to back any of the many varied versions of such a bizare theory,with their hand on heart(or weapon for those without hearts) and say without any shame or embarrassment that they belive that such a theory is not only possible but is also the truth.

So lets say for arguments sake that he/she did exist and that the Bible contained a pretty accurate and modest account of his going on`s.I would imagine that he would have needed to prove his powers very powerfully and convincenly to be able to generate so much respect,fear,love and devotion from the joe public to the extent where people will sacrifice themselves and others because they belived that it was what God wanted from them which sounds simular to the way sadam and hitler etc. used to there evil advantage,yet the only way they could respect from anyone was to terrify them so i`d guess you would gain alot of respect once you start destroying parts of the world with no huge armys,infact didnt even need to expose himself in the process.and since he is watching over all of us,all the time it would be a bit uncomfortable knowing at any time you could be turned into stone or salt,or worse.So I dont think I would find it to be a very good thing to have someone like that around.


But is he a lot more chilled and laid back these days and has realised that drowning everyone in a flood doesnt get the same laughs as it used to,so has decided to put his miricles into good use,instead now saving us from such evil undeserved acts of violance,but if thats what he`s doing,where are these miricles,have I been watching the wrong news channels,is the evil in the world today not that bad and should`nt bother us when the odd defencless child gets rapped,abused,torcherd and murdered,is the odd bomb thats thrown or airoplane thats used to create mass murder and suffering, something we make to much fuss over,its only God having a small relaps of his earlier days.Lets face it,it could be worse,he could destroy the world tomorrow if he fancied it.after all,we`re
all his creation and its only fair he has the last word.


And as for do aliens really exist...Yes coz i remember years ago on the news or something i saw a real one that got left behing here by accident when his family were in a hurry to get home, he was a funny ,kind of cute little dude who picked up on our language in no time,he seemed to have a nasty infection on his middle finger, but otherwise full bill of health, for a while anyway....cant remember his full name , but his friends just called him E.T ...i think they were his initials or something.

Of course aliens exist,,,even without all the sightings and rumours most of which (unlike the ones about Christ) are very belivable,It would be a bit foolish of us to think that we are the only living creatures in the whole of the universe.
Yikes !!! have I just typed all that.....thats the last time im getting involved.

edited to make it a little easier to read...

In honor of Aslan...........

Don't you ever take a breath? That was the most confusing, difficult post to get through. In fact? I'm not sure I did

Wow 'Any Fit' there were a lot of interesting points you brought up.
There is nothing that tells us there is definite proof of God or Alien. It's just what you, yourself have to choose to see and believe.
In Turkey un-top of one of the highest mountains, there is a big boat that sometimes shows due to the wind storms in the area. - It is said to possibly be the Ark. Due to all the terrorists in that area it is very hard to get to the mountain but satellite shows it being there. There are people who have been through horrible times and at their darkest moment, a miracle has happened. You can't tell someone who has gone through this that it doesn't exists.
Of course we have all heard of Roswell, and a good majority thinks it was covered up. Some of us have had our own experiences. You can't tell someone who has seen it that it doesn't exists.
On a different note I had a friend that studied the bible all throughout his childhood/teenager years and this is what he feels:
When God created Adam and Eve, some of his Angels were disgusted because they also wanted to be human. He in-turn changed them to Aliens, to be there for us incase God wasn't. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit he took out half of a gland out of the back of Adam and Eve's head so that they could no longer talk to God telepathically. (For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the gland.) My friend feels that God now feels bad about this due to the way morally the world has become. The Aliens are doing his work and creating a human that has the whole gland.
So there are some that feel that one or the other or even both exists and are working with each other.
Another friend of mine had a lot of bad stuff happen to her when she was young. She believes that this was done for a reason. She thought the same as other's have posted on "How can there be a God that would let something this terrible happen to an innocent child." Now since she has grown up she understands a little better why these things happen and has become a better person because of it. Is it right? NO way in hell. Do you think she would know how to sympathize with others without being through hard times if she hadn't gone through this? Who knows. But she thinks that she would of probably been a cut-throat kind of person. You never know what someone else is going through without walking in their shoes.
-Klamath

.... ....

Dare I ask what bizare evidence your friend found in the bible to give birth to this extremely outlandish theory?

At the time that the Bible was writtin did`nt they also claim that the world was flat , so much for that little theory...

Firstly, Nancy, I agree with you, after reading Any Fit Monkey’s post, my brain feels like it needs a long relaxing bath, lol! Then just as it’s recovering… I’m told that God changed some of his angels into aliens, and that these aliens are now trying to fulfil what God was first not able too!

What it all comes down to is belief. Either you believe in God or you don’t. You believe in aliens or you don’t. Either subject can be expanded on, but that’s the bare facts. You can gain belief, through different experiences or research. But it still only comes down to belief!

And in your second post Any Fit Monkey, you stated:

“At the time that the Bible was written didn’t they also claim that the world was flat, so much for that little theory...”

Are you saying that the bible claims the world to be flat? Because in the Book of Isaiah, he stated, “above the circle of the earth!” meaning he knew it was round… But like your other post, I find you points a little vague, no offence, just that it’s hard to work out your meaning for the post! And I’ve been to Ephesus in Turkey, this city was around during the time the bible was written, and one of the main statues has a image of one of their gods, with his foot on earth, a round earth!

I agree with Seraphina and any_fit_monkey on this one.

I would say Aliens do exist on other planets... whether or not they are visiting us is another discussion all together...

if i'm correct, it's the Old Testiment that states the world was flat... which brings me to this question... why was there a revised version?!? to correct all the statements that prove it's bogus? Also, the whole Noah's Ark thing, i don't understand how people can believe that this guy went to every corner of the earth and brought back 2 of every type of animal to this boat?!? Seems a little crazy to me!

A friend once told me a little story, he was discussing God with a friend at college and he asked her a question.


Do you really think that the God of the Old Testament Would, after all that time, suddenly changes his mind?
If there is a God then do you think that a God of hell,fire and damnation would suddenly think, oh this is'nt working I think i'll send my son down (jesus is god, god is jesus.....eh?) and spread peace around the land, COME ON, God does'nt change his mind, nooooo way!!!

Noah's ark. I read something that might make you rethink it, read below.

Let's go back to the dynosaurs. What is believed to have caused their extinction was a huge meteor that hit the earth ground and created something similar to what we describe as a nuclear winter. In other words small particles of dust are sent high in the atmosphere where it takes them 12 to 18 months to come down because of the physical conditions in the high atmosphere. It's called nuclear winter because it prevents most of the sun light to reach the earth, resulting in steep cooling down.

Now what happends if the meteor hits the ocean instead of the ground ? Water vapor is projected in the high atmosphere instead of dust particles. Vapor has different properties and it takes less time to come back under the form of rain. How much time ? Scientists say it'll take 40 days... and nights.

40 days and nights, does that ring a bell ? That's the duration of the flood described in the bible when Noah's ark was made.

Ok, I think the story of Noah as described in the bible is a bit exagerated (two animals of each species) but I think that the flood might have really happened. And so there could be some truth in Noah's story.

That doesn't mean everything is right about God, but you can still read the bible from an historian point of view to detect geological events of the past. Mostly the explanation of past events were attributed to God because the people of this time didn't know how to explain them by other means.

TheLight

sure a flood could have happened, and sure a meteor may have caused it, but...

if a meteor was to hit the ocean, wouldnt there be floods almost immediately? and if it takes 40 days for the vapors to fall, then wouldn't that be the height of the flood, and wouldnt the flood last much much longer then 40 days?

and if that was the case, then it would be a natural occurance, not any kind of a religious one.

i know your not arguing with me, and dont take my reply as the start of one... just rasing a few questions.

Nethius,

you're right. A huge tsunami would be generated in the ocean were the meteor would land. So you may or may be not subject to the tsunami depending where on earth you are compared to the point of impact.

I agree that the flood, if it took place under these conditions, was a natural event. It was just explained by the mean of the God by the people living in that period of time because they couldn't explain it scientifically.

I'm not taking position on whether or not the flood happened and what caused it. I'm just pointing out a strange coincidence between scientifical data (the time for water to re-enter at sea level) with an ancient event which we don't know if it's real or imaginary. It's just a potential lead of explanation. And generally when it stops raining the flooding goes away progressively so that might be described as the end of the flood.

TheLight

Well obviously Noah's story must have happened after the dynosaurs extinction.

I mean I don't know if you misunderstood my post. I was saying the end of the dynosaurs must have been due to a meteor hitting the GROUND. While in the Noah case it could be a meteor in the SEA. These are 2 separate and independant events.

And again I'm not saying that it's the way it happened, I'm just trying to correlate current scientific knowledge with past history/myths.

Some scientific research has gone into this theory, as to how 2 of every kind of animals could create the vastness of animals on our world today... oh, with some kinds of animals it was 7, not just 2, as the old stories say, the bible states 2 of the unclean, and 7 of the domesticated.
Anyhow… They believe that the variety of animals could have come down to very few species. All according to their kind, as the bible says, (don’t get me wrong, I’m not bible bashing, I was interested in this question myself, and researched it a long time ago, when I was studying in Zoology, and this question was actually asked).
Also they believed he didn’t have to travel far, because all the continents were at that time joined together! The world was basically flat, no huge towering mountains (Ararat was at the time the highest) and vast lakes. The bible states that it had never rained before the flood occurred! That everything was watered by the morning mist. And that the whole world was covered in a watery canopy, which made the planet the same ambient temperature. This was emptied when the flood began, causing God, to have to shift continents, and raise mountains, and create huge lakes to accumulate all the extra water He had unleashed! And… if God had asked for Noah to build this ark (which states took 120 years to accomplish, they apparently lived much longer lives, being closer to perfection), so having 120 years, and Gods guidance, they state anything is possible.

I will try and locate where I found this information, it was provided by some religious organization, to prove Noah’s Ark actually happened. You will have to bare with me, because this was from a long time ago, and you might just have to put up with what I remember, lol.

When your life is in crisis, and you search your soul for a solution, pick a UFO and pray to it........

Or try God and see if there is a difference.....

Either way, praying is useless.

many religions ...well known ones and less well known ones have a flood myth...so which is the right one?

Two of any animal is not enough for the species to survive, so the basic Ark story is (at best) mere symbolism. However, I do think that some type of flood probably occurred, but that it was more of a localised event (maybe the creation of the Black Sea when the Mediterranean came "flooding" over the top of the Bosphorus, or even the Atlantic entering the Mediterranean Basin). This would have happened LONG before Noah and his Ark were supposedly in existence (as estimated from the Bible).

To be honest, I believe that there could be a lot of truth in the Bible, but that it is based on major events that happened over an incomprehensible timespan (to the people of the day). Take Genesis as an example. I certainly don't believe that the Earth was created in six days, but I am prepared to believe that this is a timespan that seemed "comfortable" to those people who existed a couple of thousand years ago. Let's face it, they were probably not able to comprehend (or even accept) timescales of billions of years.

codiac/codiac

First of all i dont mean to offend anyone by this post. Everyone has a right to an
opinion and this is mine (at the moment anyway;))))). Along that lines - Someones
opinion of someone else might not be that great, and i can also understand that. I hope u people can too:-). So, no hard feelings if you recognize yourself in following lines:).

Ok... where to start...

Hello, I’m new to this forum. I’m from Croatia (Europe) (so sorry if my english seems bad). I’ve been reading through your forum for some time now, and today i decided to join in on the fun:))) So, here it goes:

"GOD" is man-made projection of some "supernatural explanation" to take "blame"
for all the things Us, stupid little people, can’t explain... Nothing more - nothing less.
Even today – it’s the only purpose it serves.
"God" is therefore tool of religion, and religion is tool for people to keep other people
"in line" - for various reasons (profit, just plain old obedience, etc...).

Christian church of today is (as are most other religious institutions) a successful bussines for
Making money and spreading carefully thought-out ideology for prolonging its "life". Nothing more
- nothing less :-) . In the past, church used brutal force for this purpose (and has hundreds
thousands of deaths to show for it), but now it uses media and various propaganda. Still, dont get
me wrong - 10 commandments and idea of people being good to people is just great, and I'm all
for that. But the fact is - church KNEW people could NEVER actually live by its rules. Therefore
church presented itself as our link to "god" and "salvation". NOBODY lives by its preachings (just
ask priests driving around in luxury cars and pedophile cardinals). But hey, there's cure for that
too - just go to church on sundays, cast that ole spell "confess", say couple od "hail marys" and
be on your way:)))))). Of course don’t forget to put a "little something" in the collection box. Insuring "eternal life" costs a lot of money you know! Hahahaa! Oh
man! What a deal! I'm sold! Hehehe:)))))
I dont know about you, but I DON'T NEED some guy in black robes & white collar to tell me what
is right and what is wrong. After all, he too is nothing more than just HUMAN. If you're confused
whether stealing and/or killing is wrong - just seek professional help and blame your parents for
doing such a poor job of raising you!

And have you ever wondered why was church so very much against man landing on the moon,
and space exploration in general? - Coz they were SCARED! If something actually was found
"out there" - there was a chance that it would change the way people percieve the world around
them. Final result : "jesusware" would simpy go out of fashion )))). Later, seeing they can’t stop
"progress", church representatives simply stated something like: "Ok, if god created one earth, he
might have created more of the same":) Hahahahaa:)
Still, whether you realize it or not - ALL religions with time lose their followers, and please don't
think that current ones will be here forever. For all we know, 2 - 3 hundred years from now people
might be worshiping statues of Mickey Mouse, and Disneyland will be the next Jerusalem or
something. That's part of the reason for "new" and "old" testament - some things were simply
TOO stupid to keep people believing in them. One day some "brand-new-mega-cool" testament
might come out (or something like that) - saying that god is flying around in silver saucer and
"watching over us" - it really donesnt matter what “we” say - as long it's selling "the product":))))))
So, bottom line is: really, there’s no end to human stupidity, gullibility & plain laziness
when it comes to using their brain. Please dont forget that... :-D

The reason for “religion & various god versions” popularity and its global “success” is quite
simple:

People are simply afraid that this short amount of time that they have on this planet might just be
in fact - ALL the time that they have. So, most people need that something “extra” to cling to, becouse they are all too much aware how fragile their physical egsistence is. This also comes
to surface in times of some horrible personal loss or tragedy. People simply need something else
to turn to when there is “no other hope”.... and that’s that...

I’m not saying that faith and belief are always wrong... Sometimes they help you struggle with
problems in your life... and thats all great... but TRUTH lies somewhere else...

Earth was created like all the other planets... From various space gasses that were thrusted
together by gravitation so that they formed hard matter. Or something like that – it’s been quite
some time since i saw a documentary on the subject, so i dont remeber all the details. The point
is: IT WASNT GOD WITH HIS MAGIC WAND! At least i think so! End of story.

Modern science still cant explain a lot of things happening in this world... Perhaps some
powerful elite Interest groups benefit from that. Perhaps they even go so far that they act
to prevent certain breakthroughs from happening - Like cures for aids and cancer, clean
energy sources, etc... they could be also covering up traces of alien visitors... As long as
fundamental questions remain unanswered – “allmighty” version of our god will be here - “among
us”. :-)

I personaly find it sooooo much easier to believe in “little green/gray men” than in some bearded
old man pulling the strings from heaven. But thats just me. ;-P
If god does egsist – then why the hell doesn’t he show himself to make this planet a better
place?! Obviously he doesn’t give a rats ass about us – or he isn’t there:))))) I’m so sick of those
silly explanations: but god is love, god is everywhere, god is a flower, a bird, a big coconut...
Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Guess what?!?! Then so are the aliens! ))))))))))
Oh i get it – he’s just testing us! So we must be his guinea pigs! Thats great:)
One other thing i don’t understand – if god is so poweful and allknowing and great and handsome
and has a bunch of cool superpowers – how come he didnt predict us becoming so screwed up?
I guess he’s not that smart after all. ))))))))))

And as for the Noah and him transporting 430583208500345093480598345 pairs of all known
species on eart in his boat – my opinion is that only not-so-intelligent person would believe in such a SILLY idea! I mean really.... And again - thats what i think...

Same goes for Adam and Eve boinking eachother to death to spawn all us... Haha.

I also think that this dominant “human-centered” religion is part of the problem why our planet
is in such a mess... Pollution, overpopulation, dying out of more and more species... all that
comes from people focusing too much on their species, their "sins", and their problems... We are
not alone... not on this planet, and also not in this universe... and i just simply can't begin to imagine why would someone would think otherwise - and THAT’S THE TRUTH - for me anyway. So; Peace, love, and kisses to all... Sorry for
typing so much...


P.S.
I do believe in some force that put all this and our universe in motion... An energy form of some
kind that connects and runs through us all.... But i doubt that this force is intelligent, allmighty and
allknowing... But then again – that’s just me:))))))
And i'm sorry if my own views collide with yours... Opinions come from life and
experiences... And if yours differ from mine - so be it... I'm not trying to convince
anyone of anything... I just typed some of my thoughts... 1000 people believe in 1000 different things... I leave them be and expect the same:)


And as for the devil – its just bad bad bad people doing bad things.... Although some individuals do come pretty
close: http://www.truefacts.co.uk/articles/dubya.html ))))))



Later,

Codiac...

Religion is the opiat for the masses, i read that somewhere.